Mirrodin Pure Community Set Design

Login or register to post comments
continued...
Fri, 2012-04-27 17:55
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

It's not that difficult.

Look up cards with the name of the two characters in Gatherer and then do the same for flavor text. Gather those cards together and make a few functional reprints, color shifts, cycles etc of those cards.

Moreover, add flavor text to represent them in certain cards. A great for instance would be Ornathoper --- in this block, I think having flavor text from Urza should have been mandatory considering the Ornathoper is his invention and we're dealing with a plane he's directly influenced.

This isn't rocket science :-| IMHO it's all basic elements of understanding what it takes to make a really awesome set.

Fri, 2012-04-27 19:15
Kagerowrs

Lighthammer - Oh, you meant flavor text.

For Ornathopter, we have another problem - Ornathopter isn't really in Mirrodin. Its from Core Set.

That said, Sheoldred shares many similarity with Yawgmoth, and probably only one who don't despise Yawgmoth's way.

For Urza... We can't put it on Mirrodin because even Venser hardly knows about him. - Karn is the only one. So we have to do... Something with Karn. Preferably something for Venser.

Fri, 2012-04-27 21:03
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Alright on Urza – We wouldn’t be able to do much with Urza simply because no Mirrans have any idea who he is and the extent of his actual influence was creating Karn. Karn, Venser, and presumably the Praetors are the only ones who would likely know his existence. Ironically, Mirrans don’t even know who Karn is. Venser had to drag Koth along relunctantly. Anyways, with that said, I think that we could do some cards that are throwbacks whether remakes or functional reprints as easter eggs. Not only as a throwback to origins but also as a statement of the similarities between the Phyrexian conflict then and now. Kind of an acknowledgement of the eternal struggle against Phyrexia. I wouldn’t do flavor text involving this unless it is a quote from Karn.

On Yawgmoth – This is much more doable as all New Phyrexia recognizes Yawgmoth if only to recognize his failure. I think including his in flavor text makes perfect sense especially since the recent failure could be used for comparison. Jin-Gitaxius/Urabrask could quip a quote at the other Praetors that they are repeating Yawgmoth’s mistakes, etc.



Ok, so I have been thinking about how each color and tribe should be handled and the strategy we should use to continue the designs. First off, I am not interested in creating any further divided “factions” whether directly or indirectly. If anything, all Mirrans should come off as working in tandem. Although the Phyrexian’s hierarchy is crumbling as we speak, translating this directly in card design as a whole is problematic and most likely won’t mesh or feel right in actual play. We can use flavor text and color schemes to do this; maybe a few cards.

Mirrans

White
– When the Razor Fields fell it scattered the leonins and many fell to affliction. This also cut off the Loxodons but the survivors were able to hold up at Bladehold, and Auriok community for a last stand against Elesh Norn.

Leonin and Aurioks should offer equipment support, but something beyond simply bonuses for being equipped. Although, since all three races are holed up together they can really all support the same things. Additionally, there should be some 1/1 Soldier tokens and/or 2/2 cat tokens to go help a battle cry theme as that gets better with more creatures (which is why Hero of Bladehold is so good). The Golem splicers will also assist in this theme.


Blue
The Vedalken hierarchy is run amok with the phyrexian infection as Jin-Gintaxius uses the Pantopticon and Lumingrid as his main base for experimentations. This affects the Neuroks greatly as well since they rose to rule the Vedalken following the original series. Phyrexian oil is being pumped into the Quicksilver Sea forcing the remaining Vedalkens and Neuroks to move further inland.
The blue strategy will focus mostly on metalcraft and charge counter support as the two races regroup inland using artifacts as their main source for sustenance, magic, and fighting. We should have some definitive charge counter support in blue that is not proliferate (being the Mirran side).

Black
All the Mephidross has been turned over to Phyrexia, thus all the Nim should be Phyrexian aligned. Morioks have been afflicted but still fighting. I honestly have no idea how they can be portrayed, they are blind for pete’s sake. A better version of the Moriok reanimator that is constructed worthy is a good way to go.

Red
Vulshok lead a heartened resistance against the Phyrexians and have an unspoken truce with Urabrask and his Phyrexians in The Forge. Urabrask turned a blind eye to the resistance hiding there and the Mirrans don’t attack them on sight in return. The Krark Clan has remained untouched in their hidden tunnel system.

I agree that Vulshok need more identity. The forge metal so I think that we need to figure out a way to use that in card mechanics. Reforge is a new keyword we are using so we can maybe find a way to use that on a Vulshok card, or at least synergy. Remember that reminder text can paint pictures too. Anyways, Vulshok should certainly be among the “splicers” in our Mirrodin forging Golems, maybe Koth’s Hammer tribe. Goblins should use push the battle cry theme too support a kind of Kuldotha deck strategy. Metalcraft should be biggest in red due to the forge and the fact that red is least tainted by the Phyrexians.


