Muraganda Unleashed - a community project

continued...
Wed, 2010-06-16 20:27
Guitarweeps
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Mmmm... don't like black being able to "revive" enchantments and artifacts. I know that my version does "the same thing" really but it seems a different flavor behind it. Maybe I am being to narrow though. Also, don't like that the first ability gives you no net benefit. Granted it makes your opponent sac but so do you. You are both going to toss your worst permanent. On the other hand, this is ridiculously broken when you cast it and then activate the "ultimate" on the first turn... 3 Rise from the Grave for 5 mana. How about this:

-4: Return target creature, land, or planeswalker card from any graveyard to the battlefield. Then you may remove a loyalty counter from Liliana. If you do, repeat this process.
(starting loyalty 4)

Now you can only get one card off the bat but as you build up more counters you can get even more out of it. Also, the ultimate maybe could balance the saccing but I still am not sure.

With that said though, how does the card either way fit the flavor of what you were looking for? It is your set.

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Thu, 2010-06-17 14:05
Picks-at-Flies
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If I can just chip in here - there's no point in fine tuning the card that much at this point. If the set goes properly, it would be playtested. I know from Rage, you can beat a card into submission all you like, but half of it is wasted as soon as you get to playtesting.

Thu, 2010-06-17 20:56
shark400

We will keep the Liliana I posted previously except with the revised ultimate and starting loyalty that Guitarweeps suggested. That should be the last change needed for now.
The planeswalkers are probably the trickiest cards to design, and I don't think we need to put them in until Muraganda Unleashed is in a later stage of development. Here is a list of what is needed right now:

    Vanilla creatures
    Cards that work well with vanilla creatures
    Cards that work well with basic lands
    Morph creatures
    Cards that let you sacrifice other creatures
    Tribal cards
    Legends
The more of these that are posted, the better Big smile

"It's the poison that in measures brings illuminating vision; it's the knowing with a wink that we expect in Southern women; it's the wolf that knows which root to dig to save itself; it's the octopus that crawls back to the sea" - R.E.M.

Thu, 2010-06-17 21:23
copapoc

for the vanilla creatures, wouldn't this fit ?

Primordial (this card is treated as if it doesn't has any abilities)

my 2 cents, wathcing for a while now, and i'm quite intrested to hop on.

an example would be

Gogaran Wurm 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature - Wurm [u]
Trample, Primoridial (this card is treated as if it doesn't has any abilities)
(5/3)

this card would have trample, but a card that cares for trample wouldn't be able to target or affect it in any way.

Thu, 2010-06-17 21:31
Rusty Keyes
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Then what happens to Gogaran Wurm if you smack it with a Sudden Spoiling? Unless primordial can prevent Gogaran Wurm from losing trample in instances like that, it's not a very useful keyword.

I think basing an entire set off of not having abilities is a little extreme. If Wizards put Muraganda Petroglyphs in a set it would probably be one that's token-oriented, since those almost never have abilities.

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Thu, 2010-06-17 21:37
elmdor
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Rusty Keyes is correct, we should make token generators. And/or auras and equipments that don't add abilities.

<cloak or something> Blue mana symbol
Enchantment -- Aura
Enchant creature with no abilities
Enchanted creature is unblockable and can't be the target of spells or abilities you don't control.

<any elemental-like in Muraganda theme> 3 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature -- ???
Whenever ~ attacks or block, put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield.
3/3

<fire-oriented shaman> 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature -- Shaman (Human?)
When ~ enters the battlefield, it deals 1 damage to target creature and loses this ability.
1/1

Pongify could be reprinted.

"All science is either physics or stamp collecting." [Ernest Ruthenford]
"In man we all pray!" [Tony Hadley]

Thu, 2010-06-17 21:35
copapoc

Obviously this would only bee for green, and maybe some red.
with sudden spoilings, this would happen: it doesn't check if it HAS abilities, it just removes them. nowhere they say that they have to have abilites before. as always, think the obvious: your wurm lost all abilities, including trample and primordial.

to continue on the list:
for the basic lands, would you mean like imperiosaurus ?
For the tribal cards, would it be able to do a Lizard theme ? (dinosaurs *cough*)

for the legends, fitting in the Black human tribe

Giriri, the chosen one 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Legendary creature - human sacrifice [R]
when ~ is sacrificed, all nonland-permanents you control become indistructible and have "during your upkeep pay 1 life or sacrifice this creature".
(0/3)

it has the creature type sacrifice, mainly as a flavor thing (its a occupation like any other one ^^)

