The Wonderful, All-Encompassing Card Clinic

continued...
Sun, 2013-12-15 01:40
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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@Velissa: "Whenever a creature attacks you, put a.." Shorter and cleaner Winking smiley That aside, I like him - somehow the cost of 3 mana symbol doesn't feel perfect, though. Lifeloss would be more in flavor, though more difficult to balance, propably..

Sun, 2013-12-15 01:41
WindyDelcarlo
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I tink it'd be better worded as "Whenever a creature attacks you...". I'm not sure if you're looking for planeswalkers too, but the wording comes from Circle of Flame

Sun, 2013-12-15 02:02
Trace100
Trace100's picture

@Daij_Djan & @Wind the wording should be fine since it is taken from another fairly resent card Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs. Something important to note is that this ability is not a ghostly prison. It works very differently and so the wording has to be a bit different. Mainly that this ability has no bearing on weather or not a creature can attack or not but. Is a triggered ability that activates when a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control. Also yes it does work with planeswalkers since even if they are only attacking your planeswalker you are still the defending player.

Sun, 2013-12-15 02:40
Eris Omnisciens
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@Trace: Zed means Z in many non-Murkan countries, so you may want to change lore.
She's pretty good, but I'd say that she should be a 3/3. A 4/4 intimidate for 4 is already pretty good already, esp. in Black.

nolite rem conficere

Sun, 2013-12-15 03:21
WindyDelcarlo
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Well, Kazuul is older than Circle of Flame. I'd always go with the up-to-date wording.

Sun, 2013-12-15 08:49
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs's wording is still up to date, it's the wording you indeed need if you want the trigger to work when they are attacking your planeswalker(s). Have to say, with Kazuul already existing (didn't remember that guy), Velissa looks less interesting because it's just so similar..

Sun, 2013-12-15 09:13
Trace100
Trace100's picture

@Daij_Djan ya I was kind of going for a throw back since Kazuul is a really see creature in just about any format but he does not feel broken. Also its the type of ability that fits in really well with the horde format. Though I needed to make it a little different and I also had to make it so its hard to block. Because otherwise it would be too easy to stop in horde magic. Though maybe its a bit too big at 4/4 Intimidate for 4. Maybe I will up its cost by one and give it deathtouch.

Sun, 2013-12-15 15:03
WindyDelcarlo
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I'm just wondering, because Circle of Flame does the same thing, what is the difference in the wording? When would you use each of them?

Sun, 2013-12-15 18:53
Trace100
Trace100's picture

@Wind Well the main differences is with the triggered ability. Its worded the way it is because it means your opponent cannot forget to pay. Since you are unable to put a token onto the battlefield unless you give your opponent the option to pay. As for the defending player part. I find defending player to cover more ground since as long as you are the one declaring blockers you are the defending player. Witch means it goes for planeswalkers as well also it takes into account any future cards that an opponent could attack. It may be a bit more wordy but I think its worth it.

Mon, 2013-12-16 01:10
Eris Omnisciens
Eris Omnisciens's picture

Wizards has printed way too much grave hate, so why not.

Remember the Lost 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Instant Red mana symbol
If four or more cards were exiled from your graveyard this turn, you may cast ~ without paying its mana cost.
Return any number of face-up exiled creature, artifact, or enchantment cards you own to their owner's graveyard.

nolite rem conficere

Mon, 2013-12-16 01:23
Trace100
Trace100's picture

@Eris Omnisciens Well its not broken since you don't really gain anything from it. I mean its three white mana making it hard to splash and white does not have much reanimation. Mind you the free play ability is not hard to pull off but the cards that make it the easiest to do ruin its effect. Namely Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace.

Mon, 2013-12-16 01:42
Sgt Failure
Sgt Failure's picture

Trace100: Neither Leyline of the Void nor Rest in Peace exile cards from the graveyard. (If you ignore the first ability from Rest in Peace that is.) They are both replacement effects, so in the case an opponent has either of those two out, Remember the Lost won't work at all.

