Positions

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Sat, 2010-06-05 17:37
Anuttymous
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I dunno if this is a good idea, hence why I'm asking, but I thought of a new card type. Positions. Basically, they act as another battlefield.
When you play a Position, you may move any number of creatures you control into it, but once it's down, you must move them with spells or abilities. Whilst it's down, any spells that designate all creatures (e.g. "Destroy all creatures") must also designate either a Position, thus destroying all creatures in that Position, or the original battlefield, thus destroying any creature that aren't in Positions. When a Position leaves the battlefield, all creatures in it return to the original battlefield.
That is a brief overview, please ask what you will.

Way to overcome some difficulties - Position types!
The types are currently - Airborne; Battlegrounds; Cityscape; Natural; and Waterway.
Any "all" effect affect all creatures in a chosen Position type, i.e. Day of Judgment could destroy all creatures in Battlegrounds, but would leave all other creatures alone. The "original battlefield" idea will be kept, as far as I can see, though needs a bit of work on what to refer to it as.

Erm... Ideas for Positions will be very welcome.

Rules insert:

Spoiler:

Full (probably gonna be changed a little) list of Positions in no particular order ('coz I couldn't be bothered to order them):

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Please, comment on any and all.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Sat, 2010-06-05 19:14
Rusty Keyes
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There's a variant called Frontier Magic, which is kind of like this. Maybe you might want to do a regular magic set, but intended to be played with that (or something slightly different, like having destroyed lands take creatures with them)?

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Sat, 2010-06-05 19:31
Anuttymous
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I guess it's a bit like that, but the Positions are only used with creatures - enchantments, lands, artifacts, planeswalkers and all else stay on the original battlefield.
It might be better to just make a variant where the Land are the Positions. Dunno yet. We'll see how it goes.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Sat, 2010-06-05 19:54
Bass

Pretty cool idea, but I think there's a couple of problems.

It's a big hassle to move creatures around the battlefield into compartmentalized 'positions', especially if you have equipment and auras and creature tokens. When you attack and block, you move creatures around the table, but it doesn't matter where; pointing works just as well. But with this, their actual positioning on the table matters. This also becomes problematic with attacking and blocking from different positions, and even more of a hassle when using morph.

I'd suggest that you use the plane cards template for positions; or at least, a length-wise frame instead of the regular one, so that it's easier to move them with one another.

While it does open up new design space and interesting elements, I don't know if adds enough to make all the hassle worthwhile. The point of positions is that you have more than one battlefield, which I think is really cool. But, you could probably create various battlefields with evasion; flying, shadow, landwalk - they all create restrictions on whom can block whom, which is kinda the point of moving between battlefields.

I often find that trying to reduce a mechanic like that will either show why the new mechanic is worth keeping around, or it'll give a new way of looking at something earlier. Might help. A happy smile

Sat, 2010-06-05 20:11
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

I'm not sure the idea is worth the difficulty, but I will give you that it is one of the more interesting custom card type ideas I've heard.

I can see where Bass is coming from, but I don't think the use of evasions is reason enough to vacate this idea. I mean, afterall, there are also arguments that all card types are variations of enchantments and that a great many keywords are variations of kicker. That doesn't make artifacts, planeswalkers, entwine, or replicate bad ideas. A happy smile

I do also think Bass makes an excellent point about looking at mechanics from new angles, though.

Sun, 2010-06-06 00:05
A Tactical Waffle
A Tactical Waffle's picture

I like it. It may be a small hassle, but I don't think I would mind to much.

You could make positions like:

The Skies - Unknown Cost
Position
Only creatures with flying may enter The Skies.
Creatures in the skies get +2/+0 and have vigilance.
2 mana symbol: Move target creature into The Skies.

I think it would be best if all Positions where Legendary, like planeswalkers.

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Sun, 2010-06-06 01:04
Disposable Hero
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Hmm.. I like it, as it weaves additional layers of complexity into the game, which I always enjoy.

