The Wet Set

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Thu, 2012-05-03 17:48
ArcAngle

Hello,

I've just started playing around with MSE, and I have an idea for a block, a world and some mechanics that I would like to share and see what people think.
The basic idea for the setting is that a couple of thousands years ago, the world was flood during a planeswalker duel. This allows for the use of water based tribes in all colors. While there are conflicts between the major tribes (Merfolk, Vedalken, Cephalids, Sirens and Homarids), there are golems created by the surviving plansewalker to drain the plane, which all the tribes will have to come together and fight in the last set of the block.
Mechanically, the block is "colour matters" and using "submerged lands" in a similar way to ice-age used snow lands. I am also re-using Chroma and I'm considering using Affinity for <land-type> and a landfall variant.
Each of the major tribes start in the first set in a single colour pair (Merfolks are white/green, Vedalken are white/blue, etc) and bleeding into their allied colours into set 2 and the opposing in set 3. Set one focuses on mono-colour mechanics, with set 2 and 3 doing allied colours and opposing colours.
One of the objective of the set will to be revive older and odd creature types and to present fixed versions of some older cards.
The first set will be a large, with 300 cards (90 commons, uncommons and rares, 10 mythic rares and 20 basic lands). 75% of the basic lands will have submerged.

Hopefully, all of this makes sense and other people find it interesting.
I'll post more as I figure it out.

Spoiler:

Thu, 2012-05-03 18:17
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

No. No Affinity. Affinity is easily one of the most overpowered mechanics Wizards came up with.

Also, you need to consider that water-based red is not likely to happen by any means - red is the domain of fire, blue water. Both have loads of cards dealing with the opposing color.

Thu, 2012-05-03 18:29
ArcAngle

Affinity for artifact is definitely broken. It needed the "This cannot reduce this spell's total cost below like 1", like training grounds has. They did a cycle of golems in darksteel that had affinity for <land type> (ie. dross golem's affinity for swamp). I think that kind of affinity could work on coloured spells and permanents.

Water-based red is going to be hard. I'm thinking of underwater steam vents, and crazy goblin pirates on the surface. Green is also going to have a small number of elves living in jungle islands. Red is also the colour of emotion and passion, which I thought would work on alluring Siren creatures and barbaric Homarids.

Spoiler:

Thu, 2012-05-03 18:36
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Flooded world is a good and original premise to build a block off of. Before you do, you need to think how you are going to make it matter though. "Submerged lands", chroma, affinity, and landfall variant all seem like they would work; however, you have not delved into something original yet which is something that needs to happen. Please don't take this the wrong way, I have no idea how much design experience you actually have, but newer designers usually approach a set using existing ideas: color matters, reusing keywords, "fixing" old cards, etc. Unless your set has some flavor driven theme for "fixing" old cards or using old creature types then you shouldn't approach it from that angle. If a "fixed" version of Black Lotus happens to fit your set theme and setting then great, but you shouldn't start out trying to do so.

Mechanically, you generally should only reuse one keyword: chroma or affinity, not both. This forces you to come up with original content. Chroma is a cool theme IMO which had very little time to shine. In a color matters set I think that chroma would be better than affinity, also affinity has a lot of potential to be broken if not carefully designed (and sometimes even when carefully designed...)

Also, I am not buying using water based tribes in all colors. First off, your story says that the flood happened due to a duel which implies that the world was not always covered in water. Did all the land based races all just die off? Why would blue aligned creatures suddenly become red aligned just because of a flood? If anything they would stay MORE blue aligned because there would be lack of other colors. There are numerous ways to handle the color pie in this setting. Just making everything water based is kind of a cop out, you have to look at your world and show how it makes sense. Also, a color matters theme makes no sense when you are trying to say that traditional blue creatures are now red and white. Consider this:

White: Surviving beings attempt to settle however they can: maybe floating settlements(think water world)? Magically suspended isles? Or just setting up in a marshy area making due as possible.

Blue: Well, this is obvious.

Black: Creatures lurking in the dark depths, swamplands, and subterraneon tunnels.

Red: Underground dwellings (dwarves or goblins maybe), settlements in the sides of treacherous cliffsides carved out of the rock.

Green: Canopy villages suspended in the trees above the water.

I hope that helps give feedback...and wasn't to harsh.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Thu, 2012-05-03 19:35
ArcAngle

Thank you for the feedback Guitarweeps. I admit that this is my first large-scale design project. I'm made individual cards before, but not a bunch designed to work together.

Storywise, I was think the surviving planeswalker was a "good guy" and evacuated as many of the land-based people as he/she/it could. There are a few colony of elves living on what used to be mountain tops with a pacific islander feel. The surviving goblins have become pirates. The set progression of the story could be: set 1 -> into to plane and factions; set 2 -> find a way to disable the golems draining the water; set 3 -> the planeswalker comes back with the land based people to resettle. Hmm, the would work for a large/small/large set design, like zendikar/roe.

The Affinity for land types is going to get cut. I brought it up because I want to have some cards checking for a specific kind of lands and it seemed like a logical extension, but I remember how broken Mirrordin was.

The idea for the set came about in a couple of ways:
-There weren't many good serpents, karkens, octopus, or leviathans to find with quest for ula's temple, which got me thinking about water creatures and tribes.
- Fluff on Vodalian Mage described Homarids as (an I quote): "the Homarids raided with strength, numbers, and very little magic", which seemed very green to me. The only reason they show up in blue was the water connection. What if everyone was connected to the water? Which colour would their racial traits and personalities drawn them to instead? This also lead to the idea of it being colour focused set.

Spoiler:

Thu, 2012-05-03 20:17
CCGNick
CCGNick's picture

Affinity for Land Type is actually pretty well balanced, and an interesting design space to play in. It's completely tempo-controlled still, and it's very interesting the way it plays, because you end up having a 10 costed creature who at most will cost 5 in a mono-colored deck.

Thu, 2012-05-03 20:24
Styrofoamking
Styrofoamking's picture

Arc: I think it's a really good idea. The small caveat being, people like people. The more removed from us, the more disconnect from the characters. That's why keeping them ALL underwater isn't as big an appeal... half and half sounds more fun.

So, why not each color having one Surface race, and one water race? The surface dwellers would still be adapted to the water (elf pirates, viashino cliff divers, etc), but I think that gives two flavors.

What if you had a middle ground between fly and landwalk?

Dive - If the opponent has a Submerged land, ~ cannot be blocked by creatures without Dive.

