New Mechanic - Spellstitch: Is this any good?

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Sat, 2009-11-07 06:36
InspiredOgre

New Mechanic - Spellstitch: Is this any good?

Okay, so, I came up with a new U/R Mechanic for my set (used to be suspend.) I am wondering if this is any good.

Its called spellstitch. The concept is that when you cast a spell, a creature/artifact/enchantment may take on the remaining spell energies before its all gone (in graveyard.) They then recast it later.

Spellstitch-# (Whenever an instant or sorcery you cast with converted mana cost less than or equal to # is put into the graveyard after resolving, you may exile it spellstitching this creature/artifact/enchantment.)

Here are some examples...

Spell Threads X mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Artifact (U)
Spell Threads comes into play with X charge counters.
Spellstitch-4 (Whenever an instant or sorcery you cast with converted mana cost less than or equal to 4 is put into the graveyard after resolving, you may exile it spellstitching this artifact.)
You may remove a charge counter from Spell Threads to cast the instant or sorcery spellstiched to Spell Threads without paying its mana cost, exile the spell after it resolves.

Spellscribed Savage 1 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Minotaur Berserker (C)
First Strike
Spellstitch-2 (Whenever an instant or sorcery you cast with converted mana cost less than or equal to 2 is put into the graveyard after resolving, you may exile it spellstitching this creature.)
When Spellscribed Savage deals combat damage to an opponent, you may play the instant or sorcery spellstitched to Spellscribed Savage without paying its mana cost, exile the spell after it resolves.
2/1

~~~

I modeled this after haunt, as it seems the closest ability out there.

I guess the spell spellstiched to the permanent could be used in other ways... "This creature has protection from the colors of the spellstitched card."

Spellstitch is a word I came up with on the fly, I am totally not attached to it.

When a spell is played, and there are multiple permanents with spellstitch in play, how would this resolve? If there is a problem (intuitively, it would be stitched to only one permanent of your choice...) how would I word it to deal with that problem?

Any advice I can get on this would be appreciated, thanks!

Sat, 2009-11-07 07:58
Guitarweeps

The wording can be cleaned

The wording can be cleaned up a lot. Some of the little catches you have in there are not really neccessary for the ability. The ability is similar to Isochron Scepter and should be worded as such. That removes the clunky exiling and after it resolves wording. Also, I wouldn't worry about the "if it was put in the graveyard" part of it. It could look like this:

Spell Threads X mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Artifact (U)
Spell Threads comes into play with X charge counters.
Spellstitch-4 (Whenever an instant or sorcery you cast with converted mana cost 4 or less resolves, you may exile it spellstitching this artifact.)
Remove a charge counter from Spell Threads: You may copy the exiled card. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

Also, there should definetily be a rule that you cannot have more than one spellstich on one card.

With multiple in play, they would all trigger when the spell resolves, you would stack them, and then the after you have spellstiched one the remaining triggers would do nothing. No problem there.

Currently working on:
Undead Mini-Plane
Triannon Shard Refraction
Drel Alar Block

Sat, 2009-11-07 08:26
InspiredOgre

The issue Im having with

The issue Im having with your implementation (though cleaning it up as you suggested helps.) is that I am not looking for a xerox machine here. Im looking for a one time replay of the spell.

I want the spell to resolve, then go somewhere, then come back when X condition is met with new targets (a copy if you must) then I want the spell to go away.

I want there to be a limit of one spellstitched spell on a single permenent.

Lastly, I want the permenant to be able to pick up a new spell when one of the proper CMC is played. (yes, assumeing there is no spellstitch already attached.)

Your fix makes my spellstitched mechanic into a keyword for the scepter you pointed out, which isint quite what I wanted.

Dont get me wrong, your implementation is fantastic, it works, its clean, its sexy. My mechanic is spicifically not intended to be that good.

So, using your cleaned up language, but trying to get what I wanted, I came up with...