Eris: Considering that, I don't feel that the exile zone should be taken as anything else than a temporary storage zone, i e Cloudshift or even Oblivion Ring, or a permanent remove from the game zone. I am aware that I have broken these rules myself, and that wizard has done the same (Looking at you Misthollow Griffin), but once you break the barrier in negating graveyard hate reactive, something is wrong.

If you insist on keeping the card, drop the "... to their owner's graveyard...". You already know you own the card, no need to write down additional words.


A card a day keeps the goyf away!

Mon, 2013-12-16 04:46
Eris Omnisciens
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If it's not obvious, I hate Rest in Peace with a seething passion. Stick out your tongue
Ground Seal was good, but by no means broken. Leyline of the Void was annoying. Rest in Peace is just the final straw, man.

There's no point anyways, they've already banned Dread Return and Golgari Grave-Troll in Modern. I don't know why they'd care if they have so many insane graveyard hate enchantments.

But yeah, I myself don't like it when people break the exile rule either. Just trying to think up some theoretical anti-hate.

nolite rem conficere

Mon, 2013-12-16 15:26
master creator
master creator's picture

Well here's how you could do anti-hate without breaking the exile rule

Rest Never Comes 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Enchantment Red mana symbol
Cards in your graveyard can't be exiled
Whenever a creature you control would be exiled, put it into your graveyard instead

hey everone im back Big smile

Mon, 2013-12-16 20:26
doc_T

What do you guys think about this?

Squallwing 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature - Bird Blue mana symbol
Flying
Sacrifice Squallwing: Put two 1/1 white bird creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
2/2

And another one I would like to hear some opinions on:

Fields of Gold
Legendary Land Red mana symbol
Tap symbol: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.
4 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol, Tap symbol, sacrifice Fields of Gold: Return all creatures put into your graveyard from the battlefield this turn to the battlefield.

Tue, 2013-12-17 01:42
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Master Creator: I really like the idea of Rest Never Comes, as well as the name, but don't forget about stuff like scavenge. You could pretty easily get 65 or more +1/+1 counters with Varolz the Scar-Striped and Death's Shadow.

doc_T: Squallwing looks pretty good to me. I'm not sure that Fields of Gold is in color for white, and the effect looks a little weird on a land. Just my opinion.

I think I posted this in here a while back, but I just revamped it and would like some feedback;

Barter <cost>
Exile this card from your hand: Starting with you, each player may {for_mana_costs(add:"pay ", param1)} until no player does. Then, the last player to {for_mana_costs(add:"pay ", param1)} {if contains("land", match: card.super_type) then "puts this card onto the battlefield under their control." else "casts this card without paying its mana cost."}

Example
Bought Secrets 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Sorcery Colorless mana symbol
Draw two cards.
Barter—Reveal a card from their hand (Exile this card from your hand: Starting with you, each player may reveal a card from their hand until no player does. Then, the last player to reveal a card from their hand casts this card without paying its mana cost.)

I think it might be too wordy, and not worded correctly. It could also potentially be ridiculously hard to balance, especially with nonmana costs. Any thoughts?

Tue, 2013-12-17 02:08
Trace100
Trace100's picture

@Kyoril Barter is interesting and the wording seems alright other then the cost reading Reaveal a card from "their" hand. In any other context it would be your hand but it kind of makes since here. Also as you said its very hard to balance because any free spells even more so for counters and draw spells have to be thought through completely. Now Bought Secrets itself basically says if you have at least 2 more cards then all other players at the table its free. Since you have to exile it and you have to reveal first. Though the thing is with this cards is that if you win the first time then you are sure to win the 2nd time. Meaning you can play 4 of these in one turn witch is super powerful in storm and combo decks.

Also making strictly better cards is normally a no no. So since it cost 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol for drawing two cards it is strictly better then Divination. Witch is a very well balanced card. Maybe make some way of keeping you from stacking Bought Secrets on top of each other. Like make it draw two discard two and lower its mana cost.

Tue, 2013-12-17 02:24
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Thanks for the feedback Trace, I'll try and think of some way to limit the freeness of the cards. As for the card itself, it was just intended as an example, though I'll keep the strictly better thing in mind.

