Artist credit where there is no discernible artist linked to an image.

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Fri, 2014-04-18 05:13
theonlyjett
theonlyjett's picture

I've read the artist credit rules and it doesn't seem obvious if I can use art in which I can't find an artist credited for it. I know that many card renders have been snipped out of posts and warnings given for violating this rule, but is that only done when you find the art to obviously belong to someone who wasn't credited? Reason being is that I have a few pieces with art that reflects the cards very well, yet, when I use google images search or tinyeye, I end up only finding several dozen to several hundred sites which also do not give any credit for those images. It also seems counterintuitive that we can post art that may already be used in someone else's product but not art that is already just floating around the internet.

Artist credit rules for reference:

Spoiler:
Always credit the illustrator when posting images. When posting renders of a card this must appear on the render itself (most templates provide a space for this), or if the illustration stands alone then immediately before or after it within the same post. If the illustrator is unknown, a copyright holder may be credited instead. If you do not know the illustrator or copyright holder, you should google the filename or use Tineye. A web address or simply "Google images" is unacceptable. Any images that havae been altered by another source other than the originator should credit the original modified by the source that modified it. This rule also applies for set files.

Fri, 2014-04-18 05:35
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

The general idea is that if you can't find a creditable artist, then you won't be able to use the art. It's a reason why most users just browse a website like Deviant Art where the artist is the one who posted it there. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Fri, 2014-04-18 06:15
theonlyjett
theonlyjett's picture

When I make cards from art, it's not even an issue. However, when I make a card and then try to look for art, it's certainly harder. When I make a card first, then find the perfect art for it... but I can't post that art, well, I guess it's not even me who misses out. So I guess no apologies necessary. A happy smile

Fri, 2014-04-18 12:57
marioware2
Moderator
marioware2's picture

Yeah, of course keep in mind that you can put whatever art you want on the card when you make it - it's just that when you SHARE it, it has to have some credit. So if you find the perfect art with no artist, just make sure that if you ever spoil the card you spoil a text-only version or a version with a different image.

Fri, 2014-04-18 14:37
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

I understand the frustration. I too have found art that fits perfectly but can't find the artist OR the artist states that you must get permission to use their art. The rule, however, is very important to keep MSE and this site running without facing potential legal sanction.

Check out my updated set hub.

Fri, 2014-04-18 14:45
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

Yeah, the thing that's stopped me more than anything is the "You can't use this without permission"

Wed, 2014-04-23 22:18
Waldo the Wise
Waldo the Wise's picture

I did a legal ethics unit at university so here's a potential site fix: If MSE were to put a disclaimer at the bottom of EVERY page and it read "Artists' rights to any posted material may be declared, following a valid declaration their rights will then be enforced. Enforcement by GNU General Public License Laws is limited to removal of art or a request for proper artist recognition. If artist recognition has been incorrectly used, action may only be taken against whosoever posted the art improperly. No action may be taken against Magic Set Editor, its hosts, or its administration as all of these parties consider users autonomous and operating within property laws."

Wed, 2014-04-23 23:29
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

The rules we currently have have given us no grief, and I don't foresee any in the future. I'm not necessarily distrusting of your knowledge, but this is really the first incident of "change the art" not being easily acceptable.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Sat, 2014-04-26 18:16
Eris Omnisciens
Eris Omnisciens's picture

If you can't find it, it might just be difficult to find- or it's from a site that didn't get permission yourself.

You can use this site called Tineye to input the image link, and it'll scour the web for other instances of the art. It usually works.

I learned about it in this exact same instance- Steve Argyle was going against the company that makes those alternate-art foil things with stolen art. This thing's good enough to detect colorshifts, and it can also ignore edits to a degree.

nolite rem conficere

Sun, 2014-05-04 16:25
theonlyjett
theonlyjett's picture

I have used both Tinyeye and Google Images to try to track down the origins of a picture to no avail. Bottom line for me, though, is I'm going to simply use the art that I feel is the best. If that means I can't share something here, then it's honestly not my loss. I'm sure that there's a change that could be made to the site rules and procedures, but it already seems like there's barely a skeleton crew running this place and even then it's a labor of love, so really only the things they care about should take precedence. In the scheme of things, it's just not that big of a deal and I very much appreciate this community and those who take any amount of responsibility for it, in both official and unofficial capacities.

Do the art rules apply to set files I link on a post?

Sun, 2014-05-04 22:51
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Since the set files aren't leechable, those are fine. The problem with renders is that people can take the image URL and put it anywhere, so the artist should be credited on there. The set file won't have the same thing happen to it.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Sun, 2014-05-04 23:09
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Are you sure about that? The problem isn't leeching, it's that an artist can come and take legal action against the site because their intellectual property is being hosted here, credited or not. This isn't some pie-in-the-sky possibility; this actually happened at MTGS and is why the rule was added here. Crediting just eases up the possibility of action being taken, and was considered a matter of respect.

I would strongly recommend reconsidering allowing any uncredited art on site in any form, as it definitely opens the site up to legal action from an over zealous artist.

Mon, 2014-05-05 03:05
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

The intent of the rule is actually to ensure that there is no link of this site to any uncredited art whether that is in a hosted image, linked image, or set file. I have even removed links to other websites that don't share this rule because it is too dangerous a road to go down.

Check out my updated set hub.

Mon, 2014-05-05 04:52
JaceMC88
JaceMC88's picture

In that case, does that mean we need to credit the artists of our avatars/display pictures? For example, do I have to credit Steven Belledin, the illustrator of Masticore? We are technically using those pictures without permission or artist credit as far as I know.

Time to write some flavour text.

Mon, 2014-05-05 05:38
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

I think you're taking the issue a bit too far, Jace - people use avatars all the time on various websites to show their personal preference towards a certain subject and it certainly isn't done for profit. As far as I view it, magic fan sets are more along the lines of derivative works with original content of their own, which is why legal issues are much bigger deal here (think of it as similar to using reference images vs. directly tracing them/using them on something like a t-shirt).

I personally think the rule is fine as is; it doesn't seem overly restrictive to me (you can always post artless cards) and I personally don't mind finding an alternate and creditable version of an art for a card if I run into an art with no artist credit.


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Mon, 2014-05-05 05:42
Sewn-Eye
Sewn-Eye's picture

I believe that technically, yes, you should, but I think the practice of using someone else's art for an avatar picture is so commonplace that it's practically a non-issue. I could see it being a problem if, for example, Steve Belledin (or, in my case, Anthony S. Waters) found out that you are promoting views that he disagrees with or something, but that seems an unlikely scenario.

"Too wary to charge, too prudent to serve. Not anymore."
—Sedris, the Traitor King