Fri, 2010-06-18 01:26
Picks-at-Flies
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It's worth pointing out that you don't need many decent cards to make a theme like this*. In fact, there are very few ways to grant bonuses to vanilla creatures:
# +X/+Y
# indestructible (not an ability /I think/. Certainly doesn't meet the criteria in the Petroglyph errata.
# At the begin of phase X they do Y - not that many options here; untapping, additional attacks
# Conditional triggers - on death, on attacking
# Temporary abilities

Really, I can only see 4-5 of these effect 1-4 really being used before they start being repetitive, but put them at uncommon and most players will have an option of using one or more of them. You can maybe drop some light/strange ones at common/rare too.
Temporary ability granting (through a creature or enchantment activated ability) could be a lot more common.

The real meat of the vanilla style is having a disproportiate number of vanilla creatures (especially in green and red) at common, as well as significant numbers of token makers (again, you don't need that many token makers as long as some are at common/uncommon; players will gravitate towards them if they are useful).

I hope that was a useful rant!

*I realise in Alex Rugyami's thread we filled a good 15-20% with direct cmc matters cards, but it's a more complicated mechanic.

Fri, 2010-06-18 02:14
Shiv2503
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@Picks-at-Flies: you're looking over some of the more hacky stuff that you could do like "Creatures with no abilities can attack and Tap symbol even if they just came under your control."

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Fri, 2010-06-18 03:14
shark400

@Picks
I approve of this "Hacky Stuff". Creating loopholes around something like most creatures having no abilities is a pretty unique design challenge, and this is a very interesting way of dealing with it.
Another good idea would be to create a sort of trade-off, i.e. "Do I get the bonus for my creatures having no abilities, or do I give my creatures these abilities?"

"It's the poison that in measures brings illuminating vision; it's the knowing with a wink that we expect in Southern women; it's the wolf that knows which root to dig to save itself; it's the octopus that crawls back to the sea" - R.E.M.

Fri, 2010-06-18 14:54
elmdor
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"Creatures with no abilities may attack as though as they had haste."
They shouldn't need to Tap symbol, if they don't have abilities

"All science is either physics or stamp collecting." [Ernest Ruthenford]
"In man we all pray!" [Tony Hadley]

Fri, 2010-06-18 16:34
Guitarweeps
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Don't take this the wrong way, but I really do not like the idea of giving creatures an ability that says they have no abilities. IMO that is the lazy way to get the job done. It might be hard to make enough interesting creatures that have no abilities or interactions with that but I think we will be proud of the final product if put the full effort into actually doing it.

On another hand, I would be super excited about doing Lizards (Dinosaurs). I started a set awhile back on that which I had to quit working on when my computer crashed. It was really fun to design Dinosaurs though.

Might I suggest a mechanic based on what we saw from my recent entry in the Make a Card game?

Overbear <N> (This creature cannot be blocked by creatures with power N or less.

Basic premise is that they are so big they scare off smaller critters. Prevents chump blocking and makes you actually deal with the threat. It also feels right with the primitive feel of the set. It would only really appear on a couple giant Dinosaurs or other gargantuans so it wouldn't compete to much with "no abilities" theme.

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Sat, 2010-06-19 04:31
shark400

I would like to keep the stuff like "Creatures may deal combat damage as though they had trample" on a few cards. It provides a nice loophole while keeping the flavor intact. Overbear sounds like it would be a nice ability on the larger dinos, although trample would probably work just as well.
Token generators are also a really good idea. Ideally, there should be enough of them so that a viable token deck could be created from cards in this set.

"It's the poison that in measures brings illuminating vision; it's the knowing with a wink that we expect in Southern women; it's the wolf that knows which root to dig to save itself; it's the octopus that crawls back to the sea" - R.E.M.

Sat, 2010-06-19 05:34
Guitarweeps
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How about cards like this?

Hunting Pair 3 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature - Lizard (U)
Haste
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a 3/3 red Lizard creature token onto the battlefield. It can attack the turn it enters the battlefield.
3/3

It gives you a decent card and a decent ability-less token.

