Pichoro's Template Index - Taking Rehosting Requests and Considering New Requests - CHECK HERE FIRST

Login or register to post comments
continued...
Mon, 2014-06-16 02:44
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

I think it'd have to be more carefully done but it'd still be doable :

Quick example :
Burn Card [X/Red mana symbol]Red mana symbolRed mana symbol
Sorcery Special
~ deals 2 plus X damage to target creature or player. (If you paid Red mana symbol instead of X, X is 0.)

Also, while I'll miss Earth Mana for MTG ExtraLightning Mana for MTG ExtraDesert Mana for MTG Extra on M15 Extra, I can understand if you need them for new symbols. Quick question, though - a while back, Art_Freak posted a tutorial on pifro (or somewhere around here) demonstrating how to quickly replace card grahpics (e.g. background, symbols, etc...) and included some sample ones of his own - do you still have those by any chance?


On hiatus
Looking for fun? Try Battle Boards!

Mon, 2014-06-16 02:44
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

There's no point, though; you can literally use that Red mana symbol to make X equal to 1 instead of 0.

Mon, 2014-06-16 02:45
Reality Glitch
Reality Glitch's picture

Zephyr: That's X/R, Wind is saying R/X and remove the auto-correct.

Wind: And yes, I'd think it awkward, but I could say different effect if R was payed not X and counts as 1 towards cmc.

Mon, 2014-06-16 02:51
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

It wasn't meant to be a good example in terms of mechanics, it was meant to show that X hybrid mana is compatible with the rulings.

I didn't realize Red mana symbol/X mana symbol gives you an open combination as opposed to X mana symbol/Red mana symbol though, which opens up a new possibility - what about having multiple combinations for more symbols? That would bring the number of possible symbols to 26 * 26 = 676 - 36 (taken by existing hybrid mana) = 640 possible mana symbols, and that's just for the "/" symbol alone - if you consider the "\" symbol, you have 1316 possible symbols. (Speaking of which, colored symbol mana could just be X mana symbol\Red mana symbol instead of Red mana symbol/X mana symbol to reduce confusion.)


On hiatus
Looking for fun? Try Battle Boards!

Mon, 2014-06-16 02:50
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

I didn't know about hybrid X mana beforehand, but I feel it's really unnecessary

Mon, 2014-06-16 02:53
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

To be fair, Earth Mana for MTG ExtraLightning Mana for MTG ExtraDesert Mana for MTG Extra were sitting around being mostly unnecessary until the alternate color pie got drawn up, too.


On hiatus
Looking for fun? Try Battle Boards!

Mon, 2014-06-16 02:54
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

Yeah, but it's easier to work with a color mana symbol than something that says "Pay X or Red mana symbol"

Also, Blue mana symbol/Red mana symbol and Red mana symbol/Blue mana symbol are interchangable, so that shuts off quite a few of those hybrid mana symbols.

Mon, 2014-06-16 03:03
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

I'm sure there are a quite a few people out there that would much prefer the latter over the former, seeing as designing a whole color requires a lot of infrastructure and balancing when compared to using a simple alternative cost.

Also, while I'm aware colors for hybrid mana are interchangeable, I'm saying symbol combinations don't have to be (case in point [X mana symbol/Red mana symbol] vs [Red mana symbol/X mana symbol] vs [X mana symbol\Red mana symbol]). In other words there actually could be quite a bit of room if we think out of the box a bit.


On hiatus
Looking for fun? Try Battle Boards!

Mon, 2014-06-16 03:02
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

Yeah, but making a whole color is much more flexible than an alternate cost. A lot of the time, I feel like I'll be using Red mana symbol as 1 for X mana symbol instead of as Red mana symbol

Mon, 2014-06-16 03:05
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

Actually, I just thought of the perfect example of using X/Red mana symbol - type hybrids :

Blazing Justice [X mana symbol/Red mana symbol][X mana symbol/White mana symbol]
Instant Common
Blazing Justice deals X damage to target attacking creature. (You must pay at least one instance of X.)

You could play this for colorless mana, for example, but it would be a lot less efficient to play than if you paid X mana symbolWhite mana symbol or X mana symbolRed mana symbol.

...and wow, I think I want to make a set idea around that now. That acutally seems like a really cool concept to play with.


On hiatus
Looking for fun? Try Battle Boards!

Mon, 2014-06-16 03:06
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

ZephyrPhantom wrote:
How's the Poker template going, by the way? Feels like a while since that's come up aside from the occasional coding issue thread I see posted about it.