Green
Due to Glissa’s involvement in the war, the Viridians take the greatest hit in the battle. With Melira’s help the Tel’jelad and Sylvoks ally to push back the Phyrexians and kill Vorinclex.

Due to Melira’s cleansing we should have the few infect cards be non-sentient beings as all sentient beings would be “cured”. Although it might be cool to do some cards that start out afflicted and then cure themselves. For example, ETB with -1/-1 and then have activated abilities with removing counters as the cost. Or having infect, but metalcraft causes removal of infect. This would also allow players to play the card in an infect deck or non. It should be clear in the card designs that green won. Green should have an introduction of battle cry but we need to do it a way that makes sense for green. Ezuri’s resistance would certainly benefit from it. Green should have some good metalcraft themes to signify their victory as well as golem splicers. I think green could have maybe one card that removes poison counters in some way, but only if done right.


Phyrexians

New Phyrexia
With Vorinclex gone, Elesh Norn and Sheoldred continue their plans as best they can. Elesh Norn’s forces invaded the Leonin city and caused their retreat but failed to fully compleate them. Shoeldred has control of the Mephidross and uses it to launch all attacks on Mirrodin (Elesh Norn also used it to attack the Leonin city).

The black and white will be the main infect strategy for Mirrodin Pure, although a few green and blue cards will be there. New Phyrexia had an issue with putting infect in all colors thus spreading it thin and a good infect deck was difficult to make. We can easily amend that by including one or two common artifact infect cards thus rounding out each color that way. Reanimation should be emphasized as Phyrexia reuses bodies and parts. Waste not!


The Progress Engine
Jin-Gintaxius is greatly disappointed with the way that the other Praetors handle matters. His scientific approach just doesn’t mesh with Shoeldred or Vorinclex’s gain by power methods. When Vorinclex is defeated this fulfills his warnings. When Shoeldred and Elesh Norn decide to continue operations as planned he ceases contact not wanted to waste his time with their doomed efforts. Using the Lumingrid as his base of operation, he turns to his own plans for his “Great Synthesis”: rigorous research on Mirran body structure, recruiting unafflicted agents, and pumping oil into the water system.

Blue will be minor in infect and have cards that push proliferation and other methods of poisoning. Additionally, it can have a fair amount of non-infect cards; maybe milling?

Also, see this.


The Quiet Furnace
Urabrask is impressed with the Mirrodin resistance and considers the Mirrans flesh/metal bodies to be leading to perfection. When Vorinclex is defeated he turns his eye to allow safe passage for the survivors and resistance, especially in their gained ability to reforge themselves. He also defects from the rest of Phyrexia considering that Mirrans may be the way to perfection. Although he does not think that their current form will do, he is willing to watch and wait until the right time to gain perfection.

We may have a few cards but for the most part, I think flavor text is our delivery method for these guys. I don’t even think we need to design a Urabrask but we can still brainstorm ideas. He is still Phyrexian aligned but just doesn’t consider the Mirrans a target at the moment.


A couple random notes:

Living Weapon – I think we should move this into Mirran territory as well. It works all too well with everything Mirran as it boosts equipment themes, artifact themes, and battle cry themes. Although, I do have issues with the whole germ token thing. Unfortunately, that makes it difficult to argue the flavor behind it. Thoughts?

Split cards – We need to be able to use what we put in each color to tell the story about what is happening. Split cards forces our hand against doing that. Although, I initially loved the idea I think we need to kill it. Especially since it is only one cycle. I think the idea has more place in something like Ravnica or Alara.

New Phyrexian card shifts – Besides the ones we “reprint” I think I see Lighthammer’s point about what we want to take from New Phyrexia. Certain cards are important and we need our own takes on it if we don’t reprint. Puresteel Paladin for instance. He defines an equipment based deck which is something we need. I already mentioned shifting splicers but making them Mirran aligned. There are other cards we may need to do though, like what is our Vapor Snag? Or Mutagenic Growth?

Please take a look at the set file and start making new ideas to add based off of my comments above. We can focus where Mirrans are the strongest- Red mana symbolGreen mana symbol but you can talk about anything if you have something to add.

Some of mine:

Spoiler:
Sentinel of the Hammer 3 mana symbolA 2/R hybrid mana symbol.
Artifact Creature – Human Warrior Chaos Symbol
Reforge 4 mana symbolA 2/R hybrid mana symbol.
3/2

Afflicted of the Tel’jelad 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature – Elf Warrior Blue mana symbol
~ ETB with a -1/-1 counter on it.
1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol, remove a -1/-1 counter from ~: Destroy target artifact.
3/3

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Sat, 2012-04-28 05:24
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

Some well thought ideas there Guitarweeps. I'm probably gonna need to re-read this post and think about a few major aspects of it.

