Lumehaven community set

continued...
Tue, 2010-10-12 18:13
Guitarweeps
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Um, it reads "Creatures blocking ~ have first strike"
The '~' is the same as CARDNAME so it only gives creatures that block the Hammertow Crusher first strike. It does not get first strike under any circumstance aside from other cards.

I do not think that mass enchantment removal is a good idea for an enchantment block. Counter-productive.

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Wed, 2010-10-13 07:42
Anuttymous
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Oh sorry, I missed the ~
In that case it ought to be just fine.

Maybe just one, highly expensive rare mass enchantment removal? Just for some way to justify the slightly more powerful enchantment creatures.

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Wed, 2010-10-13 17:28
Guitarweeps
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Mmmm. I don't think we should raise the power level based on the answers we provide in the set.

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Wed, 2010-10-13 18:54
Anuttymous
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No, but there are roughly 25 'destroy all enchantment' type things ranging across all rarities (except mythic), though many are old ones. Newer ones, there are about 10 or so. However, enchantment destruction is generally cheaper than artifact destruction. Also, enchantment creatures don't have the same 'can fit in most any deck' specialness due to the colorless.
But again, I think the boost will be quite weak, and nothing worse than having a Baneslayer Angel dropped in front of you.

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Thu, 2010-10-14 03:23
theonlyjett
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I think if you wanted to do a destroy all enchantment spell, it needs to be a destroy all enchantments, artifacts, and creatures kind of deal. Where it's not so blatantly against enchantments. Just as reference, Mirrodin had no destroy all artifacts spells in it and the only ones around at the time where destroy all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments, and they weren't in Mirrodin at all. The only spell that destroys all artifacts and nothing else that I can find is Shatterstorm in tenth edition. So I don't think a destroy all enchantments only spell in really appropriate.

As far as enchantment creature power levels, they should be the same power up to 3 CMC, only a slight difference in 4 and 5 CMC (like costing a card 3C or CCC instead of 2CC), and a bit more than that 6 and up (3CC, 2CCC, or 5C instead of 4CC for instance). This is only because enchantment removal is naturally better than artifact removal. I don't think we should mess with the cost or availability of enchantment removal at all.

Thu, 2010-10-14 13:52
Anuttymous
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I think rather than the subtle changes to power levels of enchantment creatures, maybe we could do the flip side and include plenty of ways over overpowering them that compensates the somewhat easier removal. This would open up plenty of design space, and make it softer on limited play.
Also, maybe we'll disclude mass enchantment removal alone, and opt for a more expensive multi-permanent destruction.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Thu, 2010-10-14 17:00
Guitarweeps
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I like that idea jett.

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Thu, 2010-10-14 17:10
theonlyjett
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For some reason, GW, I think that was the best response to any post on any thread I have ever posted in my life. This and a very attractive regular that came through drive-thru (I'm a manager at McD's A happy smile) again after she saw I was working and bought another coffee and then admitted that she did so just to make sure that she told me that she hoped I had a great day really did make me have a great day.

Thanks.

Fri, 2010-10-15 00:06
Guitarweeps
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Haha. Glad you had a good day.

Trying out some new cards:

Land search

Natural Bounty 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Sorcery - C
Replicate - 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Search your library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield.

Black -X/-X

Stripped of Self 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Instant - C
Target creature gets -2/-2 and loses all abilities until end of turn.

Double strike weenie

CARDNAME White mana symbol
Enchantment Creature - Human Spirit - C
Ambience - As long as ~ is enchanted, it has double strike.
1/1

Hammer of Forthaw 3 mana symbol
Artifact - Equipment - R
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, put that many charge counters on ~.
Equipped creature gets +3/+0 and has trample.
Equip - 2 mana symbol
Remove a charge counter from ~: Add Red mana symbol to your mana pool.

Hopefully, sometime this weekend I can scrub the posts to find the missing cards like I meant to like two weeks ago.

Check out my updated set hub.

Fri, 2010-10-15 17:45
Anuttymous
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I'm not too sure about replicable land search, might be a bit too much. Maybe we can use one of the other keywords, or something new and simple.
I like Stripped of Self, although the losing ability part seems blue. Dunno if black would get away with it.
The double striker seems like a no brainer, really, that's what I would've suggested too.
I like the Hammer, though maybe it would be too powerful? I couldn't really say at the moment, however, so lets leave it until playtesting.

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Fri, 2010-10-15 20:18
Guitarweeps
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Ever heard of Sudden Spoiling?

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Fri, 2010-10-15 21:29
Anuttymous
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Ah, yeah, I s'pose. It is Time Spiral, which is exceptional, but who cares. It's a cool card. Maybe it's more of an uncommon card, however? Dunno if lots of these going around is a good idea.

[edit]Also, something that was suggested before: Moonfolk. As there are Vedalken Artificiers, maybe we could have Moonfolk Enchanters? I'd like to see Moonfolk as a common race, for blue. And we need enchantment-ey Artificier creature type.[/edit]

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Fri, 2010-10-15 22:18
Guitarweeps
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I was gonna make it uncommon but the slot was common so I just went with that. Stick out your tongue

How about just Auramancer?

And, originally the land search had sac a land for replicate but I thought that was way to good. I don't think that 5 to search for two lands, 7 to search for three, and so on is too good.

I think that the double striker has to be like that no matter who suggested it.

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Fri, 2010-10-15 22:37
Anuttymous
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Don't worry too much about what rarity the slot is, that's more of a guideline.
Auramancer should be fine. You good with Moonfolk?
It just seems odd having land search with replicate. Dunno why, it's probably just me. I suppose it is basically a Rampant Growth each time, so yeah, lets go with it.

Oh, how about this for an experimental card to go in the blue Johnny card slot, used by Polymorph and its like:

CARDNAME Blue mana symbol
Sorcery
Target opponent reveals his or her hand. Choose a creature card and put it onto the battlefield under that player's control.

Just to try to see Johnny come up with something.

