Set competition: Light Side's Official Thread

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Sat, 2010-12-18 00:01
kikushadowblades
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Welcome, everyone on my team to the competition. Just for clarification this thread is meant only for the members of the light team and moderators to post in, so please withhold your comments if you are just reading this for fun. Spying of any kind by either side is highly discouraged, just don't do it. The members of my team are...

Kikushadowblades - lead
Guitarweeps
Anuttymous
Vinyacoire
lord_joakim
Kazerima
Original thread: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/4728
We have two months to get this done, so I want to get off to a good start with some brainstorming for how to represent light mechanically and flavorfully in magic (keep in mind this needs to work in all 5 colors). We can hold off on specific mechanics until we have a good idea of how to represent light. Also if team members would like to specialize in any particular areas (Design, playtesting, development, flavor text, art, maybe a specific color, etc., etc.) this would be the time to speak up.
Our assignment so far is "Parallos: The Twin Plane
Originally a single plane, it split into two collided planes after an ancient conflict between the light and dark. Now they each have a respective plane: The plane of light, and the plane of darkness... a new war is on the edge when the two planes recolide and an ancient anger awakens... "
Note to all team members:

Spoiler:
I want you to challenge me on my card critiques. If i disregard or dislike your card and you disagree with my comment, speak up. The best thing you can do as a team member is fight me on my decisions, point out mistakes, or question my calls. I do not want to "rule with an iron fist", I want you guys to help me make the decisions, and come to a final agreement on our cards. If you don't call me out when I make a mistake, then we are going to end up with the set that I like the most, not the best possible set we can turn in to the community.

Logistics
Spoiler:
This is a 115 card set with
49 commons
31 uncommons
27 rares
8 mythic rares

Finalized material
Spoiler:
The Current Final file can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/?6l4265e5pm885tx
All cards designed by the team so far (that did not make it in at common) can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/?nkyy1gyhb4irl3c

Current Assignment:
Spoiler:
Next Assignment: This is the last individual assignment, and the most challenging. You will post 5 rares for each color, 1 mythic for each color (the others will be planeswalkers we make as a team), and 4 common artifacts/lands (to fill out the common slot), 2 uncommon artifacts/lands (to fill out the uncommon slot), and 2 artifact rares (to fill out the rare slot). This assignment is due on the 18th of February. After assignments are handed in, team members will have the 19th of February to post up their final voting in each slot, and I will choose the cards that get the most votes to be our last slots. I am open to suggestions if team members want to break up the work in some way, perhaps each member addressing a color, as we are so crunched for time.

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Sat, 2010-12-18 01:20
Vinyacoire
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My initial thoughts on making an entire plane feel 'light' or 'dark' is of the creatures that inhabit it. Shadowmoor did an excellent job for making white creatures seem evil. And as I'm typing this, I just realized that Lorwyn did a decent job of making black feel righteous with the design of their elves.

Original thought was to make Angels as a primary creature type of our set, like Angel of Despair. But, again, Lorwyn had some good themes to think about as well. I may have to look that set over some more...

Sat, 2010-12-18 01:24
Anuttymous
Administrator
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Correction: Anuttymous. 1 "n", 2 "t"s.

I think light shows itself as a weapon by tapping creatures, and, as per Sunblast Angel, destroying tapped creatures. That can be done in some colours, white and blue mostly, but not so much others. Light often is coupled with heat, thus the colour red has a weapon. Green uses light for growth, perhaps? Explore that? As for black... I'm stumped.

Defensively, light blinds things, perhaps stopping their attacks. Shown often in white. Blue could say light is generated when a spell is ruined, i.e. counters are born. Red doesn't do defensive, so... Black's defense could be removing light, thus incapacitating foes. And green... Not too sure, again.

Also, I'm not too good at thinking up individual cards, so I'll clean up any entries, and focus on mechanics and the grander scheme, throwing in any card ideas I think of. Sound amiable?

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me anything you need

Sat, 2010-12-18 03:42
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
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Okay, so far we should focus on finding how each color can use light in their typical style of cards. Right now we have
White - Tapping effects(blinding)
Blue - Can also use tapping effects, we can use light themes in our conterspells and bounce spells as well I think
Black - I think this is a good place to put destroying tapped creatures ( assassinate)
Red - The heat from burn spells could easily be shifted flavorfully to light for our purposes.
Green - Typically the nature color, we should have no problem using light flavor to convey mana gathering abilities ( channel the suns)

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Sat, 2010-12-18 12:34
Guitarweeps
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Not getting specific inspiration yet but it will come.

Kiki - can you put a link to the original thread in the first post for easier access?

EDIT: Just thought of something. Since the plane split into a light and dark plane that means that each respective plane has eternal darkness or light. So what would a world with no night be like? Hmmm.. thinking about that might strike something. Also, correct me if that assumption is wrong.

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Sat, 2010-12-18 22:12
Anuttymous
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Logically, that makes sense, Guitarweeps. I guess it would mean sleep deprivation, extreme tiredness, and probably really bad headaches.

I think green should have an emphasis on reach, because plants will grow more with more light (well, actually, they'd die, but that's thinking factually). In which case, we'd need something with an emphasis on flying, perhaps? Would there be a reason for things to need to fly in a light world?

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me anything you need

Sat, 2010-12-18 22:35
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
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I think Guitarweeps suggestion makes sense, It probably would be a world without a night. I think that the effects of that would be pretty tough to show on individual cards however(insomniac vampire)? I like the idea Anuttymous has to make greens plants theme tie in to the light. I think it would make more sense overall to give green cards bonus's from when it is light.

Important Notice: This is my first assignment to the team. I would like each member of the team to create 3 mechanics that show off the flavor of an all light world. Each team member should also bring back 1 old mechanic that they think ties in to the flavor of this world. You do not need to show cards using these mechanics just yet, but I want to see what we can come up with for our mechanical identity. The deadline for your 4 mechanics (3 new and 1 old) is this coming Monday at 12:00 PM. We will then start the process of picking the mechanics (out of the 16 submitted) that will see print in our set.

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Sun, 2010-12-19 01:36
Guitarweeps
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Actually that is not what I was getting at. Chances are there would be no health or sleeping issues. After living your whole life like that it would not matter.

I was more going towards a lush, healthy world with teaming plant life that grows extensively and quickly. Maybe the light from the plane's sun could be more rejuvanating than the average ray of light. Not sure how this could effect the sentient beings though.

What if due to the lack of darkness some beings try to manufacture it?

EDIT: How many mechanics are we going to use in a 45 card mini set?

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Sun, 2010-12-19 02:33
Anuttymous
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We would only have room for about 3 mechanics, including an old one. Maybe just 2, honestly. But it's best to get as many ideas as possible.

