Lorwyn/Shadowmoor United Community Set

Fri, 2012-06-15 20:07
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

Well, I've never led a community set before, but I've been here for I while, and I now have the time to lead one of these. So, with that aside, here we are:

This set we're going to make is set on a plane that's been seen before. Sot of. At the end of the Eventide set, Lorwyn and Shadowmoor merged (for lack of a better word), and were no longer doing the the on/off perpetual day/perpetual night aurora thing. So this set we're making, it's set in this Merged world. Join me friends, and let us show how this new, united world looks!

So what do we know about this plane?
All of the Lor/Sha races.
All or some of the Lor/Sha characters.
Not much else.

So everything else is up to us. How have Lorwyn and Shadowmoor integrated? How do the races act on a world that is neither Idyllic nor Nightmarish? What is this united plane even called?

Anyone who wants to help can!

Thank you,
Noahlotr

Current Mechanics:
Evoke
Hybrid Mana
Hideaway Cycle
DFCs
Retrace
Aurora <COST> (You may play <COST> instead of paying this spell's mana cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield transformed.)
Unify (Reveal a card from your hand that shares a creature type with this.)

Current Tribe Colors:
Day // Night
Black/red mana symbol // Red/green mana symbol - Boggarts
Black/green mana symbol // Green/wite mana symbol - Elves
Green/wite mana symbol // Black/green mana symbol - Treefolk
Red/white mana symbol // Black/red mana symbol - Flamekin
White/blue mana symbol // White/black mana symbol - Kithkin
Green/blue mana symbol // White/blue mana symbol - Merfolk
Blue/black mana symbol // Blue/red mana symbol - Fae
Red/green mana symbol // Red/white mana symbol - Giants
Blue/red mana symbol // Green/blue mana symbol - Shapeshifters
White/black mana symbol // Blue/black mana symbol - Hags
All // All - Non-Flamekin Elementals

Fri, 2012-06-15 22:28
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

So, let's go over some possible mechanics:

Lorwyn was definitely the collection of tribes. I don't think bringing back Tribal is a good idea; that mechanic is dead, and never really 'worked' in the first place. I do think, however, that the idea of tribes themselves is a good idea. Clash was also a fun mechanic, in my opinion, and had some fun space to explore. Evoke would be a fun way to circumvent color requirements, and was just a wonderful mechanic with fantastic design space.

Shadowmoor was really embodied by hybrid mana, and I think revisiting that is a must. It works well with the multicolored nature of tribal, but also with the idea of things mixing and blending. However, we should probably keep to just the original tribes, with some flavor-fixes for ones that are difficult.

I would propose the following races be revisited:

The fervent death-seeker Boggarts (Black/red mana symbol).
The whimsical Weirds, who embody wild magic and imagination (Blue/red mana symbol). (These guys used to be Changelings)
The embodiments of primal change and creation, the Giants (Red/green mana symbol).
The Elves (Black/green mana symbol) and the Treefolk (Green/wite mana symbol) defend the plane from what they perceive threatens it. They don't get along all the time.
The diligent and suspicious Dwarves (Red/white mana symbol).
The cautious and xenophobic Kithkin (White/blue mana symbol).
The wise traveler Merfolk, who guide everyone in the new world (Green/blue mana symbol).
The trickster Fae, who meddle in all things (Blue/black mana symbol).
Elementals return to their multicolor nature, and mix their more goofy nature in Lorwyn with their esoteric monstrous forms in Shadowmoor.

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Fri, 2012-06-15 22:59
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

Okay! Lets see this:
Tribal: Not using. Maybe some minor tribal themes, but nothing major.
Clash: Totally, because clash is just awesome.
Evoke: Definitely. Especially with all that could still be done with it.
Hybrid: Yes
Boggarts: Seem good. Sacrifice themes. I assume mainly black, as it was in Lorwyn?
Weirds: Uhg, I don't really want to change the creature type from shapeshifter. Maybe if we changed the name to something that didn't already have a creature type?
Giants: Sure.
Elves: Seems good. I'm assuming they perceive that all non-elves threaten the plane?
Treefolk: Gotta love the treefolk. I assume they'd be the plane's true defenders, unlike the elves.
Dwarves: Dwarves didn't make an appearance at all in Lorwyn, and only a minimal one in Shadowmoor, as the Druegar. Are you sure that they'd make much of a one here, either? But we do need them for White/Red, so I'm okay with them.
Kithkin: Sure, but do we have anything to make them different from the Kithkin of Shadowmoor?
Merfolk: Gotta love Green/blue mana symbol. Are we going to be seeing some Selkie, as well as Merrow?
Fae: Just like they always are, obviously.
Flamekin/Cinders: What are we going to do with these guys? How do we combine the Lorwyn and Shadowmoor aspects of these guys. I don't know a ton about either the Flamekin or the Cinders, so I'll ask for enlightenment from anyone who wishes to bestow it.
Greater Elementals: Off-color evoke! Off-color evoke!