A few thoughts (in no particular order) come to mind:

Some of the New Phyrexia cards that still seem to serve the overall purpose of the block but are Phyrexian themed could simply be functional reprints. Vapor Snag for instance, could be reprinted as Quicksilver Pull (yea, bad name, but it makes the point). I'm unsure if the mechanic needs to be changed at all.

I'm not sure if we defined Puresteel much yet, but it seems to me that we could make a secondary equip cost for these items as "Remove all -1/-1 counters from target creature you are equipping to" (better wording needed) and make them either immune to having counters placed on them or (maybe even as a vertical cycle) immune to having -1/-1 counters placed on them (IE Unommon Equipment would make them immune to all counters and Rare would make them immune to -1/-1 counters).

As far as Neurok goes, the one main thing I should toss out is the story should follow Kara Vrist on some level in regards to Mirrian Blue. She is a Neurok who is following the teachings of Melira in the story. This block certainly paired colors as enemy colors largely on many levels.

WB - Elish Norn maybe?
UR - Nothing defined as far as I know
BG - Phyrexian
RW - Bladeold
GU - Melira's group

I wonder if those groupings shouldn't be highlighted more for cross compatibly ?

BTW --- could you please remind me what Reforge does?

PS --- I think I'll be able to think more along the lines of Mirrodin after all the Avacyn theorcrafting is done. My brain is totally in Angel and Demons mode. I can't tell you how hard it is to not suggest Angel and Demon sounding card names right now :-|

Sat, 2012-04-28 09:46
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Flavorwise, only Melira can remove the infection.

Puresteel is (tentative definition) a metal derived of the Mirran darksteel mixed and enchanted while mixed with etherium (from Tezz). The result is an indestructible metal which repels the infection. The reason that Venser is able to use to cure Karn is because he is able to teleport it into Karn's body. He can't do that for everyone because he is dead.

The Quest for Karn
much like he teleports his own heart into Karn to save him in the real story. We might be able to use that too. Maybe the procedure works to clear the infection but stops Karn's heart? So he teleports his own heart in to save Karn?
I am opposed to it removing counters simply because we can't have too much ammo against infect without killing it completely as a deck type to run in constructed and limited. Infect is a hard enough strategy to rely on without putting too much ammo in that kills it.

Reforge came from the idea that Mirrodin should have a new mechanic in Mirrodin Pure. What we were trying to hit on was that their desparation caused them to turn to resourcefullness. Thus:

Reforge <cost> (<cost>, sacrifice an artifact: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Reforge only as a sorcery and only from the graveyard.)

It can only be used on artifacts although we have a 1 damage damage spell that runs the wording, not the actual keyword. Obviously, we are also running hybrid 2/C colored artifacts too.

On another note, something I meant to put above. I think that the Phyrexian planeswalker idea should be scrapped. It hurts me to say so... but I think that it doesn't fit and I have kept it in just because I really wanted to do it. I think that the correct design decision is to kill it as this is not the setting for it.

Kara Vrist is perfect; somehow I read over each other color but not blue? Either way she helps connect the blue resistance with the rest of the Mirrans. I wouldn't focus so much on groupings of "people" so much as a strategy type. I know that WotC makes sure during limited testing that each color pairing whether allied or enemy has clear strategies to draft. We should keep that in mind and in many cases this will line up with story-driven pairings.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Sun, 2012-04-29 19:41
Ayxmirdyrer

@Guitarweeps - On your living weapon note; I think it would be acceptable, with Urabrask's help, that the Mirrans have living weapons.

How about something like this for your Moriok resistance:
Moriok Survivor 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature - Human Rogue Blue mana symbol
Protection from black, deathtouch.
2/2
He fights the horrors of Sheoldred alone.

EDITED rarity for Guitarweeps.

Sat, 2012-04-28 23:49
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Love the card! Should be uncommon though. I really don't want to start saying Urabrask is helping them though... hmm...

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Sun, 2012-04-29 16:15
Carn13
Carn13's picture

But inadvertently as may be, Urabrask is from what I can see. (Hey, that rhymed!) Maybe there should be some equipment without a watermark, or with a special Urabrask one for living weapons that are not totally Phyrexian but not Mirran-designed.

Also, Lighthammer: If we go the enemy-color route, is it possible that the Quiet Furnace may be covertly dealing with the Neurok or Vedalken, or maybe even Jin-Gitaxias, for the missing U/R faction?

Sun, 2012-04-29 16:33
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

/random thought

I wonder how useful a "Protection from Deathtouch" mechanic would be.