For an old mechanic... Radiance seems reasonable.
Trying to think of new keywords...

What could light be represented as?

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me anything you need

Sun, 2010-12-19 03:43
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
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We will most likely only use 2 mechanics, 3 at most. The idea is to get a lot of potential ideas so we can go with the cream of the crop. I agree with guitarweeps that it would probably be a very lush world. maybe we could do something based on the idea of rapid growth for plantlife?

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Mon, 2010-12-20 01:00
Guitarweeps
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The light plane is a lush, healthy, growing world. It is teaming with life that other planes can only dream of. The light from the suns rejuvinates, heals, and provides strenght to its inhabitants.

Sunburst (This enters the battlefield with a charge counter on it for each color of mana spent to cast it.)
- The proposed return mechanic. Recognizes the abundant nature of the mana from these lands and represents "growth" through charge counters.

Revitalize N (You choose N permanents. Untap those permanents.)
- This action keyword represents the revitalizing nature of the plane's sun to everything on the plane. Lands produce much more mana, creatures are able to be much more alert having grown in a world with no night, even the artifacts rejuvinate their magical properties faster.

Harvest (You may return any number of lands to your hand to reduce this card's casting cost by any color mana that land could produce)
- Alternate use of your lands to cast your spells sooner.

The last mechanic I don't think can be keyworded. It is a trigger in which the trigger changes but the effect is the same each time.

(<trigger>, put a +1/+1 counter on this.)

This shows how organisms on the plane are embewed to keep growing and expanding.
I know a static trigger and variable effect can be keyworded (like landfall) but not sure about the other way around.

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Mon, 2010-12-20 03:51
Anuttymous
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For a returning mechanic, radiance fits flavourfully, I would've thought.

I'm thinking a Plant mechanic, with all the enhanced wildlife, wouldn't go amiss. Or a Plant subtheme.
Seeing as a lot of the plants will grow quickly, I think they should be cheap, but have a way to evolve, and in some cases fight back. So...

Vitalize <cost> (<cost>: Put a +1/+1 counter on this.)
Coupled with abilities such as "As long as CARDNAME has three or more counters on it, it has trample/deathtouch/loses defender/etc."

I like Guitarweeps' Harvest. That'd probably be one of my most voted at the moment.

Also, the area we're heading, charge counters & +1/+1 counters, Proliferate might not be a bad idea either.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me anything you need

Mon, 2010-12-20 17:48
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
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Hello guys, lord_joakim has now been added to our team, evening things up.

Quote:
Important Notice: This is my first assignment to the team. I would like each member of the team to create 3 mechanics that show off the flavor of an all light world. Each team member should also bring back 1 old mechanic that they think ties in to the flavor of this world. You do not need to show cards using these mechanics just yet, but I want to see what we can come up with for our mechanical identity. The deadline for your 4 mechanics (3 new and 1 old) is this coming Monday at 12:00 PM. We will then start the process of picking the mechanics (out of the 16 submitted) that will see print in our set.
I will extend the deadline on the 4 keyword submissions until tuesday night at 12:00 PM so that lord_joakim has time to get his in. In the meantime here are the 4 mechanics I thought of using.
Energize:
Spoiler:
Revitalized Bear 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature - Bear Chaos Symbol
Energize - If you have cast another spell this turn, ~ gets +1/+1.
2/2

Suncast:
Spoiler:
Resurgent Knowledge 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Sorcery Chaos Symbol
Suncast Blue mana symbol (If you cast this spell from your hand, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile for Blue mana symbol.)
Draw a card.

Clorophyl:
Spoiler:
Paradise Tree Green mana symbol
Creature - Treefolk Red mana symbol
Chlorophyl (Whenever you cast a spell put a charge counter on Paradise Tree.)
If Paradise Tree has one or more charge counters on it, it has “Tap symbol: Add Green mana symbol to your mana pool.”
If Paradise Tree has five or more charge counters on it, it has “Tap symbol: Add two mana of any color to your mana pool.
0/2

Returning Keyword Cascade:
Spoiler:
Flowing Life 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Sorcery Blue mana symbol
Cascade (When you cast this spell, exile the top card of your library until you exile a nonland card that costs less. You may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Put the exiled cards on the bottom of your library at random.)
Gain 2 life for each spell you’ve cast this turn.

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Mon, 2010-12-20 18:48
Vinyacoire
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Chlorophyll = Win

As for my ideas:

Kindle:

Spoiler:
Kindle <mana> - You may sacrifice this permanent to add <mana> to your mana pool.

Luster:

Spoiler:
Luster - This creature can block creatures with shadow.

Vivid:

Spoiler:
Vivid - Remove a charge counter from this permanent: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

My first thought was Radiant, but after seeing the suggestion, I like Sunburst much more.

Mon, 2010-12-20 22:03
lord_joakim
lord_joakim's picture

Hi all. Glad I'm on board! I have some thoughts on this project, and can't wait to share it with you. Let's go for it, right?

First of all, I am going to sound rude and douchy. I'm sorry about it, but I will try to put down my thoughts as clear as possible.

First of all, this isn't structured enough for us to win:

Quote:
White - Tapping effects(blinding)
Blue - Can also use tapping effects, we can use light themes in our conterspells and bounce spells as well I think
Black - I think this is a good place to put destroying tapped creatures ( assassinate)
Red - The heat from burn spells could easily be shifted flavorfully to light for our purposes.
Green - Typically the nature color, we should have no problem using light flavor to convey mana gathering abilities

The reason is that these considerations are secondary abilities, something that will only be represented in minor card mechanics; especially as they aren't really "new". They're not to be made a set around. They're niches; important as they may be, they're hopefully not to be the focal point. Things like this should be worked on when we have established the core set theme, the set mechanic, the gimmick. I understand that it's an establishment between core color mechanics and the idea of light, but doing this is too uninituitive, and the reason why people get kicked out of the Great Designer Search. ... Or that's what stupid, obnoxious me thinks.

It's great with the list, really. But as we've been handed half a top-down environment (Create a set revolving around "light"), we should establish exactly what it means as a set, not as a color.

I agree with our lord kikushadowblades that we need 2 mechanics, 3 max. I'd argue that we need one new gimmicky mechanic and an old one to compliment the new one somehow. If we go by 3 mechanics, the last should mostly be present in uncommons and rares, like imprint or trap cards. It's a good initiative by kikushadowblades to have us start out with finding the keywords.

Radiance is a mechanic from Ravnica which really wasn't a big woah mechanic, but I think it's because there wasn't enough mechanical support myself. We might play on that. But it would require us to go a multicolor direction to be really fun.