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Sat, 2010-06-19 10:03
Picks-at-Flies
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Except it's cheating. Now, had we been making this set 10 years ago, it wouldn't have been a problem. But Wizards have been gradually keywording abilities and turning that on its head for a gimic seems silly. Now admitedly, Wizards aren't above gimics themselves but I think they might pale at this. If cards work as if they have an ability, oh look, they should have that ability.

Consider the following variations:

Boistrous Wind Sprite - 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Elemental Faerie
Blue mana symbol, Tap symbol: target creature gains flying until end of turn.
2/1

Version A is your standard guy that could be in any set. But in this set, as well as general boosts, it gives you a dilemna if you already have a boost on your guys without abilities.

Boistrous Wind Sprite - 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Elemental Faerie
Blue mana symbol, Tap symbol: target creature without abilities gains flying until end of turn.
2/1

Version B is the same except more restrictive. It seems to play better with the theme, but is more restrictive. I would argue it's restrictive in an un-fun way since it has limited function (on your own cards at least).

Boistrous Wind Sprite - 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Elemental Faerie
Blue mana symbol, Tap symbol: target creature you don't control gains flying until end of turn.
2/1

Version C is really fun, making it clear it's there to mess with your opponent's creatures. But that assumes there are enough boosts to ability-less creatures to make it worthwhile. It does make it clear, though, that we need to be careful with targeted abilities that grant abilities in this set: most of them should be your own creatures only or it will destroy any ability-less theme we might have.

Sat, 2010-06-19 15:51
A Tactical Waffle
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A random card idea.

Hunting Party - 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant Blue mana symbol
Put 3 white 1/1 Hunter creature tokens on the battlefield.

and

[Grizzly Dinosaur] - 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature - Lizard Colorless mana symbol
2/2

How about we reprint Beast Hunt too.

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Sat, 2010-06-19 16:01
shark400

@Picks:
Version C is a really interesting idea. I think playing on the tension between having abilities and having no abilities would be a great design strategy for this set. The important thing to remember is that not every ability helps creatures.
I could easily see something like:

<defense-oriented commander> 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol

Creature - Human

White mana symbol,Tap symbol: Target creature you don't control gains defender until end of turn.

2/4

As for the "cheating" stuff, I agree that it is a bit too gimmicky. I think it would be a good idea to have stuff like that on a only few odd rares. I don't think that would be too silly

"It's the poison that in measures brings illuminating vision; it's the knowing with a wink that we expect in Southern women; it's the wolf that knows which root to dig to save itself; it's the octopus that crawls back to the sea" - R.E.M.

Sat, 2010-06-19 17:25
elmdor
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We can cheat a little: look at Thousand-Year Elixir. I think we could have cards that read "Creatures with no abilities may attack as though they had haste.", and/or "You may have creatures with no abilities you control assign their combat damage as though they weren't blocked.", and/or "Creatures with no abilities can't block and are unblockable.".
Other ideas may include regeneration, indestructibility, +1/+1 counters... as long as they aren't written on the creatures, those creatures don't have abilities.

Whenever a creature attacks, that creature loses all abilities until end of turn.
Whenever a creature blocks, that creature loses all abilities until end of turn.

@shark400 and the defense-oriented commander: I had the same idea Stick out your tongue maybe we need a second negative keyword.

<Hunting Pack #2> 3 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature -- Lizard
Haste
Whenever ~ attacks, put a 3/3 red Lizard creature token onto the battlefield, tapped and attacking.
3/3
(maybe it needs a higher cost)

"All science is either physics or stamp collecting." [Ernest Ruthenford]
"In man we all pray!" [Tony Hadley]

Tue, 2010-06-22 04:58
shark400

Hunting Pack #2 is a great idea for an aggressive token generator at rare. The tokens might need to be 2/2 for balancing purposes, but leaving the cost at 3 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol makes it more viable for more competitive decks.

As for new negative ability keywords, I can think of two obvious ideas:
Pacifism (This creature can't attack or block)
Reckless (This creature can't block)

"It's the poison that in measures brings illuminating vision; it's the knowing with a wink that we expect in Southern women; it's the wolf that knows which root to dig to save itself; it's the octopus that crawls back to the sea" - R.E.M.