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Sun, 2010-06-06 10:20
Anuttymous
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Quote:
I think it would be best if all Positions where Legendary, like planeswalkers.

Yes, I considered that. It will have a similar uniqueness rule, with one difference. Both players can have one out. Therefore if my opponent and I both control "The Skies" for instance, then I could Windstorm in The Skies to kill all of his and some of mine, leaving the stronger ones alive, but not affecting any in other Positions, or on the original battlefield. Of course, that means I have to either not make many Positions, so that the chances of both players having the same ones are higher, or make it so that opponents can move into your Positions, but can't activate the abilities of that Position.

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Sun, 2010-06-06 10:24
Liosan
Liosan's picture

Quote:
Of course, that means I have to either not make many Positions, so that the chances of both players having the same ones are higher, or make it so that opponents can move into your Positions, but can't activate the abilities of that Position.

Position types, maybe? A storm could affect anything in a "flying" position, etc.

Liosan

Sun, 2010-06-06 15:31
Anuttymous
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Quote:
Position types, maybe? A storm could affect anything in a "flying" position, etc.

Ah, fantastic. Absolute genius. Why didn't I think of that!
Thank you!!

Added some more to top now.
Thanks Liosan!

Could use ideas too, if anyone has anything they think would be good.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Mon, 2010-06-07 01:35
Art_Freak
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Love the idea! How about something like this?

The Cabal Treasury Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Position
Creatures cannot be cast into ~.
Whenever you successfully cast of gain control of an artifact or enchantment, untap creatures in ~.
Whenever a creature enters a graveyard, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature in ~.
2 mana symbolBlack mana symbol, Discard a card: Move target black creature you control into ~.

For those not familiar: The cabal profit off of gambling, rare artifacts, and dark magic. Whenever something dies they absorb its death energy and become more powerful for it.

Mon, 2010-06-07 04:34
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Shield and Shell 3WW
Position
Green creatures and black creatures can't be part of ~.
Whenever a creature in ~ blocks, all creatures in it gain banding until end of turn.
XXW: All creatures in ~ receive +0/+X until end of turn.

Spoiler:
In most of my sets (Martin, Mariel, and Triss included), one of the constants I have is a rather persistent and heated racial war between the Bori (R/W) and Yoshi (B/G), primarily over the latter raising the former as cattle or otherwise predating on the species. As this card represents a Bori "shield wall" position (that, due to Bori carapaces, is near unassailable), the position is heavily defended from all sides. Because of how xenophobic the Bori are, anything remotely aligned with the Yoshi - that is, black and green creatures - are attacked on-sight, hence the color restrictions.

Mon, 2010-06-07 13:29
Art_Freak
Art_Freak's picture

Venser's Worshop 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Position
Nonartifact creatures cannot be cast or enter into ~.
Noncreature artifacts may be cast into ~.
The cost of artifacts cast into ~ is reduced by 1 mana symbol
Nonartifact creatures in ~ become X/X artifact creatures where X equals their converted mana cost.

Mon, 2010-06-07 14:34
Icarael
Icarael's picture

I actually think this is one of the better ideas in the Card Showcase right now. There's a lot of mechanical goodness and flavor in this suggestion, which one can expand on. In fact, I think that if we go and work all the kinks out of the design, Positions might make a cool theme for a Community Set.

Anyway, here are my takes on the Position thing.

A Position inspired by Sun Tzu's The Art of War:

Spoiler:
Hemmed-In Ground 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Position- Battlegrounds
Creatures in Hemmed-In Ground have defender and "Whenever this creature blocks, it gets +3/+3 until end of turn".
Creatures in Hemmed-In Ground cannot be moved into other positions.
When Hemmed-In Ground is removed from the battlefield, sacrifice all creatures in it.
1 mana symbol: Move target creature you control into Hemmed-In Ground.
"Our position cannot and must not be compromised: else, none of us will get out alive."