Sunburst is very flavorful and would also require us to go a multicolor direction; however, an interesting take on the mechanic was something I saw in MtGSalvation under the rumor mill. That was some guy who suggested hybrid-colored-artifacts-with-sunburst was a brilliant mechanical concept and might show its face in one of the new Mirrodin sets. The idea is dropped now, colored artifacts were an Esper gimmick, but the mechanic remains really cool. For example, take a look at this creature which I just made up:

Flame Javelin Beast (2/R)(2/R)(2/R)
Creature - Elemental U
Sunburst
When ~ enters the battlefield, it deals damage equal to the number of +1/+1 counters on it to target creature.
0/0

This means that this Elemental can be paid for with RRR and enter as a 1/1 and ping one creature, a 2/2 for RRGG and deal 2 damage to target creature, a 3/3 for RRGW and deal 3 damage to a creature, a 4/4 for BBRGW to deal 4 damage to a creature or a 5/5 for WUBRG, dealing 5 damage to a creature. Look how awesome that is, mechanically! It's so modular. A happy smile

Returning Cascade would be fun, as it is a fun mechanic, but I'd really rather do the sunburst direction and have a multicolor theme, at least a minor one. I have the reasons for that in a moment; I have thought of a setting for our set, as well as an ensuing conflict, based on a multicolor setting.

Another mechanic to return could be Forecast, but really, I don't see it happening. I'd love hybrid Sunburst. Let's please do and play with it.

----

As for new mechanics, I'd recommend Harvest if we go the "great growing world" route; but honestly, I think it resembles Lorwyn too much. And simply outlining the flavorful point of the set as "light means things grow" doesn't really tickle my Vorthos. I'd prefer another setting. But I'll get back to that.

I'll buy the basic premise of the world being in constant illumination under a sun. Mechanically, that means one thing to me. Obviousness. Revelation. Knowledge. Power. Enlightenment. Illumination. Light also has a holistic side. All of these things pretty much side the color wheel to circumvent anything but most black values. Deceit, solitude and subtleness aren't very welcome to a world where everything can be seen.

kikushadowblades' mechanic Energize seems very doable. The only question is, really, when isn't this card energized? You cast spells just about every turn.

The mechanic Suncast, really, is only a worse version of Rebound. As such, I don't see it happening. But the mechanic inspired me; the idea of the opponent being able to see your spells you'd possibly cast really resembles light. Let's do it; but make it slighty different...

-

Suncast {cost} (When you cast this spell, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile for {cost}. If you don't, put it into your graveyard.)

-

You see what I did there? Repeatable spells for large investments that your opponents can see! This is what I think is kikushadowblades' mechanic, just slightly fixed so that it works. And the toolbox approach of this card really tickles my imagination, think of the cards you could make with it:

Knowledge Expanse 2U
Instant
Suncast 2U
Draw a card.

Extracting Tutor 4B
Instant
Suncast - Pay 4 life.
Search your library for a card, then put that card into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

Immense Growth 1G
Sorcery
Suncast - 1G
Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, then put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

Pyretic Circle 3RR
Sorcery
Suncast 6RR
~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

Also, the necessary:

Nauseating Takklemaggots B
Sorcery
Suncast B
Each opponent loses 1 life.

----

Luster also seems like an ok mechanic, but we'd need Shadow in our set too, then... And Shadow doesn't resemble light, but rather lack of it...

----

Anyways, this really means that I'd prefer us going with Sunburst and Suncast. They seem really obviously connected to light.

Also, the idea of an evergrowing world might be appreciated, but I'd rather we go another direction. I'll try working out a world concept I had.

Parallos, the Illuminated

Under all illumination, the inhabitants of Parallos' light side live in bright, eternal sunlight. Shadows are practically nonexistant, the glowing sun reaching the far ends of the realm. The capital of the grounddwellers, Kalfyrk, thrives on the banks of a retreating river, growing dry crops in the soil. Because the sun has put its inhabitants in warmth and safety - and desperation. Drought has encroached many of the chaotic races of Parallos into adventurous raiding bands. Viashino are the scourge nomads of the deserts, seeking to peel off water drops from caravans. Bogs and swamplands have succumbed into peat, the dark creatures of the murk holding on to the last available mudholes, where they dwell and snarl at trespassers, or drag them into them. Islands are mountains in vast salt steppes, or float in shards, held up by arcane, solitary mages.

The world, however, is not in conflict. While crime and problems appear from time to time, the scarcity of resources and the blinding fear of being banished into the vast barren wasteland causes order to rule. The inhabitants are poor and thirsty; but safeguarded. Because the rulers of this world at least grant them the minimal requirements for life... Thus are the bidding of the angels in the sun palace.

After the original split from Parallos' dark side, the rich mana fields of Parallos shimmered into growing many life forms on Parallos. The world was supervised by five titanic angels; one of each color. It did not last long before conflict ensued between the grounddwellers, and Uhymm, the white angel, watched the world grow into conflict in despair. His love, the red firemane angel An'Qajab, rushed to the ground and tried to settle the world with force. But even with her titanic strength, the immense power of the grounddwellers had her succumb, and she was brutally slaughtered and killed by one of the many fledgling empires. Uhymm was heartbroken and consoled with the other angels; Hatfaremnon, the black angel, suggested that the ground had to be taken into possession and ruled with an iron fist. Banva, the green emerald angel, declined, believing that nature in its natural state should take care of itself, and as such there was no reason to intervene in the grounddwellers' lives until the world itself was threatened. Kapaq'Tar, the blue drake-headed angel, agreed that the land was to be left alone, but that it was the interest of life forms to shape their own destiny, not to be ruled by the skies. Uhymm decided along with the rest that nothing should be done, but grew increasingly unhappy from the rising evils on the land as well of the loss of his loved one.

But Hatfaremnon wasn't pleased with the decision. He wanted power over the land for the good of the angels, and as such he entered the land and laid the foundation of a ruthless rule. Banva intervened and slew him; however he did not destroy Hatfaremnon's spirit, which possessed the unwilling Uhymm, pushing the white angel over the edge. The white angel went into blind insanity of assumed justice and killed off the other angels, ultimately emitting a sunblast that leveled most of the plane's cities.

Aeons have passed since; Uhymm now is the avatar of the all-encompassing sun and makes sure that it eternally burns trees if they grow too high, level out mountains with heat, and blind the wicked that would rise for the sake of evil. However, Uhymm has understood that the world is encompassed by all five colors; his vision of a perfect, holistic world is almost complete. There is no creature on the land which is really threatened. While small problems erupt, the desperate inhabitants of Parallos cooperate regardless of dissimilarities or conflicts. Uhymm sees that the world is in peace; and to make sure of that, resources are scarce, and he sees all with his light.