Of course, certain cards you have would make your opponent's lands submerged.

Tangent Artists present: CRIT! One of three webcomics that updates every weekend!

Spoiler:

Thu, 2012-05-03 20:57
ArcAngle

CCGNick, Adjustable cost are hard to balance. Right now, I think that the effort needed to balance Affinity will outweigh any benefits it would bring to the block.

Styrofoamking, Oh I think I'm going to use that. I was just going to use Submerged-landwalk but yours builds favour and allows more control it blocking. I think I'm going to make all the actual fliers in the set unable to block non-fliers as well. I was planning to make about 75% of the basic lands "Submerged" (so then show up often in booster packs) and give the Golems a theme about destroying submerged lands...

Spoiler:

Thu, 2012-05-03 21:02
Styrofoamking
Styrofoamking's picture

Arc: Take it with my blessing! Just remember to have more POSITIVE reasons to have snowcovered lands than their are drawbacks. Snowcovered lands paid that price- most players avoided them, 'cause there were so many ways to hose them.

Tangent Artists present: CRIT! One of three webcomics that updates every weekend!

Spoiler:

Thu, 2012-05-03 21:11
ArcAngle

I was planning to use landfall style triggers looking for Submerged land specifically to draw cards and put +1/+1 counter on creatures at common, plus whatever feels fun when at higher rarities.

Spoiler:

Fri, 2012-05-04 01:57
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Ok so regarding the "evacuated" landbased creatures. I think that you are missing out on an insteresting story piece. Struggling through immense adversity is interesting storyline. The storyline you have is much more interesting if you have a bunch of races who have their world turned upside down with the flooding and on top of dealing with mere survival they have to deal with these golems too. That is the sell to your story. Also why do they want to stop the golems from draining? Seems like a good thing...

Submerged landwalk is better than dive.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Fri, 2012-05-04 03:47
ArcAngle

I've got a few cards put together, and I'd like to see what people think so far:

Spoiler:
CWI01 — Unified Defence 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant Common
Chroma — Prevent 1 damage to target creature for each white mana symbol in the mana costs of permanents you control.
It's interesting that Chroma was never put on an instant in Eventide.

CUC01 — Deeptide Researcher 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Vedalken Wizard Common
Sink — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, draw a card.
1/1

CBA01 — Shadow of the Deeps 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Sink — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, enchanted creature gains +1/+1 and intimidate until end of turn.

CRC03 — Razorfin Shark 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If the defending player controls a Submerged land, CRC03 — Razorfin Shark can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
3/2
This is part of a cycle of fishes with dive.

CGC05 — Relentless Pincer 4 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Crab Common
Hexproof
CGC05 — Relentless Pincer cannot be countered
3/3

CA01 — Spellwright Pump 4 mana symbol
Artifact Common
Tap symbol, Return a land you control to your hand: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.
I had this at 2 mana symbol before I realized it was a 3 mana a turn engine, that can protect you from dive and trigger sink. I may even rise the cost more.

I see your point Guitarweeps, but I think we are going to halve to disagree on this.
I really want to focus on the underwater world rather than a split-world for several reasons:
1) It was my original idea, which I want to stay true to.
2) A split world doubles the amount of world building a need to do, unless I make it a dual-faction or alliance against one conflict.
3) It splits the card space for each side in half.
4) I think an underworld world has the most room for exploration, both in mechanics and fluff
I do see your point about storytelling, and it is quite likely I am screwing it up, but it is my first design. I'll live and learn (and maybe listen to more advice next time.)

Submerged landwalk is more powerful and simpler mechanical, but I think dive is currently more favourful, makes using submerged lands feel less-risking, and provides interaction in the combat step which landwalk eliminates. If dive provides too complex in play-testing Submerged landwalk will replace it in a heartbeat.

Spoiler:

Fri, 2012-05-04 03:54
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Well it is your set, but I don't see the point of admitting you may be making a mistake and still doing it. I can tell you from personal experience that one of the hardest things to do is let go of a decision you "fell for" early on in design, even when the evidence opposed it.

And I actually read dive wrong. Dive is a better mechanic. However, again if it is present too much then it makes people not want to play submerged lands and you don't want that.

Cards:
Relentless Pincer is a cool card. It is really hard to deal with though and I think that would net an uncommon rarity so it doesn't rule limited.
Spellwright Pump is certainly a very interesting design. It is hard to balance without seeing all sink triggers, but I think it is a good.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Fri, 2012-05-04 06:36
ArcAngle

Right now, other than fish cycles, I think blue will get the majority of dive cards (maybe 3 at each rarity?); I'm shifting flying into white's colour pie to differentiate them more.

Relentless Pincer started out as Giant Crab; Mana for shroud became, but since hexproof tends to be in Green's part of the pie I moved it there. It seems a bit small for a 5 mana green so I added in the "can't be counter" to keep it a bit smaller than more of green's beaters.

Spellwright Pump needs a bit of work. I might take of the adding mana and make returning the land the actual effect. Definitely should go up in rarity, or become a one use effect.

Right now, I'm planning I'm planning a cycle of common aura with sink, giving +1/+1 and a common ability, including Shadows of the Deep. There will also be a cycle of creatures, which Deeptide Researcher is a part of. I've only designed the green one, which gives +1/+1 counters.

Spoiler:

Fri, 2012-05-04 07:50
CCGNick
CCGNick's picture

I would suggest making dive if YOU control a submerged land, rather than opponents. That way, it doesn't discourage people from playing with your new cards.

This is a suggestion made at 4 AM in 10 seconds though, so take it with a grain of salt, and be sure to do the thinking it through that I've missed.

Fri, 2012-05-04 08:43
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

A little note on reminder text - you never use the CARDNAME (~) character or the card's name. You always refer to is neutrally ("this creature", etc.). This makes it so that you don't need to manually type out the RT for a spell that grants the keyword.

I would also omit the cardcode from your cards' names. MSE automatically includes the cardcode, but barely any templates make it visible (Pichoro's Playtest template includes it as part and parcel of what it's designed for).

Fri, 2012-05-04 10:09
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

I'm with Guitarweeps 100%. And on top of what he said, what's the point of posting for discussion at all if you want to "be true to your original idea"? I'm not saying to go with every whim anyone has, but what he's offering is hardly a whim - its really fantastic advice.

Also, for note, MSE doesn't include card codes - I wrote a script to make card codes for my playtest template.