So far, it isn't. It will, but I've started doing some work again for a few weeks over the summer. So, short on free time currently. A happy smile

Notably, the coding issue threads you're talking about are with Sensei Le Roof's version. He's doing his own less... "ornate" version that the one I'm doing.

Armond wrote:
I can provide a symbol, I think. Would just the mana-magic-small and magic-mana-large symbols be enough, or are there other versions you would like/need? And are there any specific settings I should use when exporting? I will be using GIMP, if you're familiar with it.

Actually, magic-mana-small alone would be fine, as I can make magic-mana-large from it.

Very familiar with GIMP. Of the several image editors I have, including Photoshop, GIMP is my favorite. Just export it as a PNG. Make sure it keeps the transparency, and compress it as much as possible, but still a PNG so it is lossless.

Armond wrote:
I would like to have in M15 Extra because it's "cleaner" than W/U/B/R/G, especially should one decide to actually print a card. It's not the hugest deal -- I've gotten people telling me is confusing and W/U/R/B/G is intuitive, and W/U/R/B/G is terrible so I should use for that purpose, so either way I'm going to upset people -- but the set I'm working on, as I maybe mentioned earlier, involves colorless hating colors and colors segregating themselves from colorless, so I need something to indicate "one mana of any color". As you can imagine, "one colorless mana/one mana of no color" is also necessary.

On the other hand, I totally get that symbols are at a premium. Even now, you only have eleven open symbols, and I'm sure Mirran mana is in much higher demand than my dinky little set. I could probably make things work with (though I think the black plays nicer with a yellow background), or with some shenanigans I could possibly yank into its own template. So, if I'm the only person that misses , I'm not going to ask you to put it back.

*sigh* I'll think it over.

Armond wrote:
For levelers... Looking through the images in magic-new-leveler, I bet I could update that to M15 if I had the projects these images were exported from (that is, the files that contain data for the layers). For the most part, I think this job would just be replacing the old background image with the new M15 versions. In fact, if I had enough time on my hands, I could probably do it with what I have. Unfortunately, with summer classes starting in two weeks, I have about as much free time as Modern Extra has free symbols.

Actually, just realized you were talking about levelers. Levelers have a better chance than most due to the nature of the resources I have. I have magic-new-leveler broken down in a PSD which I could possible cannibalize to make magic-m15-leveler. Maybe one day. But I too am short on free time right now.

WindMasterArceus wrote:
Would it be possible to make R/X turn into a red X? Would that work?

Perhaps. But I truly dislike that. :\

Reality Glitch wrote:
I'm pretty sure W.o.t.C. used for untap and ! for Phyrexian mana.

You have a typo, so I'm not sure what you're claiming WotC used for untap, but it was a Q, which is why we used it. But now, I'm thinking, why does untap need to have a letter? It shouldn't be used all that often, and "untap" would work just fine.

! is not an option for MSE due to the use of ! as regex character.

ZephyrPhantom wrote:
Wind - R/X as it is right now is already taken as monocolored hybrid mana. (Follows the trend of how you can input any #/color, for example 2/R is and 3/G would be [3/] hybrid.)

No it isn't. X/R is, R/X is not.

WindMasterArceus wrote:
Wouldn't an X hybrid be kind of awkward for rulings?

While I'm drawing a blank right now, I've seen it used before.

ZephyrPhantom wrote:
Also, while I'll miss OEL on M15 Extra, I can understand if you need them for new symbols.

No, you don't understand. Those new symbols could be new extra color symbols, or the old ones when they become available.

ZephyrPhantom wrote:
Quick question, though - a while back, Art_Freak posted a tutorial on pifro (or somewhere around here) demonstrating how to quickly replace card grahpics (e.g. background, symbols, etc...) and included some sample ones of his own - do you still have those by any chance?

That wasn't a tutorial for replacing card graphics, those were literally templates for making custom frames and mana symbols. I do have them, and may eventually share them.

ZephyrPhantom wrote:
Also, while I'm aware colors for hybrid mana are interchangeable, I'm saying symbol combinations don't have to be (case in point [/] vs [/] vs [\]). In other words there actually could be quite a bit of room if we think out of the box a bit.

Yes, but the further you get outside of the box, the less likely someone else is to follow you there. I don't want to get too weird here. I've tried to keep things as intuitive as possible. You know what I mean?


Edit: And guys, would you mind moving the discussion about the viability of X/R vs the value of having a different colored mana symbol instead to another thread and stop blowing mine up? No offense, but this is quite a bit. A happy smile

Mon, 2014-06-16 03:10
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

I see; give Blue mana symbol burn spells at double price. I don't really like the X/M Mana for MTG Extra hybrid stuff
EDIT: Yeah, slightly sarcastic. Maybe it's just me not liking the idea of hybrid X mana, though.