The sun, which he guards, is not a regular sun. It once was a star, but Uhymm, the titan angel, has reshaped it with mana to emit all colors. It glows in rainbows. Uhymm's palace flows below the sun, and his angels are his servants and soldiers. Little does he know that his twisted view on a perfect world is nothing but a mere cranial insertion by the possessing spirit inside him. Hatfaremnon's immortal sould resides in his heart and thrives in eternal joy on the power the black angel has acquired.

Or something like that.

The theme would be, well, light, and it would have a present multicolor theme - not necessarily all-encompassing, but it could be there. Sunburst and suncast would be there as well. There are possible legends to include in this story.

What do you guys think?

Mon, 2010-12-20 23:18
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
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Now that everything is out in the open, my thoughts.

First, on the story/setting. Lord Joakim's probably makes more sense as that is probably more what the world would look like with ever present sunlight. The lush world approach was more based on some magical properties causing the sunlight to revitalize. I like the story and it would save us having to come up with something new. A happy smile My only concern though, is that this setting would also fit the dark world, drought, barren, poor, starving. This could be good or bad I guess. We would have a different mechanical approach to it than they would.

I am going to read the story a couple times at different times before I comment so that it can sink in.

On to mechanics.

Sunburst - I am glad people seem to like this. Personally, of all the returning suggestions this one is my favorite. Then Lord Jaokim pushes it over the top with the hybrid suggestion. I was worried about sunburst for one reason: it is best suited for artifacts. I was thinking we could do 4C cards but that would get old fast, like after one card. Hybrid is absolutely perfect to meet that problem and have a totally new approach to the return of sunburst. My vote is strongly for this approach. Plus, it is super flavorful.

Revitalize - Don't like this as much as the others. Scrap it!

Harvest - Kind of surprised with the positive reaction but that is cool. Has potential but should be only on a few cards. Perfect for a 45 card set I guess.

Lord Joakim wrote:
I'd recommend Harvest if we go the "great growing world" route
I disagree. This actually feels more like struggling to pull any resources you can to meet your goal. If you had bountiful mana you wouldn't need this mechanic. But in a droughted, barren world you need all you can get at whatever sacrifice. Didn't consider all this when I suggested it...

Vitalize - Seems a little too narrow to keyword to me. It would be better suited as just an ability IMO.

Energize - I am not sure if this is supposed to be triggered or static. Either way it is worded wrong. Anyways, I really like this and it opens up a lot of possible avenues. I think that a triggered ability is probably better because you can do things that a static couldn't do but can do what a static would do just with "until end of turn". Plus it could compound.

Suncast - I like Lord Jaokim's version as the original is too close to rebound. We would have to be very careful though with this and ensure it isn't too powerful. Repeatable effects often are.

Chlorophyl - I like this a lot too but we could combine with Energize in some way.

Cascade - Yes cascade is fun, but it is also not fun if you know what I mean. Ever played shards block constructed? Yeah, it is stupid. I give a thumbs down.

Kindle/Vivid - Hmmm... I like it but not sure if it is worth the keywording.

Luster - Love this but we can't use shadow in our set. If I were a betting man I would go all in saying that the dark side will use shadow. But, since we don't know it would be a poor choice I think. Great flavor though.

However, this inspires me of something else, something that I am not sure is possible. The presence of light and constant illumination would mean our beings would be more alert and observant. Maybe a mechanic that can block anything? Not sure how to word it but it could block any creature regardless of whatever evasion they had.

- This creature may block creatures as if they did not have abilities?
- This creature may block creatures as if they did not have shadow, flying, intimidate, or are unblockable?
- Whenever you are attacked, you may choose an attacking creature. This creature blocks that creature?

Ugh, I don't know...

Overall, I vote for sunburst, energize, suncast, and harvest. Dang, that is too many! Actually maybe it would be good to start out with too many mechanics and cut them later after we have explored their full potential.

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Tue, 2010-12-21 01:44
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
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So all of our initial mechanics have been turned in and we have a lot of stuff to choose from, I think I'll start with the returning old keyword. Please do not be offended if your mechanics don't make it in to the set, All of the mechanics i looked at had great potential, but some just didn't get the appropriate flavor across, or had poor gameplay implications.

Radiance - This would be very interesting to see fleshed out, since it was thouroughly ignored when it was introduced in ravnica. On the other hand, we have very little precedent on how to design Radiance cards, so I don't think we will get the recognition we are looking for with such a forgotten mechanic.
Sunburst - This popped into my head early on as well. Sunburst is a very solid mechanic with lots of different ways to twist it, and does a great job of getting the light world feeling. This is my favorite of the proposed returning mechanics.
Cascade - A lot of open design space here, but also a very dangerous mechanic. Not a very attractive option so soon after the mess that was Alara Reborn.

New mechanics
Revitalize - A nice effort, but we have mechanics with more design space that get the theme of light across better.
Harvest - More of a starved resource ability. This reads very poorly to anyone but a Spike as well. We have better options.
triggered +1/+1 counters: This is a great idea, but it is actually being used in GDS right now as evolve. I'd prefer we going with something a little more original for a new mechanic.
Vitalize: very vague, just like the levelers of rise of the eldrazi, it does a poor job of showing why the plant is growing. we have stronger mechanics to choose from.
Energize: Seems reasonable enough. After submitting it, I realize that it should be probably be changed to your second other spell of the turn, so that it wasn't so easy to trigger (when was the last turn you didn't play any spells in?) doable.
Suncast - I really like joakim's revised version of this. The original was definitely too close to rebound, but i think we can work with joakim's version. One of my favorites so far.
Chlorophyll - Since we are turning away from the idea of a lush world this no longer fits, a good mechanic, but not for this set IMO.
Kindle - Feels very similar to keywording a drawback, it just doesn't read well to anyone but spikes. Probably plays quite well though.
Luster - This is a great idea, but we can't use it unless the dark side uses shadow, which we can't count on.
Vivid - Similar to kindle in that it reads very poorly to non spikes. However, this could be workable.

As for joakim's story, I would need to read it more closely to really comment, but we will consider it.
Once lord_joakim has submitted his keywords, we will get to the process of picking out the cream of the crop. Ideally we should have our mechanical identity down by wednesday. I would ask that each team member post their opinions on each mechanic, and post their 3-4 favorites so we can get a good idea of what we will end up working with.
My favs:
New: Suncast, Energize
Returning: Sunburst

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Tue, 2010-12-21 07:13
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Lol, Lord Joakim said so much I didn't even realize that he didn't submit mechanics...

@Kiki - How did you intend energize to work? Was it supposed to be static that turns on/off or a trigger? I think a trigger would be cool that can compound. The only problem with having the second spell trigger it, is that it woudl then happen very rarely. I like it triggering off the first. It is kind of like landfall... Hey! I get a bonus for casting a spell?! I was gonna do that anyway! That gets people excited, and as long as we design it as such, it won't get out of hand.