Tue, 2010-06-22 15:59
Guitarweeps
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I like Hunting Pack #2. I had actually considered that at first but I was going for more of an example at the time rather than actually creating a card. I think this is the direction it would have gone.

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Sat, 2010-06-26 12:17
copapoc

Sat, 2010-06-26 16:37
A Tactical Waffle
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@ copapoc: I have a set file made, like I said I would. I was going to post it once we have more cards and are themes are for sure.

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-Yogi Berra

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Sat, 2010-06-26 20:03
shark400

Just to clarify things, here are the themes we have so far:

White- smaller tokens, defensive cards
Blue- Small fliers, Homarids, morph creatures
black- sacrifice costs, cards that trigger when sacrificed, reanimating creatures
green- large vanilla creatures, token generators, dinos
red - high-power vanilla creatures, dinos, cards that work well with basic lands

I think that's enough for one set.

"It's the poison that in measures brings illuminating vision; it's the knowing with a wink that we expect in Southern women; it's the wolf that knows which root to dig to save itself; it's the octopus that crawls back to the sea" - R.E.M.

Sat, 2010-06-26 20:15
Anuttymous
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What about artifacts? And land maybe?

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Sat, 2010-06-26 22:51
Guitarweeps
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You realize that over half of the "themes" are actually just what that color does? So of I remove what that color gets anyways we have the following:

White-
Blue- Homarids, morph creatures
black- sacrifice costs, cards that trigger when sacrificed
green- dinos
red - dinos, cards that work well with basic lands

I think we still have to go a step further.
Also, we need more color overlap. So far the only color overlap is dinos in green and red which doesn't really matter because I don't foresee a whole lot of tribal itegration considering that all dinos are different. Maybe white and green can support morph as well? THe basic land theme should be all colors; that would be much more effective across the board.

shark400 wrote:
Overbear sounds like it would be a nice ability on the larger dinos, although trample would probably work just as well.
I understand the point and similarity but it has some major differences. For instance, if I have a 6/6 creature with overbear 3 and you have two 3/3s it makes the difference of just chump blocking and killing the 6/6 or taking 6 to the dome. I think it is relevant and flavorful. Just my take. If it is used I would only foresee it on a handful of cards, not really an 'overbearing' theme (get it?).

Anotymus wrote:
What about artifacts? And land maybe?
I wouldn't foresee a "primal" themed set having much artifact presence and what it does have should be pretty basic with no prevalent themes unless flavorfully supporting one of the colored themes. A decent amount of lands would make sense but again, doesn't really need themes attached. I would like to see lands that support the dinos in some way.

EDIT: Some possible card ideas.

Spoiler:
Magnusaurus 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature - Lizard [R]
Trample, overbear 3
If only mana from from basic lands was spent to cast it, it cannot be countered and enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters on it.
5/5

Hunting Raptor 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature - Lizard [C]
Haste, first strike
3/1

Dinosaur Hunter White mana symbol
Creature - Human Hunter [C]
~ gets +2/+2 if an opponent controls a Lizard.
On Muraganda, dinosaur hunters were very scarce for obvious reasons.
1/1

Breeding Grounds
Land [R]
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
Tap symbol: Add Green mana symbol to your mana pool.
Tap symbol, tap two untapped Lizards you control: put a 3/3 green Lizard creature token onto the battlefield tapped.

Primal Fire 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Instant [C]
~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
If only mana from from basic lands was spent to cast ~, it deals 4 damage to that target instead.
With all the advancements of engineering and magic, fire needs no improvements

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Sun, 2010-06-27 13:18
Anuttymous
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You know, you could use a keyword for "If only mana from basic lands was spent to cast CARDNAME, [effect]."
For example "Primal -" or something?

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Sun, 2010-06-27 15:53
shark400

sounds like a very good idea

"It's the poison that in measures brings illuminating vision; it's the knowing with a wink that we expect in Southern women; it's the wolf that knows which root to dig to save itself; it's the octopus that crawls back to the sea" - R.E.M.

Sun, 2010-06-27 16:49
copapoc

agree. wath if we did it like this ? primal - eEffect (as long as only basic mana was used to cast CARDNAME, [effect]. this is treated as if it isn't an ability)

example:

Aggrosaur 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature - lizard
Primal - as long as basic mana was spen to play ~, it can attack and tap the turn it enters the battlefield.
4/3

it now has haste when played with basic land, but doesn't have abilitie. Big smile

Sun, 2010-06-27 17:04
kiligir
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Aggrosaur 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature - Lizard
Primal - If only mana from basic lands was used to cast ~, it gains haste until end of turn.
4/3

It wouldn't get all the bumps from the various other effects of the set right off, but this is more intuitive. We might want to abuse this mechanic, as it's a good one.

