Space: The Convergence!

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Tue, 2007-02-27 03:41
MysticHobo
MysticHobo's picture


Anyone see this article on magicthegathing.com?

Now I am by far no expert on MSE2 script but does anybody think that the pictures below could by turned into a viable template. The diagonal casting cost thing would of course be the big hang-up here. Maybe the FPM template team could come up with something? Just curious, because this would be a cool template, that aside from the casting cost being kinda wacky would be fairly straight forward and reuse a lot of the code from the magic template. Not to mention looking really cool.

Of course if it is possible to do the diagonal casting cost we will need people with good graphics skills to do the frames and "psi" symbols.

Below are the pictures of the cards that were shown in the article for those that don't want to read the actual article.






For custom templates with out all of the searching go to http://www.pifro.com/mtg/

Tue, 2007-02-27 12:59
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Well, yeah, the casting cost is the huge problem, and far harder to surmount than the FPM templates vertical cost. MSE2 is already able to do vertical fields, which was necessary when doing the FPM templates; but MSE2 cannot do diagonal fields, which is why attempts at a hecatomb template have failed.

The only possible way I can think of to do it is to use masking because text can be made to follow masks. So perhaps you could do a field that fills from the bottom right to the top left, and make it follow a diagonal mask forcing it into that pattern. I'm not sure that would actually work though; its never been done as far as I know.

That's all I got.


There is now a custom file library for MSE2b located at http://www.pifro.com/mtg/.
My first custom set, The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183.
My second custom set, Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303.
Tue, 2007-02-27 20:01
MysticHobo
MysticHobo's picture

Nope doesn't work. Darn. It sounded like a good idea to. Perhaps in the next version real angled text will be available, not just 90 degree angles. Too bad; but I wasn't really expecting that we could make it work just hoping.


For custom templates with out all of the searching go to http://www.pifro.com/mtg/

For custom templates with out all of the searching go to http://www.pifro.com/mtg/

Wed, 2007-02-28 01:59
BunnieRein
BunnieRein's picture

I've already got some ideas for this.
Make the rest of the template and I WILL make the mana cost work.

Custom File Library:
http://mtg.pifro.com/

Wed, 2007-02-28 04:06
MysticHobo
MysticHobo's picture

By "the rest of the template" do you mean the frames or fields? I can do all of work with the fields, font and symbol font but my photoshop skills are not really good enough to "clean up" the frames for use. I may be able to make "psi" symbols. Maybe someone with these skills could help out also?


For custom templates with out all of the searching go to http://www.pifro.com/mtg/

For custom templates with out all of the searching go to http://www.pifro.com/mtg/

Wed, 2007-02-28 04:41
BunnieRein
BunnieRein's picture

I mean the frames, my photoshop talents are not nearly up to par with many users on this forums.

Mnn, most text is white except for on the white frame. Also, we are missing a gold frame.

No artist or copyright line...
erhm...

It also couldn't fit more than 4 or 5 'psi' easily.

Letsee,

Black: Necroleum
Red: Carbos
Green: Biolute
White: Lux
Blue: Gelidine

Custom File Library:
http://mtg.pifro.com/

Mon, 2007-03-05 19:04
Sensei Le Roof
Sensei Le Roof's picture

The card title font looks like Neuropol in all-caps. Everything else seems to be good old TNR.

Online dictionaries abound. It's time to start using them.

Tue, 2007-03-20 17:13
Yautja

Hey all is there any progress on this? I personally would love to see this template availible.

Tue, 2007-03-20 19:20
Sensei Le Roof
Sensei Le Roof's picture

Eh... *shrugs* if you look close enough, it's just Magic with a new paint job.
Attack -> assault
Regenerate -> shield
Trample -> overpower
Enchantment -> augment
and other such.

Online dictionaries abound. It's time to start using them.

Tue, 2007-03-20 21:46
Yautja

Yes it's the paint job im after.

Thu, 2007-03-22 15:26
helpat666

IS there a place to download the templates for this so I can use magic set editor to create cards useing this layout plz let me know thanks

Thu, 2007-03-22 17:09
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

There is not currently. The first step would be if someone with some photoshopping skills would create blank templates from the images provided. Then someone would have to code all the stuff.


There is now a custom file library for MSE2b located at http://www.pifro.com/mtg/.
My first custom set, The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183.
My second custom set, Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303.
Sun, 2007-04-15 21:23
CociCookie

Actually, I think that Magic is Space with a new paint job actually, because I read, and quote:

"Space: The Convergence is the trading card game dedicated to recreating titanic battles between powerful warlords vying for control of distant planets. Designed by Richard Garfield in 1993 and published by Wizards of the Coast, Space was the first trading card game."