Mon, 2014-06-16 03:13
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

@ Pichoro - Yeah, and sorry for misunderstanding; I kind of got caught up in a brainstorm for X mana symbol/Red mana symbol type things and didn't exactly think what I was saying through.

@ Wind - Not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious with that last remark, but I kind of did just hit upon this idea in the last few minutes as opposed to sitting and thinking it over the span of several days. I'd probably need more time to hammer it out so it doesn't break the color pie in two. Like I said, I wasn't exactly thinking about what I was saying.

EDIT : And yeah, I'll end the X mana symbol/Red mana symbol discussion in this thread here to avoid derailing.


On hiatus
Looking for fun? Try Battle Boards!

Mon, 2014-06-16 03:16
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

I think its an interesting discussion, and have some comments I'd make if it has its own thread. But I watch this one for discussion of new template requests and such. A happy smile

Maybe the mods or admins would split that discussion off into a new thread for us? *ahem*

Mon, 2014-06-16 06:16
Armond

Alright, I never promised it would be amazing, but here it is: http://puu.sh/9vFGf/2a2ccb7dce.png

My style of art ("art") is basically "woo, geometry". So, I'm not entirely sure how well it scales down; I've tried to keep the subtleties reasonably minimal, but it might need more work.

Mon, 2014-06-16 07:10
Convex Frost Fire
Convex Frost Fire's picture

Conspiracy?

"Please don't try and hold a conversation with me. I am phasing in and out. Might be gone soon!"

Mon, 2014-06-16 07:42
Armond

Unrelated, but I found a bug: M15 Extra doesn't seem to play well with "~ is colorless."

Mon, 2014-06-16 09:56
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Convex Frost Fire wrote:
Conspiracy?

Already answered since you asked yesterday.

Armond wrote:
Unrelated, but I found a bug: M15 Extra doesn't seem to play well with "~ is colorless."

No, it doesn't. That's not really a bug though. More like a quark due to how the extra templates have to be scripted in order to function.

Mon, 2014-06-16 10:33
Convex Frost Fire
Convex Frost Fire's picture

oh...
Sorry i diddn't see. Well if i find anything then i will post it.

maybe

"Please don't try and hold a conversation with me. I am phasing in and out. Might be gone soon!"

Mon, 2014-06-16 19:28
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Nah, that's a pretty bad one based on the one WotC showed. It looks like they blanked it with MS Paint. The rarity symbol is there, the name and type bars look like crud, the watermark is missing in the textbox, and worst of all, Conspiracy cards have a bit of transparency in their backdrop like Eldrazi cards, and this still has the art from whatever card it was blanked from.

This isn't even worth messing with, especially since if I made a template out of this, the aspect ratio of the art would have to change later and mess up a bunch of already made cards.

Tue, 2014-06-17 03:18
Armond

Hey Pichoro, was my previous post with the link hiding too well?

Tue, 2014-06-17 03:25
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

An actual image is a bit easier to see, rather than linking to an image. [img]Image URL[/img] is how you make images happen. I'm sure it also takes a bit of time to implement it into anything, too.

Tue, 2014-06-17 03:38
Armond

Wed, 2014-06-18 14:14
Reality Glitch
Reality Glitch's picture

I still mana_circle.png is a better fit.

Wed, 2014-06-18 20:40
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Armond:

I just haven't done anything with it yet.

Do you have a recommendation for a code for the symbol?

Wed, 2014-06-18 20:58
Armond

Reality Glitch: It would be simpler, but I think it has potential to be more confusing, especially when next to numbered symbols or X symbols.

Pichoro: No rush, I just wasn't sure.

Would C for colorless be too confusing? I know people use that to represent any color of mana, but the only other thing I can think of is X, which has a much more obvious use.

Also, I realized you might want this for things, such as land watermarks:

Wed, 2014-06-18 21:09
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

Just my 2 cents, but without the mana background it looks like a pretty cool watermark.


On hiatus
Looking for fun? Try Battle Boards!

Thu, 2014-06-19 15:15
Sensei Le Roof
Sensei Le Roof's picture

Is O being used yet? O is a circle, plus I can easily mentally link it to nO cOlOr.

Online dictionaries abound. It's time to start using them.

Thu, 2014-06-19 16:37
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

It is not currently. Although I am hopeful to start using it for orange sometime.

Fri, 2014-06-20 01:08
Reality Glitch
Reality Glitch's picture

I think the spacebar is most intuitive of any single key, if we use a single key for it.