So, I am getting card ideas and can't hold them in any longer...

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Tue, 2010-12-21 08:06
Vinyacoire
Vinyacoire's picture

I haven't had a chance to read through ALL the comments yet, but as to my Luster keyword, consider expanding it; blocking Flying makes no sense, but we could easily have it block Shadow, Fear, and Intimidate.

Tue, 2010-12-21 08:13
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
kikushadowblades's picture

Energize was intended to be a static effect that checked if you had cast another spell this turn, which would then turn on the bonus for the turn. Thinking more about it now, it probably works better as a triggered effect so you can go crazy with it and get a ton of activations. It could definitely work off of your first other spell, it then just seems lackluster, because you were probably going to cast a spell anyways, the card hasn't changed your behavior at all.
As for posting card ideas, go ahead and post them if you are really bursting, I have nothing against the team posting cards yet, I just don't require it (for now). What I would ask of you though is that you limit yourself to common cards for now, because in the words of Mark Rosewater "If your theme isn't at common it's not your theme."

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Tue, 2010-12-21 09:04
lord_joakim
lord_joakim's picture

Honestly, I really don't have any suggestions for mechanics. I pondered some ideas, but I'd rather we went with the fixed Suncast or something. So there.

Tue, 2010-12-21 21:22
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
kikushadowblades's picture

We now have a new member Kazerima! please report in, you can ignore the first posted assignment, but please get a good feel for the set for future assignments.
Speaking of which, it is time for the next assignment in the design process, commons!
Assignment: Design Skeleton Create a design skeleton (link here, http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/78) using appropriate card codes (link here, http://www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/21) For the blue commons in our set. Since we only have 45 cards total in the set, this will be 5 blue cards at common, please correct me if you think this number is incorrect. In addition, I would like to see each member post a logline (selling catchphrase) for the set.
So your post would look like this:

Spoiler:
Logline:
CU01 (name optional)
CU02
CU03
CU04
CU05

Since this is a pretty short assignment, the deadline is Wednesday at 12:00 P.M.
P.S: Feel free to use the mechanics we have developed(any of the proposed ones is fine, but try to stick to the ones that most of the team liked), part of this exercise is to see how well our potential mechanics fit on real cards.

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Tue, 2010-12-21 21:18
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
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Luster - I like the new idea. I am thinking that this is not really an exciting thing to have as a keyworded theme but could def appear on a card or two for some zest!

Quote:
It could definitely work off of your first other spell, it then just seems lackluster, because you were probably going to cast a spell anyways, the card hasn't changed your behavior at all.
But see that was part of the fun with landfall is that you wanted to play your lands anyways and getting a bonus for doing just that is pretty cool. It doesn't change your behavior only if we don't make interesting options. I know you said to make commons but an idea I had shows what I am trying to say best.

CARDNAME 3 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature - Elemental - M
Energize - Whenever you cast a spell, double ~'s power and toughness.
4/4

This card causes a lot of interesting things. Any instant suddently becomes deadly especially Giant Growth effects. With this card in attacking mode, your opponent is wondering if you have an instant, you may use an instant you wouldn't normally cast after blocking is declared, or you may just cast a spell you would have anyways. Additionally you have to decide now if you want to cast your spells prior to combat vice after (which is normally the correct play). We can do a lot of things to make the mechanic inttersting as long as we aren't lazy with the designs. Either way though, people get excited about extra bonuses, but even more so when doing something they wanted to do anyways!

Just my humble thoughts...

EDIT: Just to clarify, are we all supposed to design our own version of the blue commons?

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Tue, 2010-12-21 21:30
Kazerima
Kazerima's picture

Sorry I'm a little late to the party. Can I still submit some mechanics?

For old mechanic: Possibly both sunburst and radiant, though it could be hard to have 2 old mechanics returning, but they could both work well with Refract.

New mechanics:
Refract (When ~ enters the battlefield, it becomes any color of your choice.)

The idea with these is that the theme since it's based around "light" is it would be a 'rainbow' multicolor set.

Current sets:
Gateways (On hiatus)

Tue, 2010-12-21 22:13
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
kikushadowblades's picture

If you would like to post mechanics that is fine, but know that 2 mechanics (1 new and 1 returning old one) will realistically be featured, since this is only a 45 card set. It is possible that a third mechanic will be included that is very small in number. We are essentially set on sunburst being the returning mechanic from what I have heard, and it looks like suncast(lord_joakim's fixed version) and energize are the main contenders for new mechanics.
EDIT:my submission ( I would urge you not to read this before you create your own cards, so that we have the widest spread of ideas possible)

Spoiler:
CU01:Radiant Sentry A 2/U hybrid mana symbol.A 2/U hybrid mana symbol.
Creature — Merfolk Soldier Chaos Symbol
Sunburst (This enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each color of mana spent to cast it.)
Radiant Sentry has shroud as long as it has three or more +1/+1 counters on it.
0/0
CU02:Revitalized Drake 3 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Drake Chaos Symbol
Flying
Energize — Whenever you cast a spell, Revitalized Drake gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
With each ray of light, a champion is born.
2/2
CU03:Tide of Upheaval 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant Chaos Symbol
Suncast 3UU (When you cast this spell, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile for 3UU. If you don’t put it into your graveyard.)
Return target creature to it’s owner’s hand.
CU04:Resurgent Knowledge 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Sorcery Chaos Symbol
Suncast 2U (When you cast this spell, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile for 2U. If you don’t put it into your graveyard.)
Draw a card.
CU05: Blinding Failure 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant Chaos Symbol
Counter target spell. Then, tap target creature.
“Even a blind man could see the flaws in your plan.”

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Wed, 2010-12-22 00:07
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Ok, here are my five starters.

Spoiler:
CU01
Lightbender Mage 3 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Human Wizard
Energize - Whenever you cast a spell, you may tap or untap target permanent.
1/2

CU02
Fithian Falcon 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Bird
Flying
2/2

CU03
Inspired Dreams 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Enchantment
Sunburst (This enters the battlefield with a charge counter on it for each color of mana spent to cast it.)
Remove a charge counter from ~: Draw a card.

CU04
Recharge 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant
Untap all lands or creatures you control.
Bathe in the light; take it all in.

CU05
Windborn Blue mana symbol
Sorcery
Target creature gains flying until end of turn.
Suncast 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol (Exile this card as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile for 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol. If you don’t put it into your graveyard.)

FYI, I think that Suncast should be worded as such: Exile this card as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile for <cost>. If you don’t, put it into your graveyard.