~~~

Spell Threads X mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Artifact (U)
Spell Threads comes into play with X charge counters.
Spellstitch-4 (Whenever an instant or sorcery you cast with converted mana cost 4 or less resolves, you may exile it spellstitching this artifact.)
Remove a charge counter from Spell Threads: You may copy the spellstitched card and then cast it without paying its mana cost. If you do, put it into your graveyard as it resolves.

~~~

The scepter you suggested I emulate uses the wording "Copy imprinted card" why cant I use "copy the spellstitched card" Haunt also uses "haunted"... Your suggestion was "copy the exiled card" which is less flavorful (yes, sacrilege, rules txt can have flavor) and also a little confusing... What was your reasoning?

Second, by moving the exiled card from the exile zone to the graveyard definitely resolves my concern of not wanting a xerox mechanic... But does it work? is it intuitive enough? Is it clunky? Is giving someone access to the spell in the GY a power level issue?

Lastly, imprint always involved a discarded card... right? Im not reinventing the wheel here am I? (yea, I know, its kinda a reverse haunt, but still...)

Does my wording make it possible to immediately re-stitch the same spell?

Sat, 2009-11-07 11:24
copapoc
copapoc's picture

i seer one broken fact here

i seer one broken fact here ...
spell thread whit a high X
seering song X 4
dragonstorm (wich will be 5)
spelsticht 4 of them
repeat that imediatly after
dragonstorm of 5, 6, 7

totally 22 dragonstorms !! (eww xd)

alive and kicking relics of alara

Sat, 2009-11-07 15:26
lord_joakim
lord_joakim's picture

I really like this keyword

I really like this keyword though. Feels very UR.

Sat, 2009-11-07 23:22
copapoc
copapoc's picture

update on the counting to do

update on the counting
to do it with a dragnstor it would need 10 as an X O.O

resulting in a 5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14= a loot of dragonstorm (99 to be presice) O.O you will never need that muth tho ...

omph... just made epic fail ! forgot tho add the stormed copies! feedback will come later

-grtz. cop.

alive and kicking relics of alara

Sun, 2009-11-08 00:45
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

I like the ability (and yes,

I like the ability (and yes, it can create combos; this isn't a bad thing, and hopefully playtesting would eliminate anything that is tooo good or too unfun). I do see a problem with the current idea though, that is I think you can recur the spellstitched spell. What about:

Spell Threads XU
Artifact (U)
Spell Threads comes into play with X charge counters.
Spellstitch-4 (Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery from your hand with converted mana cost 4 or less and there isn't a card spellstitched to this one, you may exile it spellstitching this {type}. If you do copy it and cast the copy without paying its mana cost.)
Remove a charge counter from Spell Threads, exile the spellstitched card: you may cast it without paying its mana cost.

- Firstly, Wizards don't like mentioning the stack on cards, and nor do I. I think "resolves" falls into the same category.
- While I'm still not entirely happy with my version (it's about as long as you can safely make reminder text), I do think it covers all bases. There might still be a tidier way of doing it.
- It includes the 'only one spellstitched card' clause.
- It might be possible to rewrite it as "... you may copy it then exile it, spellstitching this {type}." which would trim it slightly - but this seems to allow multiple copies.
- The recasting clause is now tidier (even though you are exiling an exiled card). There's no point in copying it when you can just cast it.

Yes, this is similar to Imprint, but distinct enough to merit a new keyword. It's also fairly intuitive - it's just the actual mechanics that are awkward.

Note that Spell Threads should cost XUU probably, since it quickly becomes more powerful than Twincast.

Sun, 2009-11-08 06:17
InspiredOgre

costing of spicific cards

costing of spicific cards are clearly up in the air. I think even XUU is too cheap. Most spellstitch cards are going to require you to jump through some hoop to reuse the spell. The Spell Threads are simple, but they may actually be cut, as I dont know that I want to create a combo machine that works so easily. Examples of things you might need to do before a card with spellstitch allows you to copy the spell?

Damage an opponent (spellstitched creature)
Creature dies (spellstitched creature)
Card is the target of a spell or ability (any)
You take damage (any)
Creature takes nonlethal damage
Card has X charge or +1/+1 counters.
And many many more.

I had actually wished we would latch onto the creature one more... Spell Threads may be too close to the scepter, IMO, it unlikely to stay as is.

~~~

as for avoiding mentioning the stack... Or mentioning the term resolves... They do it with the scepter that was mentioned above. I assume they did then because it would be too long (the same issue we are running into) if a good wording comes out, great, if not, Im going with...

Spellstitch-4 (Whenever an instant or sorcery you cast with converted mana cost 4 or less resolves, you may exile it spellstitching this artifact.)
Remove a charge counter from Spell Threads: You may copy the spellstitched card and then cast it without paying its mana cost. If you do, put it into your graveyard as it resolves.

Yeah, it says resolved, but oh well.

~~~

As for combos. Copapoc, I dont think I am understanding the concept here.

You cast Seething Song, you have 5 red mana in your mana pool.

Seething Song is stitched, you immediately recast. Seething Song then goes away, it cannot be restitched, this is a one time thing, not a Xerox machine. 10 red mana.

Use 9 of the ten to cast Dragon Storm, which duplicated due to storm twice, creating 3 dragons.

END. Dragon Storm cannot be stitched, its way more expensive than id ever allow a spellstitch to be. CMC 4 is prolly the upward limit, IMO, but play testing will help figure that out.

I think we should be thinking about haunt, here, not imprint copying.

