The Wonderful, All-Encompassing Card Clinic

continued...
Sun, 2009-10-04 09:01
Rusty Keyes
Rusty Keyes's picture

That's ridiculous... just

That's ridiculous... just make the creatures attach to the vehicle. Bending the "creatures can't be attached to things" rule seems a lot easier than allowing the very confusing alternative.

"Ride" and "riding creatures" sound best to me.

ಠ_ಠ

Mon, 2009-10-05 00:00
Lord of 13
Lord of 13's picture

The Me'ki of Earthpillar

In my custom set, Earthpillar, there are long-slumbering gods, the Me'ki, that have been awakened from their rest. These powerful Avatars embody concepts of their colors, each of the five assigned its own color.
I wanted to check the wordings & power level of the Me'ki, specifically that of the Blue mana symbol Me'ki & the Black mana symbol Me'ki.

Me'ki of the Solemn Vow 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Avatar {MR}
Lifelink
Each player gains 2 life. Activate this ability only twice each turn. (You may activate this ability at any time.)
4/9

Me'ki of Inverted Reality 3 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Avatar {MR}
You may switch all creatures’ power and toughness until end of turn. (You may activate this ability at any time.)
Whenever you would draw a card, if Me’ki of Inverted Reality is exiled, instead put the bottom card of your library into your hand.
4/6

Me'ki of the Fallen Ideal 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Avatar {MR}
Intimidate (This creature can’t be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or creatures that share a color with it.)
Counter all spells that would target a player unless any player pays 3 life.
5/4

Me'ki of the Secret Fire 3 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Avatar {MR}
You may flip a coin. If you win the flip, Me’ki of the Secret Fire deals 1 damage to target creature or player. Otherwise, Me’ki of the Secret Fire deals 1 damage to you. (You may activate this ability at any time.)
8/5

Me'ki of the Ichor Oak 3 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Avatar {MR}
Me’ki of the Ichor Oak can’t be countered.
You may regenerate all creatures. Activate this ability only once each turn. (You may activate this ability at any time.)
7/7

Blood is thicker than water, but politics is even thicker than blood.
- Dune: House Corrino

Tue, 2009-10-06 05:06
kiligir
kiligir's picture

Majara's Experiment

Lord of 13:

Spoiler:
Remember the Lorywn incarnations? They also cast for 3CCC, and were all very powerful. Some of your Me'ki's are vastly in need of balance.

Me'ki of the Solemn Vow: This thing is pathetically weak. It's a very good blocker, but the ability is useless for this CMC. Try something along the lines of: "You may have target creature you control gain protection from the color of your choice. Activate this ability only once each turn.(This effect lasts indefinitely and you may activate this ability at any time.) This makes the thing a bit more worth the cost. Also, make it 4/6.

Me'ki of Inverted Reality: How are you supposed to exile this thing? Try this wording: "You may switch all creatures’ power and toughness until end of turn. Exile Me'ki of Inverted Reality. (You may activate this ability at any time.)
Whenever you would draw a card, if Me’ki of Inverted Reality is exiled, instead put the bottom card of your library into your hand and return Me’ki of Inverted Reality to the battlefield under your control." This makes it actually feel blue and would work great in a large game. Also, it makes it slippery, so make it a 3/3.

Me'ki of the Fallen Ideal: 5/4 is good with intimidate, but the second ability doesn't really fit the cycle of zero mana cost abilities. Try this: "Counter target spell that targets a player unless any player pays 3 life. Any player may activate this ability. (Players may activate this ability at any time.)

Me'ki of the Secret Fire: This feels really red, but you can land it out and kill everyone with luck. Let's balance it a bit: "You may flip a coin. If you win the flip, Me’ki of the Secret Fire deals 1 damage to target creature or player. Otherwise, Me’ki of the Secret Fire deals 1 damage to you. Activate this ability only if you have flipped ten or fewer coins this way this turn." (You may activate this ability at any time.) Also, 8/5 is huge. Try either 7/2 or 6/3.

Me'ki of the Ichor Oak: Feels right on for green. Could use trample and reach instead of "can't be countered," though. None of the other colors hurt a specific color, so it doesn't feel right in a cycle.

All in all, great cycle. I like the 0 mana symbol abilities without using the clunky "0 mana symbol: Effect." wording. Feels fresh.

I also have my own little design idea:

Spoiler:
Majara's Experiment - 4 mana symbol
Permanent {R}
When you cast Majara's Experiment, choose artifact or enchantment.
If you chose artifact, Majara's Experiment enters the battlefield as an artifact with “T, Return Majara's Experiment to its owner’s hand: Draw a card.”
If you chose enchantment, CARDNAME enters the battlefield as an enchantment with: “Return Majara's Experiment to its owner’s hand: Choose one — You gain 4 life; or target player discards a card.”

Tell me what you think.

The problem with philosophy is that no major philosopher had the internet.

Tue, 2009-10-06 05:38
desmonthesis

New design I just came up

New design I just came up with.

Corpse Shield 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Artifact
Kicker: Sacrifice three ceatures.
If you would be dealt damage, instead, put that many shield counters on Corpse Shield. If there are 10 or more shield counters on Corpse Shield, exile it.
Sacrifice a creature: Remove a shield counter from Corpse Shield.
If Corpse Shield was kicked, you may play it as though it had flash.

Angeli Domini UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Tue, 2009-10-06 17:42
windandfire
windandfire's picture

@Lord of 13: I think it'd be

@Lord of 13: I think it'd be a good idea to use the template "0 mana symbol: <effect>. Activate this only N times a bla bla." for your cycle. It'll make it much more clear what's going on, especially since an activated ability is defined by the ":"

@Kiligir: I'm instantly curious about Majara's Experiment. It doesn't seem powerful, but it's just so novel that I want to play with it! I'm assuming rules-wise it is just a nonenchantment, noncreature, nonartifact, nonland, nonplaneswalker permanent outside of play. Be funny to see it get stuck on the battlefield if it was put into play but wasn't cast, and without one of those very rare "destoy target permanent" effects.

@Desmonthesis: I'm quite puzzled. I want to tell you this should be at least half white because black would just suck up the damage and take you down with it, but the nature of this is very odd (as is with most Lawful Evil concepts being transslated into the magic colors, I'd imagine an evil cleric ordering his troops like this). I'm going to give a radical suggestion that may not fit your set, but I think it reconciles the flavor pie here:

Corpse Shield - 4 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Artifact (Or Zombie/Soldier/blank Wall if you like)
You may cast Corpse Shield as though it had flash if you sacrifice three creatures in addition to it's other costs. (I think a kicker like this is technically impossible, because you couldn't begin to cast it and it's kicker cost if you couldn't cast it normally at that moment, although I could easily be wrong)
If you would be dealt damage, instead, put that many shield counters on Corpse Shield. If there are 10 or more shield counters on Corpse Shield, exile it.
1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol, Sacrifice a creature: Remove a shield counter from Corpse Shield.