Also:
+1/+1 counters or -1/-1 counters? Because I assume we don't want wither, but I think we should either have Persist or Reinforce. And what about chroma? Are we going to use that? We should, I think, have at least one new keyword, they can't all be returning from Lor/Sha.

Fri, 2012-06-15 23:17
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

Selkie and Merrow can probably co-exist, with Selkies tending to be greener, and Merrow bluer.

I love love love the Flamekin, but they don't work well in too many colors beyond Red mana symbol... Hm, actually, they might be a good replacement for the Red/white mana symbol slot.. a passionate and fervent Flamekin tribe, built around glory in combat and in life, sounds very cool. Holy white-fire is just awesome.

Off-color evoke sounds excellente. Hybrid-evoke would be neat, especially on a non-hybrid body.

Here are my votes for returning mechanics:
-Hybrid mana, obviously. This barely counts as a mechanic, in my opinion.
-Evoke, obviously.
-Amplify might be a fun mechanic to revisit. It was barely touched upon, so I'd love to explore its design space more. I also think revisiting +1/+1 counters is the better option -- it emphasizes reconstruction and life.

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Fri, 2012-06-15 23:43
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

Red/white mana symbol Flamekin it is then! Or at least for now, if someone gives a better idea, although this one is pretty hard to beat. Amplify is nice to bring back, but since we're not doing a tribal set, how about something like this?

Magnify # (As this creature enters the battlefield, put # +1/+1 counters on it for each card you reveal in your hand that shares a color with it.)

But this is much stronger then amplify, so could use some tweaking.

Sat, 2012-06-16 00:06
Timespiraled
Timespiraled's picture

I'd love to jump in here and help out from time to time.

Right off the bat, I want to know why you're NOT doing Tribal. That embodied Lorwyn and removing it seems to killing the feel of it.

Color was Shadowmoor's thing so just using that is simply making a Lorwyn using Shadowmoor's thing.

As much as I loved the Duergar, the Flamekin fit much better in Red/white mana symbol.

Hybrid is definitely a good idea.

And I vote to keep: Clash, Evoke, Amplify and one new one that we should come up with.

(Oh and hey there Noahlotr and Inanimate, nice to see you all again)

EDIT: And yes, off color Evoke would be cool.

Something powered this way comes.

Sat, 2012-06-16 00:12
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

I agree with cinematt regarding tribal, which is why I suggested it. Stick out your tongue

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Sat, 2012-06-16 00:29
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

Okay, so we've got tribal then! But right now I'm getting a very Lorwyn vibe from all this, so I think that our new keyword should have a Shadowmoor feel. And yeah, Duregar rock, I wish there were more Dwarves in magic. Nice to see you too, cinematt.

Sat, 2012-06-16 03:41
Timespiraled
Timespiraled's picture

To expand, a good idea would be to take both Lorwyn's focus on smaller tribes (by race and class) and take Shadowmoor's bleeding unity of color (you could draft mono red for example thanks to the hybrid) and merge the two.

I'm going to throw this idea out here and you can let me know your opinions:

Multi-Tribal

For instance, both Treefolk and Elves share Green mana symbol as a prime color.

March of the Giltleaf 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Tribal Sorcery - Elf Treefolk
Creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn for each Elf you control and +0/+1 for each Treefolk you control until end of turn.
Red mana symbol

As an example, this uses both Lorwyn's Tribes and Shadowmoor's Multi-Purpose.

Something powered this way comes.

Sat, 2012-06-16 05:21
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

I don't think using Tribal would be a good idea, though. Tribal is officially a dead mechanic, and it barely ever had significance. It just adds, for the most part, unnecessary complexity.