Fri, 2012-05-04 16:12
ArcAngle

CCGNick, the mechanic you suggest would encourage players to use submerged lands more which is , but is a little less favourful. I will playtest both ways and see what produces better results.

Jeske Couriano, Ah I see. I'm going to change that. I had noticed some oddies in the program's behaviour when using ~ in the reminder text.

As Pichoro says, MSE doesn't have card codes; I'm using them as part of my card names to help me design my cycles and make sure the I remember to include certain things.

Pichoro (and Guitarweeps), I think I'm more than a little scared of the idea of trying to fit 10 cultures and the associated world building into a single set, or block. This is my first attempt to designing a complete set (and hopefully block), and I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, even if it a better story idea.


I've also think I've discovered why we haven't seen Chroma again. Unless you are doing something unusual like hybrid mana, it reads as 1 for each permanent of that colour most of the time. Since that is both easier to understand and put less text on the card.

Spoiler:

Fri, 2012-05-04 16:05
Styrofoamking
Styrofoamking's picture

I like the "if you control a submerged" too. It's more positive than negative.

Or, to merge it with sink, maybe a few creatures merely have "if you played a submerged land this turn, ~ is unblockable until end of turn." Does the same thing in the short run, but doesn't make it unblockable forever.

If you stick with Dive, I'd replace the white fliers with Divers. Likewise, green with have creatures that can stop divers, black has ineffectiant divers, red might have a giant sea-dragon diver. Treat dive like fliers, essentially- this provides a little bit of protection in every color.

Tangent Artists present: CRIT! One of three webcomics that updates every weekend!

Spoiler:

Fri, 2012-05-04 16:22
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Well, it was someone else that proposed having a below and above water faction in each color. My proposal (I will single out red for arguement) was to have cliff dwelling tribe in red (goblins, viashino) or something. You can still do red underwater cards that make sense such as a bloodthristy shark but that would just be occasional creatures not a culture that you have to flesh out. Honestly, there is really not much way to make a blue underwater creature type make sense in red at all. And your story doesn't support it. If you really want to do true underwater factions in each color the setting should be a plane that has ALWAYS been underwater. If anything, your story would support shifting other color tribes to be blue not vice versa.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Fri, 2012-05-04 16:36
ArcAngle

Guitarweeps, you're right. The plane should have been underwater from the beginning, with small colonies of elves and goblins on the surface. Planeswalker duel flooding idea gets tossed. Evil Planeswalker creates the golems to drain the plane for his/her/its own evil purposes.

Spoiler:

Fri, 2012-05-04 18:28
ArcAngle

Here are all the cards I have finished to this point:

Spoiler:
White
Spoiler:
CWA01 — Cresting Wave 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Sink — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, enchanted creature gains +1/+1 and flying until end of turn.

CWC02 — Deeptide Guardian 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Vedalken Common
Vigilance
2/2

CWC03 — Tamed Manta 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If the defending player controls a Submerged land, this CWC03 — Tamed Manta can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
2/2

CWC04 — Stoneshell Crab 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Crab Common
1/6

CWC07 — Soaring Pelican 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Bird Common
Flying
2/4

CWI01 — Unified Defence 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant Common
Prevent 1 damage to target creature for each white permanent you control.

Blue
Spoiler:
CUA01 — Ebby and Flow 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Sink — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, enchanted creature gains +1/+1 and dive until end of turn.

CUC01 — Deeptide Researcher 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Vedalken Wizard Common
Sink — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, draw a card.
1/1

CUC03 — Quicksilver Eel 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If the defending player controls a Submerged land, this CUC03 — Quicksilver Eel can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
2/3

CUC05 — Floating Suzoa 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Jellyfish Common
Defender
1/4

CUC07 — Shoreline Tern 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Bird Common
Flying
2/1

Black
Spoiler:
CBA01 — Shadow of the Deeps 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Sink — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, enchanted creature gains +1/+1 and intimidate until end of turn.

CBC03 — Hungry Lamprey 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If the defending player controls a Submerged land, this CBC03 — Hungry Lamprey can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
2/1

CBC07 — Drenched Dead Black mana symbol
Creature — Zombie Common
Blue mana symbol: Regenerate (The next time this creature would be destroyed this turn, it isn’t. Instead tap it, remove all damage from it, and remove it from combat.)
1/1

Red
Spoiler:
CRA01 — Fumarole Fist 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Sink — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, enchanted creature gains +1/+1 and haste until end of turn.

CRC01 — Zunari Dancer 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Siren Rogue Common
TRed mana symbol: Target creature cannot block this turn.
1/1

CRC03 — Razorfin Shark 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If the defending player controls a Submerged land, this CRC03 — Razorfin Shark can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
3/2

CRC04 — Ironclaw Warrior 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Homarid Warrior Common
3/2

CRC06 — Zunari Traveller Red mana symbol
Creature — Siren Rogue Common
1/1

CRC07 — Goblin Aquanaut Red mana symbol
Creature — Goblin Pirate Common
Blue mana symbol: CRC07 — Goblin Aquanaut gains dive until end of turn.
1/1

CRC08 — Goblin Looter 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Goblin Pirate Common
When CRC08 — Goblin Looter deals damage to a player, you may discard then draw a card.
1/1

CRS01 — Steamvent 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Sorcery Common
CRS01 — Steamvent deals 1 damage to target creature or player for each red permanent you control.

Green
Spoiler:
CGC01 — Ironclaw Runt 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Homarid Warrior Common
Sink — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, put a +1/+1 counter on CGC01 — Ironclaw Runt.
1/1

CGC02 — Sponge Herder 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Merfolk Shaman Common
TGreen mana symbol: Put a 1/1 green Sponge creature token into the battlefield.
1/1

CGC03 — Finned Behemoth 4 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If the defending player controls a Submerged land, this CGC03 — Finned Behemoth can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
5/5

CGC05 — Relentless Pincer 4 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Crab Common
Hexproof
CGC05 — Relentless Pincer cannot be countered
3/3

CGC07 — Highlands Druid Green mana symbol
Creature — Elf Druid Common
Tap symbol: Add Blue mana symbol to your mana pool
1/1

Artifacts
Spoiler:
CA01 — Spellwright Pump 2 mana symbol
Artifact Common
Tap symbol, Sacrifice CA01 — Spellwright Pump: Return a land you control to your hand

CAC01 — Rusted Worker 1 mana symbol
Artifact Creature — Golem Common
CAC01 — Ancient Worker enters the battlefield tapped.
1/1

CAC02 — Drenched Automation 3 mana symbol
Artifact Creature — Golem Common
Sink — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under you control, tap CAC02 — Drenched Automation.
3/3

Lands
Spoiler:
CL01 — Erewif Temple
Submerged Land Common
Tap symbol: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Tap symbolWhite mana symbol: Gain 4 life.