Primal - If only mana from basic lands was used to cast ~, <Action> until end of turn.

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Sun, 2010-06-27 17:50
copapoc

i'm only a bit fuzzy about the fact that primal doesn't reall has an effect, so its a pseudo-keyword right ? that counts as an ability, so everyting with primal automaticly misses the bumps, unless stated that effects following on primal doe not count as abilities, and that the basic land part actually could become somting difrent, resulting in

primal -- as long as you control a lizard, [effect]

in this case, primal would just be "this does not count as an ability", and the basic mana would become a "theme" rather than the keyword.

Sun, 2010-06-27 18:09
Anuttymous
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I'm not too keen on the "this doesn't count as an effect" type thing, 'coz it causes many bumps and grazes when it comes to rules. Maybe you could have it so that it's like the old walls, that had (Walls can't attack.) That wasn't an ability, it was the reminder text of walls.
Maybe Dinos could have (If only mana produced by basic lands was spent to cast a Dinosaur, it gains [effect dependent upon it's other subtypes].) Hmm?

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Sun, 2010-06-27 20:19
Guitarweeps
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I know I have already voiced my opinion about abilties that are treated as they aren't abilities but I want to make another point. Magic is about making choices and balancing which choice is better. Both during play and during deckbuilding. If we have cards give benefits to creatures with no abilities and then make a bunch of creatures with no abilities or creatures with abilities that are treated as if they have no abilities then we have taken the choice out of it. Then you get into the issue that I found with Zendikar. If you want to play Vampires in Zendikar Block, the deck builds itself. I have tried to find a different way to play it but the deck is what it is and that is pretty much all you have. To me that is a failure. You should have to make choices. Do I want a gigantic vanilla creature for my 4 drop or an awesome trampler? By making quality vanilla options and quality options with abilties we offer the player the oppurtunity to make the choices and compromises in deckbuilding.

With that said we need to do the same thing with Primal (love that by the way). We need quality nonbasic lands so that players want to play them and have to make the choice between using that slot for an awesome nonbasic or a basic to support their primal cards. After all, if we have no nonbasics then there is no point having primal because then ALL spells are cast with basics only anyways.

Anyways, just my thoughts.

Now, anyone support making a cycle around Muraganda Petroglyphs? Some ideas.

Muraganda Firebrand 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Enchantment
Creatures with no abilities can attack as though they had haste.
Whenever a creature with no abilities enters the battlefield under your control, it gets +2/+2 until end of turn.

Muraganda Lightstone 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Enchantment
Whenever a creature with no abilities enters the battlefield, you gain 2 life.

Muraganda Cursemark 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Enchantment
Whenever a creature with no abilities attacks, you may have target creature get -1/-1 until end of turn.

Muraganda Inspiration 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Enchantment
Creatures with no abilities cannot be the target of spells or effects.

I would also suggest making them uncommon to support the theme better.

Another idea.

Swarm of Decay 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Sorcery
Each player puts a 1/1 black Insect creature token onto the battlefield for each creature card in his or her graveyard.

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Sun, 2010-06-27 20:32
elmdor
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Quote:
I know I have already voiced my opinion about abilties that are treated as they aren't abilities but I want to make another point. Magic is about making choices and balancing which choice is better. Both during play and during deckbuilding. If we have cards give benefits to creatures with no abilities and then make a bunch of creatures with no abilities or creatures with abilities that are treated as if they have no abilities then we have taken the choice out of it.

I agree with Guitarweeps.
I like the cycle, but the white one seems weak. Should we add "Whenever a creature with no abilities attacks, you may untap that creature"? (AKA ability-less vigilance)
And about Muraganda Inspiration: "spells or abilities your opponents control"? Vanilla creatures should be supported by other spells.

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Sun, 2010-06-27 21:48
Guitarweeps
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I wasn't sure about the white one. Note that it triggers when opponent's creatures enter too. I did that because it is blue. "spells or abilities your opponents control" is usually green. The gatherer shows two blue cards both of which are blue and green. I guess it would be ok though.

