Requesting a small addition to the Planeswalker template [Adding a P/T box]

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Tue, 2011-03-15 20:57
Of_Nihility

Hello there,

I'm looking for a small template mod for the 3 / 4 ability planeswalker templates (linked below):

3 ability templates here: http://mtg.pifro.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1251
4 ability templates here: http://mtg.pifro.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=481

Right now, they have a box at the bottom right which is their starting loyalty counter amount, I would like to have this box as a Power / Toughness box and have a new box on the bottom left which would become the home for their starting loyalty counter amount.

I don't need either box to be formatted to auto put the "/" after a value is entered, if left open to having any character would be great thank you.

I'm not asking for it to be put on the templates page as a custom for all to use (nor am I asking for it to be sent to me privately)

I'm hoping someone could help me with these two templates [Naming them something different like "PT Planeswalker 3" for when I install them so I can find them.

Alternatively, could someone describe the process so I can do it myself. I don't understand the coding but am willing to try if someone gives me direction.

Thank you everyone, I hope I haven't done anything wrong.

Wed, 2011-03-16 03:23
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Pardon, question from the balcony:

What would be the point of a 'Walker with P/T? Doesn't that kinda defeat the point of a 'Walker in the first place?

Wed, 2011-03-16 09:40
Of_Nihility

Something for personal use a planeswalker-ish subtype, if I manage to get it. I'll show my ideas and cards soon. A happy smile

Like when most people ask for a whole new template on here, they get turned down because of the huge piles of work involved in creating a whole new template, from the image modifications (taking ages with graphics programs) to the scripting of them, which to me is completely understandable, especially as most people (so I see) on here drop or lose interest in their projects after someone puts a huge amount of effort into developing the template from scratch.

I'm just asking for this addition of an extra box, mimicking the one on the right. I'm sorry to have inconvenienced anyone.

The card could be used as a planeswalker or have many other applications. Ideas like a creature that changes depending on loyalty, planeswalkers which can use abilities or fight, planeswalkers that could have loyalty counters AND another type of counter, etc. I'm looking to put it to a practical use. So I'm hoping someone can help me A happy smile

Wed, 2011-03-16 10:47
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Again, why do it? it defeats the point of a Planeswalker.

Anything in magic that has P/T is a creature. And if a creature takes damage equal to his toughness, he dies. Planeswalkers are the same way, with one major caveat: Creatures can attack a 'Walker directly.

Read that.

As a 'Walker is equivalent to a player, a 'Walker can be attacked directly by creatures - making them far easier to slay.

See also this ruling for Gideon Jura, who has an animation as his ultimate:

Official ruling 15 Jun 2010 wrote:
If you activate Gideon Jura's third ability and then unpreventable damage is dealt to him (due to Unstable Footing, for example), that damage has all applicable results: specifically, the damage is marked on Gideon Jura (since he's a creature) and that damage causes that many loyalty counters to be removed from him (since he's a planeswalker). If the total amount of damage marked on Gideon Jura is lethal damage, he's destroyed as a state-based action. If Gideon Jura has no loyalty counters on him, he's put into his owner's graveyard as a state-based action.

In other words, a creature/walker is more frail than you think. (Gideon's third ability also prevents all damage that would be dealt to him, hence the "unpreventable" qualifier above, but it doesn't address kill spells or toughness/loyalty reduction.) It's by and large utterly impractical.

Wed, 2011-03-16 10:55
Of_Nihility

Yes, I do understand the implications but your argument is only against one of the possible ways I want to use the modification. Another is a new card type entirely that uses the planeswalker base at it is a very versatile one. As I said before, there are quite a few things I would like to use it for.

I hate to sound rude but you are being wholly unhelpful here. If you have information on how I might be able to do it myself, I would be really happy to hear it so I may go and do it but right now I'm knowledge-less.

I did look into the template files and saw that the image for that loyalty counter box is a separate image but don't know how or where to script it onto where I would like it.

Anyone with any information about doing this able to help me?

Wed, 2011-03-16 20:19
New Kind of Christ
New Kind of Christ's picture

The only way to get people interested is if you share your ideas.

Wed, 2011-03-16 20:32
Of_Nihility

Okay, my original idea was for a different game entirely. Originally it was a cross tabletop strategy with card game. A game where the board was split up into a square grid of between 10 x 10 and 20 x 20 (depending on how big of a game players wanted).

Cards would hold a Unit's information. For example, objectives completed would level up the Unit to gain them new abilities. Trying to keep combat pretty simple for now, attacking and defending worked the same as in magic. P v T if power defeats toughness, damage is dealt, so Unit cards needed a P/T AND a space for their starting HP value.

Hero cards would be similar except where a unit is a card representing a few soldiers of a specific type banded together, a Hero moved independently, has unique special abilities and could cast spells from their position providing they had enough Mana.

I might start a thread for this if people are interested in the idea to develop it more...

The plus side is that along with designing my Hero and Unit cards for my game, the template would allow for new planeswalker abilities, mechanics or types. For example, a planeswalker with an extra box might have an ability for -1 add a TYPE counter to themselves. -6 loyalty counters / -6 TYPE counters, ability trigger.

It could also give a type of planeswalker that is able to defend themselves. For example, now if you have nothing to defend it, a planeswalker just stands there and takes the hits as if they were happy to die. a P/T could give them more personality in a story, those that are fighting for their lives wouldn't just stand and die, even with no mana, they would use their fists to fight.

The extra slot might be usable for other purposes too.

Are people interested enough in my game for a seperate thread?

Wed, 2011-03-16 21:57
Nerameshu
Nerameshu's picture

I like the idea of where it could go, but I don't think most of the templaters would like to spend much time making a new card type until you get a lot of support.