I think this fixes the color oddities by saying "(White) We've been slaying our opponents so well that the corpses form a blockade!" and "(Black) Help me build this wall. <Stab>"

Of course, there are other options available too, such as multicolor/hybrid/name and flavor shifts.


Now I've got a new thing I'm trying out, just a rough idea to try and work into a set.

Deadly Frog Venom - 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Instant {U}
Target creature gains deathtouch and has “Remove one poison counter from target player: Regenerate this creature. Play this ability no more than once each turn.” until end of turn.

That wording is really messy. My concept is for it to give a creature deathtouch, and have the option of cleansing yourself of a poison counter for a bonus effect if you can. I don't think Kicker is the right way to word it (early concepts of this set are already very much like a good 60% of Zendikar, and I'm trying to stay away from that) and I don't want the caster to remove more than one counter. Any ideas on this one?

"I will do science to it." - Kimiko “Thunderbolt” Ross
"I can wire anything directly into anything - I'm the professor!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
"Our tanks can't hold aggro of that magnitude!

Tue, 2009-10-06 18:18
Guitarweeps

@kiligar - An interesting

@kiligar - An interesting concept but I don't see what the point is. Why can't all three abilities be on an Artifact? Why can't all three abilities be on an Enchantment? The answer is, it can. So it is honestly, a waste of a good idea. I would suggest looking into something that would make it matter that it is an Artifact OR Enchantment. Have an effect that would usually only show up on an Artifact and another one that would usually only show up on an Enchantment.

Also, I think "as ~ enters the battlefield, choose Artifact or Enchantment" works better than current wording. That also fixes what would happen if it entered from another zone without casting.

Example:
Majara's Experiment - 4 mana symbol
Permanent {R}
When Majara's Experiment enters the battlefield, choose artifact or enchantment.
0 mana symbol Return ~ to owner's hand.
If you chose artifact, Majara's Experiment enters the battlefield as an artifact with “T, Target creature gets +2/+2 and first strike until end of turn.”
If you chose enchantment, CARDNAME enters the battlefield as an enchantment with: “All creatures you control get +1/+1.”

@desmonthesis - I like Corpse Shield as black. Or you could make it colorless with black activation cost. The kicker does not work in this case. Windandfire's suggestion fixes that.

@windandfire - Yes, giving a creature an activated ability like this is messy. I will try to suggest a change without kicker (which is hard because that is really what is going on here).

Deadly Frog Venom - 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Instant {U}
Target creature gains deathtouch.
You may remove a poison counter from target player. If you do, regenerate targeted creature.

It is similar to kicker, but it happens upon resolution rather than casting. It is cleaner and probably the easiest fix without using kicker itself. I am not sure if "targeted creature" is correct though...

Currently working on:
Undead Mini-Plane
Triannon Shard Refraction
Drel Alar Block

Tue, 2009-10-06 18:36
copapoc
copapoc's picture

I'm no good a powerlevel,

I'm no good a powerlevel, but i like corpse shield

I have a bit of a problem with [RAWR]

it's a keyword that goes like this

<prefix>hate -- effect [i](as long as a land permanent is on the battlefield, this ability is active)[i]

example

Spoiler:
Big temple of Nooo!
land (R)
landhate -- when ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice a land [i](as long as a land is on the battlefield, this ability is active)[i]
T: add 2 to your manapool

Big enchantment of Why ? WBURG
during your upkeep put a question counter on ~
enchantmenthate -- at end of your turn remove all questioncouneters from ~ [i](as long as a
enchantment is on the battlefield or a enchantment is on the stack, this ability is active)[i]

Big angry instantkiller 0
instanthate -- ~ phases out [i](as long as an instant is on the stack, this ability is active)[i]
1/1

colorhater 2
redhate -- ~ during your upkeep, ~ deals 2 damage to you [i](as long as a
red permanent is on the battlefield or a ed spell is on the stack, this ability is active)[i]


it's mainly just a wording issue i think

alive and kicking relics of alara

Thu, 2009-10-08 07:28
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

Big Temple - landhate is

Big Temple - landhate is pointless here. You can't sacrifice a land that isn't on the battlefield (and it's a land itself)
Similarly, any card with ~cardtype is pointless have ~cardtypehate. Yes, I know you can change types but it's pretty uncommon and rarely worth it.
instanthate - this doesn't work, because ~hate isn't a triggered effect.

In general I would treat it like threshold:
~hate -- If a ~ permanent is on the battlefield or a ~ spell is on the stack, then at the beginning of your upkeep.....
~hate -- :cost:: ability. Only use the ability while....

My own view is that including the on the stack clause is just wrong. Firstly, Magic has avoided using the Stack on card or reminder text. More importantly, it makes the text too long-winded for comfort and for that reason is unintuitive.

Finally, you might want to choose a more flexible term. How about 'bind' or 'bound' - landbound, redbound etc.

Thu, 2009-10-08 15:24
kiligir
kiligir's picture

Thanks for the feedback on

Thanks for the feedback on my idea, guys.

@desmonthesis: Corpse shield as it is worked IS a lot White/black mana symbol. Try this wording:

Corpse Shield - 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Tribal Enchantment - Zombie
You may cast Corpse Shield as though it had flash if you sacrifice three creatures in addition to its other costs.
If you would be dealt damage, instead put that many shield counters on Corpse Shield. If there are 10 or more shield counters on Corpse Shield, exile Corpse Shield. You lose life equal to the number of shield counters on it.
Sacrifice a creature: Remove a shield counter from Corpse Shield

The mana cost for the creature sac is only necessary if there is no penalty for for the wall falling "back on you." If you get hit by something that kills it, you lose the life you would have lost. Feels much more black.

I just don't know if you can count counters on a permanent that's leaving play. I'm pretty sure the action is related to the entire triggered ability, so we're good.

The problem with philosophy is that no major philosopher had the internet.

Thu, 2009-10-08 16:10
copapoc
copapoc's picture

@ picks-at-flies : tnx ^^

@ picks-at-flies : tnx ^^ i'll fix it, but since it would be used for Bad effect (like for instance sacrifice land, if u already have one) this would be a quite wierd if it's "bound" but hate is also not that awsome either ... i'll rename it but the reminder is purrfect now ^^ X3

alive and kicking relics of alara

Thu, 2009-10-08 16:49
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

Kiligir: Try: You may cast

Kiligir: Try:

You may cast Corpse Shield as though it had flash if you sacrifice three creatures as an additional cost.
Whenever you would be dealt damage, instead put that many shield counters on Corpse Shield. If there are 10 or more shield counters on Corpse Shield, remove all counters from it and exile it. You lose life equal to the number of counters removed this way.
Sac a creature etc.