Sun, 2012-04-29 16:39
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

I think that we could figure a way to argue it from the Quiet Furnace, not sure yet. I don't think that we should do watermarkless cards even if it makes sense. The main reason that I was hoping to have Mirran living weapon was to give it extra room and allow use of hybrid mana.

I think it would have to be "Protection from creatures with deathtouch". I wouldn't suggest using something like that just because deathtouch shows up only 1-3 times per set.

EDIT: For now, we will go ahead and design Mirran living weapon cards. We can always change that around in development.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Mon, 2012-04-30 07:56
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

RE: "Protection to Deathtouch"

Pardon that Random thought --- it was kind of me just thinking a lot. It's such a specific trait. I was thinking along the color pie to think who I'd feel would be a good candidate to have something anti-deathtouchish in the broader perspective of magic (not necessarily just for this set).

You're right, of course. This set and block isn't a great place to fiddle with such a mechanic, it was more just thinking out loud, lie I sometimes do.

RE: Living Weapons

I haven't commented a bunch about living weapons myself yet, because I'm having a hard time picturing them in a place where Mirrian forces are prevailing. I wanted to offer up better insight since you've been talking about living weapons for a large chunk of this page.

Honestly, the biggest argument I have against them is the details of what living weapon does. It's that germ token that I don't like. That's the big deal breaker for me. The germ token screams Phyrexia to me.

If we really want Living Weapons here, I'd propose that we flesh out the sub plot a little more to make it make more sense as a Mirrian plot device or as a Phyrexian doomsday weapon of sorts. If it wasn't in Mirrodin Besieged, I'd be all for pitching the wording entirely and making it more Mirrian sounding but having it attach to a spark token or something instead of a germ token.

RE: Google Docs

Guitarweeps, if you haven't been following, there's some really good reasons to toss stuff on Google Drive now. You can now have the current working file in one central location and share it to people so they can open it on their computers.

I'll post an example once Google finishes uploading things :-|

Mon, 2012-04-30 11:18
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

So we can have an MSE set file up there?

And yeah, that is what is giving me a hard time about living weapon too...

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Mon, 2012-04-30 12:27
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

RE: Google Drive.

Here's a quick summary of how it works:

1. You have a folder on your HDD that is designated as your Google Drive Folder.
2. You have a program running in the background called Google Drive.
3. When you place files in that folder, they are automatically uploaded to Google Drive.
4. You can open and use those files on your local computer or, if there is a google doc program that supports it, through the website (PS You can develope programs to work through Google Docs too, might be a nifty project for the MSE team).
5. You can share those files to other persons who have Google Accounts.

Stuff I don't know for sure:
1. What happens when two people have the same file open?
A. Does it open the file locally and then sync it when its closed.
B. Does it open the file remotely and save edits live.

2. What happens when you save?
A. Does it upload a second copy of the file if it detects for the person who doesn't own it?
B. Does it use a timeline feature?
C. Does it sync all work (doubtful for unsupported file types).

There's a few questions I DO have about how it specifically works, but it for nothing else, it looks like something potentially really helpful.

PS the Google EULA does state the owner retains all IP rights. Just putting that out there since that's always an important element for these kinds of projects.

RE: Living Weapon

Glad we're on the same page on that one.

Mon, 2012-04-30 13:28
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

I say we try it out and do a test run. Ill have a parent copy if things get funky.

I am going to stay open to the idea of Jordan living weapon to get design ideas. If the flavor can't be explained we will have to scrap them though. I would like to use hybrid management to expand its use. Can't always get what you want in design though.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Mon, 2012-04-30 15:40
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

I'm actually still waiting for Google Drive to push all my data =(.

I would have linked the current file as an open file by now but there's no way to prioritize files for upload sadly.

Send me a PM when you get a chance with your google name and I'll add you so we can tinker.

Mon, 2012-04-30 16:07
Kagerowrs

We can just mirror Living Weapon by alternating set Scheme, like Wizard did in Zendikar (Zendikar - Worldwake Block and Rise of Eldrazi Block.) or Innistrad (Innistrad - Dark Ascension Block and Avacyn Restored Block.)

Original Scars of the Mirrodin is made by SoM -> Mirrodin Besieged -> New Phyrexia, making a single block. But if we alter it to SoM -> Mirrodin Besieged / Complete a block then go to Mirrodin Pure block, we can refresh many themes we had to inherit from last set, which was heavily favored to Phyrexia.

Or we can just turn give equipments the ability become a selected creature in condition like Glint Hawk Idol.

Mon, 2012-04-30 16:28
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

I had suggested sometime last page I think to consider ending the block and opening a new block kind of like Lorwyn and Shadowmoor.

I do kind of also find myself wondering if the events of New Phyrexia actually end at a good enough point that starting a new set entirely to "recapture" New Phyrexia wouldn't be a horrible idea.