Tue, 2013-12-17 06:14
Eris Omnisciens
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@doc_T: That flavor will need some fleshing Stick out your tongue. Anyways, it's an interesting card that leads to neat combat interactions. A solid pick in limited. They get ticked off and kill it only to watch it explode into more fliers.
Fields of Gold: Big effects like that always look weird, esp. On lands. I felt like Kamahl, Fist of Krosa just looked really awkward with an Overrun attached to him.

nolite rem conficere

Tue, 2013-12-17 09:47
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

Kyoril wrote:
I really like the idea of Rest Never Comes, as well as the name, but don't forget about stuff like scavenge. You could pretty easily get 65 or more +1/+1 counters with Varolz the Scar-Striped and Death's Shadow.

Or infinite with Slitherhead.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Tue, 2013-12-17 09:52
Trace100
Trace100's picture

Well to be fair Scavenge does not work with Rest Never comes since it keeps cards in graveyards from being exiled. The thing is with Scavenge exiling the creature is still part of the cost. So if you can't perform that action you can't use the ability.

Tue, 2013-12-17 10:10
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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True for Scavage, but what about Flashback?

Tue, 2013-12-17 10:11
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

Or Unearth...

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Tue, 2013-12-17 10:40
Trace100
Trace100's picture

Those are a different story though not as overpowering as Slitherhead could have been. Flashback would likely be the most powerful since you could get some solid effects for a cheap price but. At the very least its not infinite with any of the flashback cards we have now. Unearth is the least powerful with this since you could only do it once each turn at best and would still need to invest a fair amount of mana. Also it has never been that powerful of an effect so it may really be able to use the boost.

Tue, 2013-12-17 13:22
Neottolemo
Neottolemo's picture

So, yeah, I was toying with Rebound and created a couple of cards. I'd like to know: might these be problematic, or too complicated for Common?

Infernal Paperwork 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Target player draws two cards and loses 2 life.
Rebound (If you cast this spell from your hand, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile without paying its mana cost.)

Blazing Poem 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Add Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol to your mana pool.
Rebound (If you cast this spell from your hand, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile without paying its mana cost.)

EDIT - Also, does this play too much with the color pie or can it be a Common?

CARDNAME 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature Common
Flying
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, it deals 1 damage to each creature without flying and to each player.
1/2

Tue, 2013-12-17 16:58
Sgt Failure
Sgt Failure's picture

I think all of them should be at least uncommon.
Infernal Paperwork grants you four cards, blazing poem is too odd of an effect for its rarity and the creature has too much of potential to 2 for 1 the opponent in limitef.


A card a day keeps the goyf away!

Tue, 2013-12-17 17:31
WindyDelcarlo
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Blazing poem is definitely somewhere in red, but the rebound might be a bit too good for common.

Tue, 2013-12-17 17:48
Trace100
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@Wind I don't think so I mean rebound goes off during the upkeep meaning you can't cast anything that is not instant speed with the mana. So alot of the time the mana will go to waste. Also it does nothing but add to your storm count when you cast it the first time.

Tue, 2013-12-17 18:07
WindyDelcarlo
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Oh, yeah. I keep forgetting that mana empties at the end of each step, not turn.

Tue, 2013-12-17 19:04
Edgewalker
Edgewalker's picture

I'm looking for some feedback on some commons. Especially because I have some trouble choosing the right rarities..

Spoiler:


Yes, the set is going to be "Exile Matters". I made a new keyword, based on sending creatures into exile, and actually profiting from your creatures when they are in exile. It's called Shimmer. I might change the name later on, but this is the reminder text:

Shimmer — <cost> (2 mana symbol: Exile this card from your hand. Any player may put it onto the battlefield under your control by paying its shimmer cost.)
So, what do you guys think?

Current Set: Upanisha (130/228)
(Colorless/Artifact (9/13), White (27/32), Blue (24/32), Black (18/32), Red (16/32), Green (15/32), Multi (12/44), Land (10/10))
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Tue, 2013-12-17 19:29
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

Ritual of Purity is out of color (Red mana symbol).