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Mon, 2010-06-28 03:56
shark400

Primal should count as an ability. It definitely counts as an ability on Imperiosaur and it should count as an ability on all the other basic land - friendly dinos we design for this set.
@Guitarweeps:
I think the most important thing in designing a set is the element of fun. The colors should have all the tools they need to function, of course, but beyond that the sky's the limit. One major problem that I've seen in quite a few magic sets, that is also starting to pop up in this set, is the issue of homogenization. Just because some cards work well with Muraganda Petroglyphs, doesn't mean that every card has to work well with it. Otherwise, everyone using cards from this set would build a Petroglyphs deck and ignore all the other cool cards that people might put in here. Ideally, the cards that work well with Muraganda Petroglyphs should very clearly say "I work well with Muraganda Petroglyphs and I am awesome", cards like Imperiosaur should clearly say "I work well with Forest and I am awesome", Planeswalkers should...well, you get the idea A happy smile

"It's the poison that in measures brings illuminating vision; it's the knowing with a wink that we expect in Southern women; it's the wolf that knows which root to dig to save itself; it's the octopus that crawls back to the sea" - R.E.M.

Mon, 2010-06-28 08:57
copapoc

for the white one, wouldn't this be somthing ?

Murganda lightstone 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Enchantment
Whenever a creature with no abilities deals damage, its controller may gain that much life.

@guitarweeps: okay i get your point now. should have seen this earlier, since i actually don't like the vampire deck because of the way it's designed

Mon, 2010-06-28 13:53
Guitarweeps
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@copapoc - I like it. lol. I was getting on here to suggest that myself (I didn't like my first idea). I assume all of them will get a revamp once we start actually making cards.

How about a reprint of Pack Hunt as it fits in with our setting?

I was thinking that a reprint or spinoff of Arbor Elf would be good primal-supporting green acceleration.

Groundskeeper Green mana symbol
Creature - Elf Druid [C]
Tap symbol: Untap target basic land.
The elves of Muraganda knew the best ways to make any land more productive.
0/2

I seem to be submitting way more cards than others. Maybe I should slow down. A happy smile I just really like the themes. My first set was a prehistoric based set but being my first it didn't fare so good and this one has everything I liked about that but with some real meaning and setting behind it.

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Mon, 2010-06-28 17:09
Picks-at-Flies
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Guitarweeps - I love your cards. Your glyphs cycle should probably be reworded to only affect your own creatures, which may mean we might have to include an altered petroglyphs. And remember, the white one says, "Whenever you create a creature token, gain 2 life". That IS quite strong in format where we are planning to make lots of token generators.

Would anyone object to:
Young Allosaurus - Green mana symbol
Creature - Dinosaur
They start as mean as they end up.
2/2
(common)

Astribe Reconnoiterer - 1 mana symbol
Creature - Human Scout
The prestige of this position is equalled only by its lack of survival rate.
1/2
(common)

Astribe Palm Runner - Green mana symbol
Creature - Human Scout
"Run my son, for your speed is your only weapon."
2/1
(common)

Speartrap Runners - 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature - Human Scout
First Strike
Creatures blocked by Speartrap Runners gain trample until end of turn.
2/2

Runner Veteran - 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature - Human Scout
Whenever a Scout you control attacks, you may tap target creature.
1/4
(uncommon)

Runner's Boots - 1 mana symbol
Artifact - Equipment
Scout creatures equipped with ~ gain +3/+0
Whenever equipped creature attacks, you may search your library for a Scout card, reveal it an put it in your hand. Shuffle your library.
Equip 2 mana symbol
(uncommon)

Mon, 2010-06-28 18:57
copapoc

since i read the rules for deathtouch again, i wanted to post this:

deathbolt 2 mana symbolRed mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Sorcery (U)
deathtouch
~ deals 3 damage divided as you choose among up to 2 target creatures or players.

Mon, 2010-06-28 19:42
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

@Picks - Maybe we should just make an uncommon cycle in addition to the glyphs instead of including it.