Don't need the "as you cast this spell part" and it should be referred to as card when changing zones. See buyback.

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Wed, 2010-12-22 00:14
lord_joakim
lord_joakim's picture

Honestly, I don't like Energize at all since it's always on and too easily broken, but I will try to play with it anyways. :/

Also, I will attempt to promote a multicolor subtheme personally...

(Also, I can't figure out spoilers. Avert your eyes.)

Sunmilling Wizard 2/U
Creature - Human Wizard Chaos Symbol
Sunburst
When ~ enters the battlefield, target player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of counters on ~.
0/0

Big Lazy Serpent 5UU
Creature - Serpent C
Islandwalk, defender
Energize - Whenever you cast a spell, ~ loses defender until end of turn.
6/6

Thought Riddles U
Instant C
Suncast U
Look at the top card of your library. You may put that card into your graveyard.

Repeating Errors 1UU
Instant C
Suncast 2UU
Counter target spell.

Slow Dehydration U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Energize - Whenever you cast a spell, tap enchanted creature.

Thoughts: The hybrid sunbursts probably shouldn't be done at common. My Serpent below hurts my eyes in Limited strength. We should rather go for ordinary sunbursts if we can't come up with something better for the hybrids; I don't see it working in blue at least. We should go for dual or single-costed sunbursts instead, as above:

Suntempest Serpent 2 mana symbolA 2/U hybrid mana symbol.A 2/U hybrid mana symbol.A 2/U hybrid mana symbol.
Creature - Serpent Chaos Symbol
Sunburst
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, put a flood counter on each of X target lands. Each of those lands is an island for as long as there is a flood counter on it.
CARDNAME can't attack unless defending player controls an island.
2/2

Wed, 2010-12-22 00:22
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Lord Joakim - so what are your thoughts on landfall then?

I agree that hybrid sunburst shouldn't be common; which is why I didn't do one. Just doesn't seem right really.

Also, I just realized that we can't do 2/C creatures at all without a base cost. Otherwise every color has access to a 2/2 for two mana. We at least have to do 2/C C.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Wed, 2010-12-22 02:20
lord_joakim
lord_joakim's picture

Landfall was different in that A) it could only trigger once per turn and B) it changed the perception of decks, sometimes making you hope you drew a land rather than a spell. Which is why I love the mechanic. It's groundbreaking in its own right.

Energize means "Play Magic like you used to, then get random bonus from playing like you used to."

Mechanics should change the game. The problem with energize is that it really doesn't do anything other than making Ponder more viable.

It does however, now I think about it, play AWESOMELY with suncast. THink about it; you cast a spell from exile every turn... A happy smile That realization made me change my look on it, actually. Let's play with it.

And 2 cmc bears aren't a problem. Remember that a 2/U hybrid needs to be paid with two different sorts of mana to be a 2/2. I don't see you making a fuss about Meddling Mage for example. A happy smile Or any of the plenty of bears that are dual colored. Also, there's the guildmages.

It's really not a problem. A happy smile

Wed, 2010-12-22 09:37
Vinyacoire
Vinyacoire's picture

Sol Sparrow Blue mana symbol
Creature - Bird
Flying
1/1

Luster Falcon 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Bird
Flying, luster (This creature can block creatures with shadow, fear, and intimidate.)
1/1

Diurnal Owl 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Bird
Flying
Tap symbol: Draw a card.
1/1

Stroke of Brilliance 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant
Suncast 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol (Exile this card as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile for 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol. If you don’t put it into your graveyard.)
Draw a card.

Regressing Glint Blue mana symbol
Instant
Suncast Blue mana symbol (Exile this card as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile for Blue mana symbol. If you don’t put it into your graveyard.)
Tap target creature.

Wed, 2010-12-22 14:18
Kazerima
Kazerima's picture

Funny thing Vinyacore, I just made the exact same thing as stroke of brilliance on my own... (see focus)

CU-01 Crystal Golem 3 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature- Golem
Sunburst(rules text blah blah blah)
1/1

I was a little uninspired for this, as I didnt want to copy the "big lazy worm" and needed an excuse to use sunburst.

CU-02 Trick of the Light 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature- Illusion
Energize- When you cast a spell target creature cannot block ~ this turn.
1/1

I wanted to use Energize in something that would benefit from multiple uses without being heavily broken and adding obligatory blue evasion card.

CU-03 Focus 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant
Draw a card
Suncast 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol (exile this spell as you cast it. Suring your upkeep you may cast it for 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol or send it to the graveyard.)

This was originally going to be an experiment with using a counterspell with suncast, but that seemed a bit weird. Then I remembered blue was the card drawing color so instead of making an energize card that let you draw (which would be broken) I decided to make this instead and ignore the potential hassle and confusion of a suncasting counterspell.

CU-04 Refract 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant
Counter target spell cast using 2 or more colors of mana.

Simple but useful considering our multicolor focus, makes for a decent limited pick.

CU-05 Reflect
Instant
Return target creature played this turn to the top of its owner's deck.

Blue needed some soft removal of a sort.

Current sets:
Gateways (On hiatus)

Wed, 2010-12-22 17:57
Vinyacoire
Vinyacoire's picture

Suncasting counterspells doesn't work per the current wording. It triggers at the beginning of your upkeep, so unless your opponent is an idiot and casts a spell in response to entering the phase, there's no way it would work.

Oh, and Reflect has no mana cost Kazerima.

Wed, 2010-12-22 18:18
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
kikushadowblades's picture

I am very pleased with the submissions so far, and once anuttymous posts his up, we will start the collective process of assembling our actual 5 blue common cards. It's pretty crazy to see all the different variations on the suncast draw a card spell, interesting energize effects, and the different uses of sunburst so far.

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Wed, 2010-12-22 19:01
Kazerima
Kazerima's picture

Woops, my bad.

Reflect Blue mana symbol
Instant
Return target creature played this turn to the top of its owner's deck.

Current sets:
Gateways (On hiatus)

Wed, 2010-12-22 21:17
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

Not sure why it didn't dawn on me that the 2 mana had to be different colors. Oh well.
Anyways, I think energize could be dull and boring but if we make the effects right than it wont. Some of the effects will have to be lesser along the lines of Sakura Marauder but a few well made effects can make the game interesting. The effect you get can change the way you play. You may not want the effect on your turn so you might save your instant or flash creature for a different time. You may want your effect now so you will use your instant instead of trying to do something crazy on your opponent's turn. You may need to wait for a specific situation to get the most out of it so you might opt not to cast a spell at all hoping to bank on it later. It is all about the design we put into it.

Also, some of the energize cards should do something cumulative like charge counters or something. That is a more reasonable type of effect to get.

