The Wonderful, All-Encompassing Card Clinic

continued...
Sun, 2013-04-07 20:58
master creator
master creator's picture

@Sakon: lol very funny the instants with this ability will always either be more powerfull or cheaper to cast as a sorcery over an instant

hey everone im back Big smile

Sun, 2013-04-07 21:37
Angelic_Bovines
Angelic_Bovines's picture

I've got a mechanic called Dire (Dire - As long as you have five or more [color] creature cards in your graveyard, [effect]). It's not necessarily the mechanic that needs tweaking, but perhaps the cards with the mechanic:

Dire Quickening Black mana symbol
Sorcery Red mana symbol
Dire - Cast Dire Quickening only if there are five or more black creature cards in your graveyard.
Return a creature card at random from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.

Sun, 2013-04-07 21:48
master creator
master creator's picture

Hmm seems balenced to me may i suggest however making it either 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol or even Black mana symbolBlack mana symbol
and allowing you to choose a black creature to return

hey everone im back Big smile

Sun, 2013-04-07 22:05
Decembra
Decembra's picture

@Angelic_Bovines: For that specific card, I think it depends on your reason why you want a low-cost revival in your set. As is, it looks like it can be balanced because it's specific and we assume it will be effective in the right deck. For Dire on the whole, it works well and seems like a solid pseudo-keyword.
Back to the specific card. My only nitpick is that graveyard removal such as Tormod's Crypt is already weakening the Dire keyword, as it would weaken Threshold. But in this particular situation, graveyard removal doesn't just weaken this card, it renders it useless. I wouldn't advise making more than one card per color require Dire be active for the casting of the card, otherwise you would need to be way too careful making graveyard removal, and probably for the wrong reason.

Sun, 2013-04-07 23:23
ThisisSakon
ThisisSakon's picture

Mechanic help? I might be in the wrong thread, lol...

Infuse (When enchanted <permanent type> leaves the battlefield, you may pay 2 mana symbol. If you do, attach this to another target <permanent type> it could enchant.)

So, something along the lines of

Name of Rage! Red mana symbol
Enchantment - aura Colorless mana symbol
Enchant Poobah
Enchanted creature gets +2/+1.
Infuse
RAGING!

I just don't know about balance...

Mon, 2013-04-08 01:30
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Dire Quickening - This seems too complex, when threshold exists. I also thinks it's quite strict. I don't know how often I get a number of creatures in my graveyard, never mind 5, and never mind of the same colour. This seems to only really help long games like Commander, and self-milling decks, such as Dredge.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Mon, 2013-04-08 02:12
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Back again with more probably broken and unfixable mechanics. A happy smile

Spoiler:
If an instant or sorcery spell would deal lethal damage or destroy this creature, (effect).

No name for this yet. Is there a shorter way to word this? I feel like there is...


Martyr X
(When ~ dies, put X +1/+1 counters on creatures you control that share a color with ~.)

I haven't tested it, but I feel this may be overpowered, especially at common. Perhaps add a cost?

Also, I've got two creatures that I'd like to know if the work, especially Lashath.

Lashath, Warden of Souls
Lashath, Warden of Souls 5 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Spirit Warrior Mythic Rare
First Strike
Other Spirit creatures you control get +1/+1 and have first strike.
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Lashath, Lord of Souls would die, instead return it to the battlefield under your control. It is a Spirit in addition to its other types.
5/5

I'm mostly wondering about balancing and his third ability. Does that even work?


Serasthk, Doom Incarnate
Serasthk, Doom Incarnate 13 mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Eldrazi Mythic Rare
When you cast Serasthk, destroy up to 5 lands target player controls.
Double Strike, Trample, Annihilator 3
When Serasthk is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner shuffles his or her graveyard into his or her library.
10/10

Made this for a practice card, and I think I might have made it a bit to powerful. 10/10 double strike on top of annihilator is probably way too much. Even without the annihilator he's essentially a win condition. Mostly wondering how to fix it without making it underwhelming. Probably remove double strike, amongst other things?

And, last but not least, here's a practice sorcery that I wouldn't mind getting feedback on.

Lifes Work
Life's Work X mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Sorcery Rare
Look at the top X cards of your library. You may cast any instant or sorcery spell from among them without paying its mana cost. If you do, Life’s Work deals X damage to target creature or player.

Again, made for practice, though I'm not set on the name. Doesn't seem to fit quite right.