- The first three are all really strong 1-drops. I am not sure if you are suggesting all of them but I would not suggest having that many strong 1-drops, especially with the potential that they will be better as a vanilla creature. I am not sure I would support a 2/2 1-drop with no drawback in this setting. Astribe Reconnoiterer is intriguing but it gives every color access to a 1/2 1-drop. What if it had "Primal - Spend only mana produced by basic lands to cast this."? I know it wouldn't be super relevant but it would work. Anyways, I would vote for only 2 of the strong 1-drops at common.

- I like the concept of Speartrap Runners but don't necessarily get it. What is a speratrap and why does it give opponent's trample?

- Runner's Boots - This is extremely strong with just the triggered ability. Each Scout can at least replace itself for very little mana investment. And you can get the best Scout for the current gamestate. Honestly though, this card is almost overpowered with only the power boost. The boost is way ahead of the usual mana curve on equipment. Bottom line is, in order for this card to work, it has to have a very small boost and cost way more to equip and cost. Not sure exact numbers at the moment. Also, why would boots give you +3/+0 anyways?

Overall, I like the idea of having a minor Scouts theme as this setting is great for it.

@Shark400 - Can you start updating all the themes in the main post so that we can just look there instead of hunting through the thread? You are the only one who can modify the first post.

@Copapoc - Love Deathbolt! Great way to mix creature removal and direct damage. I was thinking about putting lifelink on nincreatures lately and this works great. It is a little strong though. 4 mana to kill two creatures is pretty good. Also, what do you think of a slight mod?

Deathbolt
Sorcery (R)
~ deals 3 damage divided as you choose among up to 2 target creatures or players.
Primal - Deathbolt has douthtouch if only mana from basic lands was spent to cast this.

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Mon, 2010-06-28 19:47
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

For the glyphs, I don't think a cycle would be best. I think the best idea would be to do like Rise of the Eldrazi did for levelers, i.e. Time of Heroes for the boost and Training Grounds for the ease of access. There wasn't much else in regards to helping levelers. So, maybe we should try to keep Primal to 2 or 3 colours, and we can give each of those colours a way to make it better, green we already have Muraganda Petroglyphs for abilitiless, so green should contain little Primal and try to be slightly leaning towards no abilities. Maybe there should be red and some green mainly for primal and then green and white for abilitiless, and then black and blue having other primitive-style abilities?

This is just my idea, screwed up into one big ball of words, so if you didn't understand, just ask and I'll repeat more simply. I just didn't like the idea of a glyph cycle, that's all.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
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Mon, 2010-06-28 20:52
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Well, it might be a little much but we might be able to make it work. We can just see how it goes as we come up with ideas. There is a big difference between levelers and abilityless. A leveler creature doesn't really need support because it is cool and usefull by itself. A creature with no abilities NEEDS support in order for it to work as a theme. Otherwise, you just have a creature with no abilities, no wow factor there. I do think that we should devise what colors will interact with abilityless and in what fashion.
To bring back the color wheel, here are some random suggestions for the breakdown.

White- Major - Vanilla tokens, abilityless creatures support.
Minor - Morph, nonlizard prehistoric (Mammoths, mastodon, pteradactyl).

Blue- Major - Homarids, morph creatures.
Minor - Punish abilityless creatures, prehistoric sea creatures.

Black- Major - Sacrifice costs, cards that trigger when sacrificed.
Minor - Primal, punish abilityless creatures, Zombie-Dinos???

Green- Major - Dinos, primal, abilityless creature support.
Minor - Vanilla fatties, scouts

Red - Major - Dinos, primal, abilityless creature support.
Minor - Vanilla creatures.

So let me know what you think or tear it up, whatever. So far, we are returning one theme: morph. And we have two new themes: primal and abilityless creatures. I am leaving out the dinos since that is just a new tribe not really a mechanical theme (unless we use overbear). The black sac theme hasn't been hashed out yet. With that said, I think we might want to consider one more overall theme/mechanic for the set. Not super important right now, we can always check it out again a little further into development.

Muraganda storyline wrote:
But out of the ruins of the old Multiverse, a new Multiverse is beginning to form, dotted with planes like Muraganda, which is pulsing with new, primal mana and overflowing with primitive life. Many planeswalkers from the old Multiverse are looking to destroy Muraganda and use its immeasurable energy to keep their home planes alive for a few hundred more years.
Maybe we should look for a theme/mechanic that showcases this immeasurable energy?

Check out my updated set hub.

