Beseech the... King?
login or register to post comments| Thu, 2009-11-05 05:10 | |
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InspiredOgre
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Beseech the... King?I love cycles, they make my heart happy. Im of the opinion, however, that not all cycles need to be 5 cards, sometimes two, or 3, or whatever is enough. Im also a huge fan of Beseech the Queen. I love tutor effects, and I love the C/2 hybrid mechanic. So, I decided to make a Beseech the King, in white, as a mirror/cycle/whatever. Wonder what yall think. Here is the card. Beseech the King Before you say that this is not a white effect. White exiles everything nowadays... admittedly from the battlefield, but it seems to me a small step from that to this. Lastly, is it powerful enough for the cost (color pie concerns aside....) |
| Thu, 2009-11-05 14:20 | |
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Pichoro
Moderator / Template Developer ![]() |
Sorry, but even placeholderSorry, but even placeholder art must be credited. Even if the artist is obvious. Next time - I recommend using text versions of your card as well. Odds of Dying - 1:1 |
| Thu, 2009-11-05 18:38 | |
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Guitarweeps
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3-6 mana to snag one card? I3-6 mana to snag one card? I don't think that is useful at all. Whatever will they do with only three copies in the deck? I think you should pull all the copies of that card from the library. Even that is kind of iffy but could possibly be useful. Currently working on: |
| Thu, 2009-11-05 21:15 | |
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Silver Chocobo
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Its a cool card howeverIts a cool card however possibly reduce it's cost down to :sym4w: Dood |
| Thu, 2009-11-05 22:04 | |
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Rusty Keyes
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Except when it's on theExcept when it's on the battlefield it's presumed to be trying to kill you... In the library a card is an unknown quantity, it technically hasn't "done anything wrong" yet. So it's not white. ಠ_ಠ |
| Thu, 2009-11-05 23:20 | |
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Vergalon
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Yup, not exactly a whiteYup, not exactly a white effect. Walls of fire, in walls of steel, and walls, and walls, and walls... |
| Fri, 2009-11-06 05:03 | |
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InspiredOgre
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I simply disagree with youI simply disagree with you regarding it not being white enough. But how about this, cut the difference, AND deal with it being weak for the cost. Beseech the King Wording a little fast and loose, just trying to illistrate my point. |
| Fri, 2009-11-06 18:13 | |
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Guitarweeps
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That is actually muchThat is actually much better. It is much more useful and quite balanced. Would definitely see play and might even encourage people to play 3-of instead of 4 like Maelstrom Pulse which is kind of cool. It is pretty close to a removal from Urza's Destiny that I can't remember but it was similar cost and ability (I think nonblack though). This is a fair ability for the cost. It is powerful but I think it can swing it. The only problem though, is now you have removal in blue and green... Currently working on: |
| Mon, 2009-11-09 02:54 | |
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Rusty Keyes
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Still isn't whiteOgre, you can't just say you disagree with something without giving a backup explanation. Ask yourself what's going on between Last Breath, Mercy Killing, etc. Think about the flavor. ಠ_ಠ |
| Mon, 2009-11-09 05:03 | |
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InspiredOgre
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@Rusty: I really can say "I@Rusty: I really can say "I disagree" without explaining. I say: the sky is blue. Its not a matter of me trying to convince anyone. Its a matter of me not aggreeing. I say: "lookee here, now, I know this doesent seem white, but IMO, it will be soon." I really, really, really, dont want you to take this as me being overly mean, Rusty. Its an issue of precedence. I said I think its white enough, you all disagreed. I dont agree with your objections. This reverts to the original statement, in which I said... In essence. It may not be white now, but I think itll be white soon (tm). I think, though, that I am understanding your objections. Its not about flavor (not really) its that this card exiles a card and all others like it, with no drawback. All other cards in white that do that are saddled with a drawback. I think there are three things I would say in response. Thing three is admittadly philosophical, I think you shouldent take it as more than what I belive, and not a real defense of this spicific card. 1) Beseech the King is expensive. I know the arguement will be that it is not, but I think the cost (
