Set: Affliction (beast of darkness and elemental discharge)

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Sat, 2007-05-19 19:14
munckee
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Hey all this new set im workin on is gonna be about 310 cards or so and ive got some new mechanics i wanna share and see what you all think

MUTATE - reserved for rares because i can see it easily becoming overpowered.

CONTAMINATED - for creatures only.

LEGENDARY SORCERY/ INSTANT - gonna need to do some playtesting to find a good balance for these

ps. hopefully i did these images right Stick out your tongue

new cards at bottom

Sun, 2007-05-20 01:58
Theshawnwilsonp...

None of your cards are showing up...

Sun, 2007-05-20 03:09
Pichoro
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Sun, 2007-05-20 03:38
Theshawnwilsonp...

They just little white boxes with an x in the middle. When I look at other peoples posted cards I can see them. I dunno, if it's just me then its really not a big deal. I thought they might have been showing up like that for everyone...

Sun, 2007-05-20 04:43
RoaTheEternal
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I don't even see that! I'm getting absolutely nothing, image wise.

Edit: Switching to an IE tab, I see the broken images (I use firefox normally)

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Sun, 2007-05-20 04:49
Pichoro
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Hmm. When I refresh, they turn to white boxes with red X's. Then I right-click on them and choose "Show Picture" and they pop up again.


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Sun, 2007-05-20 06:13
Theshawnwilsonp...

I try clicking on show picture and refresh and they still white boxes with red x. Since I was kinda messed up about the fact you could see them and I couldnt I even tried to go the the webpage that they are posted on. I get the webpage not found dealy... So um I dunno...

Sun, 2007-05-20 16:32
munckee
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o shoot sorry the person i share photobucket with erased em >.< hehe ill put em back up and tell her not to erase em this time!

Sun, 2007-05-20 16:35
munckee
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ok the pics should be working now Big smile

Mon, 2007-05-21 01:03
BunnieRein
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Hellscreamer:
A bit too good, it's pretty easy to plop cards in the graveyard, it would be well enough without the great card advantage it provides (return a creature, kill a creature, be a creature). I would recommend dropping the return a creature part.

Contaminated Angel:
Unflavorful for white, normally. Also, it's pretty powerful as it stands (think, white weenie).

Mutating Whelp: / Mutate in general:
This raises an alarm. Vintage: 4x of these and a wheel of fortune in deck = 5x wheel of fortune.
Other mutate cards will most likely share the same issues.

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Mon, 2007-05-21 01:21
Theshawnwilsonp...

Well I actually like these cards. The planar disruption has me shaken up.

Mon, 2007-05-21 02:06
munckee
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thanks for the comments guys

i think though that as of now the angel is pretty balanced... first turn it can attack it is a 4/4, then attacks as a 3/3, then 2/2, the 1/1. All the while, five -1/-1 counters are put on it to deal you a total of 10 damage. IF all your attacks get through then your opponent will take 10 damage as well. That is only IF all your attacks get through. I agree it is unflavorful so any ideas would be helpful Big smile

as for mutate: ya its way overpowered, maybe making an actual mutate cost somewhat like a kicker cost that you have to pay when you play the spell would balance it out.

and thanks for the thoughts on hellscreamer ill fix it Big smile

Mon, 2007-05-21 04:08
RoaTheEternal
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Deja Vu seems really complicated for a keyword ability. I have trouble seeing more than a few creatures with that ability.

Other than that, I feel the same way as the others on the other abilities.

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Mon, 2007-05-21 04:15
munckee
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i appreciate the comments but if your gonna tell me they arent cool or they are too complicated, leave some advice on how i can fix them please

Mon, 2007-05-21 04:24
Pichoro
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I interpret his comment as follows. Consider de-keywording the ability. That doesn't mean don't use the ability, but ask yourself if it really needs keyworded, due to its complexity. Not that complex abilities can't be keyworded (Suspend), but are you really gonna use this complicated ability enough to keyword it? Is it really worthwhile?


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Mon, 2007-05-21 05:00
munckee
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pichoro you are awesome Stick out your tongue

and thank you for the interpretation Big smile much appreciated

also im gonna have to admit i love keywords... thats why future sight is so sweet to me... so if having a keyword doesnt make it any different then if i didnt have the keyword but stil had the same ability, ill take the keeyword any day! Big smile

Mon, 2007-05-21 18:09
Pichoro
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I hate to say this, but Future Sight shouldn't be the norm. Overdoing keywords is bad design practice because it makes all the more memorization required before you can play the game. A few keywords are a necessary evil. Too many is bad design.