[edit]Wait, for Natural Bounty - untapped? Is that a good idea?[/edit]

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Fri, 2010-10-15 22:55
Guitarweeps
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Interesting. Might see it combined with Brainwash or something. I like it.

Moonfolk is fine. I have never used Moonfolk but no reason not to start.

Natural Bounty - I was trying to make it more balanced with the fact it cost 3 CMC. Maybe the replicate should also be 3?

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Sat, 2010-10-16 01:45
Anuttymous
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I don't think it'll be too powerful as is, really. I'm happy to leave it until playtesting before changing the replicate or entering tapped/untapped.

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Sat, 2010-10-16 08:09
Guitarweeps
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So I looked up Moonfolk in the gatherer and does anyone know what Moonfolk are flavorwise? I missed that whole block. So far, aside from one legendary creature, they all fly and have a "return land you control to your hand" ability activation cost. I am getting reservations about using them...

@Nutty - I don't remember your reaction to my backstory of the Ota. I am just wondering what you thought because it involves them transgressing their physical forms until they break the Bastion of Suns and regain physical form. It is important I think because of creature types. I envisioned that before they escaped their plane they were a mix of races so they could be any race, but should they also be spirits or something? The story should be put up on the wiki page I think.

Also, I would like to take a crack at developing a story for the beginning of the conflict as well as featuring our auramancer planeswalker. If you don't have any problem with that I am going to start brainstorming for it. I am trying to beome an author eventually so I need some practice. A happy smile

New cards:

Lightgrinder 3 mana symbol
Artifact - R
Whenever you cast an enchantment spell, put a charge counter on Lightgrinder.
2 mana symbol,Tap symbol: Target player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of charge counters on Lightgrinder.

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Sat, 2010-10-16 12:41
Pichoro
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Guitarweeps wrote:
So I looked up Moonfolk in the gatherer and does anyone know what Moonfolk are flavorwise? I missed that whole block. So far, aside from one legendary creature, they all fly and have a "return land you control to your hand" ability activation cost. I am getting reservations about using them...

From Wikipedia...

Wikipedia wrote:
Native to Kamigawa. The Moonfolk, a beautiful, cloud-dwelling race of long-eared, blue-skinned humanoids, are one of the most hermetic and mysterious races on the plane. They are highly manipulative, and detest the other races to the point that if an outsider were even to set foot in one of their sky palaces it would be taken as an insult. The Soratami are accomplished telepaths and mirror-mages whose patron Kami is Mochi, the Kami of the Crescent Moon. Despite their seclusion, the Soratami are allies of both the Minamo school and Eiganjo Castle. The Soratami had a hand in the sparking of the Kami War, by helping the human Lord of Eiganjo, Konda, kidnap a vital spirit from the Kami realm. In reality, they hoped to bring the wrath of the Kami world against Konda, thus eliminating the most powerful nation on Kamigawa and allowing them to rule in its place. Two decades into the war their plans started to unravel, with Mochi failing to manipulate the ronin Toshiro Umezawa as needed. Toshiro stole the captive Kami from Eiganjo, forcing the Soratami to mount a disastrous invasion of the Jukai Forest. The captive Kami was soon freed and the war ended without the Soratami succeeding.

The word "Soratami" comes from the Japanese 'sora' meaning 'sky' and 'tami' meaning 'race' or 'society'. The Soratami's long ears are an allusion to the Japanese children's myth of the rabbit in the moon. In the game, the Moonfolk all have the ability to fly, and also generally require their controller to return land cards to hand in exchange for different effects. As this is typically a costly demand, few moonfolk were featured in high-level tournament decks. An exception was Meloku the Clouded Mirror, whose ability to exchange lands for a small army proved to be extremely potent.

That's got a lot of information about the Soratami culture and less about the Moonfolk race - but that's natural as currently, those two words are interchangeable.

The MTGS Wiki is actually even less helpful: http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Moonfolk

Sat, 2010-10-16 16:14
Anuttymous
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Ah, thanks Pich. Because the Soratami are just the name of the Moonfolk in Kamigawa, that part is mostly unecessary. I can't see why the Moonfolk couldn't have something slightly different for this set. Maybe we could give them all flying and return an enchantment effect, or something completely different?

I'd be happy for you to make a little story about it, including the Auramancer planeswalker, however not sure about the name. I don't mind if you come up with a name, there isn't anything I've got in mind, but bare in mind it could change later on. We'll see. Also, try not to mention anything that would define the card itself, there's nothing certain about the card.

Lightgrinder looks pretty good, I don't see too much wrong with it.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Sat, 2010-10-16 22:15
Guitarweeps
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I like the return enchantment idea.

Let's talk about the Auramancer. Consider this blurb (as if on MTG website):

Spoiler:
Ethol Kalliot wields white magic. His specialty is auramancy and other enchantmal magics. Although he is a very capable warrior, he prefers not to fight which led him to practice auramancy. With his poweful enchantmal magic he can still guide the direction of a fight without actually fighting himself.

Ethol was born to a plane at war. As a captian defending his city he was forced to watch the entire city die, to include the men he was leading and his family. His spark ignited and he began searching for ways to cope. He found it in the study of auramancy. His studies eventually led him to Lumehaven to study at the Bastion of Suns.

Now Ethol currently resides in Lumehaven carrying the task of leading the defense of the both Bastions. With his unparalleled enchantmal magic and excellent tactical execution, he makes a perfect man for the job. He carries a powerful gem which is a both a source of mana and focus for his spell casting. He keeps it close at all times and won't speak to anyone about where he obtained it.

Although he is volunteering his service to defend the Bastions, he has his own quest which is known only to him. After watching his plane die, he has concluded that the physical body is weak. He hopes to harness the power of the Bastion of Suns to allow lumination to all deserving beings.

Usually, when I am designing a planeswalker I make a list of abilities that seem to capture the flavor of the character. Using the above as a foundation for the character, we can brainstorm some ideas. First ask yourself "what captures the essence of an aurmancer". Here are some starting ideas, all is of course subject ot change.