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Sat, 2012-06-16 13:14
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

I do like your idea, cinematt, but since we're not using Tribal spells, maybe something like this would be better:

March of the Gilt/Wilt/Whateverleaf 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolWhite/black mana symbol
Sorcery Rare
Creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn for each Elf you control and +0/+1 for each Treefolk you control until end of turn.

It can be cast for Elf colors, and it can also be cast for Treefolk colors, so it could be equally useful in either one, just with different effects. It couldn't be played in Monogreen, however, so maybe its not the best idea. But it is an idea.

Sat, 2012-06-16 13:59
ArcAngle

Perhaps we can take a Lorwyn idea and shift it into Shadowmoor. Redo the changeling ability for colors?
Something like:
Prismatic (This spell is all colours at all times.)

Spoiler:

Sat, 2012-06-16 14:27
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

Well, I think that we're doing more tribal themes then color matters.

Sat, 2012-06-16 17:40
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

The color-matters is coming through the Hybrid, I would assume. Though, we do need another Shadowmoor-style mechanic... however, I've never liked the "Prismatic" idea (yes, lots of people have had it). It doesn't provide very much interest as a keyword.

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Sat, 2012-06-16 20:22
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Since Lorwyn is kind of the set that came out when I got back into magic it inrigues me. Plus evoke and persist are pretty much my two all time favorite creature keywords. I would like to help but can only do so in a limited fashion due to other projects and RL.

Anyways, on the mechanics discussion. I really like the flavor of tribal spells just because it would make sense that elves would have their own magic, kithkin their own magic, etc. However, I think it was overdone and used in ways that made no sense; I am talking about you Nameless Inversion! Either way, I agree about using a tribal theme although, make it a little more in depth then simply "All <type> you control get +1/+1 and haste"

I think we should take one mechanic from Lorwyn and one from Shadowmoor (not including hybrid mana). Here is all of them:

Lorwyn: Champion, Evoke, Clash, Changeling, Hideaway
Morningtide: Prowl, Reinforce, and Kinship
Shadowmoor: Persist, Wither, Conspire
Eventide: Chroma, Retrace

I agree on evoke as it is such a great mechanic and adding in hybrid and off color is perfect advancement of the design space.
Clash is cool but I think has limited potential and kind of goes against the "unity" feel you guys seem to want.
Persist has my vote because it is awesome and I really want to make evoke/persist cards! However, it means that we can't use +1/+1 counters.
Other than that I think chroma has potential and goes well with hybrid mana. However, I think that having any type of color matters theme will be competing with a tribal theme too much.
Retrace is a great mechanic and has much more uses than what they did in that one small set. It also gives a feel of advancing no matter what odds. Could be used on permanents. Maybe even with evoke... actually retrace might have taken my vote from persist!
Also, I vote for one hideaway cycle!
I don't think amplify should be used just because we should take revisited keywords from the original block.

So, my votes for returning mechanics would be evoke, retrace, and one hideaway cycle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For new mechanics, we would need something to support tribal like champion, changeling, and kinship did. I really like magnify, but I think it will be competing too much with tribal themes. That would be something for a different set.

What about an ability that mixes tribal with the ideas from clash and kinship a little?

<BLAH> (When you cast this spell, look at the top card of your library. If it shares a creature type with this spell, you may reveal it. If you do, <effect>

It could be used as a keyword action instead.

<BLAH> (Look at the top card of your library. If it shares a creature type with this spell, you may reveal it. If you do, <effect>

I think the templating of it is way off, would have to fix that, but you get the picture.

Check out my updated set hub.

Sat, 2012-06-16 21:07
Timespiraled
Timespiraled's picture

Champion is a good idea but I've currently used it as the sole main keyword for a set in development and let me tell you, that thing can do crazy things.

Something powered this way comes.

Sun, 2012-06-17 01:12
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

I think that Evoke is certainly in. I think that maybe Retrace would be better than persist, if only to not have to use -1/-1 counters. I've always been a Conspire guy myself, but that really wouldn't fit here. The hideaway cycle idea seems good. Maybe have the Lorwyn requirements, then have them turn into the Shadowmoor creatures? As for <BLAH>, I think it's too much like kinship to feel really new. And I think that there's just more that we could do with Evoke then with Champion, and Evoke seems very popular among the people on this thread. Probably 'cuz it's awesome!