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Mon, 2007-05-21 19:14
RoaTheEternal
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Looking at Deja Vu again, and I think I have a better way to do it:

Hellscreamer
Creature - Zombie Warrior
Deja Vu Black mana symbolRed mana symbol (You may play this card from your graveyard for its Deja Vu cost.)
When Hellscreamer comes into play, return target creature from your graveyard to your hand, and Hellscreamer deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
If Hellscreamer would be put into a graveyard from play, remove it from the game instead.
3/2

I think this accomplishes the same thing as your current keyword.
The lack of a mana cost means that it can't be played from your hand.
Deja Vu is similar to Flashback (and works on permanents as well).
I removed the "remove from the game" ability from the keyword to allow for greater flexibility in design. Now you can have cards playable from your hand and the graveyard, and cards that can come back over and over again as long as the cost is paid.

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Mon, 2007-05-21 19:18
Pwnxor

but doesn't putting flash back on a creature mean it gets removed form the game when it leaves play anyway?
so dejavu is not really necesary
plus dejavu implies that it was in play before and now is back
just saying

Mon, 2007-05-21 21:43
Pichoro
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Quote:
502.22. Flashback

502.22a Flashback appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities: one functions while the card is in a player’s graveyard and the other functions while the card is on the stack. “Flashback [cost]” means “You may play this card from your graveyard by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost” and “If the flashback cost was paid, remove this card from the game instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack.” Playing a spell using its flashback ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 409.1b and 409.1f–h.

These are the official and up-to-date rules for Flashback. Flashback on a creature would actually cause it to be removed from the game when you played it with its flashback cost, rather than it going into play. So since that's totally not the point of creatures, a new ability is needed.


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Tue, 2007-05-22 03:17
munckee
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thanks pichoro for the rules text on flashback

In response to Pnxor: the way i interpret deja vu is that you THOUGHT something happened, not that it did actually happen. am i correct? if i am, then the fact that the card must be in the graveyard to be played makes sense because it seems as though it happened already, but it really didnt

Tue, 2007-05-22 03:16
munckee
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btw RoaTheEternal great ideas there! thanks!

Tue, 2007-05-22 11:53
thundyr

The rules text for Mutate makes this a non-starter in most sets I think. People's brains melt when you mention the stack.
Mutate - Whenever you play this card from your hand you may counter it. If you do, search through your library for a card with the same mana cost as this card and play it without paying its mana cost. Shuffle your library afterwards.

Not quite the same, I'll admit.

I also agree that Contaminated doesn't need to be keyworded - it's simple enough to say "At the beginning of your upkeep put a -1/-1 counter on ~."

Shouldn't Deja vu be more like this? This card may only be played from your graveyard. If it would be put into a graveyard from play, remove it from the game instead.

Planar Disruption - This card cannot be played if another card with the same name has been played this game.
If it only checks the graveyard for existance then you just build in ways of keeping the graveyard empty in order to play the 4 copies in your deck (eg Jotun Grunt).

cool stuff tho - keep going!

Tue, 2007-05-22 18:49
munckee
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thundyr
- very cool! most of this helps me a lot! Big smile thanks! the only thing i notice is for your -mutate- rules text, this means you could search for another card with mutate, then mutate that, then mutate that, then mutate that... building a huge storm count easily. Thats why i mentioned in my rules text that "the new card does not count as being played" Big smile

and as for deja vu - that is waaaaaaaay better rules text! the only thing i am adding to it is "if it would be put into a graveyard from play, 'or from the stack', remove it from the game instead.

O and great thoughts on the legendary sorceries that makes a lot of sense... if anyone has any better wording or ideas for legendary sorceries/ instants let me know! Big smile

thanks all for the input

Tue, 2007-05-22 19:42
munckee
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heres the legendary intants and sorceries i made for the set... one of each color

the costs of planar disruption is most likeyl gonna have to be increased as well as the cost of graceful ascendence...

anyways... let me know your thoughts! Big smile

Tue, 2007-05-22 19:45
Pichoro
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I dislike this; this isn't what the legendary rule means. It just doesn't feel right.


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Tue, 2007-05-22 19:53
munckee
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ya i know a lot of people might not like this but legendary instants and sorceries are something ive always wanted to see... and since they will never actually be printed, i decided id make em Stick out your tongue

and if you have a better idea for the rules text please let me know Big smile

thanks!

Tue, 2007-05-22 19:57
Pichoro
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That's the thing; they don't work with the legendary supertype. Instants and sorceries can't be legendary. The 'tween shall never meet. I may've misquoted that, but you get the point. Legendary is permanents only.


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Tue, 2007-05-22 20:00
munckee
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ah ok i see whatcha mean... ill have to come up witha new type of instant/ sorcery then for this Big smile thanks!