'+' or '0':
- Target permanent is an enchantment in addition to its other types.
- Put a white enchantment aura token onto the battlefield attached to target creature with "Enchanted creature has vigilance."
- Attach target Aura you control to another permanent. (I like this one. Thanks Jett!)
- Target permanent cannot attack or activate abilities during its controller's next turn. (As if he put up some type of protective or binding shield)
OR - Tap target permanent. It loses all abilities until your next upkeep.
- Target creature gains lifelink and gets +2/+2 until end of turn for each aura attached to it.

Minus:
- Put a white enchantment aura token onto the battlefield attached to target creature with "Enchanted creature gets +1/+2 and has lifelink."
- Put an white enchantment token onto the battlefield with "Creatures you control get +1/+1 and have vigilance."
- Put target permanent card in your graveyard onto the battlefield. It is an enchantment in addition to its other types.

Ultimate:
- Enchanted creatures you control get +2/+2 and protection from the color of your choice until end of turn.
OR - You get an emblem with "Creatures you control get +1/+1 and have protection from nonwhite". (higher cost)
- Search your library and graveyard for any number of enchantment cards and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
- You may put a token on the battlefield under your control for each enchantment which is a copy of that enchantment.

@Nutty - What happened to the set file? It isn't there anymore.

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Sat, 2010-10-16 23:11
Anuttymous
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Enchantmal or enchantmental? Not sure which works best.

I like the idea of him being against the Ota because he's already seen himself lose a plane, and he's determined not to do it again.
I don't really like the sound of this powerful gem. Makes him seem... Vulnerable.
Last paragraph about wanting the power of Lumination for his own bestowing I do like. We could perhaps have him come up twice, but maybe corrupted in the last set, because he used too much power from the Bastion of Moons, trying to defend the Bastion of Suns.

I'd like to keep the Aura token as a minus, so that it won't be used as commonly.
In keeping with his non-aggressive beliefs, I think the plus ability that renders a permanent useless for a turn, e.g. tapping and losing abilities, or can't attack or activate abilities.
Then for this big ultimate, I like the searching for enchantments, however that could be quite powerful, and could cause some immediate wins, so maybe just Auras instead? Means we don't have to put up the loyalty cost too high for proper use.

I completely forgot to put the set file up on the wiki, just gimme a moment, sorry. I'll so the same for the story too.

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Mon, 2010-10-18 20:54
Guitarweeps
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I like Enchantmal but whatever.

The stone is supposed to be somethign vulnerable. But I also wanted to make it have story significance, though nto sure what. Many planeswalkers do use an object as a focus for their spell casting you know. At least Gideon, Nissa, and I think Liliana.

That would def be interstesting to have two versions of the same planeswalker in the same block. It would only work if we did 4 sets though.

Ok, going through the set file. Not sure if some of these are in the rejects file but here are some of the missing. Be aware it is a lot. I tried to leave out the ones that seemed decided on or if you used two cards in a post and not the rest i assumed you decided not to take them. Again, these are not neccessarily ones that need to go in the set but we may have overlooked. Do we still have a reject file somewhere?

Also, I think Harsh Reality should just be Erase. And Bathe in Lumination shoudl be instant. It would make a super fun combat trick!

Spoiler:
Phenomenon of Time 2UUU
Enchantment - M
When you cast ~, take an extra turn after this one.
You may look at the top card of your library. (You may do this at any time)

Phenomenon of Spirit 3WW
Enchantment - M
When you cast ~, put two 2/2 white Spirit creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield.
Creatures you control get +1/+1.

Phenomenon of Rage 2RR
Enchantment - M
When you cast ~, after the first postcombat main phase this turn, there's an additional combat phase followed by an additional main phase. At the beginning of that combat, untap all creatures that attacked this turn.
Creatures you control have haste.

Aspect of Decay 3BB
Enchantment - U
When ~ enters the battlefield, return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. ~ becomes an Aura attached to that creature.
Enchanted creature gets +1/-1 and has intimidate.

Servant of the Bastion 1WW
Creature Enchantment - Human Cleric R
Incessant (When this leaves the battlefield, you may attach any Auras attached to it to another target permanent they can enchant.)
Whenever you cast an enchantment spell, you may gain 2 life. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
I will never partake of the bastardization the Ota offer their converts.
2/3

Summoner's Fury 4GG
Enchantment R
When ~ enters the battlefield, look at the top six cards of your library. You may put a creature card from among them onto the battlefield. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order. ~ becomes an Aura with enchant creature attached to that creature.
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and has trample.

Idealist Monk 1WW
Creature - Human Cleric
Vigilance
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control five or more enchantments, draw a card.
1/4

Locked in Lights 4W
Enchantment
Whenever an enchantment enters the battlefield, put a charge counter on CARDNAME.
Remove five charge counters from CARDNAME: CARDNAME becomes a 7/7 Enchantment Creature until end of turn.
Remove a charge counter from CARDNAME: Attach target Aura you control to CARDNAME. Activate this ability only if CARDNAME is a creature.

Elfcoat 1WW
Enhantment - aura
Enchant enchantment creature
All enchantment creatures get +1/+1 for each other enchantment.
"they just wanna share the light" -- a luminelf

Guiding Presence 2W
Enchanment -- Spirit Aura
Enchant creature
: Enchanted creature gets protection from the color of your choice until end of turn.
~ may be played from the graveyard as if it were in your hand.
"The True Master's destiny lies within his student." -- The Book of Three, part 3

Dawn Ota 2W
Creature — Ota Cleric ::
Whenever you cast an enchantment spell, you may gain 2 life.
2/2

Arcanum Binds U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, sacrifice unless it's attached to a creature you control.
If enchanted creature would untap, instead it doesn't.
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, you may attach CARDNAME to that creature.

Mind Reap IB
Sorcery U
Replicate BB
Target player discards a card at random.

Spell Stutter 1U
Instant U
Replicate 2U
Counter target spell unless its controller pays .

