The Wonderful, All-Encompassing Card Clinic

continued...
Sat, 2009-07-04 08:13
Wavy
Wavy's picture

I've just about finished inputting my set in MSE, but there's just one card in it that I had to paste artwork onto:

Spoiler:

Sat, 2009-07-04 16:52
Fafnir
Fafnir's picture

I lol'd. Hard. Big smile

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Sat, 2009-07-04 19:37
Shiv2503
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@MageKing17: Overlooked that.
With the destroy effect.

Spirit Bomb X mana symbol
Artifact (C)
Spirit Bomb enters the battlefield with X fuse counters on it.
At the beginning of your upkeep put a fuse counter on Spirit Bomb.
When there are ten or more fuse counters on Spirit Bomb, sacrifice it. If you do, destroy all creatures. Spirit Bomb deals damage to each player equal to the total power of those creatures.

“Pomposity is when you always think you're right, arrogance is when you know.”
—Harvey Danger, Pike St./Park Slope
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Mon, 2009-07-06 03:37
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Here's one, for my next mini-set.

Shantus Bale White mana symbol
Planeswalker - Shantus (R)
Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you. Whenever damage is prevented this way, remove a loyalty counter from Shantus Bale.
[+1]: Target creature gains protection from the color of your choice until your next upkeep.
[+2]: Put a 0/1 Wall artifact creature token with defender into play.
3

Card notes: Shantus Bale is conceived as having the skin tone of an African-American. He is stout, unlike Teferi, but not imposing. He dresses simply, but his clothes are not ragged. A plain but clean shirt, pants, and boots. He wears a necklace with four finger-length colored crystals; the four non-white colors. He may carry a staff, but no shield or weapons. He is not a fighter; he is an emissary of peace. Where other planeswalkers may be greedy and self-motivated, Shantus is not — he is motivated by a true desire to protect others.

So, I'm sure some won't care much for his design for obvious reasons, but the basic design is not up for change. He was originally created as a response to someone claiming that Planeswalkers are all selfish - I don't see why that has to be so. Then, as I was fleshing out some of the "story" for my next mini-set, I suddenly had the perfect home for Shantus. I'm really more concerned with power level than anything else. And of course, if anyone has seen a good piece of art, I'd love to see it.

Note: I am willing to change his actual abilities, just not the layout. I have no intention of adding a true minus ability to him.

Mon, 2009-07-06 04:19
innuendo
innuendo's picture

The issue is pich look at it this way:

W
Enchantment
Put a 0/1 Wall artifact creature token with defender into play each turn.
Prevent the first 2 damage that would be dealt to you each turn.
If you are dealt 5 damage in a turn, sac ~.

That's is roughly the net effect, and it's fairly crazy I think. Maybe a bit too strong, but when you think about it, this card basically says this. I'm ignoring the first effect which is good, but not great since it's sorcery speed only.

The main issue will be the prevent two damage a turn for W and get a token each season. I mean you can pump him to 5 the first turn he's out, and then pump him 2 more a turn while pumping chump blockers out. Basically this will make killing you hard, and it comes down early too boot.

Try to lower the survivability aspect a bit since it's so strong.

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Mon, 2009-07-06 18:24
Guitarweeps
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I agree with innuendo about the power of the card. As a one drop it will immedietly change the game. Many decks won't be able to deal with him for the first three turns after spewing out walls and such. I feel that his abilities would warrant about a 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol or 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol.

I really like the concept behind Shantus. It is a cool take on the planeswalker. Why don't you have damage redirected to Shantus rather than dealing with the preventing stuff. It would be jus the same as redirecting damage which is already used for planeswalkers (except there is no choice here).

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Mon, 2009-07-06 18:42
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

He would be much weaker that way (although that might balance better against a cost of "W"). With the version I posted, I'm pretty sure a Lightning Bolt takes 1 loyalty counter from Shantus - yours takes 3 counters from him.

I'm not attached to the cost of "W", though. In fact, I suspect I may have originally put it there as a placeholder since I couldn't decide on a proper cost at the time.

Mon, 2009-07-06 20:24
Guitarweeps
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Guitarweeps's picture

Pich - Hmmm... Maybe I should try reading next time...

Anyways, what do you think of this little guy. Not just for balance.

Elves of the Wood Green mana symbol - (U)
Creature - Elf Warrior
Sacrifice Elves of the Wood if you control no Forests.
Their souls are bound to these woods; that is why they fight so fiercely to protect it.
2/2

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Mon, 2009-07-06 21:19
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

Quote:
With the version I posted, I'm pretty sure a Lightning Bolt takes 1 loyalty counter from Shantus - yours takes 3 counters from him.

I thought each point of damage was handled separately, or am I confusing that with card drawing? Certainly, if your way is accurate, I think your walker is severely overpowered - your opponent would need to have a swarm of creatures or using an alternate win condition to kill you, which severely limits the environment. Like that I would expect a cmc of /at least/ 6.

Elves of the Wood: considering that Savannah Lions has a virtual reprint in 2010, I think the card is fine! Nice idea too.

Mon, 2009-07-06 21:21
MageKing17
MageKing17's picture

Pichoro wrote:
He would be much weaker that way (although that might balance better against a cost of "W")
IMO, it balances it at all. If you don't redirect all the damage (or prevent and remove that many counters), he is insanely overpowered. Like a Phantom giving itself two +1/+1 counters each turn, only better, since you can't be touched as long as he's in play.

I think it should change to redirection and simultaneously go up in cost to at least 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol.

"In the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."

Mon, 2009-07-06 21:35
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Picks-at-Flies wrote:
I thought each point of damage was handled separately, or am I confusing that with card drawing?

You must be confused. As mentioned by Mageking17, we can look at the Phantoms for a similar effect. Phantom Centaur.

As for power level, he'll get tested out to see. In my eyes, he's susceptible to both direct damage and just plain old attacking. Sure, he protects you, but what kind of dummy attacks you and tries to break through rather than attacking him? The wall is a new chump blocker every turn, but it only stops one non-trampling non-evading attacker.

And on top of all that, he's not gonna win anyone any games himself.

Perhaps I'm wrong though. I'll be raising his cost to atleast 1WW. Thanks for the thoughts, guys.

Mon, 2009-07-06 21:47
Guitarweeps
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It has to be redirection because:

Shantus Bale wrote:
Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you. Whenever damage is prevented this way, remove a loyalty counter from Shantus Bale.

Combat damage is dealt all together. Correct me if I am wrong but this will prevent all combat damage period and remove one counter whether it was one creature or twenty. Obviously, with a +1 and +2 ability that means he will never die (save lots of burn or direct spells).

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Mon, 2009-07-06 22:03
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Unless you attack him, because attacking his owner makes no sense.

Mon, 2009-07-06 23:41
Guitarweeps
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I need to start reading more...

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Tue, 2009-07-07 01:54
MageKing17
MageKing17's picture

Unless I'm horribly misremembering, each creature's combat damage is dealt individually. It occurs simultaneously, but it's not one "damage event" for replacement purposes. So he'd lose one counter for each attacking creature.

Mind you, if you switch it to redirection instead of the "Phantom effect", there would be no advantage to attacking him because all damage to you will go to him anyway.

"In the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."

Tue, 2009-07-07 01:57
innuendo
innuendo's picture

Mage with a phantom multiple creatures still only removed one counter, this would be no different.

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Tue, 2009-07-07 02:49
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

MageKing17 wrote:
Mind you, if you switch it to redirection instead of the "Phantom effect", there would be no advantage to attacking him because all damage to you will go to him anyway.

Mind you, I'm not changing the wording of the effect. I like it worded the way it is. When the set is further along, I'm sure I'll find someone to test it with me, and we'll see how good he is and what sort of cost is appropriate.

Anyway, as Innuendo said, there's an oracle ruling saying that even being damaged by multiple creatures only removes one counter from a Phantom, and this is no different.

Now folks, please stop trying to persuade me to change that effect. I like that effect.

Tue, 2009-07-07 07:36
desmonthesis

I realized that Spellgorger golem was quite a bit overpowered, and broken when combined with things like Fling. So I've redesigned the card to have a much more manageable effect.

Spellgorger Golem 1 mana symbol
Artifact Creature - Golem
Trample
1 mana symbol, Discard a non-land card from your hand: ~ gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the discarded card's converted mana cost. You may play this ability only once per turn.
1/1

Tue, 2009-07-07 10:41
Guitarweeps
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I like the concept here; however, it is still a little too powerful for the cost.
I do not believe that artifacts have a 1/1 one drop. I may be wrong, but either way this is a 1/1 for a colorless which is pretty close to being undercosted/just right. Now add trample, which is only relevant with the ability. He also, has a very relevant second ability. This all too much for a lone 1 mana symbol.
Additionally, this is borderline too fast a boost for reanimate. Not a big deal, but again for just 2 mana you can drop a card for a very realavant ability and then reanimate it.
Also, with Autochthon Wurm you could attack for 16 the second turn. There are various other cards with high many cost that you could use. Again, they would probably be great reanimate targets.

Again, I really like the concept. I think you should keep the abilities the same, just change the cost.

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Tue, 2009-07-07 13:45
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

A bit of advice that Guitarweeps didn't give that I will - I suggest a rename. I know you probably like the name "Spellgorger", but it has a meaning in Magic already. Spellgorger Barbarian.

Tue, 2009-07-07 16:06
desmonthesis

@Pichoro - I didn't know about that other creature. I'll have to give it a rename, then.

@Guitarweeps - yeah, after reading through it again, it does seem a bit overcosted, AND too good of a fuel for reanimator decks. I played around with the cost and the ability, to try to make it a little more balanced.

Om Nom Nom Golem 3 mana symbol (I'm obviously still working on the name)
Artifact Creature - Golem
Trample
2 mana symbol, Exile a non-land card from your hand: ~ gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is that card's converted mana cost. You may play this ability only once per turn.
1/1

Tue, 2009-07-07 16:22
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

See, that's much better A happy smile Note that this is still a powerful card, but in a way that won't horribly break the game.

Tue, 2009-07-07 18:48
MageKing17
MageKing17's picture

I quite like this version. I wouldn't use it myself because I have a propensity for reanimation effects in my decks, but it now gives you a real choice (hit for a lot of power in the short term but lose a potentially powerful card or give up the short term advantage for long-term gain (assuming you can get the card out)).

"In the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."

Wed, 2009-07-08 07:26
desmonthesis

I came up with a new Planeswalker as well, one of the leaders of the wizard sects in the set I'm working on

Liana, Mistress of Time 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Planeswalker - Liana {MR}
+1: Return up to two target permanents to their owner's hand.
-1: Return up to three target cards from your graveyard to your hand.
-9: Each of your opponents shuffles their hand and all permanents they control into their library, and then draws seven cards.
3

Wed, 2009-07-08 20:44
Guitarweeps
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I think that two permanents for the +1 is too aggresive. This could easily lock out an opponent by bouncing their land until they cannot play anything. If you are on the play and get this out on the fourth turn then they have three lands out - bounce two - they have one - next turn they play another - you bounce both = locked. Way too much. Maybe if it had a higher cost, but I would suggest making it one permanent and nonland as well.

The -1 ability is overpowered and out of color. Blue cannot return anything from the graveyard it wants. I would make it
"-1: Return target instant card in your graveyard to your hand."
That is still pretty good as it keeps your counters in hand. Also, when you are getting low on counters you can just bounce some cards for a couple turns. Even like this it is a very powerful card.

I like the ultimate. Not sure if it is balanced, or if that matters. My experience has always been "I play the ultimate" and opponent says "concede".

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Thu, 2009-07-09 09:59
desmonthesis

I re-did her abilities, as you suggested. She now reads:

Liana, Mistress of time 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Planeswalker - Liana {MR}
+1: Each player returns a permanent they control to their hand.
-1: Return target instant card in your graveyard to your hand.
-9: Each of your opponents shuffles their hand and all permanents they control into their library, and then draws seven cards.
3

I'm also having problems coming up with wording for a specific card effect. It's an enchantment with a cumulative upkeep and shroud, so unless the opponent has mass removal of enchantments, it's staying until the controller can't pay the upkeep anymore.

What I want the enchantment to do is to turn every creature in play into a 0/1 creature with no color, abilities, or creature type. I also want it to prevent any effect from changing those attributes on creatures. Here's what I have right now, I'm not sure if I have it worded correctly.

Kheral's Decree 4 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Enchantment {R}
Shroud
Cumulative Upkeep -- 2 mana symbol
All creatures are 0/1 with no colors, abilities, or creature type.
Players cannot cast spells or activate abilities that would alter these attributes on any creature.

Thu, 2009-07-09 10:15
Guitarweeps
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Liana - I still think that two nonland permanents is to aggressive. Remember taht creatures are the main way of dealing with a planeswalker so if you can return two creatures to their owners hand every turn they will probably not ever be able to deal with this especially on the fourth turn. Bouncing one is still very good especially for a + ability and would still threaten a lock if played on the 4th turn and not dealt with.

Kheral's Decree - depending on how much you wanted it to truly stick around you could make it indestructible instead of shroud. Also, as is this card is a little vague about what it would counter and would not prevent bonuses from something already in play aka Glorious Anthem. I assume that you are going for a super Humility type effect.

I wonder if this would work in lieu of the 2nd line.
"Creatures are unaffected by effects (or is it game states now?) that would alter their power, toughness, color, abilities, or creature type."

I have a card that does something worded like that.

Auragaurd Monk 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature - Human Cleric
Protection from enchantments
~ is unaffected by effects from enchantments.
2/3

Would this work? I am horrible at layering stuff.

EDIT: I also think that the first line needs to read "all creatures are 0/1, are colorless, have no abilities, and lose all creature types."

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Thu, 2009-07-09 19:28
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Here's another one, being made from the top down. The art is the old Lord of the Pit art that was sketched for a past core set and not used - the one with the really big mouth. I'd like him to be black, atleast, and would like to avoid white or blue. Thoughts on colors and cost? I also am up for a new name if anyone thinks of one. This one sounds too much like Grixis.

Graxus, Eater of Planes <cost>
Planeswalker - Graxus (M)
+2: Exile target permanent.
-3: Put three 1/1 black Demon Minion creature tokens onto the battlefield.
-10: Exile all permanents.
\2/

Notes: Graxus is an eater of planes. He is a demon, who is merely doing what he must to survive. He is from before the mending, and was just unknown. He is not extremely intelligent, and is mostly guided by hunger. He is extremely large. Despite being "mended", Graxus maintains a high power level due to his high-mana diet. Graxus’ home plane is lost to time, having been his first meal.

When Graxus arrives, he begins eating slowly, while summoning minor Demons to protect him while he feeds. He prefers not to destroy a plane, because that means he’ll need to find a new plane to eat, but will if commanded to do so by an ally. When he is finished feeding, everything has been destroyed, and the plane itself is gone, leaving Graxus in the blind eternities, as though he had planeswalked.

Thu, 2009-07-09 19:41
Ulxiz
Ulxiz's picture

For the cost I would use 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolGreen mana symbol or 5 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol. Also, the last ability should say "Exile all OTHER permanents." or else it would destroy itself.

Thu, 2009-07-09 19:42
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

I intend him to exile himself.

Thu, 2009-07-09 21:02
HudsonWolf
HudsonWolf's picture

Ok, a few cards from the set I'm creating that I'd like opinions on in particular... mostly those that relate directly to winning/losing the game.

Hope Incarnate 0
Artifact
Flash (Just realized I forgot to put this on the original... oops.)
Play Hope Incarnate only if you would lose the game.
You cannot lose the game from loss of life.
If Hope Incarnate is destroyed, you lose the game.

Void Essence 0
Artifact
Pay 1 life: Exile target permanent. (You cannot pay life if you have zero or less... right? O_o)
If you have five or more life, exile Void Essence.

Both of those are kind of 'last shot' things... but in entirely different ways.

Stone Colossus 25
Artifact Creature
Affinity for permanents
20/20

Invincibility White mana symbol White mana symbol White mana symbol White mana symbol White mana symbol
Enchantment
If a player has a life total of 100 or greater at the beginning of their upkeep, they win the game.
Sacrifice five creatures and five lands: Double your life total. Any player may play this ability.

I may contradict myself a lot, but at least I'm not a hypocrite.

Fri, 2009-07-10 19:18
MageKing17
MageKing17's picture

"Play Hope Incarnate only if you would lose the game" can't possibly work, for a number of reasons. First, if you're about to lose the game, you won't have an opportunity to play spells or abilities. Second, spells don't work like replacement effects, you can't play them when something "would" happen. And thirdly, you're about to lose the game! You don't have an opportunity to play spells or abilities!

My thought? Make it sort of like regeneration.

Hope Incarnate - 0
Artifact
Flash
The next time you would lose the game this step, instead you don't and Hope Incarnate gains substance.
At the beginning of each step, if Hope Incarnate doesn't have substance, sacrifice it.
You can't lose the game from loss of life.
When Hope Incarnate leaves play, you lose the game.

"In the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."

Fri, 2009-07-10 19:43
innuendo
innuendo's picture

Substance is no longer rules defined mageking. At least once 2010 hits.

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Sat, 2009-07-11 01:28
MageKing17
MageKing17's picture

Doesn't matter, I was just postulating how it could be made in a way roughly equivalent to the card he posted.

Besides, nobody complains that made-up keywords aren't rules-defined. ;P

"In the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."

Sat, 2009-07-11 04:26
HudsonWolf
HudsonWolf's picture

Scratch that idea, then... I had thought there was some card that did a similar thing (Lichs Mirror), but I suppose that's an ability as opposed to the spell itself... what about:

Hope Incarnate - 3 mana symbol
Artifact
You cannot lose the game while Hope Incarnate is in play.
When Hope Incarnate leaves play, you lose the game.

Taking away flash and that sentence causing the issues, and adding a cost of 3 mana and more variety of the ability. Would that be balanced?

By the way, is there any reason the [card] tag doesn't work for cards with apostrophes in them? And/or is there a way around that?

I may contradict myself a lot, but at least I'm not a hypocrite.

Sat, 2009-07-11 20:35
ShadowKyogre

Okay, could someone help me balance these three cards? I intend them to be mythic rares, but I don't want them to break the game too much (going to the actual YMtC forums netted little feedback on how to balance them... A sad &#039;frowny&#039;)

The Legendary Creature

Spoiler:
Img:
Spoiler:
Image Removed

Txt and reasoning:
Spoiler:
Sapphira, Unrelenting Devourer 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Demon Horror
Devour 1, persist
Sapphira, Unrelenting Devourer has all activated abilities of creatures it devoured except for variable power and toughness abilities. If the devoured creature had flying, then Sapphira, Unrelenting Devourer has flying. The same is true for fear, first strike, double strike, deathtouch, haste, landwalk, lifelink, protection, reach, trample, shroud, and vigilance.
You lose 1 life for each creature devoured.
The only payment she accepts is the flesh of her allies.
3/3

I am greatly thinking of taking off persist (due to devour/persist hate), it doesn't make sense on the card. Anywho, the Sapphira in this card is a psychotic demon who gets stronger...by eating. The price she has for her services is the lives of her allies. Need a more catchy name though.

4-abil planeswalker 1

Spoiler:
Img:
Spoiler:
Image Removed

Txt and reasoning:
Spoiler:

Aeon, Dawn of Time 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Planeswalker - Aeon
Whenever a time counter is removed, add 1 loyalty counter to Aeon, Dawn of Time.

+3: Exile a card in your hand with mana cost 1 or greater and place X time counters on it, where X is equal to that card’s converted mana cost. It gains suspend. You do not place loyalty counters on Aeon, Dawn of Time if you did not exile a card in your hand this way.

-X: Remove or add X time counters from or to a suspended card or exile target permanent. If the target permanent does not have suspend, it has suspend until it enters the battlefield. Place X time counters on it after it is exiled.. Ignore shroud and protection. Play this ability as an instant. X cannot be 0.

-10: Return all suspended cards to the battlefield under your control. For the rest of the game, if a card would return to the battlefield by suspension, it is under your control.

5
Aeon is the embodiment of time in a story I plan to make, and though it is pacifist, it's a force to be wreckoned with (as you see, none of these abilities are permanent removal stuff). I think I made the suspend a card in your hand ability soup Aeon up too much.

4-abil planeswalker 2

Spoiler:
Img:
Spoiler:
Image Removed

Txt and reasoning:
Spoiler:
Deigin, Dawn of Matter X mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Planeswalker - Deigin
+1: Target creature gets +X/+X until the beginning of the end phase or deal X damage to target creature or player, where X is the number of loyalty counters on Deigin, Dawn of Matter.

+3: Search your library for a creature spell or two lands. If you picked two lands, put them into play tapped. If it’s a creature spell, put it into play without paying its mana cost and it gains haste. You cannot play a creature spell that has a converted mana cost greater than the number of loyalty counters on Deigin, Dawn of Matter.

-X: X target creatures can only be destroyed by lethal damage. Control of these creatures may not be switched.

-10: For the rest of the game, damage dealt by a source you control is doubled.
X (this is dependent on how much you spent on X to play Deigin)

Deigin (the embodiment of matter), by contrast, is an extremely hostile being, especially if one messes with the natural order of things. I think putting an X in this card's casting cost broke it. Alternate casting costs are welcome.


Notes: I believed that giving only three abilities to the very essences of time and matter does not justify them, hence why I gave 4.

Sat, 2009-07-11 20:41
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

ShadowKyogre, I've removed the images. My reason: I don't believe that the art was really made by you. On this forum, we have a rule that you may not post a render with art unless you credit the artist. Now, perhaps I'm wrong and it was you, in which case, we can talk about it. But typically, art of that quality is made by someone other than the card maker.

Sat, 2009-07-11 20:48
ShadowKyogre

Well I actually did make all the art. They can be found in my dA gallery: http://shadowkyogre.deviantart.com . The deviations I used from my gallery are these three:
http://shadowkyogre.deviantart.com/art/I-think-this-is-my-best-so-far-95665876
http://shadowkyogre.deviantart.com/art/Aeon-Dawn-of-Time-64269336
http://shadowkyogre.deviantart.com/art/1000-views-The-God-of-Matter-66110324

All credits necessary for source stuff is in their descriptions.

Sat, 2009-07-11 21:28
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Wow. My apologies. I'll re-add your renders, if you link to them again.

Sun, 2009-07-12 01:24
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

So, card comments:

Sapphira: I have a thing about cards which force you to remember things. I know Wizards makes a few, but most of them have a very limited range of things to remember. I think Sapphira steps over the line. It's bad enough that you have to look through your graveyard and work out which ones she devoured, but it gets worse once people start zombifying/exiling/etc those cards. I think she would be better off just taking abilities from your graveyard. I know it weakens the concept, but sometimes you have to rethink.

The big problem with your planeswalkers is that you have huge amounts of text. Unfortunately I can't see the renders, but I'm guessing we're talking about Ice Cauldron sized text here. I think you can simplify both of your planeswalkers without hurting the concept.

Aeon:
-Remove the ongoing ability. You don't need it.
- Skip the last sentence in the first ability. It doesn't matter if the first ability doesn't do anything, you're getting more loyalty counters. Compare to most of the other planeswalkers.
- It took my a while to understand this one and I think you have to make up your mind which ability you want it to have. I actually think the removal ability is the best for both power and flexibility. No need to make it playable as an instant.
- The last ability has some odd wording:
"For the rest of the game, whenever a spell is played without playing it's mana cost, take control of that spell and choose new targets for it if necessary. Remove all time counters from all suspended cards."
This achieves what you wanted it to achieve PLUS it gives you a few bonuses on the side.

With those changes and playing with the numbers, I think this could have a cmc of 5.

Deigin
- The -X ability is... okay. But you don't give a duration on it, and if you did I can't imagine people remembering it. I think it would be better as a "creatures you control are indestructible until end of turn/your next upkeep" ability somewhere else. It doesn't seem to fit here.
- I like the IDEA of this first ability, but it is far too flexible for a + ability (compare to Chandra).
- Again, the second ability gives too many options. By this point it looks like this thing has 7 abilities. Also any kind of search like this is such a - ability, not a +.
- I really love the X in the cost, and you've actually used it well. Since it's Mythic Rare I'm going to work on the basis that you don't need to specify that "~ comes into play with X loyalty counters", that the X in the Loyalty box is enough.
- It feels so much like a RG card; the closest was the pseudo-indestructibility, and that's more green than white.

With all this in mind, I'll throw an alternate version back:
Deigin, Dawn of Matter X mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Planeswalker - Deigin
+1: Target creature gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the number of loyalty counters on Deigin, Dawn of Matter.

-1: Search your library for a creature or land card with converted mana cost no greater than the number of loyalty counters on Deigin, Dawn of Matter. Put that card into play.*

-8: For the rest of the game, damage dealt by a source you control is doubled.
X

Even at 3 mana, it turns into a super Sylvan Scrying. Late game, it becomes a bomb.
* I wouldn't suggest include haste unless you remove the land option. Removing the land option weakens it in the early game, which balances with the haste.

Hope that makes sense.

Sun, 2009-07-12 05:08
ShadowKyogre

@Pichoro: I would relink them, but I somehow can't edit my previous reply.

@Picks-at-Flies:

Sapphira:
Naturally I would place the tributed cards under Sapphira (since I don't think I'll remember either, and I'll remove persist). The natural solution for the proposed "turn food into equipped enchantment auras" and then use the text there. I believe that would reduce the need to remember.

Aeon:
I'll pick the temporary removal ability. I think it seems to fit Aeon more since it would temporarily punish something rather than just fast forward and back.

Deigin:
I'll remove the haste then.
____
To all: These will NOT be updated until tomorrow, have to go to bed for today.

Sun, 2009-07-12 13:41
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

ShadowKyogre wrote:
@Pichoro: I would relink them, but I somehow can't edit my previous reply.

Yes, once a post is replied to, you can't edit it. However, I can. That's why I said, I would fix the links if you provided them again.

ShadowKyogre wrote:
Naturally I would place the tributed cards under Sapphira (since I don't think I'll remember either, and I'll remove persist). The natural solution for the proposed "turn food into equipped enchantment auras" and then use the text there.

You can't do that, though. You're not allowed to, unless you exile them, in which case you can probably get away with it. The reason is that library order is to be preserved according to the rules, for the rare cases where it matters.

Sun, 2009-07-12 15:21
ShadowKyogre

Ah, okay. Here's the new updated images:

Spoiler:


Txt spoilers:
Spoiler:
Aeon, Dawn of Time 3 mana symbolBlue mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Planeswalker - Aeon
+3: Exile a card in your hand with mana cost 1 or greater and place X time counters on it, where X is equal to that card’s converted mana cost. It gains suspend.
-X: Exile target permanent. If the target permanent does not have suspend, it has suspend until it enters the battlefield. Place X time counters on it after it is exiled. Ignore shroud and protection. X cannot be 0.
-8: For the rest of the game, whenever a spell is played without playing its mana cost, take control of that spell and choose new targets for it if necessary. Remove all time counters from all suspended cards.
5

Deigin, Dawn of Matter X mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Planeswalker - Deigin
+1: Target creature gets +X/+X until the beginning of the end phase, where X is the number of loyalty counters on Deigin, Dawn of Matter.
-1: Search your library for a creature or land card with converted mana cost no greater than the number of loyalty counters on Deigin, Dawn of Matter. Put that card into play.
-8: For the rest of the game, damage dealt by a source you control is doubled.
X

Sapphira, Unrelenting Devourer 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Demon Horror
Devour 2
Exile all creatures Sapphira, Unrelenting Devourer has devoured (should I add something that also says place these cards under Sapphira?). Sapphira, Unrelenting Devourer has all activated abilities of creatures it devoured except for variable power and toughness abilities. If the devoured creature had flying, then Sapphira, Unrelenting Devourer has flying. The same is true for fear, first strike, double strike, deathtouch, haste, landwalk, lifelink, protection, reach, trample, shroud, and vigilance.
You lose 1 life for each creature devoured.
The only payment she accepts is the flesh of her allies.
3/3

And clearly Sapphira still has that mem prob D: And I think I'll need to remove flavor text at this rate.

Sun, 2009-07-12 16:02
HudsonWolf
HudsonWolf's picture

I suppose I'll put up the planeswalkers I've put in my new set for review... I was worried about them being overpowered, but now I think some of them might be underpowered....

Alkest the Designer - 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Planeswalker - Alkest (M)
+3: Add White mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol to your mana pool.
-X: Gain life equal to X doubled.
-20: Exile all nonland permanents except for Alkest, the Designer. Both players discard their hands and then exile their graveyards.
10

Alric Stefans - White mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Planeswalker - Alric (M)
+1: Creatures you control gain vigilance until end of turn.
-1: Creatures you control gain pierce (their power doubles when attacking) and steadfast (their toughness doubles when blocking) until your next upkeep step.
-7: Put an enchantment onto the battlefield reading "You cannot lose the game." If you sacrifice two Corics you control, it has shroud. Sacrifice Alric Stefans.
4

Falos, King of Drania - A 2/W hybrid mana symbol.A 2/W hybrid mana symbol.A 2/G hybrid mana symbol.A 2/G hybrid mana symbol.
Planeswalker - Falos (M)
+1: Put a 2/2 Dranian Archer token with reach onto the battlefield.
-2: Put two +1/+1 counters on each Dranian you control. Dranians can block two creatures until your next upkeep step.
-8: Return all Dranians from your graveyard to the battlefield with haste. Untap all Dranians you control.
5

Jenna Praddiff - A 2/W hybrid mana symbol.A 2/R hybrid mana symbol.Blue mana symbol
Planeswalker - Jenna (M)
+2: Tap or untap target permanent.
-1: Untap all lands.
-8: Take two turns after this one. (It was originally one turn and cost 7... is this more balanced, or less?)
3

Soralis, Dragonlord - 4 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbolRed mana symbol
Planeswalker - Soralis (M)
+1: Target permanent gains shroud until your next upkeep step.
-2: Remove all time counters from target suspended permanent.
-7: You may play two cards from your hand without paying their mana costs. They cannot be countered.
6

I may contradict myself a lot, but at least I'm not a hypocrite.

Mon, 2009-07-13 16:39
ShadowKyogre

Until I know the basis behind the card effects, I cannot accurately judge them. So far, this is what I think of these planeswalkers so far:

Alkest: Converted mana cost of 4 and it gets 10 loyalty counters (the planeswalker I made, Deigin, needs 12 to come in with 10 counters, two being its colors)? That itself doesn't seem right. +3 ability is okay (though it seems green), -X ability I would just put as Gain X life, and I think the -20 ability is fine. The cost needs serious fixing though.

Alric: +1 is okay, -1 might need a higher cost since pierce and steadfast can easily be overpowered (and steadfast and pierce sound like green/red abilities if you ask me), -7 I'm sort of dubious about, but I suppose it's balanced since Alric has to die for using this (and the two Corics who give it shroud).

Falos: +1 Seems okay, I'm not sure though. -2 I'm not sure either, and -8 I'm still not sure. Since this is Dranian focused, I would need to see some Dranian cards.

Jenna: +2 seems okay, -1 seems okay (not sure if it should cost that much), and I think -8 needs to change back to -7 + extra turn

Soralis: +1 seems okay (not sure). -2 seems okay, though I do not understand exactly why Soralis can do that, and -7 seems fine (not sure)

That's my evaluation so far.
_________________
I also have a card that needs balancing (no img yet) plus a few mechanics:
Aeon's Assaulter 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Illusion Incarnate (common)
Suspend 2 - 1 mana symbol (I think it should be Blue mana symbol instead of 1 mana symbol)
Aeon's Assaulter is unblockable.
Accelerate 1
2/1

What is Accelerate?
Accelerate (number): When ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may remove (number) time counters from a suspended card.

What is Chronos?
Chronos (number): When ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may add (number) time counters to a suspended card.

Thu, 2009-07-16 01:38
Rusty Keyes
Rusty Keyes's picture

I don't think a planeswalker should ever say "Sacrifice ~." It's usually a pointless addition seeing as many times using the ultimate in the first place will "kill" it anyway, and it doesn't make a lot of sense flavor-wise.

Administrator

Tue, 2009-07-21 02:48
Joz
Joz's picture

Haa haa, long time no see ^_^

got a couple for you awsomess to doctor!

I seem to have forgotten how to word things in my absence >_<, darn you college life!

Spoiler:


Tue, 2009-07-21 19:39
Ragnarokio

Ok, so i've just begun to make cards, and after looking at these, they look pretty unbalanced. Any suggestions?

Crayglor Lagoon
Legendary Land
Tap symbol Tap a creature you control: put X Murk counters on Crayglor Lagoon where X is equal to the toughness of tapped creature.
Tap symbol Remove X Murk counters from Crayglor Lagoon, add X mana symbol to your mana pool.

Crayglor Grassland
Legendary Land
Tap symbol Add a Grass Counter to Crayglor Grassland.
Tap symbol Add Green mana symbol to your manapool for each Grass Counter on Crayglor Grassland, remove half of the Grass Counters rounded down from Crayglor Grassland.

Arklar Queen 4 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Ant - Leader (you may only have 1 Leader Card per creature type out on your side of the field at one time)
Tap symbol Sacrifice an ant: put X 1/1 Green Ant creature tokens into play where X is equal to the sacrificed ants combined power and toughness.
Tap symbol Sacrifice X ants: put an X/X green Ant token into play
5/5

Zakbar Queen 4 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Ant - Leader
Zakbar Queen comes in play with 10 Ferocity Counters.
Tap symbol Remove X Ferocity Counters from Zakbar Queen: add X +1/1 counters to target ant. (You may not remove more than 3 Ferocity Counters per turn from Zakbar Queen)
When an ant you control is sent to the graveyard from play put X Ferocity counters on Zakbar queen where X is the ammount of +1/1 counters on the ant.
5/5

Defend the Hive Green mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Tribal Instant - Ant
Untap all Ants you control, they all tap at the end of this turn.

Tue, 2009-07-21 13:24
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

@ShadowKyogre -
For Aeon; I like the newest version quite well but I wanted to point out that the + ability is restrictive which can lead to problems with building up loyalty. What do I mean? Well, if you cast it with no other cards in your hand then you do not have the option touse the + ability. As a rule the planeswalker should always be able to use their + ability. The only case we have seen with a restrictive + ability is Elspeth as their must abe a creature to target, but they gave her an additional + ability so this is not an issue. Since this is a fairly strange and original card it might be ok as is as, just consider it. Additionally, I think that the "converted mana cost of 1 or greater" phrase is pointless. If you want you should be able to use it on a 0 mana symbol card, there are not many anyways. The 2nd ability is worded wrong; proposal below. The last ability shouldn't say "if neccessary". This is vague and out of line with other current wordings. Here are my proposed wording changes:

+3: Exile a nonland card in your hand and place X time counters on it, where X is equal to that card’s converted mana cost. If it does not have suspend, it gains suspend.
-X: Exile target permanent and place X time counters on it. If it does not have suspend, it gains suspend. You may use this ability to target permanents with shroud or protection as if they did not have shroud or protection. X cannot be 0.
-8: For the rest of the game, whenever a spell is played without playing its mana cost, you gain control of that spell adn may choose new targets for that spell. Remove all time counters from all suspended cards.

Deigin - If I am not mistaken the +X/+X ability will still be until end of turn. The "beginning of the end step" wording is for things like Ball Lightnings triggered ability "Sacrifice this at the beginning of the end step".
Also, a reminder, we "put onto the battlefield" now.

Sapphira - No, you do not need to say to put them under Sapphira, but I would suggest saying "Sapphira has all activated abilities of creatures exiled in this way" as this 'creates' a link from Sapphira to the exiled creatures (and the same with the other abilities). This is much like the hideaway lands in which case the players often would actually place the card under the land; however, the card was known only to the owner. In this case the cards are face up and known to all players so I don't think you can place it under the card. You would just have it in its own little pile. Last line should say "You lose 1 life for each creature devoured by Sapphira." otherwise it means for any creatures devoured during the game.

EDIT: Confirmed that the +X/+X is "until end of turn". The M2010 wording on Giant Growth confirms this.

Aeon's Assailer - Yes the suspend should be Blue mana symbol.
-------------------------------------------------------------

@Hudson Wolf -
Alkest - I would suggest having a lower + increase and less for the ultimate. This would be almost the same with a +1 and -10. Also, I would be hesitant to have a mana accelerator like this for white, that is green and sort of reds territory, but not white. Especially not this much at only 4 mana to cast. I agree with ShadowKyogre's comments on the starting loyalty too. As written this could be equal to 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbol - Gain 20 life. That is pretty ridiculous.

Alric - The +1 is weak. I suggest +1/+1 and vigilance. I assume that the two abilities are keywords for your set but pierce is pretty close double strike and is less interesting matter of fact. I would take a look at that. Either way I think that this should be -2 at a starting loyalty of 4. The ultimate is overpowered. Even without the Corics - shroud (which we don't understand unless you share more about that) thing it is still too crazy. You need to put some type of limit/stipulation on it. Also, you can't just put an enchantment on the battlefield. It needs to be a token such as "Put a token onto the battlefield as an enchantment the reads "...". I would also suggest fully against the Corics line and as Rusty Keyes mentioned don't have the sacrifice line.

Falos - This one is hard without seeing what Dranians you have made for the set. The first ability might be pushing it though as it makes a 2/2 with reach. The closest we've seen is the -1 for a 3/3 on Garruk but this is harder to cast than him.

Jenna - Compare the +2 to Ajani Vengeant which the permanent needs to already be tapped. Of course, this is blue and that is what blue does. Either way I think +1 is appropriate. The second I think should be -2. The ultimate is fine I think. They are supposed to set you up for the win. However, if you keep the +2 then you get to it too fast. On another note, where it the white or red in this?

Solaris - This is really janky and random. Nothing flows. Nothing is overpowered but the first ability is underpowered and the ultimate isn't very 'ultimaty' (unless you are holding Progenitus).

Check out my updated set hub.

Tue, 2009-07-21 17:45
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

Wow, lots and lots of cards. Let's see how far I get through this lot before my brain explodes and I have to do real work to recover.

__@ShadowKyogre__
_Aeon_
I think the only change I would make is for the first ability to only be +2 (I did mention you would need to adjust the numbers if you made it cheaper). @Guitarweeps - it HAS to be CMC > 0 because a you can't unsuspend a suspended card that starts with 0 time counters. The only way around this would be to make it a fixed number of time counters. A +1 ability for 3 time counters seems ok, or +2 ability for 4. I don't like the second ability ignoring Shroud and Protection. That's what they're they're for!

_Sapphira_
Still too wordy for a simple effect. I propose stripping it down to the following:
"Exile all creatures devoured by ~. Sapphira has all abilities of cards exiled in this way."
Any complications that arise fall under the same as rules as Clone etc. As a side effect, you get all the negative abilities too, but the simplicity easily makes up for that.

Deigin - see Guitarweeps's comments above. Still love it though.

_Aeon's Assaulter_
I quite like this. I suggest it becomes a 1/2 though. I'm not sure Accelerate/Chronos really need to be keyworded, but in principal they are fine. Should say "target suspended card".

__@HudsonWolf__
_Alkest_
Ug.
Only green and red really get mana acceleration. You MIGHT get away with -1 : Add White mana symbol. But ideally think of a new ability. How you thought that ability was balanced I don't know.
The lifegain is ok.
I'm not sure about the stripping your hand bit of the final ability, it's not really white. Having said that, it will depend on how balanced the rest of the card is whether it's acceptable or not.
Loyalty should be roughly equal to the CMC, up or down by 1 depending on the strength of the card.

_Alric_
Pretty much what everyone else has said. The ultimate could read, 'Put an enchantment token onto the battlefield with, "You cannot lose the game."' That's enough.

_Falos_
I like this card... to an extent. It's not that much more difficult to cast than Garruk and the extra starting loyalty covers that. The archers are easily equivalent to Garruk's beasts, so I think it should either be a +0 or -1 ability as written. Better perhaps to consider making them 1/1 or even 0/1 archers instead - after all the second ability can pump them.
Second ability is nice. I keep wondering if it should be a -2, but pretty much happy with -1. I WOULD simplify and remove the double-blocking clause. It changes the power level very slightly, but ideally planeswalkers read very easily.
Where I really have problems is with the final ability. White and green just don't do that level of resurrection. They might put the cards in your hand, and they might put them on top of your library, but almost never into play and never more than one at once. Moreover, where the first two abilities nicely work both together and with other tribal cards, the final one really says, "You should be playing Dranian cards" which is the opposite of what planeswalkers are meant to be. They are meant to be non-plane-specific. I would suggest rethinking this ultimate.

_Jenna_
This is my favourite of your planeswalkers, but still has some problems that need fixing.
I think Guitarweeps has it - this is a GU card (and shouldn't really be hybrid for that reason). Assuming then that the cost is 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolBlue mana symbol:
I agree the first ability should be +1.
The second ability is too strong for a -1, even though it looks even. I would suggest this is a -3 ability. This IS more than guitarweeps suggested, but since it allows you to double your mana, I think that's fair.
I like the final ability as costed.
With that in mind, I think Jenna can start at 5 loyalty.

_Solaris_
See guitarweeps above. I will say this: you shouldn't use affects that require block specific mechanics or cards on a planeswalker /unless/ they can also be used in reference to other abilities on the card. So suspending a card is fine. Unsuspending cards is fine if the planeswalker can suspend them. But unsuspending cards when there the planeswalker can't suspend them herself is a no.

__@Joz__
_Cobalt Leviathan_
????
At 10 mana, this is likely to be zombified into play more than cast. There is so much weird stuff on here too. It shouldn't get haste, rampage is ... better left dead, the second line is horribly worded, blue doesn't destroy creatures, black doesn't get to untap, the creature production seems weak for a 10 mana creature. My fix: "try again".

_Darkwell Bloom_
Probably could be 6 mana.
"As an additional cost to playing ~, you may pay 10 life.
Destroy all creatures. They cannot be regenerated.
If you paid the additional cost, put a 1/1 black Skeleton creature token into play for each creature put into a graveyard this way."

_Darkwell Wave_
"As an additional cost to playing ~, pay 3 life."
This is a weird card though. Why do other players gain life? Why do you wait until the end of turn to put the zombie into play? For the cost, I would suggest you simply kill a [non-X] creature and put a zombie into play. It's good but only in monoblack.

_Inkflesh Sliver_
Firstly, stick to normal sliver wording for sharing sliver abilities.
Since when does blue get damage prevention? How about, 'All slivers get, "Blue mana symbol: target non-Wizard creature blocking or blocked by this creature gets -3/-0 until end of turn".'
Black ability is fine.

__@Ragnarokio__
Sorry, done too much in one go, I'll get back to your cards another time. However, you do need to work at your presentation:
Firstly, you can insert symbols using : symT : (without the spaces) for Tap symbol, and similarly for W,U,B,R,G and Q.
Secondly, remember to use a colon : between ability cost and ability effect. So Tap symbol, tap an untapped creature: ~effect.