Wed, 2007-05-23 07:15
thundyr

How about giving them a new subtype instead of the Legendary supertype then? Hmmm, obviously not Epic Big smile And you're not allowed to use "Wild" - I've got ideas for that already. A happy smile

Also wondering if memory issues can occur with cards of this type - if everyone is playing them then you might forget that the spell was played *last* game instead of *this* one. Also, if you use my wording then you can't play a second Nourishing Rain if the first is countered. A sad &#039;frowny&#039; It might be cool to remove all cards with the same name from all graveyards, libraries and hands, but it takes about another card worth of text to say it considering you have to include text that prevents you from conveniently not finding the other copies in your deck/hand.

Wed, 2007-05-23 08:07
BunnieRein
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Please please please write in the original artists' names.

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Wed, 2007-05-23 16:24
Pichoro
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I'll second what BunnieRein said. I'm ashamed I didn't catch that myself. It's only right to add artist's names.

Also, a new supertype is certainly required. If you make it have the rules you were going with originally then there are memory issues. How about "This card cannot be played if there is a copy of it in any graveyard." It's either in the graveyard or it's not, so memory issues are non-existant. Also, this parallels legendary permanents more closely. Afterall, the legend rule isn't that you can't play a legend if it's already been played that game. It's that you can't have two in play at once. You can even add a rule that if one is played, and one's in a graveyard, the spell is countered and both copies are removed from the game. That'll really parallel legendary permanents.


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Thu, 2007-05-24 05:59
munckee
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ok mutate is too powerful thats all there is too it... it also isnt an ability that leaves a lot of room for design space as i quickly discovered... hence i removed it from the set entirely and added a new keyword called comsume

Consume is an ability that can be used on all card types which is something i like in an ability. for instance madness (one of my favorite abilities.)

so here is my first crack at consume

Fri, 2007-05-25 19:46
GrAsH

You know, before I came with Imperium, I had the same idea as you: Legendary Sorceries and Instants. But later, i removed the supertype Legendary and added a subtype - Runa.

My keyword for Runa spells, before my idea with Relics, was:

Runology (Play cards named ~ only once in a game. If you don't, you lose the game. As this spell resolves, remove it from the game.)

Your current keyword for Legendary spells can be easily abused in Legacy and/or Vintage, for example, and with some cards that remove cards in graveyards. So my keyword prevents the abuse from graveyard and consequently adds the flavour of legendary spell.

Make a subtype, like Arcana, and add this [SOME NAME](Play cards named ~ only once in a game. If you don't, you lose the game. As this spell resolves, remove it from the game.) or something you like, and voilá!

And about consume, it have two costs? The sacrifice (which is universal to consume) and the one (depending on the card flavor) after the - ?

Fri, 2007-05-25 20:10
Pichoro
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It is an unwritten rule of design that reminder text never references the specific name of the card it is on. If you don't believe me, check. It's never been done. It's always "This card..." or "This creature..." or "This permanent...". Also, I'm no fan of adding subtypes with rules attached to them. There are now eight, and that's plenty. For those curious, they are: Swamp, Mountain, Forest, Plains, Island, Equipment, Aura, and Fortification. Supertypes are different; they routinely have rules text associated with them. Use a supertype.

I'm also not convinced that neutering a spell by increasing that restriction makes it better. Maybe wiser spell-design is a better choice. Nor am I sure that your design captures the true and modern flavor of legendary.


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Sat, 2007-05-26 17:17
GrAsH

And about Arcane?

Sat, 2007-05-26 17:22
Pichoro
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What about Arcane? I'm confused.


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Sat, 2007-05-26 17:46
GrAsH

It is an unwritten rule of design that reminder text never references the specific name of the card it is on. If you don't believe me, check. It's never been done. It's always "This card..." or "This creature..." or "This permanent...". Also, I'm no fan of adding subtypes with rules attached to them. There are now eight, and that's plenty. For those curious, they are: Swamp, Mountain, Forest, Plains, Island, Equipment, Aura, and Fortification.

This that you posted. Arcana is a subtype, too, right? And it has rules, I think. For example, in m block, Runa is a subtype, right?

Sat, 2007-05-26 17:56
Sensei Le Roof
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Arcane's a subtype, but has no rules in and of itself. It's just there to interact with the Splice keyword.

Online dictionaries abound. It's time to start using them.

Sat, 2007-05-26 18:16
GrAsH

So my loved Runa is a subtype to interact with Mystify and Runology. And maybe a future keyword in the second set of Imperium Block.

Cool. =)

Sat, 2007-05-26 19:38
Pichoro
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I don't know anything about your Runa subtype. But here's some more depth on the distinguishing features between Arcane, and say, Equipment.

MOST of Equipment's rules are locked up within the Equip keyword ability. But not all. If you look at the rules for Artifacts, you find entries about how an Equipment that's also a creature can't be attached to anything, and about how (normally) Equipments can be attached to things. That allows for things like that cycle of Equipments from Fifth Dawn that have colored costs to attach to creatures.