Kabaru Centaur 1G
Creature - Centaur - C
Ambience - As long as this is enchanted, it gets +1/+1 and cannot be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.
2/2

Druid of Elhav 1G
Creature - Elf Druid - R
: Add G to your mana pool for each enchantment you control.
The Elven druids have spent ages perfecting the art of extrating mana from the Bastion of Suns.
1/1

Axe Thrower 2RR
Creature - Dwarf Warrior - U
When ~ attacks, you may have ~ deal 1 damage to target creature defending player controls.
2/2

Lifebonded Spirit 2WW
Enchantment Creature - Spirit
Lifelink, flying
When ~ is put into the graveyard from the battlefield, if it is a creature, it becomes an Enchantment Aura with "enchant creature" attached to a creature you control.
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and has lifelink.
2/2

OR

The Luminator 4WW
Enchantment Creature - Spirit Avatar
Lifelink
3W: Flip CARDNAME and attach it to target creature.
5/5
//
The Lumination
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +5/+5 and has lifelink.
3W: Unflip CARDNAME and unattach it from enchanted creature.

Refracting Bond
Enchantment Land
Refracting Bond is not a spell and does not use the stack)
When Refracting Bond enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you pay .
: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Forming week bonds to rich lands is not easy, but often worth it. -- Somebody important

OR

Refracting Bond Mk.II
Land
: Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool. {Spend this mana only to cast enchantment spells and activate abilities of enchantments/Activate this ability only if you control an enchantment.}

Ascended Benefiction 2W
Instant
You may return a white aura with converted mana cost 3 you control from the battlefield to your hand instead of paying ~'s mana cost.
Target creature gets +3/+3 and gains lifelink until end of turn.

Bastion Sunflats
Enchantment Land - R
T, remove a charge counter from ~: Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool.
Whenever an enchantment enters the battlefield, put a charge counter on ~.
Its beauty unparalleled; its mana pure.

Elhav Purist 1G
Creature - Elf U
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you return an aura card from your graveyard to your hand.
We must defend the honor of Suns. For I cannot live without Lumehaven's beauty.
2/2

Growing Essence G
Instant
Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
You may exile an Aura from the battlefield and return it into play attached to the permanent it was at the end of your turn. If you do, target creature gets +4/+4 instead.

Auressence Phial 5
Artifact - R
Whenever an enchantment enters the battlefield, exile the top card of your library and put a charge counter on ~.
T, remove 3 charge counters from ~: You may play a card exiled by ~ without paying its mana cost.
The secrets it stores are known to noone until the right time.

Soul of Bliss 1W
Creature - Spirit
Defender
~ gets +0/+1 for each Aura you control.
0/3

Binding of Suns 1WW
Enchantment - Aura - C
Enchant creature
Shroud
Enchanted creature cannot attack, block, or activate abilities.
The Bastion of Suns had the power to exalt any being as well as to humble.

Lurking Refflar 1BB
Creature - Zombie Horror - U
~ cannot attack if defending player controls an aura.
The darkest magics of the Bastion of Moons can turn any corpse into a horrific Refflar. It doesn't just reanimate it, it rebuilds it.
4/4

Settling Winds W
Instant - C
Replicate 2W
Prevent 1 damage each attacking creature would deal this turn.

Mind Extract 2B
Sorcery - U
Replicate 1B
Target player discards a card and you draw a card.

Muscle Surge G
Instant - C
Replicate 1R
Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.

Blessing of the Bastion 1W
Instant
Replicate 2G
Gain 4 life.

Instilled Growth G
Instant - C
Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
Ambience - If that creature is enchanted, it gets two +1/+1 counters instead.

Otagriff 2WW
Enchantment creature - Griffin
Flying
Incessant (When this is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you may attach any Auras attached to it to any permanents they could enchant.)
3/3

Dwarven Fireforger R
Creature - Dwarf Smith U
T, sacrifice a mountain: Add RR to your mana pool.
1/1

Hammertow Crusher 2R
Creature - Dwarf Warrior C
Creatures blocking ~ have first strike.
They carry hammers that could reduce a forest troll's head to a mosspile...if they had enough time to swing it.
5/2

And I don't think that the enchantment enhancing blocker should be Elek Longbeard. Elek is a leader of battle. This ability is more shaman or wizardlike. Also, Elek is the iconic leader of the Dwarves which as yet is pretty much unexplored flavorwise in magic. He needs to scream Dwarven flavor. I don't have a grand idea or anything but I am brainstorming.

EDIT: Also, please remove Prismatic Blast from the file. It is way too good and damage with replicate was done in similar fashion already.

Check out my updated set hub.

Tue, 2010-10-19 11:17
Icarael
Icarael's picture

Since a lot of my suggestions seem to have been discarded, I'll try again with a few more ideas. Hopefully I'll be able to fill in some of the slots needed for the set.

Proscribe 3 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant Colorless mana symbol
Counter target spell. Until end of turn, no copies of that spell may be played. If a copy of that spell would enter the battlefield, put it into its owner's graveyard instead.

Eyeless Hunter 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature- Zombie Colorless mana symbol/Blue mana symbol
Eyeless Hunter can't be blocked by enchantment creatures.
Eyeless Hunter can't be blocked by enchanted creatures.
Those without eyes cannot be blinded by the light.
1/1

Opal Chevalier 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Enchantment Colorless mana symbol
Whenever you cast a creature spell, Opal Chevalier becomes a 3/3 Illusion Knight creature with first strike until end of turn. It's still an enchantment.

Ephemeral Wings White mana symbol
Instant Colorless mana symbol
Target creature gets +1/+1, has flying, and is an enchantment in addition to its other types until end of turn.

Careful Calculations 3 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Sorcery Blue mana symbol
Exile the top three cards of your library. You may put a noncreature card exiled this way into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

Mirror-Shell Caryatid 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Enchantment Creature- Prism Construct Red mana symbol
Defender
Whenever Mirror-shell Caryatid is targeted by an instant or sorcery spell, you may pay Blue mana symbolBlue mana symbol. If you do, choose a new target for that spell.
0/3

Glorywing Angel 4 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Enchantment Creature- Angel Red mana symbol
Flying, lifelink
Ambience— 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbol: Enchantments you control gain protection from the color of your choice until end of turn. Play this ability once per turn and only if Glorywing Angel is enchanted.
Undeterred by the chaos of battle, she flies in to shield her devoted followers.
3/4

Final Forgetfulness Black mana symbol
Sorcery Red mana symbol
Choose target card in a graveyard other than a basic land card. Search its owner's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that card and exile them. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
Some things, once you lose them, can never be found again.