Thu, 2009-10-08 19:12
Guitarweeps

You can track counters on

You can track counters on something as it leaves play. Otherwise, persist and Dusk Urchins would not have worked.

Currently working on:
Undead Mini-Plane
Triannon Shard Refraction
Drel Alar Block

Fri, 2009-10-09 11:39
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

You are right, sort-of, but

You are right, sort-of, but the wording is quite specific.
When ~ is put into a graveyard... - i.e. counted at the time of departure
So your could say:
"Sacrifice ~. When it leaves play in this way...." but it's no better than my wording above.

Fri, 2009-10-09 14:11
ALEX Ryugami
ALEX Ryugami's picture

Needs fixed

I have a card with ability as this, what do you think??

[Trigger] 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Instant (R)
Trigger a triggered ability of target permanent you control. (A triggered ability begins with the word "when," "whenever," or "at.")

I know the wording isn't correct, but somehow, does this card work at all??

Sets that I make:
Ilesh Mini-Plane (Still working on)
Ilesh, Expanded
Tales of Asdoria

Fri, 2009-10-09 20:39
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

Interesting. Actually,

Interesting.

Actually, that's all I have to say. There are so many implications of this idea that I don't know the next step. Several thoughts in comes the conclusion that some triggers don't make sense in this way. Take Angelic Renewal (chosen largely at random): if you trigger it's ability, which creature is brought back into play? A more recent example is Bloodchief Ascension: which is that player?

So... fun idea, tough to put into practice.

Fri, 2009-10-09 21:21
Guitarweeps

I think Angelic Renewal

I think Angelic Renewal would just be "countered" cause of no legal targets?
Bloodchief Ascension would actually work I think. I think this would be assuming that we treat it as if the trigger condition has been fulfilled. As Alex though, I don't know how to correctly word that...

Currently working on:
Undead Mini-Plane
Triannon Shard Refraction
Drel Alar Block

Sat, 2009-10-10 23:22
HudsonWolf
HudsonWolf's picture

I don't think that would

I don't think that would work, as often the target is in the trigger condition... For example, what would happen if you triggered the second ability of Grappling Hook... while it wasn't attached to a creature? In some convoluted sense it could work for some cards, but for most it would just be impossible. Not to mention broken.

I may contradict myself a lot, but at least I'm not a hypocrite.

Wed, 2009-10-14 01:18
Lord of Rivendell

A few for your consideration.

I have not had much experience with designing cards and I don't expect to instantly have a good sense of balance or utility. I would really appreciate your thoughts on these three cards. I would also appreciate any suggestions for card art (or anything else for that matter) for any of these cards.

Eternal Library GGGG
Rare
Enchantment
Sacrifice a non-token, green creature: return target card from your graveyard to your hand.
Sacrifice Eternal Library: shuffle your graveyard into your library.
(Flavor text: Silenced voices of the present unearth echoes of the past.)

Winged Watcher UB
Uncommon
Creature--Bird
Flying, Defender
Whenever Winged Watcher is dealt damage from a source an opponent controls, that opponent puts a number of cards equal to that damage from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
0/4

Shepherd of Night B
Common
Creature--Cleric
At the beginning of each player's main phase, add B to that player's mana pool. Each player loses 1 life at the end of his or her turn.
(Flavor text: Darkness is inevitable.)
1/1

Many thanks,

LoR

Wed, 2009-10-14 01:22
desmonthesis

Winged Watcher is very

Winged Watcher is very similar to Belltower Sphinx, and it's way undercosted if it's going to be that similar of a card.

Eternal Library would probably be fine if it was just "Sacrifice a non-token creature: DO stuff" instead of green. Also, I'm not sure it fits in entirely with the Green color - sacrificing is more of a Black archetype. Maybe it would be better as Green mana symbolGreen mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol or some other mixed cost.

Shepherd of Night is fine. It would be okay even without giving the extra Black mana symbol to the opponent.

Angeli Domini UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Wed, 2009-10-14 01:45
Lord of Rivendell

Thanks.

Thanks, desmonthesis, for the thoughtful comments. Let me share some of my thinking, perhaps you or others can help me continue to refine it and these cards.

RE Winged Watcher: I hadn't been aware of Belltower Sphinx--should have done more homework. I wonder if there's a chance to save this concept and casting cost, if I drop it to an 0/3 creature and assume that the 3 cc difference is attributable to having to use 2 colors, 0 power, defender, and 3 toughness instead of 5.

RE Eternal Library: I put "green creature" in there because I wanted to avoid some of the circles associated with cards like Squee, Goblin Nabob that would have enough synergy to make this too unbalanced. I suppose adding another color would address some of that. That said, graveyard recursion is certainly a green concept, though admittedly not as central as it is in black. Black already has a lot of reuseable recursion and I wanted specifically to disincentives using black with this deck, which is why I had GGGG. Maybe I'm too far afield of the color wheel here.

Re Shepherd of Night: Really? I figured that getting an extra black mana each turn could be a very powerful thing if only the one player got the benefit so I thought it only fair for each player to get it. I added that each player would lose 1 live at the end of the turn so that the caster would lose the life the turn before he gets the benefit of the extra black mana. The idea is that this is a risky card to cast because it can really help your opponents. All that said, where you suggesting that it should read. you get B at the begining of your first main phase and each player loses 1 life at the end of his or her turn?

Thanks again,

LoR

Wed, 2009-10-14 16:48
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

My comments on the

My comments on the originals:
Eternal Library - This is actually a pretty green affect, although asking for abuse still (this isn't necessarily a bad thing). I would suggest costing it a little more flexibly - so 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol maybe. I would also make sure you can only use the ability as a sorcery, and maybe add a mana cost to it (e.g. 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol). I think the wording is "green nontoken creature".

Winged Watcher - I always liked Belltower Sphinx but it was too expensive. A 3 mana version - as I think this should be - would be fun. I think the 2 mana version should be 1/1 without defender, maybe 1/3 with. 0/4 seems... slightly too much. It can take too much damage and survive.

Shepherd of Night - I sort-of like this. Mana acceleration is no longer black, but anything for a cost is. However, 1 mana isn't a cost, even with pain (and actually, the loss of life is arguably the point of the card). I think it would be fine at 2 mana. It's not going to be amazing because mana acceleration in black shouldn't be, but it will be noticeable. Also, "At the beginning of each player's end step, that player loses 1 life."

Wed, 2009-10-14 17:01
desmonthesis

Holy Cleansing

Holy Cleansing 4 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Sorcery
Destroy all non-land permanents. They can't be regenerated.
All lands are plains (This effect does not end at end of turn)

ETA: Meant to be 4 colorless, not 3.

Angeli Domini UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Thu, 2009-10-15 17:48
Lord of Rivendell

Thanks.