CL02 — Whirlpool
Submerged Land Common
Tap symbol: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Tap symbolBlue mana symbol: Return target to it’s owner’s hand.

CL03 — Unhallowed Waters
Submerged Land Common
Tap symbol: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Tap symbolBlack mana symbol: Target creature gains -1/-1 until end of turn.

CL04 — Tropical Highlands
Land Common
Tap symbol: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Tap symbolGreen mana symbol: Target creature gains +3/+3 until end of turn.

CL05 — Pirate’s Cove
Land Common
Tap symbol: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Tap symbolRed mana symbol: CL05 — Pirate’s Cove deals 2 damage to target creature or player.


Here is the design skeleton I have been working from:
Spoiler:
Card Breakdown: 300 Total Cards
Commons: 90 Cards
Creatures: 45 Cards
Instants: 15 Cards
Sorceries: 15 Cards
Auras: 5 Cards
Enchantments: 0 Cards
Artifacts: 3 Cards
Artifact Creatures: 2 Cards
Equipment: 0 Cards
Nonbasic Lands: 5 Cards
White: +1 Creature, -1 Sorcery
Blue: -1 Creature, +1 Instant
Black: -
Red: -1 Creature, +1 Sorcery
Green: +1 Creature, -1 Instant

Uncommons: 90 Cards
Creatures: 30 Cards
Instants: 15 Cards
Sorceries: 15 Cards
Auras: 5 Cards
Enchantments: 5 Cards
Artifacts: 5 Cards
Artifact Creatures: 5 Cards
Equipment: 5 Cards
Nonbasic Lands: 5 Cards
White: ?
Blue: ?
Black: ?
Red: ?
Green: ?

Rares: 90 Cards
Creatures: 30 Cards
Instants: 15 Cards
Sorceries: 15 Cards
Auras: 5 Cards
Enchantments: 5 Cards
Artifacts: 5 Cards
Artifact Creatures: 5 Cards
Equipment: 5 Cards
Nonbasic Lands: 5 Cards
White: ?
Blue: ?
Black: ?
Red: ?
Green: ?

Mythic Rares: 10 Cards
As Needed

Basic Lands: 20 Cards
3 Submerged Plains
1 Plain
3 Submerged Islands
1 Island
3 Submerged Swamps
1 Swamp
3 Submerged Mountains
1 Mountain
3 Submerged Forests
1 Forest

Cycles:
Spoiler:
C*C01 — Creature Type moving left
C*C02 — Creature Type moving right
C*C03 — Fish Cycle
C*C04 — Vanilla
C*C05 — French Vanilla
C*C06 — 1 CMC Creature
C*C07 — Secondary typed Creature
C*I01 — Count coloured Instant
C*S01 — Count coloured Sorcery

Spoiler:

Fri, 2012-05-04 17:56
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

That also makes sense why draining is bad as it is destroying their way of life and ecosystem. Also, might I suggest that you don't peg the planeswalker as "evil" pursay, just doing this for self fulfilling reasons. There are lots of these in magic. Liliana for instance. While she is a black aligned necromancer, she is not inherently "evil" just selfish, caring not what her actions do to others save a few she cares about. It also makes people a little more curious about your story.
So this planeswalker is draining the water? Why? He's evil? Ok...
As opposed to wondering what gain he gets? What is his motive? Is he friend of foe? Will draining the water somehow help the plane but the residents don't know that? Maybe he is returning and knows about the ancient past that put the world underwater? Who knows...
It can create a lot more interest in your storyline if motives are unclear in the beginning and if motives are grey and not straight good/evil. I am not saying in all cases, such as Phyrexia and demons in Innistrad which needed to be "evil". More like Tezzeret, Bolas, Seekers of Carmot, etc where you are not sure if you agree with their motives or not. Maybe some player will root for him while others will not. just a thought.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Fri, 2012-05-04 18:17
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Aye, focus on motive. I will quote Yahtzee here:

Zero Punctuation - Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles wrote:
A villain whose only motivation is total commitment to being a bastard is not good storytelling. It leaves plot holes the size of a c*******'s r*****[...]

Each of the villains in my blocks have a motive.
>Borghild wants to commit genocide to make Rämdir a Bori-controlled plane
>Father Order is trying to hand Lantrus to Dark Falz, who'd crush the Wooded Woad and thus control the entire plane
>Blood Raven is hunting someone on Neopia, and after she leaves, Karys Fellstone wants to purge the gods and faithful from the plane
>Alinivar wants to prevent a pilgrim from awakening and thus ruining a prophecy
>The Elves of the Dreamtime want to reset the world to a primal state, merging reality and the Dreamtime.

The only "villains" that have no real motivation are Luften, and that's only because they're the cause of Bris' sorry state and are attempting to reverse it.

Fri, 2012-05-04 18:27
ArcAngle

I think that is what I need to work on right now. What motivates the factions, where are the conflicts, who are the heroes and villians and what do they want. Time to look up some storytelling stuff.

Spoiler:

Fri, 2012-05-04 19:13
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Being a fanfic writer with some skill, I can make a few suggestions.

First, have a protagonist (the character around whom the story will center) and an antagonist (the character or group opposing the protagonist). It's up to you how obvious you want to make it that they are so, but subtleties are difficult to pull off, so you may want to make it unambiguous.

Second, make a rough plot outline before you do anything beyond the previous point. It'll help you immensely if you have a general idea as to how the plot will unfold as you write. Here's an example of a plot outline, this one from my Lantrus block:

Quote:
Lantrus:
  • Polfwyr Shanbanu is assassinated
  • Aithan Xabat enters the plane and advises Father Order
  • Swamp villages and hamlets change allegiance to Wooded Woad
Law And Order:
  • Leafcrescent discovers Father Order contacting Dark Falz
  • Leafcrescent exposes Father Order, causing Elath Ægistiphant's spark to awaken due to the betrayal of the plane
  • Father Order and the Hand attempt to rally Lantrus, but fail because Aithan defects and aids Father Law
Abandonment:
  • The Hand is routed and disbanded after an invasion by Acria
  • Father Law is assassinated by Father Order, who in turn is sniped with a crossbow by Father Judgment
  • Aithan and Ægistiphant leave the plane in the middle of a civil war

Third, flesh out all the relevant characters - prot-/deuter-/tritagonists, supporting cast, antagonists, whatever. The goal is to make your story not seem like a trailer for The New Adventures of Mermaidman and Barnacleboy that the special effects team passed out on. WHat motivates them? What are their overall goals? What are their likes and dislikes? What's their general thought process?