In both cases though, that kind of goes against the main idea of the project, which was to do a "What if" scenario.

The problems I feel like we're having with locking down elements of the block are seemingly many of the same reasons Wizards went the direction they did too.

Telling the story and properly illustrating the elements that need to be demonstrated are making it difficult for me to envision a well rounded block keeping it at 175, but I even question if bumping up to 249 will give us the proper room to hit all the notes that need to be hit to make the set truly awesome.

Mon, 2012-04-30 23:05
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Hmmm... well I want what is best for the set. I suppose that in the "what if" realm that it woudl not be unlikely for WotC to have a made a large Mirrodin Pure if that was what was needed. Maybe I should expand my "what if" scenerio to include whether or not the set could have been expanded. After all, the only reason that New Phyrexia became 175 was because it needed an extra 20 uncommons to support the phyrexian mana theme. This made the set completely out of balance in rarity in comparison to other sets. They did this solely because phyrexian mana needed it. That actually leads me to believe that if they had done Mirrodin Pure that it wouldn't have been 175 (since that number came later in design/development). I think that leaving the set size more flexible to ensure we say what needs to be said is a better approach then I earlier envisioned.

What would you all think of a Mirran psuedo-mirror of living weapon involving pairing creatures? For instance:

Myr Slivblade 2 mana symbol
Artifact Creature- Myr (Equipment???) Chaos Symbol
EFFECTNAME 1 mana symbol (1 mana symbol: Pair this creature to target creature you control that is not paired. EFFECTNAME only as a sorcery.)
As long as ~ is paired with another creature, both get +1/+1 OR Creatures paired with ~ get +1/+1 (like an equipment)
1/1

I actually came up with this forever ago, on equipment creatures that attached, but abandoned it due to the rules impossibility (supposedly...)

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Tue, 2012-05-01 00:00
HerzinthTheDark
HerzinthTheDark's picture

That seems a bit too similar to soulbond. Especially since the wording would activate soulbond should you EFFECTNAME a soulbond unit.

Tue, 2012-05-01 03:10
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

So here's the current Mirrodin Pure MSE file on Google Docs.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BzdmNIhF8D4IX1hPbldKVDVQOUk

Its open to all who has the link. Try adding it to your google drive and lets see what happens.

Tue, 2012-05-01 03:19
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Thanks. I don't have time to look at it now but I am interested to see how this works.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Tue, 2012-05-01 15:50
Kagerowrs

Can't we just sweep their type when we need it?

Myr Silverblade 3 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Myr Equipment Common
Equipped Creature gets +1/+1 and protection from infect.
Trenshift - 2 mana symbol (2 mana symbol: If this is creature, it becomes an artifact. Equip it onto target creature, if this is not a creature, it becomes a creature.)

Tue, 2012-05-01 18:29
Makuta Miserix
Makuta Miserix's picture

We may have to change the wording so that when it would become a creature from equipment, it would unattach, since otherwise it would have the awkward moment of being a creature that is attached to another creature.

Wed, 2012-05-02 04:17
Ayxmirdyrer

On the flavor of Living Weapon: Why doesn't Urabrask defecting justify Mirrans having living weapons? He is the forgemaster, which I assume means he makes the tools of Phyrexia.

Sorry to reiterate this again, it's just that people seem to be overlooking this in my posts.

Wed, 2012-05-02 04:30
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

That is one option. I just don't really think that Urabrask woudl defect AND then support the Mirrans in warfare. I think he would just not be hostile.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Wed, 2012-05-02 04:32
Kagerowrs

@Ayxmirdyrer - While that is true, major problem comes from 'Black Germ'. It feels... Very strange to go with Mirran, simply because it feels infectious.

For creature equipping creature, why not? We can make it interact like banding or something...

Wed, 2012-05-02 04:39
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

...or like pairing?

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Thu, 2012-05-03 00:45
Ayxmirdyrer

I guess we could use something else, like maybe Myr tokens or something?

Thu, 2012-05-03 14:55
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

Why not try something a little different.

Artifact Creature - Equipment

The Artifact is a creature in its own right, but when it's wield as a weapon, it does neat stuff.

That just sounds like a natural extension of living weapon without being living weapon. Not to mention, although technically its never been done before, it's not really a 'new' element.

Thu, 2012-05-03 15:24
Kagerowrs

@Lighthammer - Remember Comprehensive Rule 301.5c?

301.5c An Equipment that's also a creature can't equip a creature. An Equipment that loses the subtype "Equipment" can't equip a creature. An Equipment can't equip itself. An Equipment that equips an illegal or nonexistent permanent becomes unattached from that permanent but remains on the battlefield. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)

That was the reason why we needed to find different way. Artifact Creature - Equipment won't going to cut.