Fri, 2014-06-20 01:19
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

The spacebar might work for mana costs, but in the text box that would just get confusing.

Fri, 2014-06-20 01:26
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Note that it must be a single key in order to be used in the casting cost.

Fri, 2014-06-20 03:58
Reality Glitch
Reality Glitch's picture

I guess C also works for Colorless., since you've pulled chaos from that spot.

Sat, 2014-06-21 04:49
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Conspiracies are up for download. More templates coming soon.

Edit: Speaking of more templates... While they may not be a huge deal, MSE has only ever had one style of counters, the style from Scars of Mirrodin. But now, thanks again to Skaarg_Guildgeek, there are now counters matching the styles from Mirrodin Besieged and New Phyrexia.

Here's a link to a temporary installer that only has the three counter templates in it: http://sourceforge.net/projects/msetemps/files/Temporary%20Single%20Installers/Magic%20-%20Counters.mse-installer/download

Spoiler:

Sun, 2014-06-22 17:44
Reality Glitch
Reality Glitch's picture

ZephyrPhantom wrote:
until the alternate color pie got drawn up, too.
Would you be so kind as to direct me to where this has happened.

Sun, 2014-06-22 17:47
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

Link
The alternate color pie has been worked on for a while. Naturally, it's still not fleshed out with full philosophies and mechanics, but it's actually pretty far.

Mon, 2014-06-23 01:40
Flyinlion
Flyinlion's picture

Why are the conspiracies not full art?

Proud member of the White/black mana symbolOrzhov SyndicateWhite/black mana symbol

Mon, 2014-06-23 02:20
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

They are full art. Look at the border on the sample render of Worldknit; you can see where the hills in the main image continue into the frame.

Mon, 2014-06-23 18:39
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Just a note that as I type this, I am putting up an update for M15 styles to make them look more like spoiled cards:

This fixes the numbering so that zeros are always visible, the rarity code can now be a P (via the styling menu) or an L for basic land, and there can now be some text typed after the rarity code.

Edit: And I just updated them again, fixing a mistake I made that could cause problems down the road. Also, Mythic Rares now get a rarity code of "M" instead of "MR".

Mon, 2014-06-23 18:42
Armond

Cool stuff! Thanks!

Mon, 2014-06-23 21:57
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Can I get some opinions on this?

(the render, of course, not the card, which is by user chaotemagick over on reddit)

Mon, 2014-06-23 22:29
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

Card OP red doesn't get Kalonian Tuskers

The overall aesthetic looks fine - I feel like that third row "Level 5+" symbol might need to be lowered slightly but aside from that I see no glaring flaws. Looks almost ready to be released.


On hiatus
Looking for fun? Try Battle Boards!

Mon, 2014-06-23 23:26
k0n9

Looks good to me, I don't see anything wrong with it, honestly I'm surprised that we've gotten so many M15 style templates like Extra, DFC, Clear, Sparkers, Sacrificers and soon enough levelers.

Mon, 2014-06-23 23:29
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

Even though it's likely you wouldn't work on this, is it possible for the future that the extra template might be available for planeswalkers?

Tue, 2014-06-24 00:19
Skaarg_Guildgeek
Skaarg_Guildgeek's picture

I agree with ZephyrPhantom; I didn't notice it until now, but the last Level symbol should be lowered just a little. It's coming along great!

Tue, 2014-06-24 03:27
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Modified the positioning a little bit, and now I'm going live with M15 Levelers.

Edit: What's more, thanks to Skaarg_Guildgeek again, I'm still not done. An update to Conspiracy is coming, as well as Enchantment Tokens. A happy smile

Edit: And conspiracy's update is up.

Tue, 2014-06-24 03:38
Reality Glitch
Reality Glitch's picture

Why, for the past several posts, has there been a page 8 w/o any posts?

Tue, 2014-06-24 04:04
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Explained towards the bottom of page 6, don't want to explain again.


Edit: And another preview.

I know the colors of the stars are a little off, but I think I'm okay with it. Thoughts?

Tue, 2014-06-24 04:16
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

Comparison

Overall seems a bit more saturated (and slightly blurrier if you look closely), but otherwise seems usable to me.


On hiatus
Looking for fun? Try Battle Boards!

Thu, 2014-06-26 11:04
TempestCloud

I don't know if this is important, but the original token has wider side margins in the name.

And, what I came to say. I don't know if this should go here but I try. Basic Walker template behaves turn completely blank when "artifact", "multicolor" and at least one color are selected for the frame.