~~~

Maybe thats what it should be called... Spellhaunt.

Sun, 2009-11-08 09:27
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

Quote:as for avoiding

Quote:
as for avoiding mentioning the stack... Or mentioning the term resolves... They do it with the scepter that was mentioned above.

Nope Stick out your tongue
"Imprint - When Isochron Scepter enters the battlefield, you may exile an instant card with converted mana cost 2 or less from your hand.
{2}, {T}: You may copy the exiled card. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost."

Sun, 2009-11-08 16:23
InspiredOgre

Im sorry, your absolutely

Im sorry, your absolutely right. Its haunt that says resolved.

Such as here.

Mon, 2009-11-09 05:51
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

Fair enough. You still need

Fair enough. You still need to include "from hand" and "if there is no card spellstitched to this {type}".

Mon, 2009-11-09 06:56
InspiredOgre

Okay, here is my final

Okay, here is my final offer... (no, not really, but I think we may have it dialed in. Lemme know what yall think.)

Spellstitch-4 (Whenever an instant or sorcery you cast from your from hand with converted mana cost 4 or less resolves, you may exile it spellstitching this artifact if there is no card spellstitched to this {type})
Remove a charge counter from Spell Threads: You may cast the spellstitched card without paying its mana cost. If you do, put it into your graveyard as it resolves.

Okay, so, the spellstitch reminder text is all one sentence with 35 words. Runonsentancemuch? Thing is, I write run on sentences all the time, and add the fact that this is supposed to be rule-ese, a language foreign to me... Well, I donno how to work it.

Thoughts?

Mon, 2009-11-09 15:37
Rusty Keyes
Rusty Keyes's picture

With the current wording,

With the current wording the spellstitched card is the artifact, not the instant.

ಠ_ಠ

Mon, 2009-11-09 17:38
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

I disagree. The wording

I disagree. The wording doesn't define spellstitched. Note that Devour reminder text doesn't define the word devoured either, but the actual entry in the full rules does.

Mon, 2009-11-09 17:52
InspiredOgre

Along with HauntED, and

Along with HauntED, and KickED.

I think I am okay using the term spellstitched. 3 precedences are enough.

(That is assuming I understand what you meant, Rusty. Picks seemed to, but I admit, I didnt get your objection till he posted.)

Mon, 2009-11-09 18:13
Rusty Keyes
Rusty Keyes's picture

Holy Crap

*sigh* Let's go over this again...

I'm not talking about rules technicalities or anything like that; I'm talking about simple English. With the current wording, the artifact says the instant or sorcery is "spellstitching this artifact." The spell is doing the spellstitching to the artifact, meaning the artifact and not the spell has been stitched (by the spell).

ಠ_ಠ

Mon, 2009-11-09 18:37
InspiredOgre

No need to heave sighs at

No need to heave sighs at us. That was a very nuanced concern (a correct one) hard to explain that in one sentance. It still took me 3 reads to finally get what your saying. And Im not the only one who didnt get it.

Thank you for your feedback, how does this work?

Spellstitch-X (Whenever an instant or sorcery you cast from your from hand with converted mana cost x or less resolves, you may exile it spellstitched to this creature/permanent if there is no card spellstitched to this creature/permanent)
Perform action or meet criteria: You may cast the spellstitched card without paying its mana cost. If you do, put it into your graveyard as it resolves.

Im still concerned about the end of the line, when you use the spell for the second time... Does this sentance prevent people from spellstitching again?

"If you do, put it into your graveyard as it resolves."

Even if it works in rule-ese, is it intuitive enough?

Mon, 2009-11-09 19:47
Rusty Keyes
Rusty Keyes's picture

It'll automatically go to

It'll automatically go to the graveyard after resolving, so it's fine without the last line. It's prevented from being stitched again because it was cast from exile instead of your hand.

ಠ_ಠ

Mon, 2009-11-09 20:49
Guitarweeps

One more thing... I think

One more thing...

I think the correct way to have the criterion that there cannot be a spellstich already is to put it right after the comma like so.
(Whenever an instant or sorcery you cast from your from hand with converted mana cost x or less resolves, if there is no card spellstitched to this creature/permanent, you may exile the spell spellstitched to this creature/permanent.)

I think that is it.

Currently working on:
Undead Mini-Plane
Triannon Shard Refraction
Drel Alar Block

Tue, 2009-11-10 04:44
InspiredOgre

WOOT! Im calling it done

WOOT!

Im calling it done (unless someone comes in here and shatters my hopes and dreams)

Thanks all!

And thanks Rusty, I didnt realize why it was insisted that I ad "...from your hand" to the triggering clause till you pointed it out.

Thanks again, all.