Sat, 2012-05-05 20:59
Ayxmirdyrer

Ok, so it kind of feels like beating the dead horse at this point, but in the New Phyrexia storyline, Urabrask shows sympathy to the Mirran resistance. Whatever his reasons, he is doing what he can to prevent the rest of the Phyrexian factions from discovering this. So, what happens when the Phyrexians are losing instead of winning? Urabrask would want to survive as Mirrodin is reclaimed, so why not openly aid the winning faction?

As for the living weapon, maybe we need to make a variant(0/0 colorless myr?), and somehow denote which one is which?
or maybe colorless germs for the Mirran ones? Though I could see leaving it to represent that they are acquired from the Phyrexians.

Sat, 2012-05-05 21:13
Kagerowrs

@Ayxmirdyrer - That would need to make new 'Living Weapon' variant in same set because Living Weapon keyword it self includes '0/0 black germ token' for god-knows-what sake.

What I was thinking is this. Let's say...

Urabrask got a Alloy Myr, he liked it. It was good design. (Remember one of the flavor text from MBS) But he wanted better. So. He decided to give something else.

Alloy Myr 3 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Myr Uncommon
Tap symbol: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
2/2
With or without witnesses, the suns continued their prismatic dance.

He modified in this way.

Alloy Myr 3 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Myr Uncommon
Tap symbol: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
1 mana symbol: Alloy Myr becomes an Artifact - Equipment with Equipped creature has ""Tap symbol: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.", then equip it onto target creature, if Alloy Myr is unequipped, it becomes a creature.
2/2
With or without witnesses, the suns continued their prismatic dance.

OR

Alloy Myr 3 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Myr Uncommon
Tap symbol: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Equipped creature has "Tap symbol: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."
Living Gear 1 mana symbol (1 mana symbol: This creature becomes an Artifact - Equipment, then equip it onto target creature. If it is unequipped, it becomes a creature.)
2/2
With or without witnesses, the suns continued their prismatic dance.

That is what I was thinking.

Sun, 2012-05-06 01:18
Ayxmirdyrer

That was a problem I had already considered, I figured that it just wouldn't work like that, though.

I like it, the second one could work; but we need a better keyword that doesn't sound like we're just ripping off the original mechanic, even though we pretty much are. It would also be easier for mnemonic reasons to have them be different.

It is interesting that these start off as creatures and have to be converted into weapons, sort of the opposite of living weapon. I am trying to come up with a flavorful name for the mechanic:
Rig is a synonym for equip, which is kind of what I see these things doing, if you have a better one, please suggest it.

My Attempt
Alloy Myr 3 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Myr Blue mana symbol
Tap symbol: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Equipped creature has "Tap symbol: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."
Rig 1 mana symbol (1 mana symbol: This creature becomes an Equipment Artifact equipping target creature you control. If it becomes unequipped, it becomes a creature.)
2/2
The suns' prismatic dance continues, as if nothing had ever happened.

I had to change the flavor text to match the set. It does raise some interesting questions though, your original just says target creature, was that intentional?

Sun, 2012-05-06 01:36
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

@Kagerowrs

Rules in design don't mean a lot. The goal of design is to determine an interesting mechanic that changes game play to make the game more compelling and interesting. Dwelling on rules isn't productive unless you're observing past mistakes to ensure they aren't repeated.

In development, you figure out how exactly to make it work.

That being said, no doubt some sort of keyword exempted these cards from that rule would be required, or reworking of the comprehensive rules (at least as it relates to this set / block since we can't obvious edit the rules universally).

Beyond that though, its noteworthy to point that my main interest in said suggest was to somewhat replicate Bludgeon Brawl. inside individual cards.

Consequently, I find Bludgeon Brawl to be a very fun and interesting card, but I have yet to make a deck I am really satisfied with that uses it.

Sun, 2012-05-06 02:12
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Again, I am not convinced that Mirrans can do living weapon but I want to go ahead and design them. Feel free to design others cards as well based of the noted ideas. I think once we have a number of cards that show off what we need for Mirrans it will be clearer what hinders and hurts it then when we have very little showing. I am going to check out the google.docs thing hopefully this weekend. Sorry, RL has been really crazy these past few weeks. But we need to start focusing on designing some cards based off what we have come up to already. And I am not just talking about the equipment ideas.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Sun, 2012-05-06 03:02
Kagerowrs

@Ayxmirdyrer - It wasn't intentional, guess I missed it.

As you well know, that version of Alloy Myr has Paradise Mantle built on it.

Lets try on Rig keyword Ayxmirdyrer said.

Card name is random.

Spoiler:
Batterskull Replacement 5 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Construct Mythic Rare
Vigilance, lifelink
Equipped creature gets +4/+4 and has vigilance and lifelink.
Rig 5 mana symbol (5 mana symbol: This creature becomes an Equipment Artifact equipping target creature you control. If it becomes unequipped, it becomes a creature.)
3 mana symbol: Return ~ to owner's hand.
4/4
(Based on Batterskull, obviously.)