Thanks. These are excellent suggestions.

Re Eternal Library: I think I'll go 1GGG and 1G for the first effect.

Re Winged Watcher: I think I'll still keep it at UB and go 0/3 with defender. I take your point about 4 being too high for toughness. After all, a Rogue Elephant or Lightning Bolt will rid the battlefield of this card at a cost of milling three cards. This does not seem overpowered--even with Belltower Sphinx out there--when you consider that Glimpse the Unthinkable mills 10 for the same cost.

Re: I like your suggested wording. I think the idea that you take the damage a turn before you get the benefit of the mana acceleration AND that your opponents get the boost in mana BEFORE you, makes this a good candidate for a 1cc card. Maybe I'm really off here.

Thanks,

Lor

Fri, 2009-10-16 04:18
Lord of Rivendell

Delayed Fertility.

Admittedly, this card may not be a good idea. But I want to toss it out as food for thought. I like the idea of a card that you don't want play and that might just have to take up space in your hand on the chance that you'll choose to cast it at your detriment so that you can do something great that your colors don't ordinarily allow you to do.

Delayed Fertility GGW
Sorcery Rare
Reveal your hand to target opponent.
If Delayed Fertility is put into your graveyard, you put target nontoken creature you own and control on top of your library and lose three life.
If Delayed Fertility is in your graveyard, you may pay its casting cost to counter target spell and then return Delayed Fertility to your hand.

LoR

Fri, 2009-10-16 04:46
windandfire
windandfire's picture

First of all, taking the

First of all, taking the card itself: It's kindof too busy. The abilities aren't very interconnected or intuitive.

From a design standpoint, and what your trying to do: I don't think you should break the color pie just because you don't always want to play that card when you get it. Think of Wrath of God. You don't usually want to play that right away and yet it doesn't deal damage to a player or draw you any cards. What I see here is a Black mana symbolBlue mana symbol graveyard-based returning counterspell. Definatly not a Green mana symbolWhite mana symbol thing to do (and your earlier incarnation with the discard clause suffered the same problem: There are very few occasions when you can disrupt the color pie).

Although I do see potential in the "play this from the graveyard" effect, and would suggest, if you want to rework the card, a style like this:

Delayed Supression Bolt - 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Instant {R}
Look at target player's hand. You lose 3 life.
If Delayed Supression Bolt is in your graveyard, you may pay 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbol. If you do, counter target spell and return Delayed Supression Bolt to your hand.

That might be a bit to powerful unless you change it so the counter ability may only be played when an opponent casts a spell, and is removed from the game if you don't play it. If you do that it should be an uncommon or common I think.

"I will do science to it." - Kimiko “Thunderbolt” Ross
"I can wire anything directly into anything - I'm the professor!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
"Our tanks can't hold aggro of that magnitude!

Fri, 2009-10-16 13:46
Pichoro
Moderator / Template Developer
Pichoro's picture

Lord of Rivendell, stop

Lord of Rivendell, stop double posting. Its a forum rule. If you have the last post in a thread, you can edit it; do so.

Odds of Dying - 1:1
My Custom Set List
♥♥♥♥

Fri, 2009-10-16 20:41
windandfire
windandfire's picture

I'm coming up with a concept

I'm coming up with a concept right now and I'm wondering how fun it seems.
It's for a set based around survival and bounty hunters, and the mechanic is modelled after both tank abilities in MMOs and the Knight Class from D&D (weird inspiration for bounty hunters but you'll see the point).

Northern Bounty Hunter - 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature - Human Soldier
When ~ enters the battlefield, mark target creature.
Whenever ~ blocks or becomes blocked by a marked creature, ~ gets +1/+2 until end of turn.
2/2

Choking Powder - 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Enchantment
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may mark target creature.
Marked creatures get -1/-1.

Spidersilk Net - 3 mana symbol
Artifact - Equipment
Whenever equipped creature deals damage to a creature, mark that creature.
Equipped creature has "2 mana symbol, Tap symbol: Tap target marked creature."

Undercity
Land
When Undercity enters the battlefield, creatures you control become marked.
1 mana symbol, Tap symbol: Target marked creature gains shroud until end of turn.
Tap symbol: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.

And so on.

I want to avoid using "marking" counters because repetitive markings won't stack and I think it would be too clunky. So does this sound like a fun ability to you guys? These particular cards were just to demonstrate the mechanic and still need revisions.

"I will do science to it." - Kimiko “Thunderbolt” Ross
"I can wire anything directly into anything - I'm the professor!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
"Our tanks can't hold aggro of that magnitude!

Fri, 2009-10-16 23:48
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

Magic pretty much uses

Magic pretty much uses counters for this case, and there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't matter if something has duplicate counters on them, although you may want to say, "When ~ enters the battlefield, you may put a Mark counter on target unmarked creature." It sounds like a fun mechanic TBH.

Sat, 2009-10-17 01:10
Lord of Rivendell

Cool your jets Pichoro . . .

"Stop double posting" suggests that this is a habit of mine. I did it once. No reason not to be polite, even when reminding newer members of the rules.

Moreover, my consecutive posts were about different subjects. And, given how little traffic this thread has, I find it peculiar that you're snapping at anyone about this.

All this said, I'll be sure to combine subjects in the future when I am interested in posting before someone else has commented. But more likely than not, I'll keep my posting to a minimum.

Sat, 2009-10-17 01:27
Pichoro
Moderator / Template Developer
Pichoro's picture

Lord of Rivendell

Lord of Rivendell wrote:
"Stop double posting" suggests that this is a habit of mine.

You did it twice - I deleted the other.

Lord of Rivendell wrote:
Moreover, my consecutive posts were about different subjects.

I don't care.

Lord of Rivendell wrote:
And, given how little traffic this thread has, I find it peculiar that you're snapping at anyone about this.

Funny, that is the very reason I would cite as to why you needn't double post, even about different subjects.


All in all, I think you're the one reacting poorly here - to me, you need to cool your jets. I didn't call you names, no insults were hurled, no flaming took place. Yeah, my tone was flat. Sure, it wasn't especially welcoming, but then, I had already dealt with a double post from you once not long before that. On the other hand, I wasn't mean either. So, no, you don't get to be snarky with me in a public forum, for the whole MSE community to see, when you violated forum rules, and I told you to obey them without being mean to you, especially not without expecting me to dress you down and make it very clear that you're in the wrong here.

Get over it.

Odds of Dying - 1:1
My Custom Set List
♥♥♥♥

Sat, 2009-10-17 08:59
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

Lord of Rivendell - don't

Lord of Rivendell - don't mind Pichoro. He's fluffy really, but tends to be ... blunt ... in his role as forum moderator. Just read his comment as, "Just to let you know, we have a rule about no double posting. I'm the one who has to tidy up afterwards so I tend to get a little annoyed if you do it multiple times." And please keep posting, because you started off well (um, on the content).