Sun, 2012-06-17 04:35
ArcAngle

Have you/we considered a cost-mattered theme? Clash requires high CMC, and both colourless hybrid mana and chroma (which requires more mana symbols) would support this. Didn't the Shadowmoor card in Future Sight care about CMC?

Evoke is such a good mechanic, which definitely needs to be used.

Can we modifying conspire to care about creature types instead of mana colour?

I support flamekin for the RW race and (since Inanimate didn't give one) Hag for WB.

Spoiler:

Sun, 2012-06-17 05:44
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

My votes:
Evoke, Retrace, Hideaway cycle (on dual lands?).
Regarding <BLAH>:
My sentiments are echoed by Noahlotr.

And yeah, I didn't give one on purpose. Hags felt kinda like a small race, but I think they could work! Let's give them more definition.

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Sun, 2012-06-17 06:37
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Hideaway duals... me like.

The Future Sight card I remember was in eventide and was chroma.

What if the Drueger moved to BW? They could be a more of an underground than mountaindwelling race. I could think of more compelling arguement when it is not 230 in the morning...

Check out my updated set hub.

Mon, 2012-06-18 19:23
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

I think White/black mana symbol Drueger would be okay, but I've always really liked the Gwyllion, so I think I put my vote in for Hags. We know we're using Evoke. That's pretty clear. Retrace seems like the current Shadowmoor Mechanic leader. Hideaway cycle is so small that we could easily do it. And Hideaway Duals sounds awesome. Mistmeadow Skulk

Edit: Hello?

Mon, 2012-06-18 19:42
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

Since Druegar are already established as Red/white mana symbol, I don't think that would be a good thing to swap around. And besides, Hags fit their color a lot better, alongside just being a relatively unexplored space.

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Mon, 2012-06-18 20:25
Styrofoamking
Styrofoamking's picture

Noah: May I recommend a mechanic that Zuty & I stumbled upon in the Challenge thread?

Reposting it here:

Spoiler:
Zuty: - Next : Create a card showcasing a new ability/keyword that represents one of the four seasons (Winter, Spring, Summer, or Fall).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Styro:
Darkening Skies
Enchantment
Vanishing 1
When Darkening Skies enters the graveyard, transform all Dayside creatures and lands. (A dayside creature or land has a sun in the top left corner.)
"As the nights grow longer, so do the durations of our nightmares."

Comments: I could see a season based set on transform and themed around the seasons. Kind of like Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, exact it changes during the set rather than between. Half of the cards would have strong Day but weak Night sides, while some would have weak day sides and strong night sides. Colors and lands would also flip too... lands would flip to produce or , and so on.

Keyword: not really a new one, but rather using the top symbol on the card and making it matter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zuty:
Darkening Skies - Ooo, lovely! A Moonmist that hits everything and could help flip your guys to be powerful on your turn and weaken your opponents when it becomes their turn. 10/10 I also really liked your comments and agree that a four seasons themed set would be utterly brilliant!

Stirring Forest (DAY)

Land
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add to your mana pool. Only spend this mana to cast creature spells.
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, transform ~.
///
Awoken Treefolk (NIGHT)

Creature Land - Treefolk
Each other land you control gets +1/+1 as long as it's a creature.
1/3

My Ramblings: I didn't want to copy your idea and have a land tap for A and then transform and tap for Y and/or Z, so I decided to make it that during the day the treefolk is sleeping and at night it awakens. The ability is based on Earth Surge which is the only card that boosts animated lands. The 1/3 I have on the treefolk seems to be the running theme for 2 and 3 CMC treefolk and this this guy is a land you can't use for three turns (ERB tapped, tap to cast creature, transform it still tapped, untap next turn) on a bad day, I think 1/3 was a fitting P/T. Also, his ability doesn't affect himself. Of course, having four of them out would result in four 4/6's creatures that are also lands (they don't tap for anything on their own though), but to get to that point you need to cast creatures for each one since one transforming won't trigger any of the others.