Immolating Firehound 2 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Hound Common
Red mana symbol: ~ or equipped creature gets +1/+0.
Rig 1 mana symbol (1 mana symbol: This creature becomes an Equipment Artifact equipping target creature you control. If it becomes unequipped, it becomes a creature.)
1/1
(Based on Immolating Souleater)

Klin Battler 3 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Construct Common
Equipped creature has "Whenever it attacks, it gains +3/+0 until end of turn."
Rig 1 mana symbol (1 mana symbol: This creature becomes an Equipment Artifact equipping target creature you control. If it becomes unequipped, it becomes a creature.)
0/3
(Based on Klin Walker)

AEther Lasher 6 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Construct Rare
AEther Lasher's power and toughness is equal to number of Swamp you control.
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each Swamp you control.
Rig 4 mana symbol (1 mana symbol: This creature becomes an Equipment Artifact equipping target creature you control. If it becomes unequipped, it becomes a creature.)
X/X
(Based on Lashwrithe)

Puresteel Adapter 4 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Construct Common?
When Puresteel Adapter enters the battlefield or dies, you may search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Whenever equipped creature dies, you may search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Rig 2 mana symbol (2 mana symbol: This creature becomes an Equipment Artifact equipping target creature you control. If it becomes unequipped, it becomes a creature.)
2/2
(Based on Mycosynth Wellspring)

Some are direct conversion from NPH Artifact or Artifact Creature.
Some are also, direct conversion of NPH Living weapon equipment.

Sat, 2012-05-12 05:35
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

I put a card titled "test" in the google drive. Can everyone see that? If it works then this is a pretty awesome setup...

Anyways, once we have that confirmed it is time to do some designs. Still plan on starting with the red and green cards for now.

At the moment we are designing Mirran aligned living weapon cards as well as the other ideas we have had. Later in development, we will decide which route to take. Just brainstorm the ideas and get them out there.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Sat, 2012-05-26 07:58
Lighthammer
Lighthammer's picture

Whats the URL for it ?

Thu, 2012-06-14 06:52
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Goodness, sorry everyone. RL had me quite busy with a new baby and traveling a ton for work (a lot of credit to my wife for dealing with everything herself). Plus I was still working on Lumehaven previews and such. Excuses aside, I want to keep working here.

@Lighthammer - I used the file you had linked to above. But I don't see it in there now? I must have done something wrong maybe? I don't know. The point of the drive is that anyone can make real time updates to the file right?

@Kagerowrs - Considering that Batterskull is considered a mistake, we wont need a replacement. I like the concept of Immolating Firehound though.

@Kagerowrs/Ayxmirdyrer - I think the concept of rig works overall, but it seems strange to do it here just because living weapon was just used in the last set. I would think that it would be a better mechanic to use somewhere it can flourish and shine on its own. What do you think? Either way, we can come up with both some living weapon and rig designs and just flesh out the best move in development.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Tue, 2012-06-19 22:22
Kagerowrs

@Guitarweeps - If we follows the example of Avacyn Restored (Abandoning all keyword ability from last two set except Undying and add two new keyword instead) - I think putting rig in Mirrodin Pure would not have problem - And kick out Living Weapon (If Urabrask said 'Okay, we are not friend anymore, go away' to Phyrexia in our story line, no one is left to make them anyway.) out.

Wed, 2012-06-20 22:30
Magician_of_the...

Lotus Myr
0
Lotus Myr enters the battlefield with 3 charge counters.
T, Remove a charge counter from Lotus Myr. Lose 1 life and add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

Homebrew Games Created:

~Alchemy + Expansion
~Alchemy Micro
~Frag + Expansions
~Terminator

Decks Currently Being Run

~R/B Vampires [Standard]
~W/R Angels [Standard
~G/G Ramp to Karn [Legacy]
~W/U Humans-Spirits [Standard]

Wed, 2012-06-20 22:36
Magician_of_the...

Oh wow. We are a long ways away from that quick challenge. I like rig, it is a good sub for living weapon.

Homebrew Games Created:

~Alchemy + Expansion
~Alchemy Micro
~Frag + Expansions
~Terminator

Decks Currently Being Run

~R/B Vampires [Standard]
~W/R Angels [Standard
~G/G Ramp to Karn [Legacy]
~W/U Humans-Spirits [Standard]

Thu, 2012-06-21 02:57
Ayxmirdyrer

Ok, so I just had a couple of ideas for Phyrexian cards. These ideas are based on using poison as a dangerous resource.