Mon, 2013-04-08 05:34
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Keyword #1 - I think this is too specific. "When this does out of combat, [effect]." Seems like would be enough, really, and much easier to type and read.
Martyr X - Far too good. It's basically uber modular.
Lashath - Could easily cost 5 mana, you're basically just buffing a weak card.
Serasthk - If somebody had posted Emrakul, the Aeons Torn in this card clinic, before the Eldrazi had been shown, I'd have said it was just a silly design by someone that wants to 1-up the biggest guy in the game, who is beyond good enough, and that they should focus on designing some "adult" cards. Ergo, I have no worthwhile opinion for your Eldrazi.
Life's Work - I like it. I feel it might be too weak, so I'd suggest playtesting it to see whether you could cheapen it. Might even work at X mana symbolBlue mana symbolRed mana symbol.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Mon, 2013-04-08 08:40
Angelic_Bovines
Angelic_Bovines's picture

Threshold! I knew I forgot something! I'll change Dire Quickening over to that then, I guess.

Mon, 2013-04-08 17:56
Heads vs Tails
Best Mechanic of 2015
Heads vs Tails's picture

faerie planeswalker:
Beatrix Hexbloom 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Planeswalker - Beatrix M Mana for MTG Extra
Starting Loyalty: 3
+1 Loyalty: Until your next turn you may cast spells as though they have flash.
-3 Loyalty: Permanents target opponent controls don't untap during their next untap step.
-8 Loyalty: You gain an emblem with 'Islands you control gain 'Tap symbol: counter target spell unless its controller pays 1 mana symbol''.

Current Set:
Dabriohm: an equipment & threshold set. http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/8723

Mon, 2013-04-08 18:57
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Thanks Anuttymous. I appreciate the feedback.

Keyword #1: That is a fair point. This was mostly messing around with different ways to die, the theme my set seems to be revolving around.
Martyr: That was my thought, though I tried to restrict it with color, its definitely not enough. Do you think it would work with a temporary bonus? Not sure how that would work, maybe +1/+1 until the end of your next turn?

Lashath: Completely forgot about Dread Slaver. He originally had Double Strike as opposed to First Strike, but seeing as only two cards in black have it, and neither of them are too recent, I didn't think it really fit well color wise, and I honestly thought he'd be too good. Shows what I know. However, would there be a good way to make him work better, to the point where he'd be playable?

Serasthk: Fair enough. I mostly wanted to see how powerful I could make a card without making it unfun for the other player. Pretty sure I didn't succeed. :/

Life's Work: It turns out I mistyped the card. It was originally supposed to be any number of instants/sorceries, but I think I like this better, honestly. I also realized that it doesn't do anything with the extras. Oops. I'll definitely playtest it (after fixing), though I think your suggestion may be the way to go.

Thanks again. You've been great. A happy smile

Tue, 2013-04-09 00:32
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Martyr - You could do what I did in one of my old sets, which was "Sacrament N (When this creature dies, put an N/N colorless Spirit creature token onto the battlefield.)" Just an idea.

Lashath - You could always splash him into green and add a "must be blocked" clause. That, or just make it competitively strong.

Serasthk - Land destruction is never fun. Annihilator is one of the most degenerative abilities ever printed. The fact that yours kills in one attack (lethal damage on double strike) is its only saving grace - it'll at least be swift. So, you can't really make a card powerful and fun, leastwise not utilising the word Eldrazi. Rant.

Life's Work - Huh, I don't know why I didn't see the after-effect problem. You need to add "Put the rest back in any order" considering you looked at them.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Tue, 2013-04-09 01:13
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

That would actually work perfectly for the plane, with some tweaking. I'll have to get back to you on that.

Lashath: Not sure how much better he is, but here are a couple of tries.

Lashath, Warden of Souls
Attempt #1
Lashath, Warden of Souls 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Spirit Warrior Mythic Rare
Undying, flying, first strike
Other Spirit creatures you control get +1/+1 and have undying and first strike.
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Lashath, Warden of Souls this turn dies, return it to the battlefield under your control. It is a black Spirit in addition to its other colors and types.
5/5

Attempt #2
Lashath, Warden of Souls 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Spirit Warrior Mythic Rare
Undying, flying, first strike
Other Spirit creatures you control get +1/+1 and have undying and first strike.
Whenever Lashath, Lord of Souls deals combat damage to a player, return a creature card from a graveyard to the battlefield under your control. It is a black Spirit in addition to its other colors and types.
5/5

I definitely want to keep some form of reanimation on him, as that's sort of his defining characteristic. He's the lord of the dead, and the dead are his army. I don't really know the best way to do that though. :/ I'd also like to keep him mono-black for purposes of worldbuilding.