Comments and criticism is appreciated, since I'll also be putting them into my sets, particularly Hekaton.

"Take the bridge, men! Victory! Victory is ou - Retreat! RETREAT!"

Tue, 2010-10-19 17:55
Guitarweeps
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Proscribe - I like it but I think it needs different wording. "Counter target spell. Until end of turn counter any spell with the same name as the countered spell." Copies take names so it does the same but is cleaner.

Eyeless Hunter - It is good. I nice way for black to get around the enchantments. I think it should be 2/1.

Opal Chevalier - Pretty good. Interesting take instead of the Urza block way.

Careful Calculations - You could just reveal or look vice exile. Also, only nets you one card so it could cost much less. Maybe 1 even. Look at Impulse.

Mirror-Shell - I dont' get it? Why would anyone even want to target it? It is a 0/3.

Glorywind Angel - I think we would want our iconic angel of the set to be stronger than this. At least 5/5 at that cost. I think the activation could be cheaper too sicne it does have to be enchanted. I think we should take more ideas for this slot and compare.

Final Forgetfullness - "Exile target nonland card from target player's graveyard. Search its owner's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that card and exile them. Then that player shuffles his or her library." Should be instant. Still strictly worse than it's Time Spiral counterpart which is fine. Although, giving it replicate would be really cool and I think would fit replicate really well. High cost though like 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbol.

I don't think that people neccessarily don't like your cards. It is just that we know you are using some in your set. I don't think it is neccessary to put them in both ya know?

@Nutty - Hey I was thinking. Besides just randomly submitting cards as we think of them, maybe you could give us "assignments" every week or something. Like, hey come up with the rare or mythic demon for the set. Some of the bigger things. Like maybe right now we could be thinking about stuff for the planeswalking auramancer. We can all submit ideas for flavor and mechanics and then hash out the best ones at the end or cut and paste some. That would be in addition to random ideas not replacing... just an idea. You can do what you wish.

Check out my updated set hub.

Wed, 2010-10-20 18:42
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Hey guys, sorry for a short absence.
I think Guitarweeps covered most of the parts about the cards. I like the Angel, personally, though it would be nice to make the ability cost 1 mana, and add "Activate this ability only once per turn."

Would it perhaps be a good idea to get all the cards submitted so far into one place (the wiki and the set file), and let people choose at the end which one or two of each we like? I'm happy to go through the whole thread and add each card to the file, then to the wiki, if it would make it easier. I'll include every single card (excluding previous versions of a card redone).

Also, after doing that, it would be nice to point out what positions we need filling, as I think we're ready to start filling out rares and miythics. For now, I wouldn't mind ideas for the enchantment planeswalker's abilities. Doesn't have to be all 3 (4?!) just some ideas.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
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Wed, 2010-10-20 21:09
theonlyjett
theonlyjett's picture

I like what you have so far in regards to the planeswalker. I feel like he should not be uber powerful. I mean, his card can be powerful over all, but not him personally. Like if he dueled another planeswalker just in magic, he'd probably lose. His thing is basically taking a leader role in a fight, helping other creatures to win their battles and boosting them through the use of auras. So each ability should really be about helping each creature and all of them as a whole. Also, I think it would be extra cool if every ability had clear synergy with each other and were obviously Auramancer abilities.

An auramancer wouldn't be complete without a way to sling auras. So either go with aura tokens, or have him tutor for auras. I completely disagree that aura tokens should not work with incessant. There shouldn't be a reason to make aura tokens work any differently than normal auras, at least with any foreseeable interaction in this set and preferably in a standard environment. I believe it's worth rewriting incessant if necessary.

So, I think for his first ability, one of the following is preferable to me:
+1: Put a white enchantment aura token onto the battlefield attached to target creature with, "Enchanted creature has [vigilance|first strike|lifelink|+1/+1|+0/+2|." (Pick what you want, me favorite is vigilance or first strike as it represents his battle knowledge being bestowed upon the creatures.)
+1: Search your library for a white aura card and put it into your hand.

The second ability should be one of the following:
+0: Attach target aura you control to target permanent it could enchant.
-1: Attach target aura to target permanent it could enchant.

The third should be strong, but not overwhelming. Sort of like an overrun for white kinda thing, but in my opinion, to make it have synergy, it should only include enchanted and enchantment creatures. Maybe even make it a bit more plausible to use it twice in a game.
-4: Enchanted and enchantment creatures you control get +2/+2 and [first strike|vigilance|protection from the color of your choice] (whatever they don't already have from the first ability of course) until end of turn.

Maybe start him at 3 loyalty. Then you could use the "ultimate" the turn after, but if you don't have a lot of enchanted or enchantment creatures, I don't feel like it's a big deal. This also makes it easier to potentially use his ultimate twice or more.

That's just my thoughts on that matter.
-------
As for the wiki, yeah, I think every card should go into its appropriate slot in the wiki and we can decide which ones we like better after we flesh it out more. That way, we might choose cards that we wouldn't have before cause they may have synergy with other cards that we haven't thought of yet.

Wed, 2010-10-20 21:17
Guitarweeps
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Might be helpful but not sure if it is worth the trouble of it all. Also, should we put anything on the wiki about groups, places, or characters? Sometimes the setting helps inspire cards... well at least cardnames. That can always be done in the final stages though. I have some stuff types up. Nutty, can I send you the outline of the short story when I complete it? Then you can look it over and let me know what you think before I start putting in the harder work.

Check out my updated set hub.

Wed, 2010-10-20 21:26
theonlyjett
theonlyjett's picture

I honestly think that all the info should go up on the wiki, imo.