Sun, 2012-05-06 20:52
ArcAngle

After some thought, I've decided on some major characters:

Imake, a newly awakened Goblin Planeswalker (R/U). He awakened during a massive storm that sunk the ship where he was working as an tinker. He has formed an alliance with Lilean, were he builds the devices to drain the ocean in exchange for learning magic.

Lilean, the Elven Grand Druid. She wants to help her people and end the wars between the tribes by creating more land for them to live on.

Crown Prince Vannil of the Merfolk Erewif Kingdom. His father was killed ten years ago by raider from the Ironclaw Homarid tribe. The Council of Counts appointed Mystic Aquarion to be a neutral Regent and rule the kingdom until Vantil reached adulthood. The closer Vannil gets to adulthood the more he struggles to escape from the regent's protection and explore the kingdom on his own.

Frelis, a young Zunari (siren gypsy) performer. She helps Vannil escape the palace, unaware that her parents are spies employed by the Demmghu (Cephalid) empire.

Portan, Warlord of the Ironclaw Homarid. He killed the king of the Merwolf ten years ago, and has used his fame, and martial prowess to unite the Homarids under his banner.

Empress Xemara and Emperor Bakar, the leaders of the Demmghu Empire. They have been preparing for war with Erewif Kingdoms by hiring spies and saboteurs among the Zunari. They hope to cripple the Erewif with internal strife before invading.

Islakan, a Vedalken Planeswalker (W/U). He is the leader of the Deeptide Expedition. They have come from Mirrodin looking for a new world to settle on and escape the Phyrexians.

Spoiler:

Fri, 2012-05-18 02:33
ArcAngle

After doing some work on the story for the set and reviewing the mechanics, I've decided to stop working on this for now.

The primary mechanics are too parasitic.

Spoiler:

Wed, 2012-06-06 02:20
Zodiarch

I hope I'm not too late here, but I'd like to offer some encouagement - just because you design is parasitic doesn't make it bad - just that it needs more support that isn't, and I'm looking at Allys as an example. Or, for another, Kamigawa - while the creature type support (samurai, I'm looking at you) was way too parasitic, it was required flavor-wise; while components like Spirits were used instead of Kami to make them still relevant (even if a good portion were over-costed).

To clear up what I'm trying to say, look at Arcane spells. There was only a handful, and a smaller group still of cards with Splice, but the spells themselves were such basic, standard effects that to this day, I still run a few over "strictly better" variants because of the off-chance I can splice them for an added bonus. Parasitic mechanics aren't wonderful, but you don't have to avoid them like the plague - and it's not like you have Wizard's Market Research data to really look into what works and what doesn't. A BIG lesson in design; not everything has to be a smash hit, not everything even has to work out. You can NOT expect every mechanic to work out, but that doesn't mean you're just allowed to throw them away and not try.

I probably wouldn't be so concerned, but I really like the premise - each plane has it's own environment, and while underwater is inherently blue, it's actually one of the least relevant aspects of blue, that has very little to do with it's philosophy beyond elemental associations and symbolism of "a sea of thought". Each color can easily be represented underwater, if you allow it to be - coral forests, trenches and vents, air pockets; I actually think blue is the HARDEST color to put underwater, once you break the aquatic=blue association.

Wed, 2012-06-06 19:56
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Zodiarch) Erm, in Shintoism kami are indeed spirits. (In fact, kami, as a word, can be translated as "Deity" or "Spirit".)

I also agree. Underwater environs can encompass all forms of mana, from vast sea plains (White mana symbol) to small, turbulent eddies (Blue mana symbol), from dead sections of reef (Black mana symbol) to undersea thermal vents (Red mana symbol), to living kelp forests or coral reefs (Green mana symbol). Just because it's difficult does not make it impossible. My Atijarund block is harder for me to do because I can't find any definitive info on indigenous Australian beliefs, but it doesn't stop me working on it.

Wed, 2012-06-06 18:57
Zodiarch

I'm aware, but Kami could easily have been its own creature type, just like Samurai was its own type, when it could easily have been broken down into Soldiers and Knights - what defines each creature type is kinda blurry like that, but it's useful to keep in mind both flavor and mechanics when deciding what's what. Kami are spirits, but a very specific kind, very different from White/Black's ghost-spirits; meanwhile, cards like Soul of the Harvest get away with the type Elemental, which could easily have fit many of the Kami as well. In the end, Samurai was just a better fit than soldier for flavor-based mechanics, while some Kami are still useful only because they interact in strange ways with more modern spirit cards.

Sorry to ramble on and on, but the point is sometimes it's okay to make a poor decision, if it appeals to a certain demographic. Parasitic designs like that are also really useful to try and create a powerful mechanic that can't get out-of-hand because it's restricted to a single set/block (see Ally creatures).

I do really like the idea of Green being represented by algae and Sargasso Seas, that was a great call. I really hope OP decides to pick this back up. My only issue would be Basic Lands, even if they're submerged, the traditional five don't really make much sense, but I suppose it was just as strange and bend to flavor in Ravnica.

Wed, 2012-06-06 19:57
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

I gave possibilities for basic lands in my last post - Sea plains for Plains, eddies for Islands (remember, Blue mana symbol is also the color of elemental air), dead reef for Swamps (since corals are creatures), thermal vents for Mountains (since these tend to be situated above or near undersea volcanoes), and kelp forests or live reefs for Forests.

Mon, 2012-06-11 15:53
Tapacore
Tapacore's picture

I'll add this bit of encouragement, which may be more for you guys helping out as much as the OP - reading this thread and the advice given put me on a path to flesh out my storyline a lot more, which in turn helped and continues to help the design along.

Thu, 2012-06-14 14:32
ArcAngle

Thank you for your feedback.

I had been planning on doing something similar to what JC suggested for the lands.

I have done some work on the storyline, and the setting.