Mind Mages
One set in design. One Fantasy From the Vaults in Design.
Modding since 11-05-12

Wed, 2011-03-16 22:25
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Of_Nihility wrote:
a P/T could give them more personality in a story, those that are fighting for their lives wouldn't just stand and die, even with no mana, they would use their fists to fight.

Did you not read the official ruling I quoted above? A 'Walker/Creature need only meet one of the kill criterion. If it has either 0 loyalty or damage equal to or exceeding its toughness, it's dead - and they can *still* be attacked directly, taking damage to both loyalty and toughness.

Now, having said that and now seeing what you're working on... I think there's a template that will help you, even if it is strictly for hero-style cards, here. It may not strictly have a Loyalty box and a P/T box, but it has fields that can accept both, as well as a field that can function better as a HP counter (along the right side of the picture).

Thu, 2011-03-17 08:41
Of_Nihility

The problem with that card is that it isn't as aesthetically pleasing as the the walkers themselves. I'm not a fan of the casting cost being on the left inside the picture giving the illustration less space.

right, failing the interest point which is understandable. I am going to attempt to pull this together myself.

So, I've made a copy of the 4 ability planeswalker folder and am looking into the style document (using notepad).

I've changed the names of the card and included '(Edit)' to all of the card naming fields.

I've located the section that deals with loyalty counters, copied the whole section and pasted it directly underneath. I've renamed this HP and changed the left value to 100.

(Card isn't currently showing up but I will edit and update when I get it working)

Thu, 2011-03-17 09:58
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

May I suggest looking at Dvorak first? Toying with the Magic templates (if my minor tweaks on the similar Space: the Convergence templates have told me anything) are akin to trying to fix an internal combustion engine with little more than a thumbtack. If you don't know what the heck you're doing, you'll end up breaking the template.

Not only that, but the templateers tend to not appreciate people using Magic templates for their own games:

Quote:
Groundskeeper Willy) Boy, you read my thoughts! You've got the shinning!
Bart) You mean "shining".
Groundskeeper Willy) Quiet! You wanna get sued?!

Thu, 2011-03-17 11:03
Of_Nihility

My opinion here is that if I produce a few cards, give people the idea of what I'm trying to accomplish, there may be sufficiently generated interest that eventually a set of templates could be created for the game. I have the ability with graphic design programs such as photoshop but lack the coding.

Would people have a huge issue with me just messing with the template to see if I can do it? From what you're saying, is nobody is going to bother helping me because I haven't generated interest yet trying to do something myself (which is advised and encouraged on this forum) is wrong too? This puts me between a rock and a hard place.

The issue with creating a template from scratch right now is that the work required to do so would be phenomenal and considering as i develop the game, Card requirements may change also. Thus why I want to use an aesthetically pleasing template that I can use and modify the text on, has as many different text box / number box areas that I could possibly need and when I have something substantially concrete. Push through with the development of a graphic template and ask for assistance on the coding of it.

Thu, 2011-03-17 11:31
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Here's the all important question - do you intend to ever sell your game?

Thu, 2011-03-17 11:34
Of_Nihility

For now, its fun to make rules and play, right now that is the aim. To create a game and play with friends. If in some future possibility, it gets to a point where I post the ideas somewhere here and people think it would ever be worth selling, then possibly, but for that to be a possibility, all art, card designs and templates would have to be redesigned to be unique.

Simple answer, no. This is a fun project with the final intention to play and have fun. For free, without the possibility of money being made off of it.

Thu, 2011-03-17 11:39
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Then I don't see a problem with you modding the templates, so long as you understand that any use of them for profit is a violation of WotC's intellectual rights, and I would expect they would make you pay dearly. Besides being disrespectful to the templaters whose work you're making money off of.

Thu, 2011-03-17 11:45
Of_Nihility

I would never do that. I'm not that kind of person. If anything, if the idea took off, I'd come back and commission the templates like any respectable person should (and in that case the templates would be started from scratch with a unique feel and theme geared towards the game). As mentioned, I'm not planning on selling it.

So to the mention of modding the template for this new box. I've looked inside the style file and seen everywhere that loyalty box is mentioned, made a copy underneath it and renamed everything with loyalty to hp. I've also made a copy of the loyalty.png and renamed that to hp.png to make that slightly easier.

I did try and change the 'Right:' value from the space that loyalty occupies to the left.

I have got the template to appear under the magic templates, it is now called HERO.

I'm yet to get the new box to appear but am trying to figure it out. Any ideas?

Thu, 2011-03-17 11:54
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Just a note - it is also not permissible to commission a template here, by any means. Any user I catch doing so would likely receive an immediate suspension for a severe violation of forum rules.

Thu, 2011-03-17 12:00
Of_Nihility

What do you mean it's a severe violation of the rules? I see where the rules might apply to magic based cards in the concept of counterfeiting but surely if I came to someone here and said this is the idea for my new game, I'm willing to pay to have someone help me turn my concept into something viable and unique, not using copyrighted material. Is that a huge issue?

I guess I'll leave the issue alone, I'm not paying, there is no project where money is being made, I won't commission work.

Back to the core subject of this template mod, any ideas?

Thu, 2011-03-17 16:53
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

I mean just that - we have a forum rules document (read it if you haven't), and for profit projects are absolutely not permitted. That doesn't only include counterfeiting, forging, or proxying. You also can't commission a template here.

Thu, 2011-03-17 16:57
Of_Nihility

That is understood, I've dropped the idea. I did read the rule also make sure I knew where I stood.

Any advice on the mod?