Wed, 2010-10-20 21:49
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

I will (eventually) put all the cards, storyline, and anything else already come up onto the wiki.
'Weeps, you can send it to me by email, or Pifro, or just here, when it's done. I'll post my email then, when you need it.

As for the Auramancer, I think a big ability that would be reusable would be good.
How about a -4, like Garruk, which is noticably reusable. I think searching for an Aura and attaching it to something would be a simple but powerful effect.
A -1 that boosts enchanted/enchantment creatures, would be synergistic. And a +1 Aura token would work, I guess. Maybe +2, actually. Maybe have +2 being the boost, and -1 being the Aura.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Wed, 2010-10-20 22:18
Guitarweeps
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jett - Yes, he would indeed be a planeswalker that doesn't fare as well on his own. He specializes in enhancing the abilities of others. With that said, he is not without an arsenal of extremely powerful enchantments that can knock down some enemies. I envision him casting things like Locked in Lights and Lumehaven Commander.

Thoughts on your suggestions:
1st - The first suggestion can only increase his loyalty if their is a creature on the board. Not a good idea unless it is like Elspeth where there is another positive action. The second is way too good card advantage. Especially in an aura based set.

2nd - First one is still my favourite although it should probably be a +1. On the second, I don't like that it can steal enchantments. I don't see that being the way he does business. This might be a good one for the second card if we do it though...

Ultimate - I don't think that he would limit his benefits to that. If he cast this spell, it would be to benefit EVERYONE fighting with him. Unless, we combined it with a + ability of "Target permanent is an enchantment in addition to its other types". Also, I think it should be permanent. As an emblem maybe to represent an enchantment.

Overall, I think that four abilities might be good with this guy. I still like the binding ability for the first one. Then we could have an aura generator and the aura mover. I think we should take some time to brainstorm the ultimate.

EDIT:
Oh, and here is what I gathered on locations, groups, and characters. Comments are welcome; names were made up on the fly or taken from flavor text of future sight.

Spoiler:
Locations

Elhav – Elven palace city which is right on the borders of the Kabaru forest and Phalan plains.
Forthaw – Dwarven stone palace city built into a mountain by the same name. It is the pride of Dwarves all over the plane and represents their greatest accomplishment. No siege has ever taken it and it has the best natural and forged defenses of anywhere.

Kabaru – Vast forest range with beautiful valleys and hills. Populated by many living beings including a vast variety of predatory beasts.

Vindr – City port set by the sea. Home to stormchasers and many students of the Bastion of Moons.

Arcana – Advanced city with the plane’s best universities mostly devoted to teachings of the
Bastion of Suns; although they also study the Bastion of Moons. Beings from all over the plane come here to study as well as planeswalkers from all over the multiverse.

Revered Bastions – The two Bastions sit at opposite ends of Lumehaven and have very powerful magical energies. Any spells cast within the proximity of a Bastion easily draws mana and is enhanced in power. The Bastions are considered a legendary phenomenon and are both studied heavily and revered. Lumehaven believes that the Bastions balance the natural powers of the world and that if one were to dissipate that Lumehaven would be violently thrown out of balance. The two Bastions share the same fundamentals but are very different:

Bastion of Suns - Has the power of purification from disease and injury, enchantmental qualities, physical enhancement, and resurrection - Auramancers flock here to study the enchantmental magic.

Bastion of Moons - Has a darker power, which can be used for foresight, deceptive magic such as illisionary, necromancy, mind infiltration/inception, and is more focused on temporary magic such as spells - Sorcerers flock here to enhance their sorcery.

Groups

Vidian rebels – Group of a mix of races to include dwarves, humans, elves, and centaurs. They are a nomadic group. They travel the plane trading and hire out as mercenaries. They are often hired across the plane to handle the most dangerous tasks.

Order of Sultai – A strict order of Lumehaven residents who are charged with the study, maintenance, and guardianship of both Bastions. The higher officials are all luminated and that is the striving goal for all within the order. They are further divided into the Enlightened of Suns and Blessed of Moons which work in tandem but believe their efforts to be better than their counterparts.

Ota – Group of aphysical beings which come to Lumehaven in search of the Bastion of Suns power. They are seeking a way to return to physical form and believe the Bastion will provide that. They attempt to do so peacefully but once the Order of Sultai refuse to grant access they turn to violent means.

Characters

Ethol Kalliot – Planeswalker and powerful auramancer. Charged with the defense of the Bastions.
Tobius Mallon – Highest official of the Enlightened of Suns and close friend to Ethol. Practices powerful enchantment magic based on “spell-auras” which have powerful effects as they are set and once they dissipate.

Sultan Phillet – Master auramancer of the Order of Sultai. The most powerful auramancer on the plane save Ethol Kalloit (although Ethol has not revealed that). Carefully guards the knowledge of the Bastions as he is very paranoid that in the wrong hands the Bastion’s power could ruin the world.

Illion Culban – Elven warrior who has studied both Bastions but does not trust their power. He rallies people not to rely on the power of the Bastions for their own protection.

Elek Longbeard – War-General of the Dwarven empire. Although, he is not a political leader of the Dwarves he is an iconic legend; and therefore has more pull than any other Dwarf alive save the emporer. His accomplishments are known everywhere and he is a powerful fighter and tactician. His ability to win battles has kept an overall peace to the Dwarven cities for decades.

Malvaro Thalken – Human mercenary leading the Vidians. Powerful warrior and geomancer mage. Does not like the reliance on the Bastions for power. He thinks they are weak and should just leave the Bastions be. Although he leads a group of mercenaries, he takes pride in their accomplishments and believes that overall he is bettering life on Lumehaven.

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Wed, 2010-10-20 22:39
theonlyjett
theonlyjett's picture

I could go for having the ability be a permanent thing, but I still stand in support of "enchanted or enchantment creatures" versus all creatures. He is an auramancer after all. The ability to make a creature an enchantment in addition to it's other types seems like he's capable of luminating them whereas I was under the impression that becoming luminated is more akin to reaching enlightenment in that you have to do it for yourself. If you are saying that that's an acceptable way to do what I said, then you might as well just enchant them. That's also why I suggested the ability to steal auras. The idea is that each time you use one of his abilities, you gain an enchantment that later helps out that creature even more when you use his ultimate.