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Tue, 2013-12-17 19:34
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Just commenting on things that seem obvious to me;

Unless you boost Sneaking Imp, it'll never deal damage, thus deathtouch will never trigger. I don't know if this was you intent or not. The card also looks a little weird without flying but wings in the art.

Grasp into the Aether doesn't work, since exiled cards aren't under anyone's control as far as I know. Try "Put target exiled creature card onto the battlefield under your control.It gains haste until end of turn. At the beginning of your next end step, sacrifice it." The name also sounds a little off. Maybe Reach into the Aether?

Tue, 2013-12-17 20:18
Neottolemo
Neottolemo's picture

Infernal Paperwork and Blazing Poem moved to Uncommon. The creature has been scrapped for now.
I looked through my set file and apparently I have two other potentially 2-for-1 cards at Common. Should I move them to Uncommon, too?

CARDNAME 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature Common
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may exile an instant or sorcery card from your graveyard. If you do, CARDNAME deals 2 damage to target creature.
2/1

CARDNAME 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature Common
Flying
When CARDNAME leaves the battlefield, target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
2/1

@Edgewalker: Ritual of Purity: Red mana symbol. See Pyretic Ritual and the like.
Turn Ephemeral: Probably fine. Might need to be Uncommon but I'm not sure.
Sicken the Spirit: Too complex for Common, too weak for anything. I'd scrap it.
Sneaking Imp: Deathtouch doesn't do anything on a 0-power creature.
Grasp into Aether: Try to go with Kyoril's wording.

Tue, 2013-12-17 20:28
Edgewalker
Edgewalker's picture

I was trying to find a way to create a white ritual, and thought the exile theme would work.
@neo :
*I'll put Sicken the spirit in unc, but I want to keep it, because of the exile theme. Maybe lower the cost?
*Sneaking Imp was supposed to not do anything unless you use something else to boost him. Kyoril has a point on the flying thing, though, I'll add that.
*Grasp into Aether will indeed be reworded, and renamed.

Current Set: Upanisha (130/228)
(Colorless/Artifact (9/13), White (27/32), Blue (24/32), Black (18/32), Red (16/32), Green (15/32), Multi (12/44), Land (10/10))
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Tue, 2013-12-17 20:40
WindyDelcarlo
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For Sneaking Imp, it'd be better if it had a way to make itself usable. See Elusive Krasis, a 0/4 unblockable with a way to make itself have a power.

Tue, 2013-12-17 20:42
Neottolemo
Neottolemo's picture

Only red gets rituals nowadays. White isn't a fast color in card drawing or in mana production, and it shouldn't be.
Sicken the Spirit is obviously not the only way you can do exile theme in black, and I think that even at a lower cost it probably wouldn't be played much. Why don't you go with somewhere else, like discarding tied to the exile?
Sneaking Imp's initial uselenessnes is weird, but if that's something you like, you can keep it.

Tue, 2013-12-17 20:43
Eris Omnisciens
Eris Omnisciens's picture

@Neo:
Paperwork: Very strong. 3 mana for 4 cards. Playable in constructed. I'd say make it 4, as even if you just view it as two sign in bloods stapled, this allows you to keep mana up next turn.
Blazing Poem: Interesting. Not sure what to think. Not playable in Storm, though, for obvious reasons.
Third one: Eh. Could've stuck with just creatures.

nolite rem conficere

Tue, 2013-12-17 20:57
Neottolemo
Neottolemo's picture

@Eris: I'm fine with the Paperwork being constructed playable. If it was four mana it would be probably worse than Ambition's Cost. EDIT- Nevermind, I remembered that drawing four cards. Well, then I guess I might up the cost after all. Or maybe make it three black mana. I guess it depends on where I decide to put that in.

Tue, 2013-12-17 21:22
Edgewalker
Edgewalker's picture

*Sneaking Imp is updated:

Spoiler:
Deathtouch
Whenever a creature card is exiled from your hand, Sneaking Imp gets +2/+2 and gains flying until end of turn
0/3

This way, it interacts with the exile theme of the set, and it can give the critter its wings, since they are in the art anyway Winking smiley

*Ritual of Purity has indeed been shifted to red. Since red is a fast color, I reduced its cost by 1.