And yes, it works really well with suncast. Almost too well...

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Wed, 2010-12-22 23:05
Anuttymous
Administrator
Anuttymous's picture

A little thing before I forget - Energize could result in bad things, making you want to withhold your spells.

Sorry I was not there for a while, things to do, etc.

I think Energize should be on uncommon and rare cards only though, as it would trigger too often.
I'm good with Sunburst, though I think I would've liked to have a counter(+1/+1 & charge)-manipulating ability/mechanic to go with it. But Suncast is quite nice. Repetitive Rebound. I like it.

Going with cards that sets usually have...

CU01 Blue mana symbol
Instant
Counter target spell with no targets.

CU02 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant
Return up to two target nonland permanents to their owners' hands.

CU03 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Human Wizard
Sunburst
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, target player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of charge counters on CARDNAME.
0/0

CU04 4 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Serpent
Islandwalk
7/2

CU05 X mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Enchantment - Aura
Sunburst, flash
Enchant creature
Whenever enchanted creature would untap, remove a charge counter from CARDNAME. When the last is removed, sacrifice CARDNAME.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me anything you need

Wed, 2010-12-22 23:17
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
kikushadowblades's picture

Okay all cads are now in. Each member should comment on as many cards as they can and post their favorite 5 (make sure that you have 2 creatures, and 3 non creatures in your top 5). I will create a mse file with all the cards we have designed and a file with our final set.

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Wed, 2010-12-22 23:54
Anuttymous
Administrator
Anuttymous's picture

My top 5.

Lightbender Mage - Because it has many functionalities. During either player's turn.
Big Lazy Serpent - Just a simple thing.
Refract - As said, a powerful limited card, and useful against most multicolour decks. It'll make opponents more likely to use up one colour of mana, which they generally don't use, for whatever reasons their deck has.
Focus - Because it was the fairest of all the like-minded cards that did that, and an intuitive idea. Two mana to begin with, meaning it should be at instant speed, and three mana for an extra card every turn, which sounds okay at common.
My CU05 - Some sort of creature removal. Basically.

Not in any particular order.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me anything you need

Thu, 2010-12-23 00:41
Kazerima
Kazerima's picture

Anuttymous, keep in mind that Sunburst gives +1/+1 counters or charge counters and not both.

Current sets:
Gateways (On hiatus)

Thu, 2010-12-23 01:53
Vinyacoire
Vinyacoire's picture

Quick question for you guys. Does Suncast seem a bit overpowered? It does to me; my solution: drop the last sentence. It would then read:

Suncast <mana> (Exile this card as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile for <mana>.)

If we leave off the adding to graveyard if you don't pay it, I think that gives it a drawback so you have to keep Suncasting it to keep it and can't get it back from your graveyard. Plus, it seems more flavorful to boot; the card is eternally one with the sun, so to speak...

Thu, 2010-12-23 03:57
lord_joakim
lord_joakim's picture

I will comment on the cards soon.

Vinyacoire, your keyword fix makes no sense. Stick out your tongue What exactly do you intend to fix with that change? I don't see why we should punish players for getting actual use out of Call to Mind or Dralnu, Lich Lord. A happy smile I really don't get what you're trying to fix.

Thu, 2010-12-23 04:53
Anuttymous
Administrator
Anuttymous's picture

I think Vinyacoire, your fix just made it worse. Originally, they had to keep paying it, otherwise they lose it. Now they can just do it at any upkeep they want, and not worry about losing it.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me anything you need

Thu, 2010-12-23 05:08
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
kikushadowblades's picture

Just finished typing all the submitted cards so far into mse, and here are my choices for the 5 blue commons.
Creatures: Lightbender Mage - Really nice use of energize. I love how well this works with both aggresive and defensive strategies. I think it could could just 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol, but the concept is really awesome.
Revitalized Drake - Could make a good cycle of cards, plays well with blues general strategy
Non Creatures: Focus - Probably the best sunburst draw a card spell. The costing is very well done, and the isntant speed is a nice touch.
Reflect - This is an awesome effect for blue tempo control decks. I think we could get stronger flavor than this, but the effect is great.
Blinding Failure - I like how this fits into our environment, while also feeling like a nostalgic throwback to the powerful cryptic command

Card notes: The birds - Diurnal owl seemed very powerful to me at common, while fithian falcon,luster falcon, and sol sparrow were very underwhelming. With such limited space, each card has to say something. Luster falcon was proabably my 3rd favorite creature submission though.
The sunburst creatures - They were all great designs (Crystal Golem,Radiant Sentry, Sunmilling wizard, Anuttymous's submission). However they are above the creature power curve for blue. I think sunburst will get to shine in traditionally stronger creature colors. I especially liked the concept behind the two milling creatures, they might fit better at uncommon blue.
The serpents: Big Lazy serpent is really well designed, but not a very exciting common to open. Might have a space at uncommon. The vanilla 7/2 by Anuttymous was fine, but I don't think this set wants vanillas with the cramped space.
Trick of the light: nice idea, but the wording is too complex for common IMO.
Enchantments: Inspired dreams is a tad powerful for me, while anuttymous's was wordier than I would like. I really enjoyed Slow dehydration, and it would have made it in if there was more room.
Double Boomerang (unnamed bu Anuttmous): a little bit too simple for my tastes. Also extremely powerful for common.
Glimmer: It's much more of an uncommon, which is where wizards traditionally puts more untraditional counter spells.
Recharge: I don't want to touch Urza style effects if I don't have too. It's a cool card, but has scary potential.
Refract: Another counterspell that could easily work in the uncommon slot.
Regressing Glint: Power level is a little scary, in an agressive deck, this is very strong.
Repeating errors: Suncast just doesn't work properly on counterspells. You can only cast the spell on your upkeep, whereas counterspells traditionally work best on your opponents turn.
Thought Riddles: another card that fits better at uncommon. unless we have a graveyard matters theme, The think tank seems weak.
Tides of upheaval: probably too strong for it's own good.
Windborn: in a set with more cards, this would easily make it in, unfortunately, there just wasn't room.

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Thu, 2010-12-23 13:12
Vinyacoire
Vinyacoire's picture

Anuttymous wrote:
I think Vinyacoire, your fix just made it worse. Originally, they had to keep paying it, otherwise they lose it. Now they can just do it at any upkeep they want, and not worry about losing it.
Did you even read my post??

It still triggers on the NEXT upkeep and only the next. All I suggested was shaving off the sentence about the card going to the graveyard if you don't Suncast it again; that way, it would remain exiled permanently.