Sun, 2007-04-15 23:06
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Well, yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's Magic made with a techy looking frame, and space-esque terms. The keywords correspond to Magic keywords, the card types correspond, there are 5 types of Psi (5 colors of Mana)...


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Tue, 2007-04-24 12:00
somebloke
somebloke's picture

...not to mention that the cards are all exact translations of 9th Ed cards:

Aegis Infantry - Veteran Cavalier
Spacefold Mishap - Remove Soul
Shadow Stalker - Bog Wraith
Inferno-Pattern Marauder - Raging Goblin
Crushing Xenigoth - Rootbreaker Wurm
Strike Cruiser - Air Elemental
Quareen Dome - Urza's Tower
Contingency Plan - Grave Pact
Thought Scrub - Pacifism
Neural Klaxon - Millstone
XR9 Modular Drone - Thran Golem
Orbital Bombardment - Wrath of God
Hyperadrenaline - Giant Growth

------------------------------------
Run away! It's an... um... run away!
-Nomad sentry
------------------------------------

------------------------------------
Run away! It's an... um... run away!
-Nomad sentry
------------------------------------

Tue, 2007-04-24 13:51
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

I didn't catch that. Of course, beyond a few cards that are always in, I really don't have a clue what's in 9th. lol


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Wed, 2007-04-25 07:50
somebloke
somebloke's picture

It was WoG that clued me in - the psi/mana cost and ability were identical. I then checked the others.

------------------------------------
Run away! It's an... um... run away!
-Nomad sentry
------------------------------------

------------------------------------
Run away! It's an... um... run away!
-Nomad sentry
------------------------------------

Sun, 2007-07-15 13:28
Yautja

Any news on making this work? ^^ sry but i like this concept i would like to make a set out of it

Sun, 2007-07-15 17:31
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Uh, no news at all. First, somebody's gonna have to make some blank images.


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Sun, 2007-07-15 17:58
Madness
Madness's picture

What about the mana positionin, is it achievable as of now?
I guess it should be since you said you were working on the futureshifted template.

Sun, 2007-07-15 18:05
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Actually, as of now, its not. But it will be eventually. The cost is one big problem with futureshift templates.


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Sun, 2007-07-15 21:10
Yautja

ah so no hope of this in the near fututre A sad 'frowny'? i would make the pictures if i could but i dont have the skills for it

Sun, 2007-07-15 21:17
Yautja

Hmm a bold suggestion is to email the one who wrote the article and see if he/she has the blank versions Shocked

Sun, 2007-07-15 23:08
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

I don't know that that is a good idea.


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Mon, 2007-07-16 01:46
Rob Cashwalker
Rob Cashwalker's picture

Looking at those again, I notice the text in the text box changes the padding. it's always left-justified, but the left margin keeps changing.

Mon, 2007-07-16 02:56
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Well, yeah, but that's just because they were likely made in something easy some dude could use real quick setting at his desk. Paintbrush or some such thing. When the cards have obvious mistakes like that, you do something to fix it in the coding.


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Wed, 2007-07-18 13:50
Yautja

Did anyone try to email the author of the article?

Wed, 2007-07-18 17:57
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

I'll re-iterate; I really think that's a bad idea. Actually asking WotC for blank images not only seems unlikely to produce results, but could attract negative attention to the program. It really just requires somebody with photoshopping skill to step up and blank some frames.


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Wed, 2007-07-18 23:12
The Butt
The Butt's picture

Since you still seem to be in need for them, I've finished all the card blanks (except for colored land - I'll do those later) for Space: The Convergence, and posted them here, if anyone wants to take a look at them.

Example: Green.

______________________________
http://www.pifro.com/mtg/

I'm Buttock1234 on the MSE Custom Script boards, the Wizards boards, the Herzeleid.com boards, and the Black-Sabbath.com boards.

TRUE METAL OR NO METAL AT ALL
NO TOLERANCE FOR WIMPY FALSE METAL

Thu, 2007-07-19 00:10
Madness
Madness's picture

No, the font is Venus Rising (for title and p/t).

Thu, 2007-07-19 01:19
Knight Otu

Hmm, I'll look at Buttocks frames later, and knowing the correct font should help as well. Coincidentially (well, not quite), since I don't have the skill to clean up frames, I created some "they're somewhat close" frames, but they still need work. Case in point

The "psi" diagonal and the image box in general need cleanup, a few frames are a bit plain, and the "multicolor" frame... Well, with the semi-official frames being cleaned up, that may not be so much of a problem.