This is pretty far from being splashable. Someone said this gives all colors removal, but my take on this is that every color has far more effective removal. White (well, this IS white, but) has Path to Exile. Blue has unsummon (yes, not removal, but cmon.) Black has so many better options, I am not even gonna talk about them. Red burns. And Green? I admit, you have a point there, but even for green mana-ramping, this cost is nothing to sneeze at (and why would they splash this over Path to Exile?) The concern about color-pies is actually very nuanced. This is because there are two seperate concerns within the same color-pie argument. One is flavor (Ill get to that in a moment.) and the other is power level issues. When we talk about a power level issue, we should really consider a tournament player. Would they ever splash this? I really doubt it. This to me answers the power level issue. Yes, its powerful (in its ability, in its non-traditional white-ness, and in its supposed ability to be splashed.) I disagree that these are actual issues. 2) You also mentioned flavor. Without knowing the rest of the set it belonged to, can you really stand on that ground? In addition to that, the set would include a reprint of Beseech the Queen, and have a flavorful Queen AND King character. And lastly, have a small mechanical concern with the number of land in play. This is also a drawback, the fact that the CMC of the target must be equal to or less than the number of land your control. I think enemy colors mirroring eachother some is VERY flavorful. More on that in #3. 3) This is the philosophical one. So, again, its a useful measure of my headspace, but its not fair to apply to this card. (Argueing that my headspace is a fair measure of anything is more than a little arrogant.) First as mentioned above, enemy mirroring is, IMO, very cool and very flavorful. WB, UR, UG, etc, ect. Enemy colors have been mirroring eachother for a long time. Mirroring, not emulating. Things are different. Black is all about creature destruction. White exiles. Its a mirror, and white usually pays for that. (Though, IMO, that payment is really quite minor. Path to Exile's payment (give opponent a basic land) is largely seen as meaningless (Look no further than its use (abuse) in tournament level play to see what I mean.)) This card goes further, I admit that. However, I dont think it goes too far. I also accept that that is an opinion. Lastly, and this is even more philosophical. I think white needs more, not less, creature kill. Will the element of payment for the effect ever go away? Will white ever get... Awe Blade God, I hope so! I love white, and I think its a great mirror. And I think its not more powerful than anything else. Especially if they print Awe Blade AFTER they print the following. Return From Exile Now, I love white, I think Return From Exile should be white, but I honestly dont know where that will go. But trust me, someday, the game will go there. (White gets an exile creature spell with no real drawback (though nonwhite is, sorta, but yeah, semantics.) And someone gets return things from exile.) ~~~ So, you asked me to back up why I disagree... I hope I did. Its more nueanced than it first appeared. Im not just being a child, "Nuh-uh!" But, all of the above can still be summed up as "I disagree." Which is to say that, this is what I think, but I expect a lot of people disagree. I accept that. At some point, we agree to disagree. (Though id love to continue the debate anyway.) EDIT A lot of the concerns raised are looking back. Someone else on the board made the statement (in some other thread, I think it was mine regarding my set) that they like to pretend they are working for WotC when designing. I do to. Wizards is indeed influenced by the past. Precedence is huge. It is however, not adhered to when there is reason not to. Looking back is important. But so is looking forward. This card looks forward more than back. Arrogant of me? Perhaps. But then again, I dont actually work for Wizards. (Yet, MWA HA HA AHA!) |
| Mon, 2009-11-09 18:23 | |
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Guitarweeps
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I do hope we see a littleI do hope we see a little interaction with the exiled zone. Obviously, it would have to be limited to maintain the integrity of the exiled zone. Here is a little card a came up with a couple moths back: Blessed of Souls I wasn't saying that you couldn't do it because it would give other colors removal. It was just a thoughful afterthought really. They did the same thing with Flame Javelin but that is ok. This is a strong card but it is doable. It is much better than the original IMO. Currently working on: |
| Mon, 2009-11-09 18:43 | |
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InspiredOgre
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Thank you, I think it wentThank you, I think it went from something questionable (because it was just deck manipulation, and it was also weak) To something really cool, all from dealing with both problems at once. Im happy where it is now. I agree, the exile zone always has to be treated carefully. |
| Tue, 2009-11-10 11:02 | |
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ALEX Ryugami
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WOwLOL, I also have a set idea about exile zone Sets that I make: |






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