Tue, 2010-06-29 02:28
shark400

I really like the ideas for cards that have been posted recently. The set is starting to come together and it looks great so far.
@Guitarweeps:
This "immeasurable energy" is the source of all mana for the new Multiverse, which is located at the center of Muraganda. Mechanically this would appear in the form of cards like Heartbeat of Spring, but if you think of anything a little crazier that fits in with the theme, there might be a spot for it.
Thanks for your list on the themes. I used a modified version of it in the first post. I hope you don't mind A happy smile

Also, it's been a while since I've submitted anything, so here goes:

Saber - toothed Cat White mana symbolWhite mana symbol
creature - cat (U)
3/2

Elder Saurian 5 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature - Lizard
If only mana generated from basic lands was used to cast ~, it gets +1/+1 and has protection from Homarids
6/6

"It's the poison that in measures brings illuminating vision; it's the knowing with a wink that we expect in Southern women; it's the wolf that knows which root to dig to save itself; it's the octopus that crawls back to the sea" - R.E.M.

Tue, 2010-06-29 05:34
copapoc

somthing a little grazier:

Life of Muraganda 3 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Enchantment
during each players upkeep, that player pust a copy of each non-legendary creature he or she controls onto the battlefield.

Tue, 2010-06-29 07:59
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

How about the overflowing mana manifests intself in a new planeswalker, who fights off the arriving planeswalkers.
It makes sense - a lowly lifeform wanders into a special grove place, and Muraganda imbues it's natural powers into that lifeform, thus creating a planeswalker. That's 1 new planeswalker, and then we can have 2 invading walkers. In later sets, the new planeswalker returns, but with allied walkers instead.
Worth a try?

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Tue, 2010-06-29 18:44
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

How about this?

Heartbeat of Muraganda
Land Planeswalker (M)
+1: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.
-2: Search your library for a land card and put it in your hand.
-X: Target land becomes an X/X colorless Elemental creature with shroud in addition to its other types.
2

This powerful mana has manifested itself in living lands which are then sparked into planeswalkers. You may notice that there is no Planeswalker subtype. That is because this manifestation is not limited to one being, it can spark into multiple beings so there can be multiple of them on the battlefield on every side.

@Copapoc - I like it but I think it should cost a little more maybe?

@Shark400 - It is spelled Sabretooth, but nice card.
Elder Saurian - I would be careful about making players remember turns after whether primal applies.

Your tweaks look appropraite. Before continuing, what was the take on overbear? Are we going to feature it on some Dinos? Also, do we want any of the usual creature types off limits? Many fantasy stories vear towards the world starting with only humans, elves, and orcs (I think). All other races then branching off by evolution or magical modification.

Check out my updated set hub.

Tue, 2010-06-29 19:01
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Heartbeat of Muraganda - I really like the idea of this, but I think it should be +1 1 mana symbol mana and -1 one mana of any color, and then -X for an X/X land, which could include itself. Although, I'd have no problems with it staying as it is, to be honest.

I think humans are only black, for the sacrificial cults, and I don't even know if elves, orcs, goblins, etc are even appearing!

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Tue, 2010-06-29 19:17
elmdor
elmdor's picture

OMG
Heartbeat of Muraganda can be the most broken card in existence because you forgot a very important sentence in the ultimate: X can't be zero!
I prefer the ultimate like this:
-X: Target land becomes a 0/0 colorless Elemental creature with shroud in addition to its other types. Put X +1/+1 counters on it. X can't be 0.
It greatly helps memory.

"All science is either physics or stamp collecting." [Ernest Ruthenford]
"In man we all pray!" [Tony Hadley]

Tue, 2010-06-29 19:23
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

It could get bigger and bigger. You'd end up with a land worse than Raging Ravine!

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Tue, 2010-06-29 19:49
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Yeah, it was intended to be used only on lands you control anyways. I think that saying "target land you control" instead fixes it and maintains my original intent of the ability. I did just come up with the card so I am not married to the abilities. I do like the idea of -1 mana of any color, BUT it needs to feel like a planeswalking land if we do it. I think that two mana abilities would make it feel just like a glorified land. Unless maybe it was a four ability planeswalker. Also, I don't think counters are neccessary. It will most likely be used only on a couple of lands. Players will probably use dice to track the P/T naturally like they do with Tarmogoyf and Figure of Destiny. I don't think we need to force it on them.

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