Let's take a look at using Dralnu, as Lord Joakim suggested. You can Flashback your card and upon resolution it exiles itself, ready for you to Suncast it again. If you don't, it goes to the graveyard, where Dralnu can Flashback it again; endless cycle. Yes, there are a few cards like Pull from Eternity that can still affect it. I guess i figured we could make more powerful cards if it had a drawback. If you guys want to make less powerful stuff, we can do it that way...

Thu, 2010-12-23 14:59
lord_joakim
lord_joakim's picture

Dralnu requires a 5-mana-investment and is a terrible card outside casual or EDH. I really don't think it's an issue. A happy smile

Now, I'll go kick kikushadowblades in the shins because he says that a 2/U sunburst hybrid is above the curve, which is utterly wrong. I'm sorry, but it ticks me off a little bit. It doesn't matter that it's a blue creature that might turn into a bear, because if you want it a bear, you have to spend nonblue mana on it. And I'm sorry to say so, but I really can't think of a multicolored creature which costs XY and is lesser than a 2/2. They tend to be bears. Of course they might exist, but I can't think of them.

Azorius First-Wing
Azorius Guildmage - investable with UU as well.
Crystalline Sliver
Dimir Guildmage
Gaea's Skyfolk
Galina's Knight
Hibernation Sliver
Izzet Guildmage
Jhessian Infiltrator
Meddling Mage
Puresight Merrow
Pygmy Hippo
Simic Guildmage
Sygg, River Guide
Vedalken Outlander
Vodalian Zombie
Zombie Outlander

A happy smile

Searching for these cards actually showed me that there were UY creatures that weren't bears. But I don't want to be told I'm making power creep when I'm not making power creep.

The problem with that card is not the power curve. It's weak and terrible. A GW 2/2 that mills for 2 won't see play either. The problem is that if we were to include this card, we'd have to make some mill support in an uncommon or perhaps a rare, and that's actually a little heavy for 45 cards to supply - but really, two cards might do it if one is repeatable.

Big Lazy Serpent was the necessary big blue serpent that usually exists in a common slot. I don't know how it would work in a miniset, but it's definitely not an uncommon normally.

I can't see to get my mind on the long card list throughoutly. Can anyone add the cards to a single file or should I do it myself?

Thu, 2010-12-23 18:12
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

I personally don't like the hybrid cards at common. I think sunburst at common shoudl be straightforward and we can branch out for the higher rarities.

Tide of Upheaval - Reminds me of Capsize which was pretty awesome. It is less expensive but also less more restrictive. It is a possibility though it seems a better fit at uncommon.

Blinding Failure - Hmmm. One side says it is great the other says it is too much for a common. Not sure.

Big Lazy Serpent - Would be great in a normal setting but in a miniset I think we can pass the serpent slot.

Thought Riddles - One of the few effects I could see at common for suncast.

Slow Dehydration - I would probably cost this at two. Other than that it is pretty cool.

Luster Falcon - Why would I care that my little 1/1 can block creatures with shadow? I wouldn't, this effect should be on a creature that is actually a usefull blocker.

Repressing Glint - Cool but the suncast should be at least two IMO.

Trick of Light - This feels red. I don't like the name.

Refract - I think this is the best card to come from the batch. I like it a lot. It is very powerful though as it doesn't just hose multicolored cards just if two colors were used. With that said though, I think it should be included. Maybe at Blue mana symbolBlue mana symbol?

Nutty's counterspell - Really??? This includes creatures, artifacts, enchantments, planeswalkers, and about half sorceries and instants. Need I say more?

Nutty's "tap" enchantment - Hmmm. I like the idea but there is a lot of moving pieces for a common. Also not sure if an X that doesn't mean anything (although we know why it is there) is good or not. WOrding is missing a very important "instead" though...

Draw spells - I like my enchantment a lot. Maybe it should have a clause that sacs it when there are no counters. Other than that the suncast card is pretty cool although very good. I am going with the 2 and 3 version.

My picks:

Lightbender Mage
Nutty's sunburst miller (with wording fix)
Focus (but as a sorcery)
Slow Dehydration at 1U
Refract at UU

We should probably understand waht we are working with as far as color rarity breakdown.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Thu, 2010-12-23 21:23
kikushadowblades
Featured Sets Editor
kikushadowblades's picture

Suncast is most likely going to be set in where we have it now, I don't think a change is necessary to the wording. It is not overpowered right now, it just gives you the option to get the effects again if you still need it.
Lord_joakim: I can tell you're upset by my claim that the sunburst creatures were above blue's power curve. It's my fault, because I should have been more specific. I meant that radiant sentry (my own card admittedly) was above the power curve. It fits as a 3/3 with shroud for 3 mana, and a 4/4 with shroud for 4 mana. The two milling cards were both correct in power level, but the sunburst felt forced (if i can pay an additional color of mana I can mill exactly one more card). Crystal golem was also correct in power level because it requires 4 colors of mana to be a 5/5. According to wooly thoctar, that's okay. I spoke rashly, and was incorrect. As for your other points, the serpent was very well designed, but how many times have you been excited to see the obligatory serpent from any set in your sealed pool at a prerelease? They just don't make for exciting cards, and we can't include them with such cramped space.
I have all the cards typed up in mse, the current file is here, http://www.mediafire.com/?d293l7nqa224otb .
Guitarweeps: We actually do have focus as a sorcery, it was one of my cards, resurgent knowledge.

My 'Stuff hub'
Everything in Moderation

Thu, 2010-12-23 22:40
Anuttymous
Administrator
Anuttymous's picture

Had a thought to make the milling mage less underwhelming, by giving it:

"Remove X +1/+1 counters from CARDNAME: Target player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard."

rather than the enter the battlefield effect.

Also, I did sorta screw that counter, didn't I?

CU01 Blue mana symbol
Instant
Counter target instant or sorcery spell with no targets.

Should work a bit fairer?

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me anything you need

Fri, 2010-12-24 00:58
lord_joakim
lord_joakim's picture

I love that counter Anuttymous.

I am going to take a look through the set now. A happy smile

http://www.mediafire.com/?vqa6wl41vk2qtpy

I uploaded the same set file with comments. The cards remaining are the ones I see as probable. Some are, however, better fit for uncommon.

I propose we make a proper design skeleton now, if we only are going to make 5 commons, we should make sure our cards fit the skeleton, really...

Fri, 2010-12-24 01:26
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
Guitarweeps's picture

A skeleton is good. With 45 cards we could have 40 in color which is 8 per color and then 5 colorless, land, multicolor. If we have 5 commons for each color than that would probably be 2 uncommons and then a rare/mythic.

Check out my updated set hub.

Site Administrator

Fri, 2010-12-24 01:32
lord_joakim
lord_joakim's picture

Suddenly I begin to agree with the main thread discussion on the side that we need more space than 45 cards.