Sun, 2009-10-18 02:58
Lord of Rivendell

ipse dixit

It's clear I've violated rule 7, which I will avoid in the future. Sorry about making your life more difficult Pichoro. Rule 1 is also an important rule for all who post on these boards.

@windandfire I like the mechanic you've proposed. I think it's fine to designate some specific kind of counter and leave it up to the players to find an appropriate indicia for that mechanic; a variety of cards use distinct counters. You could give the "marked" cards an interesting story based term like "virus" or "quarry" counters or something like that. But I like the mechanic.

LoR

Tue, 2009-10-20 01:17
HudsonWolf
HudsonWolf's picture

Now, I've had another odd

Now, I've had another odd set idea, and want some opinions on a cycle of mythics that embody the set relatively well...

Master Entity 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature — Spirit (M)
Permanents you don’t control are indestructible.
1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol: Exile target nonland permanent. Its controller may return a permanent from their graveyard to the battlefield.
3/7

Timehalt Leviathan 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature — Leviathan (M)
When Timehalt Leviathan enters the battlefield, return all nonland permanents to their owners’ hands and tap all lands.
Skip your main phases.
Shroud
6/7

Mustan Nightlord 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Vampire (M)
When Mustan Nightlord enters the battlefield, target opponent may fateseal 3.
Flying, wither
Sacrifice a creature: Target creature gains intimidate until end of turn.
5/4

Viashino Warlord 2 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Viashino Warrior (M)
When Viashino Warlord enters the battlefield, set your life to 10.
Haste
Creatures must attack each turn if able.
6/4

Nacatl Combatmaster 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Cat Soldier (M)
Double strike
Whenever Nacatl Combatmaster deals combat damage to a creature, remove that creature from combat and put a tactic counter on that creature.
Creatures with tactic counters on them have double strike.
“They are but savages, untrained in the arts of battle. Once they learn to fight, perhaps we can have a true war.”
4/6

So, uh, yes! Thoughts?

I may contradict myself a lot, but at least I'm not a hypocrite.

Tue, 2009-10-20 20:00
Guitarweeps

Master Entity - WAY to

Master Entity - WAY to powerful an effect for four mana. If this is not removed immediatly upon casting it can exile 2-3 permanents on fourth or fifth turn. That early there will be no cards in the graveyard to "balance" the effect. I would suggest this ability on a card with no less the eight mana.

Timehalt Leviathan - First, this doesn't work. It bounces itself everytime you cast it. Now, let's assume that it works as you intend (bounces all other permanents)... we have a 6/7 fatty with shroud for four mana... you also clear the path for his attacks by bouncing everything. Yes, you skip your main phases, but does that matter if you have a 6/7 fatty on turn 3-4 that your opponent cannot rid of with removal? Also, you will probably be playing instants and cards with flash anyways.
I would suggest going smaller and dropping the shroud to make it weaker to removal.

Mustan Nightlord - Your opponent scrye 3 is hardly an appropriate drawback for this guy. He is a fat, cheap flyer with potential to have mroe evasion. Also, wither and fateseal are not evergreen so unless you are using them often in the set I wouldn't have either.

Viashino Warlord - "your life total becomes 10". This is actually the closest of the cycle to being balanced. I am not sure that forcing your opponents creatures to attack is appropriate for this card. I think it would be balanced beter without that phrase.

Nacatl Combatmaster - I like the concept here but the card isn't very good. It helps your opponent more than you. It is basically a four mana fatty that will never matter. You will never want to attack with it if they have a blocker open and they will always want to leave a blocker open. Although, forcing your opponent to always leave one creature open can be helpful it is hardly fun and flashy enough for an iconic mythic. This feels like a borderline sucky-unless-you-use-it-right rare.

Overall, the cycle doesn't seem connected. The only overarching theme is that they all have the same converted mana cost and they all have a "drawback". The "drawbacks" aren't really comparable though as "You skip your main phases" is not equal to "your opponent scrye 3". Also, Viashino Warlord's "drawback" is great if you are at 2. I would suggest a more connecting theme like all the drawbacks are enter battlefield triggers or just don't call them a cycle at all and cost them more appropriatly, especially Master Entity.

---------------------------------------------

Well, I posted this in my set thread but it didn't elecit response. Since I really do want comments on it I am going try and post it here. I am open to comments on balance and flavor.

Planeswalking Vial 2 mana symbol
Legendary Artifact (R)
Planeswalking Vial enters the battlefield tapped.
2 mana symbolTap symbol: Exile target Planeswalker you own and Planeswalking Vial. At the beginning of the end step of your next turn, you may return both to the battlefield.
Planeswalking is not easy while in a fight. Sometimes you need a little...prompting.

For those who have read the books, you know that planeswalking is no small task. it takes a large amount of magic, concentration, and strength. The Planeswalking Vial is an artifact that assists Planeswalkers with an immediate Planeswalk, maybe in the face of danger or just to recharge. Of course, this is with the intention of coming back to the fight. Obviously, there are many ways to abuse this. You can save an almost dying Planeswalker, use the - or ultimate ability and then get a recharge, or get back a stolen Planeswalker (yes, this can happen).

Also, does the wording work to have it return on the NEXT turn if you use it during your turn?

Currently working on:
Undead Mini-Plane
Triannon Shard Refraction
Drel Alar Block

Wed, 2009-10-21 11:40
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

As I've done before, I'll

As I've done before, I'll comment without reference to the previous comments.

Master Entity - Basically, the negative here isn't anywhere close to balancing the ability. 2 mana to exile anything? If you untap with this in play, you should win. Combine it with graveyard removal - which is there is plenty of - and it's pure win for 4 mana. However, it's not all bad. If it became 6 or 7 mana to cast, with a 1WW ability cost, it becomes one of those splashy cards that Wizards likes. Of course it will be obscenely powerful, but at that cost it becomes just format defining, as opposed to format eliminating. Oh, and "return a permanent card...".

Timehalt Leviathan - As commented previously, needs an "other". I think this is a very blue card and again fits the idea of splashy mythic. The trouble is it is horribly unbalanced once more. At that cost I would recommend a 2/4 at most. Bear in mind that you can play other creatures afterwards by floating mana. Alternatively, it could be a 5/5 for 6.

Mustan Nightlord - You see, I actually like this. Compare it to Baneslayer Angel which, while incredible, is surprisingly not overwhelming in the current environment. Wither doesn't add much and could be dropped, but I'm going to say this is ok.

Viashino Warlord - I kept wondering if this should swap with the green one, but in fact both of them are partially off-colour. Red doesn't get to set your own health. That's black-white, maybe green. If you lose the first line, it balances as a 5 mana creature (at the aggressive costing you're doing).