That list of places and names is nice. Good job with that.

Wed, 2010-10-20 23:34
Guitarweeps
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???So, auramancers only can support beings that are enchantments or enchanted???

And you are right about making them enchantments. Don't know what I was thinking!

New cards alert!

Lumessence 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant U
Target enchantment becomes a 4/4 elemental creature with flying that is indestructible until end of turn. If it is an aura, unattached it.
The energies contained in enchantments can be harnessed in ways many don't understand. when done properly it can result in powerful manifestations. - Ethol Kalliot

Aether Shimmer 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant U
Replicate 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Exile target permanent you control. Return it to the battlefield at the beginning of the end step.

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Thu, 2010-10-21 00:22
Kiku
Creative Direction Award
Kiku's picture

Just a thought, but the ultimate of our auramancer walker' could be something awesome like... "Search your library for any number of aura (enchantment?) cards that could enchant permanents you control and put them onto the battlefield attached to permanents they could enchant. Then shuffle your library. "
I am definitely not sure about the wording there, but you get the idea. Inspired by Nissa Revane's ultimate obviously.

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Thu, 2010-10-21 14:36
Anuttymous
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Lumessence seems a bit good? I think remove indestructible and flying, otherwise it could be 4 damage for 2 mana quite easily.
Aether Shimmer I do like, but the replicate could easily be Blue mana symbol surely, seeing as it can only target your own permanents?

I'm quite happy with all the flavour for the characters/places/etc, however the rebels, I'm a little disliking. The name, that is, the rest is fine. It just sounds too much like Viridian Revel, and I don't want to confuse people, is all. Maybe just change Vidian to Divian? Or Devian? Just a simple change. Sorry about being picky.

Also, about the planeswalker's ultimate... I think it should encompass ALL creatures a player controls, not just enchantment and enchanted.
The planeswalker escaped from his own plane's destruction, but he only began enchantmental studies when he hit the very enchantment-based plane of Lumehaven (or is that not this planeswalker's storyline? I could be muddling them. If so, ignore the next few sentences.). Therefore, he was originally unbiased towards enchantments. Okay, so his small abilities might be more focused on enchantments, because he's spend a while with them, but his bigger focus is everyone he knows, in general.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
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Thu, 2010-10-21 17:10
theonlyjett
theonlyjett's picture

As a planeswalker, he's of course not limited in his abilities in reality. But I thought that his thing was that he was an auramancer and that his card was supposed to reflect that. If we're only going to go half way with that theme, we might as well not bother with the complexity of aura tokens or even saying he's an auramancer. If his abilities affect everything, then he's not really going to be special.

I feel that if planeswalkers don't become a bit more specialized, then every deck is going to have every planeswalker of that color in it. Making a planeswalker that really helps out your enchantments, but not everything, is the answer to that.

Just my feelings of course.

Thu, 2010-10-21 17:17
Guitarweeps
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Kiki - I like that one. I actually suggested something like it originally but it wasn't well received. Bring it back!

Lumessence is very good. I kind of was thinking more about blocking than attacking though so maybe it needs some fixes. What about a 3/3? Or maybe it could be rare?

Aether Shimmer - Well I was thinking in context with the Phenomenons especially the time one. Although, they have not been "voted in" yet. It is a powerful effect and I am not sure that Blue mana symbol is the correct cost. Maybe 3 is too much but we could try out 2.

You are pretty much right about the planeswalker although anything is adjustable still.

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Thu, 2010-10-21 20:25
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Jett does have a good point about the planeswalker. I did like the big ability you suggested before, Weeps, the same on Kiku suggested, and I was going to put it on the one I suggested too, however I thought it might be too powerful in light of recent talk. It might require a high cost, but I'd like that as the ultimate.
I would prefer the -1 or 2 or 3 or (etc)... to be the Aura token, so that it's simpler, and have the first ability as something, that (obviously) can be used without having to have a specific thing.

Also Aether Shimmer is two colours, so Blue mana symbol for replicate shouldn't be such a problem, as it's hard to afford, and you can't target the same thing twice, so it would be just as much of a problem with the phenomenon anyway. Also, change mana cost to 2C? Should work, no?

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Fri, 2010-10-22 07:18
Guitarweeps
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Well, we will see I suppose. I mean we are kind of treating it like Tezzeret but the difference is that Tezz's magical abilities had to do with artifacts or metal rather which limited the effects to that of artifacts. An auramancer creates enchantments not manipulates existing material so I don't think we should look at it the same way. However, as Jett said, this guy is our oppurtunity to really push and support the theme.

BTW, do you guys want to do cards like the phenomenon? If so, I would like to do a smaller scaled cycle as well. I just realized they trigger on cast which is probably too good since it overrides countering. Should be ETB triggers.

Expert Blacksmith 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature - Dwarf Artificer U
Tap symbol, sacrifice an artifact: Put two +1/+1 counters on target creature.
The workmanship of Dwarven armor surpasses anything else on Lumehaven. The smiths could have quite a trade if it fit anyone but Dwarves.
2/2

An update on Dwarven Weaponsmith

@Nutty - We can change the name. That actually is my least favorite name. Again, most of them I literally just came up with. Also, I meant to remove rebels. They are now nomadic mercenaries not rebels as they were when I first thought of them.

EDIT: Got an idea but I can't come up with everything myself on it. You remember Form of the Dragon? What if we made a powerful enchantment like that? I am thinking of Essence/Form of the Angel (Thought Akroma at first, but woudln't fit the setting). Not sure how powerful that could be made into. Demon could be used but I don't think many would want to take the form of a Demon...

Check out my updated set hub.

Fri, 2010-10-22 16:45
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

I wouldn't mind keeping the phenomenon, and even if we don't I'd like to see the smaller scale ones. Good shout about casting and entering the battlefield.
I'm happy with Expert Blacksmith, can't see any problems.
Actually, I think Demon would be the most popular among Spike, and maybe Johnny. You can give powerful boosts for high costs, such as life.
For an Angel version, we need to think:
What's the general cost of an Angel?
What are the general attributes of an Angel?
What's the general flavour of an Angel?
Same for a demon really.