First the major tribes are:
Merfolk (White/Green)
Homarid (Green/Red)
Sirens (Red/Black)
Cephalid (Black/Blue)
Vedalken (Blue/White)
Goblin (Red)
Elf (Green)

Story:
10 years ago the King of the Erewif Kingdoms (Merfolk), Nedif, was killed by an Ironclaw Tribe (Homarids) raiding party. His wife, Baswime, became regent and rules until his son, Gyref, is of age. Devastated by the lose of her husband, she keeps Gyref confinded to the castle. As he grows up, he struggle against his mother's control and dreams of seeing the kingdom he will one day rule. Meanwhile the Rulers of the Tanosi Empire (Cephalids) build their forces and hire Zunari nomads (Sirens) as spies and saboteurs, enacting a long plan to cripple the Erewif on the eve of Gyref's ascension.

The first set's story begins with the arrival of Vedalken refugees from Mirrodin. They send emissaries to both the Erewif and the Tanosi hoping to negotiate for "land" and trade. Both the Erewif and the Tanosi know that if the Vedalken join them, they will be able to defeat the other.

After a mighty storm, Squat a newly awakened and ignorant goblin planeswalker appears on the shores inhabited by the elves. The Elven High Priestess Iredi realizes how much power Squat has and manipulates him into building massive pumps to drain the ocean and create new lands for her people to live on.

A young Zunari girl, Zyros, sneaks Gyref out of the castle, unaware that her parents work for the Tanosee Empire. Say that they are guiding him across the kingdom, they attempt to deliver Gyref to the Empire. Gyref realizes something is wrong, so they are forced to lock up both him and Zyros, but they manage to free themselves and flee toward the surface when her parent's caravan is attacked by homarids. End of the first set.

And a card:
Squat, Goblin Tinker 2UR
Planeswalker — Squat Mythic Rare
Starting Loyalty: 5
1: Discard a card at random from your hand. Put a colorless X/X golem artifact creature token into play where X is the discarded card’s mana cost.
-2: Draw a two cards.
-6: You receive an emblem with “When you draw a card, deal 1 damage to target creature or player”.

I'm also started work on the After the Fall block as well.

Spoiler:

Wed, 2012-06-13 18:50
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Is Squat's first ability a +1 or a -1?

Quote:
?1: Discard a card at random from your hand. Put a X/X colorless Golem artifact creature token onto the battlefield, where X is the discarded card's converted mana cost.
-2: Draw two cards.
-6: You gain an emblem which reads "Whenever you draw a card, ~ deals 1 damage to target creature or player."

My wording may be off, but I believe that's correct.

Thu, 2012-06-14 12:48
ArcAngle

Squat first ability is a +1, and not sure how to word the second ability either...

Spoiler:

Fri, 2012-06-15 14:09
ArcAngle

Having lost most of my file for this set (both world-building and cards A sad &#039;frowny&#039; ), I'm basically starting fresh with it. Which oddly, is not entirely a bad thing.

I've decide to toss the colour play ideas out the window (for the first set at least) and focus entirely on submerged lands for mechanics: Sink is being renamed to Waterfall, and Affinity for Submerged lands will be used (approx. 1 card at common, 2 at uncommon and 3 and rare per colour). I'm also going to shift around the card breakdown a little, increasing the commons to 100 and reducing uncommons and rares to 85. I'll post a revised card breakdown and design skeleton when they are finished.

Spoiler:

Mon, 2012-06-18 08:16
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

A 100/85/85 spread does *not* seem realistic. In general, there's almost twice as many commons as uncommons and three-quarters as many rares as uncommons.

Mon, 2012-06-18 16:21
ArcAngle

So 120/60/45 normal? 100/85/85 is just a guess. I'll change it if I have any problems when I'm done with the commons.

Spoiler:

Mon, 2012-06-18 17:26
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Closer to 110/62/53. Mythic rares also take up some space, but it's generally just a handful of cards (~13 in a large and ~8 in a small set).

Sun, 2012-06-24 16:08
ArcAngle

I meant to post these earlier: Revised Card Breakdowns (using a 110/85/85 template)
Colours are listed as: White/Blue/Black/Red/Green; All Artifacts and Lands are colourless.

Commons: 110
Creatures: 50 (11/9/10/9/11)
Instants: 16 (3/5/2/4/2)
Sorceries: 16 (2/2/5/4/3)
Enchantments: 0
Auras: 8 (2/2/1/1/2)
Artifacts: 2
Artifact Creatures: 2
Equipment: 1
Lands: 5

Uncommons: 85
Creatures: 35 (8/6/7/6/8)
Instants: 11 (2/4/1/3/1)
Sorceries: 11 (1/1/4/3/2)
Enchantments: 6 (1/2/1/1/1)
Auras: 7 (2/1/1/1/2)
Artifacts: 4
Artifact Creatures: 3
Equipment: 3
Lands: 5

Rares: 85
Creatures: 30 (7/5/6/5/7)
Instants: 16 (3/5/2/4/2)
Sorceries: 16 (2/2/5/4/3)
Enchantments: 7 (2/2/1/1/1)
Auras: 6 (1/1/1/1/2)
Artifacts: 3
Artifact Creatures: 2
Equipment: 2
Lands: 3

Mythic Rares are as needed.
For Example:

ML01 — Deep Blue Sea
Legendary Land — Submerged Mythic Rare
T: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool for each Submerged land you control.

Spoiler:

Sun, 2012-07-08 02:19
ArcAngle

I've been working on this, and I've got the commons done, except for naming and fluff.
I'd like for people to look over them and tell me where I have screwed up, either in costing, rarity, complexity, etc.
I want to hear about any problems you see, and what solutions people have to offer before I start work on the uncommons.

Revised based on JC and Jolykj's posts.
White Cards:

Spoiler:
CW01 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If defending player controls a Submerged land, CW01 can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
2/2

CW02 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Merfolk Cleric Common
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, you gain 2 life.
1/1

CW03 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Vedalken Wizard Common
Tap symbol: Target creature gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn.
1/1

CW04 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Octopus Common
When CW04 enters the battlefield, tap target creature. It doesn’t untap in its controller’s next untap step.
2/2

CW05 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Vedalken Warrior Common
Blue mana symbol: CW05 can block an additional creature this turn.
2/3

CW06 White mana symbol
Creature — Crab Common
1/2

CW07 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Merfolk Knight Common
Vigilance
2/3

CW08 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Merfolk Knight Common
First Strike
3/2

CW09 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If defending player controls a Submerged land, CW09 can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
3/3

CW10 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Jellyfish Common
Defender
2/6

CW11 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Leech Common
Lifelink
2/4

CW12 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant Common
Target player gains 2 life for each Submerged land you control.