Nacatl Combatmaster - Double strike is just not green. It's purely white or red (or both). If this was red, I would point out that doublestrike is so powerful that for four mana you would want no more than 2 power (maybe 3 if it was 1RRR, but then you drop the toughness). The drawback is negligible. This one needs a complete rethink.

These are extraordinarily concepts for splashy rares, and that's in a good way. It's just that for the most part they were horribly undercosted.

Guitarweeps: Planeswalking Vial - It's a nice idea but I don't think the Vial should return. As far as I can tell the wording works and, if the vial is sacrificed not temporarily lost, well costed. The trouble is, I think players will get annoyed that they don't get to use the 'walker the turn it returns. Maybe not. If you return in upkeep, I would suggest raising the artifact cost to 4, but activation 1.

Edit- I just noticed that guitarweeps and I completely disagree on the value of the drawback on Nacatl Combatmaster. My view is that you are rarely going to face a creature with 9 or more toughness...

Wed, 2009-10-21 19:09
Guitarweeps

@ Picks - Doesn't the

@ Picks - Doesn't the "remove from combat" clause remove the damage applied to the creature? That is what my comments were based on. I am not sure how that works as damage is applied, maybe it is to late. Although, that would make that clause meaningless so I think the intent was to remove the damage.

Vial - The end of turn was to balance the vial returning. I think that if it is sacrificed then it is balanced to return it during the upkeep. That would probably make more sense too being that it is a vial... I would probably drop the legendary if I do that. One time use items can't really be legendary (well, I guess they CAN).

Currently working on:
Undead Mini-Plane
Triannon Shard Refraction
Drel Alar Block

Wed, 2009-10-21 19:28
windandfire
windandfire's picture

@Guitarweeps - I also don't

@Guitarweeps - I also don't think the vial should be returned (sacrificed is fine). The way it is now means as long as you leave 2 mana symbol open and you're opponent doesn't draw shatter, your Bolas is going to be killing something quite often.

@Hudsonwolf - Here's my take on your cycle (and I didn't read most of what the others said, so this is stand alone)

Master Entity - A 4 mana 3/7 without defender is a bit odd. And the exile ability is much too cheap. I would give it defender and add a Tap symbol cost to the ability, maybe add 1 mana symbol more mana to it's CMC.

Timehalt Leviathan - For some reason I always see a lot of "shroud, and return all other creatures to their owner's hand." That's not a very fun mechanic. It's like if the Death Star had destroyed the Rebel Alliance on Yavin IV, Darth Vader would eventually just get board without something to challenge him. I think either Timehalt Leviathan should have some "when this enters the battlefield, tap all permanents (including it)" ability, where it seems like time actually does freeze.

Mustan Nightlord - This one is nice. But Black hardly gets X/X creatures for CMC X, so a four mana 5/4 flying wither isn't going to work. We've been introduced to plenty of grounded vampires recently. How about a vampire 5/3 that keeps the wither and sac abilities, costed based on Mass of Ghouls? Or maybe combine the intimidate and wither into the sac cost.

Viashino Warlord - Again, I think attacking for at least 6 on turn four is a bit much. This guy forces you to go all out and takes half your life as a cost right? To avoid having someone actually gain life, how about saying either "you lose 10 life", "your life total becomes 5" (ala Form of the Dragon) or "If you have more then 10 life, your life total becomes 10"?

Nacatl Combatmaster - Very interesting concept here. First think though, double strike in green is a no. And green fights more with instincts than tactics, so how about a +2/+2 boost, +1/+1 counter, or changing the color to white instead?

"I will do science to it." - Kimiko “Thunderbolt” Ross
"I can wire anything directly into anything - I'm the professor!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
"Our tanks can't hold aggro of that magnitude!

Wed, 2009-10-21 20:23
Guitarweeps

Well, you can't really blame

Well, you can't really blame a card that can abuse Bolas because he is totally awesome. A happy smile Anyways, although I see your point since they enter at the end of turn and the vial is tapped there is a lot that can happen: your opponent can attack bolas for lethal, play O-Ring, destroy the Vial, so on. Either way, I think that sacrifice makes the most sense flavorwise and mechanically anyways. What if the ability was tap and sac? The point of the Vial is to planeswalk without mana anyways.

Also, anybody have ideas how you could make this represent YOU planeswalking (without Plane cards that is)?

Currently working on:
Undead Mini-Plane
Triannon Shard Refraction
Drel Alar Block

Wed, 2009-10-21 20:55
windandfire
windandfire's picture

To represent an actual

To represent an actual player planeswalking one option would be a portal that chews through your deck, something like this:

Planar Gate - 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep you may, sacrifice all other nonland permanents you control and pay X.
If you do, reveal cards X cards from the top of your library. Put each permanent revealed this way onto the battlefield and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

This acts as the planeswalker's thoughts of "where have I been before, and what can I draw from there?", i.e. randomly summoning things they've encountered in the past to help out now.

"I will do science to it." - Kimiko “Thunderbolt” Ross
"I can wire anything directly into anything - I'm the professor!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
"Our tanks can't hold aggro of that magnitude!

Wed, 2009-10-21 22:31
Adam1949
Adam1949's picture

O_o and o_O

I would assume X is the number of permanents you sacrificed, or else you can play everything in that 200+ creature deck someone out there has...?
o_O O_o
O_o o_O

I am Adam1949, and I approve this Thread!
o_OO_o

Sat, 2009-10-24 19:02
A Tactical Waffle
A Tactical Waffle's picture

Here I need some help with

Here I need some help with the following cards. And PLEASE help me name my cards.

Spoiler:
Nobel Philosopher 1 2/W
Creature — Human (C)
T, Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, W: All creatures you control gain +1/+1 until the end of your next turn.
T, UU2/W: Counter target creature spell.
It’s amazing what a mind can do.
1/1

Soldier of the Creed WW
Creature — Human Soldier (U)
You may have up to 10 cards named Soldier of the Creed in your library at one time.
Sometimes, a team of only four is just not enough to get the job done right.
2/2

Black Assassin 2U
Creature — Human Assassin (C)
Kicker BB (You may pay an additional BB as you cast this spell.)
If you payed the kicker cost Black Assassin gets +1/+1 deathtouch.
1/1

Chilled Breath 1U
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant Creature
U: Enchanted Creature gets +1/+0.
Holy Cow! Thats cold!

The Cloner 2UU
Creature — Human Shapeshifter (R)
This creature can block more than one creature at a time.
UUU: Place a 1/1 human token in the battlefield.
1/1

Drake Tamer 1U
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
T, Add U to your mana pool.
T, 5: Place a 2/2 Drake token in the battlefield.
1/1

Dark Assassin 1BB
Creature — Human Assassin (C)
BB, Destroy target tapped creature.
2/1

Dwarf Miners 1R
Creature — Dwarf Miner (C)
2, Add R to your mana pool.
R, Add 3 to your mana pool.
Short angry guys
1/2

Fire Breathing Giant 4R
Creature — Giant (C)
R: Fire Breathing Giant gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
Famous last words:
“Look! A Fire Breathing Giant... I wonder why they call it that?”