Generally, Angels are 6 mana, Demon's 6 or 7.
Both have flying 90% of the time. Angels often have annoying abilities that prevent your opponent from doing things, e.g. Linvala, Angelic Arbiter. Demons often have an effect that can ruin either or both player's game, by killing off creatures (Carnifex Demon) or gambling your chances (Hellcarver Demon).
And the flavour? Well, that's to be decided by the set they're in, really, so we'll make our own here.
So, how about we make an Angel and Demon, then just take the better one?

[edit]Going through the previous cards, I've noticed there are various cards weren't put in due to unbalance, that lack balancing discussion. Would it be a good idea to put them up now, for people to balance? For example, I noticed this:
Bastion Solidatiry 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant Colorless mana symbol
Creatures you control that are enchantments or enchanted get +0/+5 until end of turn.
I thought it would be better to cost White mana symbol as it's very weak and specific, but then I can't use my own experience to balance cards, as that would be somewhat biased. So rather than put it in raw and fairly useless, or edit it myself unfairly, we can all have a go. Sound good?
Just to be clear, this is balancing possible cards, not choosing which for a slot, so please at the moment don't say it's an unnecessary card, unless you really feel it couldn't go in even with changes.[/edit]

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Sat, 2010-10-23 01:17
theonlyjett
theonlyjett's picture

I'd say put it up in the card clinic thread and be sure to specify how much of the set is enchantments or enchantment creatures.

Sat, 2010-10-23 11:24
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

We could do that, though surely it would be easier for us to do so here, as we already know everything about the set. Also, do the people there know we're making the cards slightly stronger than nonenchantment creatures? And only very slightly.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Sat, 2010-10-23 18:37
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Just stick a cost on it and fix it in playtesting. You'll know in short order if the cost is absolutely ludicrous or not.

Sat, 2010-10-23 18:51
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Well, that's a simple way to do it. Although, half of them might not even get to playtesting.
Is everyone happy with me just changing costs if they're over/under costed, and just going with it?

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Sun, 2010-10-24 08:53
theonlyjett
theonlyjett's picture

In all honesty, I don't see this set getting much actual play unless there's a few individuals that play with sets made here. That said, in the end, who cares what the cost is? The fun for us comes in the card ideas and set creation itself. So, cost it whatever you feel like and feel free to change it with or without an explanation.

Sun, 2010-10-24 09:04
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Well, that's a good way to put it.
Sorry for the lack of card submissions from me, I've been quite busy recently. I'll try to post some later on, if I find spare time.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Sun, 2010-10-24 20:47
Guitarweeps
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Compare to Safe Passage which prevents all damage to you and your creatures which is essentailly better than Bastion Solitude. With that said I think it could cost 1 or 2. I think 2 would be better but not really for balance reasons.

Also, I was thinking that it would be good to have some internal conflict aboard Lumehaven prior to the Ota. i ean nowhere is a paradise right? So, here come the...

Artisans of Mutare, a group of mages and scholars who have spent countless years studying the Bastion of Moons. They believe its power to be superior in the multiverse especially the Bastion of Suns which they believe to be weak. Because of their focus they are masters of illusion, necromancy, all forms of telepathy, and even clockworking. They have many dealings within Vindr and many stormchasers and students their align or aspire to join them. They oppose the Order of Sultai and have many indirect conficts with them, usually by using smaller weaker groups to be their arm and making it difficult to trace back to them. They are not afraid to use voilence or destroy innocents to meet their needs. The Order of Sultai wish to bring the Artisans of Mutare down, but because they cannot prove their involvement in most offenses they cannot officially do anything about it.

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Sun, 2010-10-24 21:17
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Ah, awesome. I think that's a good idea. Maybe they join up with Lumehaven's later on to fight the Ota. An uneasy, temporary friendship?

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Sun, 2010-10-24 21:25
Guitarweeps
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Yeah, something like that. Maybe the Order of Sultai has to curb their pride and turn to them for help and the power of the Bastion of Moons.

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Mon, 2010-10-25 00:06
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Quote:
Ascended Benefiction 2W
Instant
You may return a white aura with converted mana cost 3 you control from the battlefield to your hand instead of paying ~'s mana cost.
Target creature gets +3/+3 and gains lifelink until end of turn.

Based on this card previously suggested, how do these cards sound?

Disturbed Benefiction 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant Blue mana symbol
You may return a blue Aura you control with converted mana cost 3 or more to its owner's hand rather than pay CARDNAME's mana cost.
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 4 mana symbol.

Macabre Benefiction 4 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Instant Blue mana symbol
You may return a black Aura you control with converted mana cost 6 or more to its owner's hand rather than pay CARDNAME's mana cost.
Exile target player's graveyard. That player loses 1 life for each card exiled this way.

Panicked Benefiction Red mana symbol
Instant Blue mana symbol
You may return a red Aura you control with converted mana cost 1 or more to its owner's hand rather than pay CARDNAME's mana cost.
Target creature can't block this turn.
Draw a card.

Wild Benefiction 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Instant Blue mana symbol
You may return a green Aura you control with converted mana cost 3 or more to its owner's hand rather than pay CARDNAME's mana cost.
Search your library for a land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Mon, 2010-10-25 20:14
Guitarweeps
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I like them although they seem kind of off balance. The blue and black ones are really good while the red and green are meh. Some comments to each that might fix them.

Disturbed - I would go 3 mana symbol

Macabra - cost should be lowered and drop the loss of life. If we have this we would have to have enough six mana black auras to make it useful which is not really a place we want to be put in. This is my favorite one of them all.

Panicked - This is just not exciting. Which is not a problem except that within the cycle it stands out as a dud to me. I think a whole new effect would be in order.

Wild - If you cast a three mana aura you probably dont care to return it for a land. I think four mana and a 3/3 beast would be awesome.

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