Also posts as Ashardalon, Eques Concordia, and Guinea Pig (only elsewhere).

Thu, 2007-07-19 01:36
Yautja

First off im really glad someone is atleast looking at that Big smile
That said shouldn't the artist credit (along with maybe copywrite line and collectorsnumber ) be in the lower parts instead of the side?

Thu, 2007-07-19 02:38
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Okay, so the next thing missing is the "psi symbols" for the mana-font. They're the same symbols as are at the bottom center of each color of card. Any volunteers? Here's what's needed to emulate the cards that were in the WotC article.

-"Large" mana font.
-All 5 colors.
-Made so they have that shadow, not just below, but all around them (you can see what I mean by looking at the cards).
-Hybrids, half symbols, and snow are optional, but if someone doesn't make something up, they just won't work.

-"Small" mana font.
-All 5 colors.
-Made so that they do not have any shadowing, like magic-mana-small.
-Colorless circle and tap symbols from Magic font, made in same size as psi symbols (which may not be the same size as the mana symbols from Magic).
-Again, hybrid, halves, and snow are optional; if nobody makes them, they won't happen though.

-Also, about watermarks. If someone wants to make up something to use for mana symbol watermarks, I'll be happy to include them. Otherwise, we won't have watermarks that match the mana symbols.

I'll take the frames posted by Buttock and make a template tonight. I'm also going to do some other stuff to it that I've been thinking about.


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Thu, 2007-07-19 02:49
coppro
coppro's picture

Pichoro, you don't have to, I've already adapted the entire game file down to Echo. (Read: changed the words). I've used COSPX ordering (as opposed to WUBRG) with N, I, and J as variables. Lastly, I've decided that Wasteland psi would be a good substitute for snow.

Plus, I'd like some practice putting templates together.

Thu, 2007-07-19 02:57
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Then I'll stop; I'm glad you spoke up. I've only done the blend file so far.

Why COSPX ordering, though? I don't follow the logic of those choices.


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Thu, 2007-07-19 03:29
coppro
coppro's picture

S, P, and X are obvious, but C is either crystal or cryo. I picked O for cryo, because S was already taken. I had to pick some different numbers for the variables though, because X was taken, and also S was taken, so I thought of W.

Thu, 2007-07-19 04:07
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

So I guess I'll ask what seems like the obvious question to me; why couldn't you just use WUBRG and XYZ? That way it would still work the way people anticipate it to. Cause people are gonna type "W" and expect it to trigger a white frame, not "Wasteland". You're not building this into the normal Magic game file, are you? You are making a whole new game file?


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Thu, 2007-07-19 04:17
coppro
coppro's picture

I thought I should go the whole nine yards. It is a different game file, but in reality, if you don't like it, just apply the style to the normal game file. I'm not making very many functional changes (excepting keywords. Most are getting reworded and renamed)

Thu, 2007-07-19 04:30
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Yeah, but it'll be more than that. The mana font won't work anymore either if you just reattach it to the Magic game file.

All I'm saying is people are gonna expect it to work like Magic. The keywords I agree with; I was gonna redo them all too. But everybody can easily look up the keyword list and see how to use the new ones. Mana symbols are a bit more complex.


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Thu, 2007-07-19 08:29
McLight

I'll second Pichoro in the request to keep WUBRG for psi costs, to make a conversion from separate game to magic style as easy as possible.

Thu, 2007-07-19 08:50
Knight Otu

Yautja, I was afraid that doing that might cause the P/D and the artist credit to overlap. Looking at a unit card, that fear may be unfounded, but I'll have to see how it works with the Venus Rising font.

Coppro, any chance or place to compare how we each translated the abilities? I know I had a few problems, and only really commited the core abilities, but I have ideas about the remaining (Flash to Tactical was an obvious choice, but how to translate Reach? Can't leave it as that or it's too close to Range).
I disagree a bit about the COSPX ordering, but not much. I'd keep the variables as XYZ, because they are the 'traditional' variables outside of Magic, so Xeno would have to be E. Cryo could go either R or O. Hm, and my Snow equivalent has been Halo in the Test file, but that doesn't mean much. In the end, though, I suspect that people will simply try to use the WUBRG order, as well.

Also posts as Ashardalon, Eques Concordia, and Guinea Pig (only elsewhere).