In short: using the Double-Sided Cards that flicker between Lor & Shadow, based on the symbol on them. Ex:

Bogtarnish Elf Black/green mana symbol -Light-
Creature - Elf Shaman
Tap symbol: Add Green mana symbol or Black mana symbol to your mana pool. Bogtarnish Elf deals 1 damage to you.
Whenever a player gains life, you may transform Bogtarnish Elf.
1/1
~~~~~~~~~
Glensilver Elf Green/wite mana symbol -Dark-
Creature - Elf Shaman
Tap symbol: Add Green mana symbol or White mana symbol to your mana pool.
Pay 1 life: Transform Glensilver Elf.
1/1

If this way, unlike Werewolves, the other side would only be, oh, 10% better than the default side, and the triggers to switch over are easier. Each side would have an advantage, (ex. a card that switches from 1/5 to 5/1), giving you choices, but also allowing you the flavor of either.

Meanwhile, certain cards would switch all transformer cards to "Sun side" and Moonside, letting players control which strategy / theme they want to build their deck around.

Tangent Artists present: CRIT! One of three webcomics that updates every weekend!

Spoiler:

Mon, 2012-06-18 21:39
evanmce
evanmce's picture

Lorwyn was the set that I was introduced to magic. If it's okay I'd like to somehow contribute since my other project is pretty much dead.

Mon, 2012-06-18 22:28
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

The DFC is interesting. I am curious though what effect the unifying of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor had. It has been awhile since I read it. According to MTGSalvation the Great Aurora is no more but we don't know what happened. Which means we can devise it ourselves.

Check out my updated set hub.

Tue, 2012-06-19 02:38
BolasDragon
BolasDragon's picture

Hey Evan, why do you think that the project is dead? I'm still designing cards. If you want me to post them just ask.

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
"The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog." Mark Twain

Tue, 2012-06-19 14:29
Timespiraled
Timespiraled's picture

I like the DFC cards, I felt that their potential has barely been touched...

And well, something like this...

Ballyrush Igniter Red/white mana symbol
Creature- Elemental Scout
When ~ enters the battlefield, clash with an opponent. If you win, you may transform ~.
1/1

=====

Radiant Cinder
Red/white mana symbol Creature - Elemental
Trample, haste
3/1

Blue mana symbol

We can also find ways of using Retrace and Evoke for this I'm sure.

Something powered this way comes.

Tue, 2012-06-19 14:37
Styrofoamking
Styrofoamking's picture

Cinematt - Glad you like! Personally, I think the day/night symbols in the top corner were MADE for Lor/Shadow... how could we resist?!

Cinder - shouldn't he be Black/red mana symbol on the other side?

Of course, the flip cards also start making a difference with the Liege cards - on the other side, you might go from +1/+1 to +2/+2. Which is why going from Red/white mana symbol to Black/red mana symbol might make a difference.

Tangent Artists present: CRIT! One of three webcomics that updates every weekend!

Spoiler:

Tue, 2012-06-19 14:52
Timespiraled
Timespiraled's picture

Actually, the flip side should probably just be Red mana symbol... but yes, Black/red mana symbol is fine but I'd change the name to something else.

and it should have the "sacrifice at the end of turn" clause.

Something powered this way comes.

Tue, 2012-06-19 21:37
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Hmmm... yeah I really like DFC's. It really fits the feel of a world with two worlds doesn't it? So, without deciding on ALL the details, we would have this take place on a Lorwyn/Shahowmoor world that somehow shifts between both OR coexists in some way. I am going to read the end of the last book here this week just to see where it left off but we can really do what we want because we have to have some type of "conflict" storywise. Maybe something is trying to merge the worlds or maybe eliminate one and allow the other to become complete.

And I really like evoke and retrace together because they create an interesting opposition. One puts stuff in the grave fast, while the other takes things our of it. Maybe some cards could have "Whenever this ETB from your graveyard, transform it"???

EDIT:

Also, since you guys shot down my clash/kinship variant, what if we did something from your hand? That would also be familiar.

Ballyrush Igniter Red/white mana symbol
Creature- Elemental Scout
First strike
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may <keyword action> (reveal a card from your hand that shares a creature type with this). if you do, transform ~.
1/1

=====

Radiant Cinder
Black/red mana symbol Creature - Elemental
Trample, haste
Sacrifice ~ at the beginning of the end step.
3/1

Check out my updated set hub.

Tue, 2012-06-19 21:53
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

Maybe during the day the world is Lorwyn, but when the sun sets, the world becomes Shadowmoor. Like this:

Goldmeadow Guard 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature - Kithkin Soldier Common
When Glodmeadow Guard enters the battlefield, transform it if you control no non-Kithkin creatures.
Viglance
2/2
///
Mistmeadow Xenophobe
White mana symbol Creature - Kithkin Soldier Common
2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol: Mistmeadow Xenophobe gains protection from non-Kithkin until end of turn.
2/3

Edit: For your actionword Guitarweeps, how about Unify?

Wed, 2012-06-20 01:03
Timespiraled
Timespiraled's picture

I like that action keyword.

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Wed, 2012-06-20 02:31
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Unify sounds ok, we can use it for now at least.

Check out my updated set hub.

Sun, 2012-07-01 14:15
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

Okay guys! This is NOT gonna die.

For off-color evoke, and evoke creatures in general:

Pushforcer 3 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature - Elemental Uncommon
Haste
When Pushforcer enters or leaves the battlefield, target creature gets +2/+0 and gains trample until end of turn.
Evoke 1 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
2/3

Sun, 2012-07-01 19:44
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
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Hey Noahlotr, it would help keep things organized since we have talked about so mnay different ideas if you kept the front post updated with everything that has been agreed upon.

Also, just got a crazy idea. What about DFC's that transform when they die... BUT we also give it evoke?

CARDNAME 1 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature - Elemental Blue mana symbol
When ~ enters the battlefield, gain 2 life.
Evoke 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
When ~ dies, return it to the battlefield transformed.
2/2
/////
CARDNAME 2
White mana symbol Creature - Elemental Spirit Blue mana symbol
Flying
3/3

Might be a bad idea. I don't know.

Check out my updated set hub.

Mon, 2012-07-02 02:48
Styrofoamking
Styrofoamking's picture

Guitar - A cool idea, but I think it would be better if the Evoke cost was still smaller. So:

Zephyrstealer 4 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Elemental SpiritBlue mana symbol
Flying
When Windstealer enters the battlefield, target creature gains flying until end of turn.
Evoke 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
When ~ dies, return it to the battlefield transformed.
4/4
/////
Windstealer
Blue mana symbol Creature - Elemental Spirit
Flying
2/2

So, it's either a 6cc Air Elemental that grants temporary flying and turns into a drake when he dies, or a 1uu wind drake that temporarily grants flying.

Tangent Artists present: CRIT! One of three webcomics that updates every weekend!

Spoiler:

Mon, 2012-07-02 21:12
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

I updated the first post with mechanics. And I think Guitarweeps' idea is a good one, and I think that it could go either way.

As for retrace:

Fervent Flamerager 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature - Elemental Warrior Uncommon
First strike
When you retrace Fervent Flamerager, you may pay 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol. If you do, it deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
Retrace
2/1

Ancestral Healer 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature - Kithkin Cleric Rare
Whenever you retrace a card, you gain life equal to its converted mana cost.
2/4

Mon, 2012-07-02 23:28
sommbsnph

WU Merfolk
UB Faeries
BR Goblins
RG Giants
GW Treefolk
RW Elementals
BG Elves
WU Kithkin

http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/user/18672
Check the set hub with the link above!

Tue, 2012-07-03 22:56
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Yeah, what did we decide on with the races? Can you put that in the front post too?

I am having serious trouble coming up with new keywords or themes though. Maybe we should iron out some more "current world" details to get soem inspiration going? I am curious what we can come up with for how this new plane is. Also, what is going to be the conflict?

Check out my updated set hub.

Tue, 2012-07-03 23:40
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

As for races we're going with Inanimate's races currently, except with Red/white mana symbol Flamekin and the Weirds are Shapeshifters. I'll update the first post at some point, but I guess that we need to decide day and night colors for all races first. Because it seems to me like day and night creatures are different colors, as seen by our Flamekin so far.

Wed, 2012-07-04 00:50
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Cool, so something like:

Day // Night
Black/red mana symbol // Red/green mana symbol - Boggarts
Black/green mana symbol // Green/wite mana symbol - Elves
Green/wite mana symbol // Black/green mana symbol - Treefolk
Red/white mana symbol // Black/red mana symbol - Flamekin