*Changed the name from Grasp into the Aether to Reach into the Aether, and used Kyoril's wording.

*Deleted Sicken the Spirit. Loved the art though, so I'll have to think of a card to go with it.

As for the Shimmer mechanic, since I didn't see any critiques, I guess it is fine as is? If so, I finally created my first mechanic A happy smile

Current Set: Upanisha (130/228)
(Colorless/Artifact (9/13), White (27/32), Blue (24/32), Black (18/32), Red (16/32), Green (15/32), Multi (12/44), Land (10/10))
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Wed, 2013-12-18 01:45
Sgt Failure
Sgt Failure's picture

When reading the fluff in the Design game of this week, I got inspiration for another Mirrodin set, one where those still alive battles to prevent Phyrexia from spreading. With that, I created a new version of Koth, and would like some criticism on him:


A card a day keeps the goyf away!

Wed, 2013-12-18 02:59
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

He looks pretty awesome, though two things. Firstly, while it could just be me, I don't see the white in him mechanically, aside from being able to destroy enchantments with his emblem. Secondly, I don't know if red or white gets destruction like he has in his emblem. That seems more black to me.

Wed, 2013-12-18 03:10
WindyDelcarlo
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White has destruction, but not like that. I do feel like a 3-mana planeswalker with an emblem like that is too powerful though.

Wed, 2013-12-18 05:38
Anuttymous
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Imagine using that +1 Loyalty every turn. To me, that says "opponents can't have more than 3 lands (2 if you went first)". Playing a land every turn is easy, and if you designed the deck to work with low mana, you'll beat any opponent who hasn't. I probably wouldn't even ultimate. This would be unfun and unfair.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Wed, 2013-12-18 16:18
WindyDelcarlo
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To be fair, the +1 Loyalty does say nonbasic. However, I believe that as it is not a cost, you can activate it if you have no nonbasic lands with no ill effects.

Wed, 2013-12-18 16:25
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Yes, but it is not difficult to have only nonbasic lands in your deck, and it is also not difficult to put more than average so that you'll hit land drops every turn. Also, add Crucible of Worlds and you instantly get the "no more than 3 lands" effect. Admittedly, your opponent has to be playing nonbasic lands as well, but if you look at pretty much every metagame in any format at any point in time, you'll see a very large number of nonbasic lands (often nothing but them).

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Wed, 2013-12-18 17:11
WindyDelcarlo
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You don't even need nonbasic lands if I'm correct. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as the sacrificing of a nonbasic land is not a cost and is instead an effect of the first ability, if you don't have a nonbasic land, it does nothing but push you to the over-powerful -6 Loyalty.

With this conversation in mind, Koth should be part black and cost a lot more. The -6 Loyalty should be a bit higher too.

Wed, 2013-12-18 18:03
Sgt Failure
Sgt Failure's picture

Thanks for the criticism, I changed him up to this:


A card a day keeps the goyf away!

Wed, 2013-12-18 18:29
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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Once again, the -6 Loyalty is too powerful. Anyone using any colors in their decks will be completely locked out of the game once it goes off.

Wed, 2013-12-18 19:19
Sgt Failure
Sgt Failure's picture

What about bumping him to:

Koth, the Destroyer 2 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Planeswalker - Koth Mythic Rare
+1 Loyalty Koth, The Destroyer deals damage to each player equal to twice the number of nonbasic lands that player controls.
-2 Loyalty Destroy target land you don't control, and target land you control.
-8 Loyalty You get an embelm with "Land you don't control loses all land types and abilities. They gain 'Tap symbol: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.'"
4


A card a day keeps the goyf away!

Wed, 2013-12-18 20:11
WindyDelcarlo
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You'd have to playtest him against others. Does he ever go off? Does he feel too powerful? And also, when he does go off, is there any possible way to pull out of it or does the opponent lose automatically?