CW13a 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant Common
Prevent the next 2 damage to each creature you control.

CW13b White mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant Common
Prevent the next 1 damage to each creature you control.

CW14 4 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant Common
Exile target attacking or blocking creature.
Affinity for Submerged lands (This spell costs 1 mana symbol less to cast for each Submerged land you control.)

CW15 White mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Target creature gains vigilance and +0/+2 until the end of turn.

CW16 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Destroy target enchantment.
Draw a card.

CW17 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature cannot attack or activate its activated abilities.

CW18 White mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains vigilance.
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, enchanted creature gains +1/+1 until end of turn.

Blue Cards:

Spoiler:
CU01 5 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If defending player controls a Submerged land, CU01 can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
5/6

CU02 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Vedalken Wizard Common
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under you control, target player puts the top 2 cards of their library into their graveyard.
1/1

CU03 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Cephalid Wizard Common
Blue mana symbol, Tap symbol: Look at the top 4 cards of target player’s library and put them back in any order.
2/2

CU04 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Vedalken Warrior Common
When CU04 enters the battlefield, return a land you control to your hand.
3/2

CU05 4 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Serpent Common
Blue mana symbol: CU05 gains +1/+0 until end of turn.
5/5

CU06 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Turtle Common
2/4

CU07 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Vedalken Wizard Common
Hexproof
1/2

CU08 Blue mana symbol
Creature — Cephalid Rogue Common
Flash
1/1

CU09 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If defending player controls a Submerged land, CU09 can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
2/1

CU10 Blue mana symbol
Instant Common
Target player reveals their hand and the top card of their library.

CU11 Blue mana symbol
Instant Common
Target land becomes submerged until end of turn.
Draw a card.

CU12 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant Common
Look at the top X cards of target player’s library and put them back in any order, where X is the number of Submerged land you control.

CU13 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant Common
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1 mana symbol for each Submerged land you control.

CU14 4 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant Common
Target player draws 2 cards.
Affinity for Submerged lands (This spell costs 1 mana symbol less to cast for each Submerged land you control.)

CU15 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Return target nonland permanent to its owner’s hand unless its controller returns 2 lands they control to their owner's hand.

CU16 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Look at the top 4 cards of each player’s library and put them back in any order.
Draw a card.

CU17 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature doesn’t untap during its controllers untap step.

CU18 Blue mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains dive.
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, enchanted creature gains +1/+1 until end of turn.

Black Cards:

Spoiler:
CB01 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If defending player controls a Submerged land, CB01 can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
3/4

CB02 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Cephalid Wizard Common
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under you control, target player loses 1 life.
1/1

CB03 Black mana symbol
Creature — Siren Rogue Common
Tap symbol: Target creature gains -1/-1 until end of turn.
1/1

CB04 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Leech Common
When CB04 enters the battlefield, target player loses 3 life and you gain 3 life.
3/3

CB05 Black mana symbol
Creature — Zombie Common
Blue mana symbol: Regenerate (The next time this creature would be destroyed this turn, it isn’t. Instead tap it, remove all damage from it, and remove it from combat.)
1/1

CB06 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Horror Common
4/1

CB07 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Siren Warrior Common
CB07 cannot block.
3/3

CB08 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Ooze Common
Deathtouch
1/3

CB09 BB
Creature — Cephalid Warrior Common
Intimidate
2/1

CB10 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Cephalid Cleric Common
Lifelink
1/2

CB11 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Instant Common
CB11 deals 2 damage to target creature or player and you gain 2 life.

CB12 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Instant Common
Target creature gains -1/-1 until end of turn for each Submerged land you control.

CB13 Black mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Each player discards a card at random from their hand.

CB14 4 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Destroy target creature.
Affinity for Submerged lands (This spell costs 1 mana symbol less to cast for each Submerged land you control.)

CB15 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Put target creature from any graveyard into play. It gains haste. Exile it at the end of turn.

CB16 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Target creature gains +4/+4. Sacrifice it at the end of turn.

CB17 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Target player loses 1 mana symbol life for each card in their hand.
Draw a card.

CB18 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains intimidate.
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, enchanted creature gains +1/+1 until end of turn.

Red Cards:

Spoiler:
CR01 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If defending player controls a Submerged land, CR01 can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
3/2

CR02 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Siren Shaman Common
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, CR02 deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
1/1

CR03 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Siren Rogue Common
Tap symbol: Target creature can’t block this turn.
1/1

CR04 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Goblin Pirate Common
When CR04 enters the battlefield, discard then draw a card.
1/1

CR05 — Goblin Aquanaut Red mana symbol
Creature — Goblin Pirate Common
Blue mana symbol: CR05 — Goblin Aquanaut gains dive until end of turn.
1/1

CR06 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Homarid Warrior Common
3/2

CR07 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Homarid Warrior Common
Haste
3/3

CR08 Red mana symbol
Creature — Siren Warrior Common
First Strike
1/1

CR09 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Octopus Common
Trample
4/2

CR10 Red mana symbol
Instant Common
Target creature gains +3/+0 until end of turn.

CR11 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Instant Common
CR11 deals 3 damage target creature. It cannot attack or block this turn.

CR12 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Instant Common
CR12 deals 1 damage to target creature or player for each Submerged land you control.

CR13 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Instant Common
Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains haste until end of turn.

CR14 4 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Sorcery Common
CR14 deals 4 damage to target creature or player.
Affinity for Submerged lands (This spell costs 1 mana symbol less to cast for each Submerged land you control.)

CR15 Red mana symbol
Sorcery Common
CR15 deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

CR16 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Destroy target artifact.
Draw a card.

CR17 1 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Destroy target Submerged Land.

CR18 Red mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains haste.
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, enchanted creature gains +1/+1 until end of turn.