White/blue mana symbol // White/black mana symbol - Kithkin
Green/blue mana symbol // White/blue mana symbol - Merfolk
Blue/black mana symbol // Blue/black mana symbol - Fae (if we keep the mischievous Fae as the antagonist.)
Red/green mana symbol // Red/white mana symbol - Giants
Blue/red mana symbol // Green/blue mana symbol - Shapeshifters
White/black mana symbol // Black/green mana symbol - Hags
Elementals - All

I am seeing a potential problem though. With this list, we have 11 tribes. Each color has to support half the tribe for 4 tribes + Elementals (each color shows up four times since each color combo is represented on the day side). If we take Lorwyn, each color had roughly 14 creatures at common and 10 at uncommon (out of a 286 card set). We would have to figure out how we could support a tribal theme with each tribe having 3 cards at common and 2 at uncommon of each color it's in. Oops, and don't forget Elementals...
Also that is why they used changeling as it supported all tribes in one card.

EDIT:
Crazy idea... so what someone was mettling around with the Aurora which causes the melding/shifting of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor in the effort to somehow prolong their lives? Meaning that when they die on Lorwyn then they come back to life on Shadowmoor effectively living two lives (or whatever). We could show this mechanically a few ways with retrace or a new similar keyword.

Cindersword Fallier 1 mana symbolRed/white mana symbolRed/white mana symbol
Creature - Elemental Soldier Blue mana symbol
First strike
As ~ enters the battlefield, if you cast it from your graveyard, it ETB transformed.
Retrace
3/1
//
Cinderbrawn
Black/red mana symbol Creature - Elemental Blue mana symbol
When ~ ETB, target creature can't block this turn.
2/1

So, it represents the being in the afterlife/Shadowmoor whatever.

Check out my updated set hub.

Wed, 2012-07-04 02:23
Timespiraled
Timespiraled's picture

@Guitarweeps: Crazy sick idea man, I love it! I don't know if it fits perfectly... but it feels more like a cool graveyard idea. This shit should have been in INN But yeah, I'd love to use this in our set guys.

Something powered this way comes.

Wed, 2012-07-04 15:31
Noahlotr
Noahlotr's picture

I'll update the first post with your color splits Guitarweeps. And I think your idea's pretty cool. I know I like it mechanically, but I'm not completely sure about your story thing. But I LOVE the mechanic.

Wed, 2012-07-04 18:43
Decembra
Decembra's picture

I just want to work on Boggarts Stick out your tongue
What you guys have worked out so far pleases me.. The mechanics I see returning are all okay but I'd personally like to see Conspire return! One of my favorites, cause I love using creatures as core in my decks.

Wed, 2012-07-04 18:48
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

I was serious about the issue with the tribes and not enough design room though. We need to figure out how we will accomplish that whether it be using changeling, reducing the number of tribes, or making tribal an underlying theme rather than primary.

Check out my updated set hub.

Wed, 2012-07-04 20:15
sommbsnph

I'll willing to work on Boogart or Elves or Merrow or Kinsbale or Fae or Flamekin or Treefolk or Changeling

http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/user/18672
Check the set hub with the link above!

Wed, 2012-07-04 22:05
ArcAngle

I think a possible solution to the design space issue is to reduce the number of creatures and bring back tribal spells, at least at the higher rarities. At common, I think we have enough room for the creatures, as long as we don't have any none-tribal ones.

At Common, We have 3 creatures of each of the 4 tribes in that colour, plus 2 elementals to make 14.
At Uncommon, Drop down to 2 creatures for each tribe, and 2 elementals to make 10, but give each tribe 2 tribal spells?
At Rare, Down it down to 1 guaranteed creature in each tribe, to make room for legends and major bombs?

Tribals Instants for Red and Blue, Sorceries for Black and Greens and Enchantments for White?

Ie:
Boggarts would get a tribal Instant and 2 tribal Sorceries
Elves would get 2 tribal Sorceries and a tribal Enchantment
etc.

Also, I think the Fae should change to U/R at night and the Hags should go U/B, so that the tribal disruption remains even.

Spoiler:

Wed, 2012-07-04 22:32
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Hags aren't even a tribe by the way.. they're just space fillers

Wed, 2012-07-04 22:33
Decembra
Decembra's picture

If anything, we're lacking Scarecrows Shocked

Wed, 2012-07-04 22:34
ArcAngle

One of the many fun things design a set lets you do, is to create your own tribes.

Scarecrows are artifact creatures... perhaps they can be implemented as artifacts that transform into creatures?

Spoiler:

Wed, 2012-07-04 22:36
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Lol well if we're lacking space because we've brought in a new tribe, then we got to sac an old tribe? Stick out your tongue