3/3

Hatrid R
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature must be blocked by all creatures that can.

Unending Gargadon 5RRR
Creature — Beast (R)
Unending Gargadon three +1/+1 counters on it for each fading counter on it.
Fading 3 (This creature enters the battlefield with three fade counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a fade counter from it. If you can’t, sacrifice it.)
When Unending Gargadon is put into the graveyard from the battlefield, exile it instead with 3 time counters on it. Remove one time counter from Unending Gargadon during your upkeep. If you can’t, place Unending Gargadon in the battlefield for RRRR or sacrifice it.
0/0

CREATURENAME 7GG
Creature — Beast (R)
Trample
Fading 2 (This permanent enters the battlefield with two fade counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a fade counter from it. If you can’t, sacrifice it.)
11/11

Immortality WUBRG
Enchantment (R)
You can not loose, your opponent can not win.

Death and Life XYR/W
Legendary Sorcery (U)
Kicker RW (You may pay an additional RW as you cast this spell.)
Gain X life.
Deal Y damage to target opponent and creatures divided how you choose.
If you payed the kicker cost combine the X and Y values into a Z value. Gain Z life and deal Z damage to target opponent or creatures divided how you choose.

CARDNAME 3
Artifact (U)
When CARDNAME comes into play place a Shield Token on target enchantment.
If target enchantment is removed from play to anywhere remove a shield counter from it instead.
4, T: Place a shield counter on target enchantment.

Through enough goblins at any problem and it should go away. At the very least, there'll be fewer goblins.

Sat, 2009-10-24 20:01
Shiv2503
Shiv2503's picture

@A Tactical Waffle: Your

@A Tactical Waffle: Your cards seem to have some serious balance issues.
Nobel Philosopher: This card is broken[1] and should not be common I think this would work better.
1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature [U]
2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol, Tap symbol: Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.
3 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol: Counter target spell that targets a permanent you control.
Soldier of the Creed: I really don't see the point of limiting them to ten, you might as well just allow any number of them in your deck.
Black Assassin: ... really not sure what to do with this one...
Chilled Breath: No. This card will not work, blue just doesn't get this kind of card.
Dark Assassin: repeatable creature destruction should not be done on common (or even really an uncommon.)
Dwarf Miners Not really sure what you are trying to do with this card... It's an infinite mana combo by itself.
Fire Breathing Giant: I'd make it a 2/3 and maybe make it an uncommon.
Hatrid: Should be phased "Enchanted creature must block each attacking creature if able."[2] and should be costed at 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Unending Gargadon: Once agian not really sure what you're tying to do here.
CREATURENAME: should be vanishing 3. fading isn't used anymore[3][4].
Immortality: This should not be done! once this card is played Black and Red have no way to deal with it and you have an auto win!
Death and Life: Alot wrong with this card.

  1. The term is usually "life and death" due to life coming before death (life not to be confused with "unlife")
  2. given point number 1 you're card has the same name as Life//Death or more commonly know as "Life and Death"
  3. White is the color of life and black not red is the color of death.
  4. Y mana symbol isn't used anymore see Fireball.
  5. speaking of Fireball this card is strictly better then it and Fireball is a fine card.

CARDNAME: A card like this should cost a lot more for a card that could so easily be broken.
This card should make you snuffle shielded card into your library in my humble opinion. Also this card should be rare.

Sat, 2009-10-24 22:43
A Tactical Waffle
A Tactical Waffle's picture

@Shiv2503: I did exactly

@Shiv2503:
I did exactly what you said to do with Nobel Philosopher and :Soldier of the Creed.
I like Black Assassin, so I didn't change it.
I got rid of chilled breath.
I made dark assassin tap to use it's ability.
I made Dwarf miners tap to use its abilities.
I did exactly what you said to do with Fire Breathing Giant and Hatred.
I really like Unending Gargadon, so I didn't change it and hope to get further comments.
Changed the wording on CREATURENAME.
Got rid of Immortality.
I switched Death and Life's name to Life and Death. How would I word this correctly?
CARDNAME now looks like this:

Spoiler:
CARDNAME 3
Artifact (U)
When CARDNAME comes into play place a Shield Token on target enchantment.
If target enchantment is removed from play to anywhere remove a shield counter from it instead and sacrifice CARDNAME.

Through enough goblins at any problem and it should go away. At the very least, there'll be fewer goblins.

Sun, 2009-10-25 05:05
Shiv2503
Shiv2503's picture

One of the points on Life

One of the points on Life and Death was there is already a card (cards?) name life and death. When there is a card with the same name as a card you're making name it something like wheel of CARDNAME. Where card name is equal to the name of the card that has the aforementioned name. Also death isn't really a red thing.

For CARDNAME I'd word it something like this.

CARDNAME 3 mana symbol
Artifact (U)
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield put a shield counter on target enchantment.
Sacrifice CARDNAME: the next time target enchantment with a shield counter would put into a graveyard from the battlefield instead don't.

I'm not exactly sure if that's how you would word it though.

Sun, 2009-10-25 10:27
Guitarweeps

Dwarf Miner is still really

Dwarf Miner is still really powerful. He makes a colorless Dark Ritual every turn. He is a miner, so have him sac a land to get the mana.

Dark Assasin should not be common as said before. It is very similar to Royal Assasin which is already a great card and is rare.

Chilled Breath can be used the opposite way.
Chilled Breath U
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant Creature
U: Enchanted Creature gets -1/+0.

The Cloner is not a Clone or a Shapeshifter. Just make it a Human Wizard who makes Illusion tokens.

Drake Tamer - Don't make mana production in colors that don't get it. Especially in this case where it doesn't even make flavor sense.

Immortality - Don't get rid of this, fix it! It is a great idea for representing immortality which is surely an aspect that all planeswalkers would try to achieve. Just don't make it a catch all. Come up with a condition that your opponents have to meet or do to destroy it. Platinum Angel did the same thing but could be dealt with by creature or artifact removal so every color could deal with it. Examples:
"During your upkeep, if you control no creatures, sacrifice Immortality"
"Sacrifice five permanents: Destroy Immortality. Any player may play this ability."

Also, get rid of the "opponent's can't win clause" that doesn't make sense with you being immortal.

Currently working on:
Undead Mini-Plane
Triannon Shard Refraction
Drel Alar Block

Mon, 2009-11-02 21:39
Vergalon
Vergalon's picture

It's been a while

Hello all. I've gotten to thinking up a few cards, and some of them I'm not quite sure about yet:

Fire Sprite

Spoiler:
Fire Sprite
Red mana symbol
Creature- Elemental Faerie (U)
Flying, haste
At the beginning of the end step, return ~ to its owner's hand.
1/1

I'm not sure about this one for two reasons: Glitterfang and Zephyr Sprite. I'm not exactly sure i want to obsolete Glitterfang... and I'm also not sure I want to give red a hasty 1/1 flier... I've considered bumping it up to 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol, but then it's no good. So then I made it a 2/1... but then I would have to either make it at Red mana symbolRed mana symbol or 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol... and I'm not sure if it's even playable at those costs... So there's my dilemma. Help?

5-color Rare Cycle

Spoiler:
This cycle started in my first attempt of a set, and I've decided to resurrect it. It's 5 mono-colored rare creatures, each having 5 activated abilities; one for each color. Since none of the abilities cause the creature to tap, I'm not entirely sure about how balanced they are, so that's why I need help.

Shining Archon
4 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature- Archon (R)
White mana symbol: Target creature gains protection from black until end of turn.
Blue mana symbol: Target creature gains protection from red until end of turn.
Black mana symbol: Target creature gains protection from green until end of turn.
Red mana symbol: Target creature gains protection from white until end of turn.
Green mana symbol: Target creature gains protection from blue until end of turn.
4/4

Wizened Sphinx
4 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature- Sphinx (R)
Flying
2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol: Untap target creature.
2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol: Tap target creature.
Black mana symbol: Exile target creature card in a graveyard.
Red mana symbol: Target creature gains haste until end of turn.
2 mana symbolGreen mana symbol: Put target card in your graveyard on the top of your library.
2/5

Souls of the Remembered
4 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature- Spirit
2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol: Creatures get +0/+2 until end of turn.
2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol: Creatures get -2/-0 until end of turn.
3 mana symbolBlack mana symbol: Creatures get -0/-2 until end of turn.
2 mana symbolRed mana symbol: Creatures get +2/+0 until end of turn.
2 mana symbolGreen mana symbol: Creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn.
3/3
(not sure about this one XD)

Prismatic Firebird
4 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature- Phoenix
Flying
White mana symbol: ~ gains vigilance until end of turn.
Blue mana symbol: ~ gains shroud until end of turn.
Black mana symbol: ~ gains intimidate until end of turn.
Red mana symbol: ~ gains first strike until end of turn.
Green mana symbol: ~ gains trample until end of turn.
4/4

Tree of Seasons
3 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature- Plant
White mana symbol: Target creature gets +0/+1 until end of turn.
Blue mana symbol: Target creature gets -1/-0 until end of turn.
1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol: Target creature gets -0/-1 until end of turn.
Red mana symbol: Target creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
Green mana symbolGreen mana symbol: Target creature gets +0/+1 until end of turn.
0/5

Walls of fire, in walls of steel, and walls, and walls, and walls...

Tue, 2009-11-03 11:38
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

Fire sprite: I have a soft

Fire sprite: I have a soft spot for this ability, but always found it horribly overcosted. With that in mind, this seems fine. If you want a more historically 'balanced' version, try a 1/2 flyer for 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol

Cycle:
This is tricky. There's a bit of me saying "These are too complicated, they need simplifying". There's a bit of me which says, "but they'll appeal to Timmy, and you can have fun going across colours". I think there's ground to cover both views by restricting the abilities to its own colour and either its allied or enemy colours. This also gives you enough options that they don't get repetitive.

From the looks of things, they should all fly except the green guy - who should have reach, and maybe an ability to kill target flyer. Too many cycles had the green creature worst of the lot. Also, the ability costs should be equal (or, if it only has 3 abilities, the non-on-colour abilities should have equal costs). The blue one and green one could be beefed up a little and a lot respectively.

The division of abilities seems fairly good. I would suggest that the on-colour ability stands out from the others. I would also suggest moving targeted effects onto the black one, and green gets more interesting effects, like blue.

This could make them look like:

Spoiler:
Shining Archon - 5 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Flying
White mana symbol: ~ gains lifelink until end of turn.
Black mana symbol: ~ gains protection from black until end of turn.
Red mana symbol: ~ gains protection from red until end of turn.
6/6

Wizened Sphinx - 5 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Flying
3 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol: Draw a card.
2 mana symbolRed mana symbol: target creature can't block until end of turn.
2 mana symbolGreen mana symbol: Return target card in your graveyard to the top of your library.
3/6

Souls of the Remembered - 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Flying
Black mana symbolBlack mana symbol: Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Green mana symbol: Target creature get +1/+1 until end of turn.
White mana symbol: Target creature gets +0/+3 until end of turn.
3/2

Prismatic Firebird - 4 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Flying
Red mana symbol: ~ gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
White mana symbol: ~ gets lifelink until end of turn.
Blue mana symbol: ~ gets shroud until end of turn.

Tree of Seasons - 3 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Reach
3 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol: Destroy target creature with flying.
2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol: Tap target creature.
2 mana symbolBlack mana symbol: Return target creature card in your graveyard to your hand.
4/5

(Just some ideas.)

Now, my question derived from the Fix the Card thread, is how much does "Exile target creature" cost? i.e:

Spoiler:
CARDNAME - COST
Instant
Exile target creature.

-Aggressively?
-'balanced'?

Tue, 2009-11-03 22:39
HudsonWolf
HudsonWolf's picture

I'd probably put 'Exile

I'd probably put 'Exile target creature' at somewhere about 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol or 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbol.

I may contradict myself a lot, but at least I'm not a hypocrite.

Wed, 2009-11-04 03:28
Vergalon
Vergalon's picture

@Picks-at-Flies: I like some

@Picks-at-Flies: Ok, as long as someone else thinks the sprite is fine (what would making it a 1/2 do? XD)
I like some of your suggestions for the cycle a lot. Though, isn't the tree supposed to have defender?

@Hudson: Both would be either undercoated or pushing it due to evidence; Divine Verdict and Unmake.

You could probably cost it as an instant at 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol aggressively, 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol for definitely not broken.
For black, you could probably get away with 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol

Walls of fire, in walls of steel, and walls, and walls, and walls...

Wed, 2009-11-04 04:26
HudsonWolf
HudsonWolf's picture

@Vergalon: Actually, I was

@Vergalon: Actually, I was considering Unmake as well... it doesn't require a multi-colored deck, while 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol would. Also, Divine Verdict is hardly good evidence, as it's generally considered not very good. Would you use Chimney Imp to say that Hypnotic Specter is overpowered? Also, considering that 'Destroy target nonland permanent' and MORE is 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbolGreen mana symbol... I'd say those two are not at all broken. 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol, however, I would have issues with. That's strictly better than Unmake.

I may contradict myself a lot, but at least I'm not a hypocrite.