But the subtype Arcane does absolutely nothing by itself. The only thing that makes it work is Splice onto Arcane (which could just as easily be Splice onto instants, Splice onto snow, or Splice onto Runa...). If you check the comp rules there are no entries dedicated to the subtype Arcane.

So the question is, does Runa have a keyword associated with it? If it doesn't, and there're rules associated with it that aren't written on every card it appears on, then it is a type of design that's frowned upon. If it has a keyword, but has rules associated with it that aren't in the keyword's rules or printed separately on every card that has the type Runa, then again it's a design no-no. Otherwise, it's like Arcane and fine.

Edit: I went and found and looked at your set. As is, the subtype Runa (and Relic) do nothing. So they're fine. It's a conscious design choice that's considered acceptable, just like Shrines (from Kamigawa) all have the "honden" ability, and no other cardtype has it. Doing something like that is normal.


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Mon, 2007-05-28 09:30
BoomWolf

well...my thoughts of your cards (and abilitys at general)

affi angel:
generally good card, works well and got power i like it...but you might wonna change color...

contaminated:
interesting ability...but i think it might fit red and black best (red for his "power burst" thinking and black for his...evilness...)

hellscreamer:
very bad. its WAY undercosted. this thing would cost AT LEAST 2BR, and get lower P/T too...i mean, add this dude to a lightning axe of so and its GG (you turn the discard disadvantage to a MASSIVE advantage...) in hellscreamer case, its jest way too good...

deja vu:
i will not want to get cards with this. EVER. while the ability is well desinged, it is pretty unwanted and not fun. i doubt anyone but pure spikes will play it even with a card as broken as hellscreamer (its sill overpowered!), good design, poor flavor...

planer distuption:
its not working as intended with this wording, but the general idea is pretty sweet. i dig it.

ascendence: sweet. yet a bit undercosted...

feed: very good job there mate...

rage: not sure...looks risky to me... (in terms of overpower)

rain-WTF??? WAY overpowered! less forests...a lot less...or at least limited to basics...

legendary sorcery/instent total: old, yet always cool. jest dont make removing graveyards too easy will ya?

horror thingy: cute card. well thought. i like it at my uncommon slot...

consume: maybe get rid of the sacrifice part? so you can have more freedom in your consume costs. (and add the horror a sacrifice to his personal consume cost...)

overall-well done...need slight fixs (and one major fix)

Mon, 2007-05-28 14:35
Sensei Le Roof
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Quote:
black for his...evilness...

It's been said before -- evil is NOT black-only. ANY color can be evil.

Online dictionaries abound. It's time to start using them.

Mon, 2007-05-28 17:51
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Sensei Le Roof wrote:
It's been said before -- evil is NOT black-only. ANY color can be evil.

Preach it!

But, no, seriously, he's right. Any color can be evil. Its just that black is the most pre-disposed to be evil. White is probably the second most likely to be evil, along side blue. But even green can be evil, if it truly pushes its "survival of the fittest" ideas. Any x-men fans out there? Remember Apocalypse? Totally green.


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Mon, 2007-05-28 19:55
BoomWolf

i never said not everyone is evil, but black is breaking records at it...he is MOST evil, so evil usually fits him. usually.

Tue, 2007-05-29 03:58
munckee
munckee's picture

oright so heres my new version of Deja Vu. it now is basically a mirror of flashback and hence it makes the cards playable without a discard engine. Big smile

however the current version could use some help with the wording as it takes up a lot of space for the reminder text

any help on the wording for the reminder text woudl be awesome Big smile thanks!

Thu, 2007-05-31 19:54
Bom Voyage

Maybe say that Deja Vu can only be used once? That seems to have the same effect, and is a lot shorter

------------
Fear the wrath of the Cats!

Thu, 2007-05-31 20:26
munckee
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i was thinkin something along those lines bom voyage but i think that has some memory issues maybe? anyone know?

Thu, 2007-05-31 21:13
RoaTheEternal
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I have an idea, but it changes the functionality slightly:

Deja vu Green mana symbol (Green mana symbol, Remove this card from the game: Put a token copy of this card into play. Play this ability only if this card is in your graveyard.)

It changes the functionality because you can no longer bounce the creature to your hand to remove the depletion counter since tokens disappear whenever they leave play.

Now that I think about it, my way also lets you wish for the original creature & re-play it, but I don't think that is really a problem.

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Fri, 2007-06-01 00:18
thundyr

Although I'm not a huge fan of token creatures that represent dudes that might have a lot going on in their text box, Roa's solution to the problem is very elegant, I must say. As for the bounce getting lost, I suspect that actually makes the card design better - I don't think you want a card going to the graveyard and then back to your hand and then back to the graveyard; as someone playing against that kind of deck I'd get very annoyed. A happy smile

Fri, 2007-06-01 04:51
munckee
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ya roa that is an awesome idea! genious i say! Big smile thanks alot!