Green Cards:

Spoiler:
CG01 3 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If defending player controls a Submerged land, CG01 can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
5/5

CG02 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Homarid Warrior Common
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, CG02 gains +2/+2 until end of turn.
2/2

CG03 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Merfolk Shaman Common
Green mana symbol, Tap symbol: Put a 1/1 green Sponge creature token into the battlefield.
1/1

CG04 — Lowlands Fisher 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Elf Warrior Common
When CG04 — Lowlands Fisher enters the battlefield destroy target creature with dive.
2/2

CG05 — Highlands Farmer Green mana symbol
Creature — Elf Druid Common
Tap symbol: Add Blue mana symbol to your mana pool.
1/1

CG06 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Hippo Common
4/5

CG07 Green mana symbol
Creature — Fish Common
Dive (If defending player controls a Submerged land, CG07 can only be blocked by creatures with Dive.)
1/1

CG08 3 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Homarid Shaman Common
Hexproof
3/3

CG09 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Starfish Common
Green mana symbol: Regenerate (The next time this creature would be destroyed this turn, it isn’t. Instead tap it, remove all damage from it, and remove it from combat.)
2/2

CG10 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Homarid Warrior Common
Trample
4/4

CG11 Green mana symbol
Creature — Merfolk Warrior Common
Vigilance
1/2

CG12 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Instant Common
Target creature gains +1/+1 until end of turn for each Submerged land you control.

CG13 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Instant Common
Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn.
Draw a card.

CG14 4 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Search your library for 2 land cards and put them onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library.
Affinity for Submerged lands (This spell costs 1 mana symbol less to cast for each Submerged land you control.)

CG15 Green mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Target player sacrifices an artifact or enchantment.

CG16 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Reveal the top card of your library. If it is a land or creature, put it into your hand.
Draw a card.

CG17 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains +1/+1, trample and vigilance.

CG18 Green mana symbol
Enchantment — Aura Common
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gains trample.
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, enchanted creature gains +1/+1 until end of turn.

Colourless:

Spoiler:
CA01 3 mana symbol
Artifact Common
Tap symbol: Return target land you control to your hand.

CA02 2 mana symbol
Artifact Common
When CA02 enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Tap symbol: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.

CA03 1 mana symbol
Artifact Creature — Golem Common
CA03 enters the battlefield tapped.
1/1

CA04 3 mana symbol
Artifact Creature — Golem Common
If CA04 attacked during your last turn, it doesn’t untap during your untap step.
3/3

CA05 2 mana symbol
Artifact — Equipment Common
Equip 1 mana symbol
Equipped creature gains +1/+1.
Waterfall — When a Submerged land enters the battlefield under your control, equipped creature gains +1/+1 until end of turn.

CL01 — Erewif Temple
Land — Submerged Common
Tap symbol: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.
White mana symbol, Tap symbol: You gain 2 life.

CL02 — Whirlpool
Land — Submerged Common
Tap symbol: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.
Blue mana symbol, Tap symbol: Return target creature you control to its owners hand.

CL03 — Unhallowed Waters
Land — Submerged Common
Tap symbol: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.
Black mana symbol, Tap symbol: Target creature gains -1/-1 until end of turn.

CL04 — ?
Land — Submerged Common
Tap symbol: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.
Green mana symbol, Tap symbol: Target creature gains +1/+1 until end of turn.

CL05 — Steamvent
Land — Submerged Common
Tap symbol: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.
Red mana symbol, Tap symbol: CL05 — Steamvent deals 1 damage to target creature or player.

Basic Lands:

Spoiler:
Plains
Basic Land — Submerged Plains Common

Plains
Basic Land — Submerged Plains Common

Plains
Basic Land — Submerged Plains Common

Plains
Basic Land — Plains Common

Island
Basic Land — Submerged Island Common

Island
Basic Land — Submerged Island Common

Island
Basic Land — Island Common

Island
Basic Land — Submerged Island Common

Swamp
Basic Land — Submerged Swamp Common

Swamp
Basic Land — Submerged Swamp Common

Swamp
Basic Land — Submerged Swamp Common

Swamp
Basic Land — Swamp Common

Mountain
Basic Land — Submerged Mountain Common

Mountain
Basic Land — Submerged Mountain Common

Mountain
Basic Land — Submerged Mountain Common

Mountain
Basic Land — Mountain Common

Forest
Basic Land — Submerged Forest Common

Forest
Basic Land — Submerged Forest Common

Forest
Basic Land — Submerged Forest Common

Forest
Basic Land — Forest Common

Spoiler:

Thu, 2012-07-05 19:38
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

CW17's already covered by Arrest. Also, Magic uses contractions (i.e. can't).

I've reservations about CW13 at Chaos Symbol. Seems more Blue mana symbol to me.

CU01 should have more than one Blue mana symbol in its cost. Blue doesn't have easy access to fatties.

I think CU02 has a typo - shouldn't it be "puts the top two cards of his or her library into their graveyard"?

CU03 needs a rarity increase. Blue shouldn't be getting recursive deck-stacking at Chaos Symbol.

CU05's effect is OOC. (Firebreathing has almost exclusively belonged to red.)

CU15 needs the word "owners'" wedged between those last two words. This is because if they opt to bounce lands they don't own, the lands will go back to their owners' hands anyway.

Sun, 2012-07-08 02:08
ArcAngle

Thank you for the comments JC.

1) Arrest prevents blocking. CW17 doesn't, which I think is a significant difference.

2) I'll add your note about CW13 to the file and watch it carefully during playtesting. Would WW and prevent 1 be a common?

3) CU01 may be fat, but it is already overcosted. I was going to leave it with 1 U to make it easier to splash in limited.

4) CU02 does have a typo. WotC need to make Mill a keyword ability.

5) Blue has had recuring deck-stacking at common before: Information Dealer. I'm going to add an activation cost of U to its ability and watch it in playtesting.

6) The OOC firebreathing was deliberate. I'd tried to put a loose cycle of out of "blue" abilities on the 05s and I thought fire-breathing would work for blue, since it does get it rarely.

7) I will fix the wording on CU15.

Any more?
I would like your opinion of the Affinity for Submerged land cycle as well.

Spoiler:

Sat, 2012-07-07 07:44
jolykj
jolykj's picture

Affinity for Submerged land cycle
White, blue and black seems balance nothing here.
Black and White look atlot a like each other you might want to chance that.
Red should deal 4 damage instead of 5.
green is like the green Titan the best might wan to chance that also.

is there any tokens at all in your set?

you non-basic submerged land are way to good for common could easily be rare.

Sun, 2012-07-08 02:11
ArcAngle

Jolykj,

I'm reducing the power of the red and green affinity cards, taking your suggestion on the red and limiting the green to basic lands and having them goto your hand instead of play.

CG03 makes green 1/1 Sponge creature tokens, but I don't have the card for it in the set yet. I'm also thinking of making the uncommon green Waterfall creature produce those tokens.

I'm going to scale back the non-basic lands a bit; Halve the numbers and limit the blue one to your own creatures.

Spoiler: