The Wonderful, All-Encompassing Card Clinic

continued...
Mon, 2016-08-29 19:14
Neottolemo
Neottolemo's picture

I think Proxy Warfare's first effect could work in Black mana symbol as it is really. It's a bend but not an outrageous one or a break. Although the card might need to cost 1 mana symbol more I think. At that point perhaps the second option might afford to say -4/-4.

Mon, 2016-08-29 22:30
ColinBeck
ColinBeck's picture

Engulf (When this creature enters the battlefield, you may exile a creature you control. If you do, this creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter. When this creature dies, create a copy of the exiled card, except it's a 0/0 green Ooze token in addition to its other colors and types and it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it.)

How well does this work/not work? I want it to be distinct enough from devour for it to not be just Devour But Better

I'm wearing my optimistic trousers today!

Mon, 2016-08-29 23:00
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

ColinBeck ) That's eight lines of text. If you're gonna make a creature with this ability, that creature isn't going to have any other abilities without making the text too small to easily read.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Mon, 2016-08-29 23:04
shiftyhomunculus
Moderator
shiftyhomunculus's picture

If I may suggest an alternative:

Engulf (When this creature enters the battlefield, you may exile a creature you control. When it dies, create a 1/1 green Ooze creature token with all of the exiled card's abilities.)

You can then write in variable effects like

Oozeman McOoze gets +1/+1 if it engulfed a creature.

You lose out on the counter interaction and some of the flavor, but it's a bit less unwieldy.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
formerly thehuw
they/them, please

Mon, 2016-08-29 23:21
ColinBeck
ColinBeck's picture

Hm. I think I'll cut the counter on the engulf-er, and make it no longer a copy, but I really want the 0/0 Oozes. How about-

When this creature enters the battlefield, you may exile a creature you control. When this creature dies, create a 0/0 green Ooze token with all of the exiled card's abilities that enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter.

I'm wearing my optimistic trousers today!

Mon, 2016-08-29 23:28
shiftyhomunculus
Moderator
shiftyhomunculus's picture

What's the functional difference between that and just a 1/1 token, though? Unless your set's very heavy on counter interactions, it feels a bit too cluttered.

(And you don't necessarily need to cut the P/T boost on the engulfer - like I say, you can write it in as a separate ability where necessary.)

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
formerly thehuw
they/them, please

Mon, 2016-08-29 23:40
ColinBeck
ColinBeck's picture

Yes, +1/+1 counters are a theme I want to explore pretty heavily. Oozes have already had a history with them in Simic and other places, and they fit the flavor mechanically well with being able to make the creature flew pretty heavily in size, similar to a large blob of goo that engulfs other things to make itself bigger and splits off bits of itself to do stuff, making itself smaller.

I think a lot of the french-vanilla creatures with engulf, the 'common training version' cards, will have that etb counter effect tacked on, but having it be in the mechanic itself was just adding to the line length.

This is for my BB character btw, an Oozemancer who experiments heavily with arcanomass, which is just very generic easily-produced biomass magically charged with anything handy. The mass is easy for the ooes to grow, but it doesn't do anything and isn't controllable until its been fueled- hence why they eat basically anything. Breaking apart matter, especially living, is a lot of magic to capture and use. So +1/+1 counters is my way of representing the arcanomass. When the oozes have a lot, they are pretty big and physically powerful. But to use their abilities or split and reproduce, they need to shave off the mass and use that- or more accurately, consume and release the magic inside it, and the de-charged biomass gel sloughs off useless. So they get an effect, but they're now smaller and weaker and need to fuel back up. counters seemed the most intuitive method of achieving the goal of high-variable creatures.

I'm wearing my optimistic trousers today!

Tue, 2016-08-30 01:26
The5lacker
The5lacker's picture

@Jeske: That's a whole lot of hypothetical creatures with definitively non-white abilities for this discussion about what white is or isn't capable of doing. Yes, I understand what you're saying. I just disagree. Because what you're saying is nonsensical. It doesn't matter that white can also force blocks. That is a thing they can do in addition to forcing not-blocks. The important thing is that it is 100% in white's wheelhouse for them to get Evade as I have worded it. It's a soft-force on blocks. Remember, it isn't "target creature can't block." it's "target creature can't block [b]this creature.[/i]" White gets evasion. White gets combat control. Evade is a form of evasion centered around combat control. It's very white. Its methods just don't sound white because people seem to assume white is only ever "stern, up-front, honorable combatants engaging in head-to-head!" Which...isn't the case in every context. Evade is thematically and mechanically white. Not primarily white, but nevertheless a snug fit.

@Cajun: "Disregard the fundamental structures of the game because making your dreams come true is more important!" Yeah, no thanks, I choose sanity over ego.

@Colin: What is your mechanical goal with this? Not your thematic goal of "ooze eats something, ooze spits it out." What are you intending this to play like? Because that is always priority 1. Because Magic is a game, and no matter how cool or fitting a mechanic is, if it's bad, nobody is going to play with it (Alas, poor Soulshift, we hardly knew ye...)

Remember, Flavor can be used to justify any number of terrible designs.

Tue, 2016-08-30 02:05
ColinBeck
ColinBeck's picture

5lacker, I hate getting into arguments and I don't know why I'm getting involved in this one, but no. Everything you have said thus far proves that your mechanic is white mechanically. Everything we have said so far says that your mechanic is not white thematically. Your last comment that it is thematically white states our argument and then says... well, something, but it isn't a rebuttal, a new idea, a counter-argument, or anything else really. It just says "nuh-uh" and then moves on. People assume white is "stern, up-front, honorable combatants engaging in head-to-head" because it IS. That is white's flavor. It is not GOOD in a similar way that black is not EVIL, but it IS honor, the following of established rules, and straightforwardness. Which your mechanic is not.

Technically, technically, your mechanic is something that white has a precedence of doing, even though it has always been surrounded by a caveat or difference. However, our argument that the mechanic FEELS sneaky, because it is sneaky. And monowhite is not sneaky.

Finally, the fact that we are having this argument and that you need to defend yourself is proof that, if this was WotC, your mechanic would not get through development white. Because a large percentage (in fact, everyone but you) of players and designers have felt it does not feel white and that it does not make thematic sense. If we feel this, the players will feel this. Even if you ARE right, it doesn't actually matter, because the player base is not all designers and they won't care to listen to your explanation of MTG's history of white and blocking effects to hear how it actually does make sense. The gut feeling is that it does not, and therefore, it does not. Magic isn't just a technical design challenge, it is a story, a universe, and an immersive experience that the company tries to enrapture their audience with. Otherwise, we wouldn't have flavor text, set plots, card names, or anything that doesn't interact with the rules text or set structure.

To sum it all up, I'm sorry. You might actually be right. But it doesn't matter if you are or not. Making that mechanic white is a bad choice and will bring down the quality of the set you use it in. You are of course free to use it however you like, and this is simply advice. I will caution that, just as you like to give advice, others do too. So maybe calm your responses a bit. Please be civil. The mods are lenient with you because they are nice people, but I have confirmation from them that you are riding that dangerous edge.

I'm wearing my optimistic trousers today!

Tue, 2016-08-30 02:10
ColinBeck
ColinBeck's picture

And my goal for the mechanic is to give Green mana symbolBlue mana symbol control a fun variability to their choices. They can play Green mana symbol-style with big creatures, but they lose the abilities of the creatures and just have big bodies- good for finishers in the decks. Or, they can sacrifice the body of the creature to have the abilities. The creatures will be weaker and they lose board presence, but the abilities can function much more effectively when you need a control-y Blue mana symbol-style response. I think choices like these make a fun deck to play, with careful planning and decisions to make. I draw some inspiration from Druid in Hearthstone, where the cards themselves are slightly weaker than the norm, but they are what you need when you need it. I also like that it ties both Green mana symbol and Blue mana symbol together into creature-based decks, with the strengths of each highlighted.

I'm wearing my optimistic trousers today!

Tue, 2016-08-30 02:35
Cajun
Cajun's picture

An emblem not being a literal token is hardly a fundamental part of the game. On the other hand, the rules being a guideline and not unchangeable law is so important it literally headlines The Magic Golden Rules in the comp.

Exiling emblems isn't even a case of "the rules say we can't", the rules say nothing but the way the rest of the game works implies it does work.

Cajun's Explorations - Cajun Style Templates - High Noon Reloaded

fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Tue, 2016-08-30 02:44
ColinBeck
ColinBeck's picture

Well, exiling them means that you put them into the exile zone. And they aren't things that exist. So they can't really be moved. I understand how you want this to work, but that wording doesn't work, and there have been many attempts to try a one-off emblem. Sadly it's very difficult to get rid of a thing that is designed and specifically worded to be something that can never be gotten rid of. Perhaps look for another way to limit its use to once only.

I'm wearing my optimistic trousers today!

Tue, 2016-08-30 03:00
Cajun
Cajun's picture

Last I checked tokens and copies of spells can be exiled, so that's hardly the reason.

Quote:
I understand how you want this to work
I'm not the one designing one-shot emblems, just saying you shouldn't needlessly destroy design space.

Cajun's Explorations - Cajun Style Templates - High Noon Reloaded

fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Tue, 2016-08-30 04:05
ColinBeck
ColinBeck's picture

No, tokens are moved to the exiled zone, leave the battlefield, cease to exist. They are things that can't be moved, so when you try to, they stop existing. This is something that doesn't exist in the first place. You can't interact with it because it's not a card You can't move it or try to move it or tell it to go somewhere. It's a representation of a permanent effect on your player. It's like adding effects to you, personally, as a human being. The emblem cards are simply reminders. Similar to how a number of cards like Arbiter of the Ideal put counters on their targets.The counters do nothing on their own- they are simply reminders. You can take the counter off, but it won't change the fact that that card is now an enchantment. Emblems are like that. They are representations of something that isn't an actual card.

And my apologies, I thought you were the card designer. I simply didn't check to confirm who the original author of the idea was.

I'm wearing my optimistic trousers today!

Tue, 2016-08-30 09:02
shiftyhomunculus
Moderator
shiftyhomunculus's picture

The5lacker wrote:
"Disregard the fundamental structures of the game because making your dreams come true is more important!" Yeah, no thanks, I choose sanity over ego.

You made instant a supertype.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
formerly thehuw
they/them, please

Tue, 2016-08-30 13:22
The5lacker
The5lacker's picture

@TheHuw: And it doesn't contradict anything in the comprehensive rules. It just adds to them. You...do understand the difference right? Like, every new abilities adds to the comprehensive rules. Good abilities don't just disregard them when they're inconvenient, though.

Remember, Flavor can be used to justify any number of terrible designs.

Tue, 2016-08-30 13:29
The5lacker
The5lacker's picture

@Colin: "WAH, YOUR MECHANIC HAS A NAME I DON'T THINK IS 100% WHITE!"

Talk to Prowess. And as for "white isn't sneaky", WROOOONG AGAIN! I'd say sending a decoy is pretty sneaky, if you ask me.

And I don't think I'd have nearly as hard a time convincing developers as I would you egotistical lot. We're on the internet. Nobody convinces anybody of anything because if anybody admits they're wrong it means they aren't a super special unique snowflake and that would make them sad. So rather than engage in any sort of discussion, you all have just gone "It doesn't SOUND white!" which, Flying. Single most common form of evasion in the game. One of white's primary mechanics. White evades. White has evaded since Alpha.

@Cajin: "WAH DON'T NEEDLESSLY DESTROY DESIGN SPACE!" Or, now this is just a theory, if you want your planeswalker to have an ability that emulates a spell effect...just make their ability emulate a spell effect.

Remember, Flavor can be used to justify any number of terrible designs.

Tue, 2016-08-30 13:31
shiftyhomunculus
Moderator
shiftyhomunculus's picture

It doesn't directly contradict the comp rules, but it represents a massive functional shift in terms of how the game is played. Emblems you can sacrifice or exile or otherwise get rid of... really, really don't. They change one mechanic which appears on some cards of a type not seen below mythic, and add onto a rule which is unclear as-is anyway. I don't see how you can seriously tell me that letting emblems be exiled is going to "disregard the fundamental structures of the game", but replacing an entire card type and keyword with a new supertype isn't.

The5lacker wrote:
you egotistical lot

Having different opinions from you is egotistical now?

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
formerly thehuw
they/them, please

Tue, 2016-08-30 13:32
The5lacker
The5lacker's picture

@TheHuw: Because it doesn't change nearly anything about how the game is played, and making it possible to exile Emblems changes HUGE SWATHS of prior rules about objects. You know, the fundamental building blocks of the game. Literally everything in the game is, in some way, shape, or form, and object.

If you bothered to actually read the comprehensive rules you'd realize that breaking them causes a lot more fractures than just "some cards very rare are very occasionally slightly different." Buuuut that would be applying any sort of effort to your argument so...we're purely in the realm of hypotheticals here.

And yes, having an opinion and refusing to change it with empyrical evidence that it is wrong is egotistical. You are placing more value in your ego than any sort of logic or reason. Textbook definition of egotistical.

Remember, Flavor can be used to justify any number of terrible designs.

Tue, 2016-08-30 13:34
shiftyhomunculus
Moderator
shiftyhomunculus's picture

At most, it'd mean making emblems a different type of object. I know the comp rules, I know what it would imply, and it's nowhere near game-destroying.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
formerly thehuw
they/them, please

Tue, 2016-08-30 13:39
The5lacker
The5lacker's picture

I didn't say "It would create a black hole and suck the game into it." I said it's a dangerous precedent and, even better, 100% unnecessary in every way, shape, and form. Nothing should interact with emblems. Ever. One change is never just one change. That's how rules work. They become precedent for other rules. And once you have precedent for emblems being exiled, it becomes much harder to ever say "No you can't exile an opponent's emblem." Because ignoring how terrible a design that is, that's technically not allowable by the rules, and so in addition to saying "That's a bad idea because X, Y, and Z" you can say "And also it doesn't even function like that."

See, this is what happens when you look ahead at future problems rather than at your own dick for immediate satisfaction. You start being wary of potential pitfalls and work to avoid them.

Remember, Flavor can be used to justify any number of terrible designs.

Tue, 2016-08-30 13:41
shiftyhomunculus
Moderator
shiftyhomunculus's picture

I don't see how these problems don't apply to your own swift subtype. Like, I don't want to keep dragging it back, but I'm curious as to how your argument applies to another mechanic which would also bring sea changes to the rules and is also 100% unnecessary. (Which I don't think is a useful metric, by the way. Very few mechanics are objectively "necessary".)

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
formerly thehuw
they/them, please

Tue, 2016-08-30 13:47
Yoshi
Community Award
Yoshi's picture

What colors would this mechanic be in:

Duet/Dance Partner/Tango for Two (Whenever this creature attacks, create a token that's a copy of it tapped and attacking. Exile that token at the end of combat.)

December 2017 - R32 - "We are more than just rank and file..."
February 2018 - DDH - "Remember that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer."

I stand with the specimen.

Tue, 2016-08-30 13:48
shiftyhomunculus
Moderator
shiftyhomunculus's picture

@Yoshi: Instinctively, primary red, secondary blue and white. That said, it's very similar to myriad, which appeared in all colors, so I don't think doing the same with this would be too much of a stretch.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
formerly thehuw
they/them, please

Tue, 2016-08-30 14:03
Cajun
Cajun's picture

@yoshi: I'm using it in R and W, tho U and G can easily get it too.

I see untouchable emblems as a bigger issue that screwing around with them. When they printed Last Word, they didn't throw up their hands and say There you go, can't be stopped, they made Time Stop.

I see jack about exiling emblems wrecking swathes of the rules. Nothing depends on emblems not being exiled, because it's not in the rules. What does it rewrite about objects? The other objects are abilities, tokens, copies, spells, cards and permanents, and each and every one can be exiled and otherwise interacted with. It's more unusual for emblems to be untouchable than the other way round.

Quote:
"WAH, YOUR MECHANIC HAS A NAME I DON'T THINK IS 100% WHITE!"
"WAH DON'T NEEDLESSLY DESTROY DESIGN SPACE!"
Ah, I see. I need another 5lacker for you to butt heads with until you realize how you sound.

Cajun's Explorations - Cajun Style Templates - High Noon Reloaded

fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Tue, 2016-08-30 14:14
Yoshi
Community Award
Yoshi's picture

Trying to design one mana walkers.

Zeroine of Doomed Zendikar White mana symbol
Planeswalker - Zeroine Mythic Rare
+1 Loyalty: Create a 0/0 white Ally creature token.
-3 Loyalty: You get an emblem with "Ally creatures you control get +1/+1."
-7 Loyalty: Destroy all non-Ally creatures. They can't be regenerated.
SL: 1

Periette, Oddball Red mana symbol
Planeswalker - Periette Mythic Rare
+1 Loyalty: Exile the top card of your library. Until end of turn, you may play that card if you discard a card in addition to it's other costs.
-3 Loyalty: You get an emblem with "Whenever you discard a card, this emblem deals 1 damage to target creature or player."
-6 Loyalty: Discard your hand, then create a number of 3/1 red Elemental creature tokens equal to the number of cards discarded this way.
SL: 1

Are either of these balanced?

Re exiling emblems: It's fine. While it does give precedent to exiling enemy emblems, that doesn't mean people will do it. Just as processors give precedent to interacting with exile in modern design, that doesn't mean people should be able to interact with their own exile. Plus, it's a small tweak to the comp. rules that opens up a lot of design space; much more than the Swift subtype does, anyways.

December 2017 - R32 - "We are more than just rank and file..."
February 2018 - DDH - "Remember that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer."

I stand with the specimen.

Tue, 2016-08-30 14:09
shiftyhomunculus
Moderator
shiftyhomunculus's picture

Zeroine is probably within acceptable power limits (a touch weak, I daresay), but it's really feel-bad that your first three turns are essentially blanks (two if you just want an emblem). I think you could make them 0/1s and you'd be fine. Periette's better, since it actually does something before it drops an emblem, but I think you need the emblem to deal damage rather than Periette, as otherwise the effect won't persist if it dies.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
formerly thehuw
they/them, please

Tue, 2016-08-30 14:21
Cajun
Cajun's picture

0/0 tokens feel really bad without the chance to get an anthem. Tested a two-mana walker with them and it just went so much better bumping it to four mana.

A 0/1 token machine for White mana symbol can easily be a problem, even without the other abilities, whereas the current is doomed to die before it does anything. Stuff like this is why 1 mana walkers are a nogo.

Cajun's Explorations - Cajun Style Templates - High Noon Reloaded

fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Tue, 2016-08-30 14:37
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

@The5lacker: Please, calm down, seriously.

You wrote:
And I don't think I'd have nearly as hard a time convincing developers as I would you egotistical lot. We're on the internet. Nobody convinces anybody of anything because if anybody admits they're wrong it means they aren't a super special unique snowflake and that would make them sad. So rather than engage in any sort of discussion, you all have just gone "It doesn't SOUND white!" ..

This entire rant fits on yourself in this context just as well. We have given other reasonings, yet you didn't care about these. I also pointed out a mistake in your argument and you didn't admit being wrong either (just tried a false counterargument which I actually already adressed earlier yet was completely ignored). And don't forget: I even agree with your mechanic being fine in white.

I think it's safe to say in the end: We apparently won't come to a consensus in this case, so let us all please drop the argument.

Concerning the emblems: Interacting with them or creating one-time-use ones is totally fine in my opinion. I wouldn't try to do this by working with the exile zone, though for multiple reasons. I wouldn't want to consider all possible interactions that could come up, also in my mind it's "graveyard -> exile -> command zone" in terms of "further away, more difficult to reach", even though this might be a personal issue. I definitely prefer the "ceasing to exist" wording, especially considering these terms already are used in the Comprehensive Rules anyway.

Concering Swift: Not sure if I'd want this as supertype, but you're actually fulfilling one of MaRo's dreams here. He's stated multiple times, if he would have the chance to change one of the original concepts of Magic back in Alpha, it would be getting rid of all instants and introducing Flash right from the start.

Tue, 2016-08-30 18:07
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Thanks for the help with Proxy Warfare.

Next up is a cycle; I'm a little worried it's a bit undercosted.

(For background: Salat and Sawm.)

Spoiler:
Salat of Mercy
Sorcery, Rare (Basmala)
White mana symbolWhite mana symbol

Shuffle target faceup enchantment or planeswalker card you own in exile into your library. Exile ~.

He prayed for freedom, but not for a means to keep it.

)-(

Salat of Introspection
Sorcery, Rare (Basmala)
Blue mana symbol:Blue mana symbol

Shuffle target faceup instant card you own in exile into your library. Exile ~.

She prayed for insight, without the context to appreciate it.

)-(

Salat of Sawm
Sorcery, Rare (Basmala)
Black mana symbolBlack mana symbol

Shuffle target faceup card you own in exile without "Salat" or "Wish" in its name into your library. You lose half your life, rounded up. Exile ~.

He prayed for wholeness of mind, but not for a wholesome body to enjoy it.

)-(

Salat of Passions
Sorcery, Rare (Basmala)
Red mana symbolRed mana symbol

Shuffle target faceup sorcery card you own in exile without "Salat" or "Wish" in its name into your library. Exile ~.

He prayed for enjoyment, but not the skills to temper it.

)-(

Salat of Unity
Sorcery, Rare (Basmala)
Green mana symbolGreen mana symbol

Shuffle target faceup creature card you own in exile into your library. Exile ~.

He prayed for a friend, but not for the means to satisfy them.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Tue, 2016-08-30 19:04
Yoshi
Community Award
Yoshi's picture

Could probably put the exiled cards in your hand. Shuffling them into your library is hella weak.

December 2017 - R32 - "We are more than just rank and file..."
February 2018 - DDH - "Remember that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer."

I stand with the specimen.

Tue, 2016-08-30 19:18
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Yoshi: The intent was weaker Wishes. (Wishes put the cards directly into your hand.)

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Tue, 2016-08-30 21:36
Yoshi
Community Award
Yoshi's picture

Then perhaps put them on top of your library?

December 2017 - R32 - "We are more than just rank and file..."
February 2018 - DDH - "Remember that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer."

I stand with the specimen.

Fri, 2016-09-02 16:54
Asthanius
Asthanius's picture

I have two versions of an Ashiok card. I want to know if one of them is too weak/strong.

If the images don't load for you, one of them is:
3 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbol
+1 Loyalty Each player exiles a card from his or her hand then exiles a card from his or her graveyard.
0 Loyalty Until end of turn, you may play one card exiled with ~ and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to play it.
-2 Loyalty If target permanent is tapped, exile it. Otherwise, tap it and it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
STARTING LOYALTY: 5

The second design is the same, but it costs 1 mana symbol more and has "Remove a loyalty counter from ~: Add Colorless mana symbol to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to play cards exiled with ~."

Fri, 2016-09-02 20:41
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

That fourth ability does not work the way you think it does. It's still a loyalty ability (If you ignore the arrows, all loyalty abilities are essentially formatted as "Remove/Add X loyalty counters from ~: <effect>"), and thus does not qualify as a mana ability.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Fri, 2016-09-02 20:57
voltaic-qui
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
voltaic-qui's picture

"Exile target tapped permanent" isn't Blue mana symbolBlack mana symbol.

formerly jacquipup

"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game."

Fri, 2016-09-02 21:42
Asthanius
Asthanius's picture

@Jeske: From the Comprehensive Rules - "209.2. An activated ability with a loyalty symbol in its cost is a loyalty ability."
Regardless, I can change it to:
4 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbol
+1 Loyalty Each player exiles a card from his or her hand then exiles a card from his or her graveyard.
0 Loyalty Until end of turn, you may play one card exiled with ~ and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to play it.
-X Loyalty Add X mana symbol to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to play cards exiled with ~. You may activate this ability in addition to ~’s other loyalty abilities.
-2 Loyalty If target creature is tapped, exile it. Otherwise, tap it and it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
STARTING LOYALTY: 5

Spoiler:

@Jacqui: Ooh, yeah, I guess I took Assassinate a little too far. Let's say that ability has "permanent" replaced with "creature."

Fri, 2016-09-02 23:17
TheBrokenUrn
TheBrokenUrn's picture

I need some cards that need critique. Each of them come from different sets I have worked on.

Sunbeam Ascension 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant Rare
You gain life equal to the number of permanents on the battlefield with counters on them (this includes +1/+1 counters, -1/-1 counters, level counters, charge counters, and loyalty counters).

Lumber Gatherer Green/wite mana symbol
Creature - Human Citizen Common
1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol, Tap symbol: Put a 0/1 green Plant Wall creature token with defender named Wood onto the battlefield.
Sacrifice a token named Wood: You gain 2 life.
1/1

Watcher's Fire 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Instant Mythic Rare
~ deals 6 damage to attacking creatures.
If ~ is countered, it deals 3 damage to target creature or player instead.

90% of the time, I'm wrong. The other 110%, I'm right.

Fri, 2016-09-02 23:58
voltaic-qui
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
voltaic-qui's picture

Um. Sunbeam Ascension needs every permanent on the battlefield to have a counter on it for it to be even remotely good (and even then it's pure lifegain which is bad). It could be neat as an ETB ability.

Lumber Gatherer is green/white hybrid with a G activated ability for some reason. Repeated token creation doesn't belong at common either.

Watcher's Fire doesn't work at all because the "if ~ is countered" ability targets. Also 6 to each attacking creature is overkill.

formerly jacquipup

"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game."

Sat, 2016-09-03 12:08
TheBrokenUrn
TheBrokenUrn's picture

So for Lumber Gatherer, increase in rarity. Done.

This card comes from the same set as Lumber Gatherer; it comes from a set revolving around bushcraft.

Four Stick Fire Red mana symbol
Enchantment
Sacrifice ~: Choose one -- ~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player; or add Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol to your mana pool.
Skillcraft 3 mana symbol (3 mana symbol, Sacrifice ~: Choose both options.)

I could also use some help with Skillcraft.

90% of the time, I'm wrong. The other 110%, I'm right.

Sat, 2016-09-03 13:39
Yoshi
Community Award
Yoshi's picture

I'm thinking the sac ability should have an ability cost, given both the versatility and is an almost as good colorshifted Dark Ritual as-is. Skillcraft is a pretty cool ability, though, and I'm digging it.

December 2017 - R32 - "We are more than just rank and file..."
February 2018 - DDH - "Remember that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer."

I stand with the specimen.

Sat, 2016-09-03 17:56
TheBrokenUrn
TheBrokenUrn's picture

@fluffy: Forgive me if I am wrong on this, but don't pseudo keywords have a theme within their rules text?

90% of the time, I'm wrong. The other 110%, I'm right.

Thu, 2016-09-08 06:12
Zoako
Zoako's picture

Thoughts on this legend I think a lot of people wanted out of BFZ block:
Conduit of Will A 2/W hybrid mana symbol.A 2/U hybrid mana symbol.A 2/B hybrid mana symbol.A 2/R hybrid mana symbol.A 2/G hybrid mana symbol.
Legendary Creature--Eldrazi Mythic Rare
Devoid (This card has no color).
Colorless mana symbol, Pay 1 life: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
White mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol: Each opponent exiles the top two cards of his or her library. For each land exiled in this way, create a 1/1 colorless Eldrazi Scion creature token that has “Sacrifice this creature: Add C to your mana pool.”
7/7

Render
*Snip*

All renders require proper artist credit in the appropriate space. ~Daij_Djan

Thu, 2016-09-08 21:12
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

fluffyDeathbringer ) Why not use Entwine? That's literally what you're reinventing right there.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Thu, 2016-09-08 21:19
shiftyhomunculus
Moderator
shiftyhomunculus's picture

@Jéské: Entwine only works as you're casting a spell, same as escalate. Can't be applied to activated abilities.

@Zoako: The first activated ability would be fine without the life payment. Overall this seems alright, though possibly a bit underwhelming for the awkward casting cost.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
formerly thehuw
they/them, please

Sun, 2016-09-11 03:55
Zoako
Zoako's picture

Thoughts on how this design could be fleshed out as a would be commander for devoid?

Conduit of Will A 2/W hybrid mana symbol.A 2/U hybrid mana symbol.A 2/B hybrid mana symbol.A 2/R hybrid mana symbol.A 2/G hybrid mana symbol.
Legendary Creature--Eldrazi Mythic Rare
Devoid (This card has no color.)
Flying
Colorless mana symbol: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
White mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol: Each opponent exiles the top two cards of his or her library. For each land exiled in this way, create a 1/1 colorless Eldrazi Scion creature token that has “Sacrifice this creature: Add C to your mana pool.”
7/8

I could have sworn I wrote in the Artist credit. Maybe I closed MSE somewhere and didn't save? I don't know. Proper credit now entered.

Render

Wed, 2016-09-14 01:19
Aarhg
Aarhg's picture

I've been trying to make a good red/white commander for an Equipment based strategy, and so I came up with this.

So this guy, Enrell, is pretty damn good at smithing on the fly, and he always brings more metal to play with.
If anyone's got some ideas on how to trim down the wall of text, or if there are any wording issues, I'd love to hear it, so I can improve this.

Wed, 2016-09-14 06:51
shiftyhomunculus
Moderator
shiftyhomunculus's picture

1) It's generally not a good idea to give a token the name of an existing card if it's functionally different to that card - I'd suggest tweaking that.

2) I think making the token innately an Equipment would make the card a bit less wordy, though actually it's only eight lines as-is, which is well within acceptable limits.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
formerly thehuw
they/them, please

Wed, 2016-09-14 17:09
Aarhg
Aarhg's picture

@thehuw: I usually always check if a card name's already taken, but here I obviously forgot. Thanks for telling me!

Fri, 2016-09-23 23:34
Sylphiod
Sylphiod's picture

Crooked Advisor 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature - Human Advisor Mythic Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep an opponent of your choice fateseal 2.
At the beginning of your drawstep, draw an additional card.
2/1