Thu, 2007-07-19 13:08
Thorns
Thorns's picture

I think it should be a seperate style file instead of a game file. It would be easier for MSE users to just go with the SWUBRG and YXZ shortcuts to the corresponding mana. Don't forget to make the frame switch to "srtifact" when "Device" is typed into the type box. Obviously, the wording will be odd at first, but we'll get used to it. The other thing is, we don't know what the "standard resources'" (AKA Basic Lands) names are.

EDIT: Reading the article again, I found this:

Plains = Lux (Aerulon) - Crystal (white)
Island = Gelidine (Vargos) - Cryo (blue)
Swamp = Necroleum (Halakhus) - Shadow (black)
Mountain = Carbos (Seketh) - Pyre (red)
Forest = Biolute (Prydek) - Xeno (green)

The names in brackets are the worlds the psi originates from, but it unclear whether the standard resources are Lux or Aerulon.

EDIT 2: I'm an idiot sorry, reading even furhter, in the resources section, it says this:

"In addition to the five standard resources - lux, gelidine, necroleum, carbos, and biolute - there are other resources that may provide more than one type of psi or more than one psi at once."

Thu, 2007-07-19 14:07
Sensei Le Roof
Sensei Le Roof's picture

Madness wrote:
No, the font is Venus Rising (for title and p/t).

OM(IEAH)G. I love this font site now.

Sample my set in progress - Four Seasons
Custom styles and who knows what else at http://pifro.com/mtg/

Online dictionaries abound. It's time to start using them.

Thu, 2007-07-19 15:18
Thorns
Thorns's picture

For the copywrite and illustrator and collector numbers, you can put them on each side of the power and durabilty boxes, kinda like the CBG templates.

Thu, 2007-07-19 16:08
Knight Otu

After adding the Venus Rising font, it seems that the artist credit fits below the P/D section well enough on my templates, but it'll be a problem on the real templates due to the psi circle (and when we have psi symbols, I'll likely add them to my templates as well).

The Device template is admittedly very different from the real one (similar thing goes for the Resource template for different reasons). While I understand that the backdrop is (supposed to be) something like an engine block, it doesn't look like one at first glance, so I went with the circuitry image instead.

I disagree with making StC only a style file, though. Not only would that muck up the Magic game files when it isn't certain that the StC template will be part of the full install or only a download on the file library, it also has its own keywords. Sure, technically they're only mirrors of the MtG abiilties, but they have different names. To be recognized, they would have to be added to the game file. I'm not against a StC-type frame style for the Magic game, but then they would be for Magic cards.

Also posts as Ashardalon, Eques Concordia, and Guinea Pig (only elsewhere).

Thu, 2007-07-19 16:15
Thorns
Thorns's picture

I see what you're getting at. My only concern is that the psi, or whatever you want to call it, should use the same "shortcuts" as normal MtG mana.

Thu, 2007-07-19 17:58
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

My intention was to add a copyright line up the left side and just put the artist line at the bottom of the card. The reason for this; there's more space at the bottom than on the side and artist traditionally takes up more vertical space than copyright does. Also, copyright has automatic card numbers in it, so people will always know where it is. Not so far artist field.

Also, there are more reasons it needs to be a different game. Magic's files are tied to words like "Artifact" and "Land" and "Swamp". But Space uses different ones. Its best to make it its own set of files. As I said above, I definetly agree the mana symbols need to be on the same letters. Whether they call it Cryo or what, the frame is still dominantly blue. The same goes for the other 4 colors as well. And when those work, people would naturally experiment further and find that "S" doesn't lead them to snow, but to wasteland. And finally, XYZ are variable because of their use in mathematics. Other letters used for these do not have that common use in mathematics.


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Thu, 2007-07-19 18:20
Thorns
Thorns's picture

What is this "wasteland" thing everyone's mentioning? Something I skipped over in the article?

Thu, 2007-07-19 18:39
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Something coppro's adding that's analogous to snow mana.


Custom file library for MSE2b: http://pifro.com/mtg/
My custom sets:
The Taint: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/183
Mare Harenum: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/303
Enigma: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/719
Thu, 2007-07-19 18:45
Thorns
Thorns's picture

Ahh I see. Thanks.

Thu, 2007-07-19 19:06
Madness
Madness's picture

Something unrelated:
I'm TOTALLY gonna redo beta with this, and the moxes are SO going to be pylons. Because pylons produce psi.

Something related:
Game-wise wasteland is considered red in that article, a cooler theme for "alternate" permanents (snow) would be a ff-like negative zone.