And another (sort of):

Spoiler:
Elevated Terrain 2 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Position- Battlegrounds
Creatures in Elevated Terrain can't be blocked except by creatures with flying.
1 mana symbol: Move target creature you control into Elevated Terrain. Play this ability no more than once each turn.
"Perfect. They'll never see us coming from way up here."

A way to move creatures from one position to another fast:

Spoiler:
Mobilization X mana symbol1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Move X target creatures into target position.
"Alright, time to move out! Go to it, men!"

An artifact position:

Spoiler:
Sky Fortress 6 mana symbol
Artifact Position- Airborne
Creatures without flying cannot be cast into Sky Fortress.
Creatures in Sky Fortress get +0/+3 and vigilance.
Tap a creature you control with flying: Move target creature without flying into Sky Fortress.
"Behold the crown jewel of the Darmadian Air Force: the flying fortress Palladia Mors!"
-- General Jarran Barthandelus

A way to take entrenched creatures out:

Spoiler:
Siege Bombardier 7 mana symbol
Artifact Creature- Construct
Tap a creature you control: Put a shell counter on Siege Bombardier.
Tap symbol, Remove any number of shell counters on Siege Bombardier: Siege Bombardier deals 1 damage to each creature in target position for each shell counter removed to do so.
"Let the earth quake in fear as we show them the fury of the Darmadian Empire!"
-- General Jarran Barthandelus

3/4

And finally, a way to destroy positions.

Spoiler:
Saturation Bombing 4 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Sorcery
Destroy target position. Saturation Bombing deals 1 damage to each creature in that position.
"Pilot to bombardier, initiating attack run."

So, what do you think?

"Take the bridge, men! Victory! Victory is ou - Retreat! RETREAT!"
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Mon, 2010-06-07 14:34
Guitarweeps
Head Administrator
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Interesting idea. It has a lot of potential. It would make board sweepers much less efective for sure which is actually a downside I think. I would suggest that the base abilities of the positions to move creatures to a position should be only used as a sorcery.

Command should be cantrip.

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Mon, 2010-06-07 15:19
Anuttymous
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I love Mobilisation and Siege Bombardier, though it'll have to be sacrifice to add a counter, not tap, otherwise it'll be rather overpowered.
The Position ideas are pretty good too, though I'm still working on the concept.

Currently, I have a rare, uncommon and common for each Position type (Airborne, Battlegrounds, Cityscape, Natural and Waterway), and there'll be one or two mythics. Right now I need a rare Black mana symbolRed mana symbol Airborne Position, dubbed Mountaintops; a rare/mythic 5 colour Cityscape Position, named Walker Academy (new name ideas are welcome on this one, very welcome); a common Green mana symbol Natural Position - Forest Dwellings (?); and a common Green mana symbolWhite mana symbol Waterway Position (tough one to think of a name, help!).

Some new examples, feel free to comment/suggest/scream:

A common

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Uncommon

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Rare

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Mana costs aren't finished yet, still deciding those, so don't think Ambush is so cheap just yet.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Mon, 2010-06-07 16:03
Liosan
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This kind of reminds me of formations (or was it tactics? can't remember the name) in the Civilisation boardgame. In that game, if you had a tactic card (dunno, "Phalanx"), then each set of units matching a certain pattern (infantry-infantry-infantry-cavalry) gained you certain bonuses (increase in military power). So, how could this translate to MTG? Maybe integrating them with positions ("During your upkeep, you gain 1 life for each 3 Elves in Sherwood Forest"; or "Tap any amount of creatures in ~: ~ deals 1 damage for every Wizard and Goblin tapped this way to target creature"), or maybe as a separate card type...

Just idly speculating A happy smile

Liosan

Mon, 2010-06-07 19:57
Anuttymous
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Sound like a nice idea, but kinda complicated.
Would be nice to see someone else do, though...

Also, I've added all the positions to the top now. Enjoy!

Anuttymous the Gathering
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