Glimpse of Horror 3 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Sorcery Blue mana symbol
Each player may draw a card, if they do, that player gets a poison counter.
The things I saw there... but I think I found their weakness.
—Vy Covalt, Neurok agent

Tainted Knowledge 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Sorcery Red mana symbol
Draw a card, then you get a poison counter. You may repeat this process any number of times.
"The vedalken seek knowledge? I will give them knowledge."
- Sheoldred, The Whispering One

Ad Nauseam for Phyrexians.

Thu, 2012-06-21 03:01
Inanimate
Head Moderator
Inanimate's picture

Tainted Knowledge = draw nine cards in any other format besides limited. Yowch!

Thu, 2012-06-21 10:59
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

I like the idea but we need to balance it carefully since playing in any other format can make them OP. Also, it tips in your favor if you are playing infect.
Glimpse of Horror - would need to be at least 2-3 cards to be worth that cost. Drawing one card is usually 2 mana symbol or Blue mana symbol plus an effect.
Tainted Knowledge - Way too good. Maybe just a tutor?
Also not sure if allowing the opponent's in on it is good unless maybe it is a repeatable thing like an enchantment.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Thu, 2012-06-21 16:32
Magician_of_the...

Tainted Knowledge [2BB]
Sorcery [Rare]
Search your deck for a card, and put that card on top of your deck. Gain a poison counter.
"The vedalken seek knowledge? I will give them knowledge."
- Sheoldred, The Whispering One

EDIT:

Could we perhaps throw in a homage to Bosh, Iron Golem? I don't know how we would do it, but we got a reprint of Glissa, we have the fanmade Slobad, everyone forgets good ole Bosh.

Homebrew Games Created:

~Alchemy + Expansion
~Alchemy Micro
~Frag + Expansions
~Terminator

Decks Currently Being Run

~R/B Vampires [Standard]
~W/R Angels [Standard
~G/G Ramp to Karn [Legacy]
~W/U Humans-Spirits [Standard]

Thu, 2012-06-21 22:55
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Please don't double post. Edit the post if you are the last to post.

I am actually all for Bosh. I think I even have him in the skeleton as a maybe. That version of Tainted Knowledge is crazy worse than Diabolic Tutor...

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Fri, 2012-06-22 16:56
Magician_of_the...

my apologies, grand-master Guitarweeps. As for Bosh, it would have to be an artifact, perhaps a cycle of shrines like the Karn shrines of New Phyrexia. Bosh is dead. Died protecting the then Mirran Champions Glissa and Slobad.

UNLESS... we somehow find a way to semi retcon and someone reanimates him, or something.

As for Tainted Knowledge, maybe it IS a diabolic tutor with a poison counter or two tacked on. Two seems high though... And an obvious worse choice when there is a diabolic tutor RIGHT THERE. Maybe we decrease the mana cost by 1 colorless mana?

Massive Affliction 3BB
Sorcery [Rare or Mythic Rare]
Target opponent draws five cards and gains five poison counters.

FT: I....Am....Compleat!!!!

Homebrew Games Created:

~Alchemy + Expansion
~Alchemy Micro
~Frag + Expansions
~Terminator

Decks Currently Being Run

~R/B Vampires [Standard]
~W/R Angels [Standard
~G/G Ramp to Karn [Legacy]
~W/U Humans-Spirits [Standard]

Fri, 2012-06-22 23:36
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Well, Slobad is returning... it COULD be possible that he rebuilt Bosh. He loved Bosh quite a bit. But I was thinking more of a tribute than a new Bosh. The thing about the cycle of shrines is that nobody remembers Mirrodin as it was during that time except for Glissa, Slobad, and Karn.

I am not sure that making poison counters a drawback is good because it can be used in formats that don't have poison making it irrelevant.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Sat, 2012-06-23 02:09
Magician_of_the...

Hmmm.... Maybe he alone built a memorial to Bosh. So not a cycle, but perhaps a shrine none the less. We take the idea of the shrines, and make an artifact aligned one.

Shrine of Lost Saviors (Name WIP) [3]

Artifact (Rare or Mythic)

At the beginning of your upkeep or whenever you cast an artifact spell, put a charge counter on Shrine of Lost Saviors.

{3}, {T}, Sacrifice Shrine of Lost Saviors: Distribute that many +1/+1 counters between any number of permanents.

FT: "Glissa forget, Mirrodin forget. Slobad remember Bosh." - Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer

Just a thought, what happened to Raksha? He didn't die, so should we revive him as one of Whit's Champions?

Homebrew Games Created:

~Alchemy + Expansion
~Alchemy Micro
~Frag + Expansions
~Terminator

Decks Currently Being Run

~R/B Vampires [Standard]
~W/R Angels [Standard
~G/G Ramp to Karn [Legacy]
~W/U Humans-Spirits [Standard]