Serathsk: Ok. No more Eldrazi. Got it. Stick out your tongue

Life's Work: That's just what I did. Here's the current copy. (Still needs playtesting)

Lifes Work
Life's Work X mana symbolBlue mana symbolRed mana symbol
Sorcery Rare
Look at the top X cards of your library. You may cast any instant or sorcery spell from among them without paying its mana cost. If you do, Life’s Work deals X damage to target creature or player. Put any remaining cards on top of your library in any order.

Though, is it 'any' or 'the' remaining cards? Not really sure. I'm pretty sure it's 'any', because you wont necessarily have any remaining cards, but feel free to correct me.

Tue, 2013-04-09 01:25
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

I think the undying is too much on him. 5 mana 5/5 that reanimates (and buffs) anything it kills seems good.

"Put the rest back in any order." It seems okay.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Tue, 2013-04-09 01:45
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Undying just for him or returned creatures or both? I'm assuming this is with the Dread Slaver version.

Tue, 2013-04-09 04:46
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Undying on him and giving undying. Honestly, I think your original but at 5 mana is fine.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Tue, 2013-04-09 10:30
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Ok. Thanks again.

Tue, 2013-04-09 16:42
gyoza

Hi everyone - am in the middle of creating a cycle of Avatars for one of my sets - yeah I realize they look a lot like the RTR guildleaders but humor me. No names as of yet. Am hoping that they are splashy, fun, flavorful and balanced. Let me know if you have any comments... thanks! A happy smile

Spoiler:
~, the Torturer 1 mana symbol Blue mana symbol Blue mana symbol Black mana symbol Black mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Avatar Mythic Rare
When ~ enters the battlefield, tap all other creatures.
Whenever a creature becomes tapped, you may put a -1/-1 counter on it.
5/5

~, the Mirthful White mana symbol White mana symbol Blue mana symbol Blue mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Avatar Mythic Rare
Vigilance
Whenever an opponent casts a spell, if ~ is tapped, counter that spell unless its caster discards a card.
2/5

~, the Entropic 2 mana symbol Black mana symbol Black mana symbol Red mana symbol Red mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Avatar Mythic Rare
Red and black creatures you control have deathtouch.
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
5/3

~, Messenger of Hate 1 mana symbol Red mana symbol Red mana symbol Green mana symbol Green mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Avatar Mythic Rare
Creatures you control have haste, first strike, and attack each turn if able.
5/5

Tue, 2013-04-09 17:01
CanterburyEgg
Head Administrator
CanterburyEgg's picture

@Kyoril: Be very, very careful. A good turn-2 Ponder sets you up for a turn-3 Cruel Ultimatum, Sorin's Vengeance or even *shudder* Dragonstorm. Lord, can you imagine? Turn 4: "Ponder. Rearrange, draw a card. Tap 3: Life's Work for 1. Oh look, Dragonstorm! I'll go find 3 dragons, BRB."

Tue, 2013-04-09 21:36
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

That's a very good point. I still need to playtest though. I was thinking 3 versions:
X mana symbolBlue mana symbolRed mana symbol, X mana symbol1 mana symbolBlue mana symbolRed mana symbol, and X mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol.

I'll only be able to test constructed though.

EDIT: Probably not healthy for me, but I've come up with a new card type, and would like to know if it's actually usable. Is this the right place to post such a thing?

Tue, 2013-04-09 21:39
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

Sure, it is Winking smiley

Wed, 2013-04-10 18:48
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Alright then, here goes. I present to you... The Vessel!

Vessel
Example Render


Description:
A vessel is supposed to represent transportation, generally in the form of a ship. A vessel will have the type 'Vessel', and its subtype will be a creature type. They can have the supertype legendary.

Casting:
Vessels count as permanents, spells, and are cast at sorcery speed. All you need to do is pay the mana cost.

Boarding:
Almost all vessels will have some form of this ability, often in the form of "<cost>: Target <subtype> creature boards ~." (Though this will likely change to simple "Boarding <cost>", and target only creatures of the vessel's subtype that you control. It's actually already supposed to be you control, I just forgot to type that in.) Boarding is simply the process of moving a targeted creature onto the vessel. This causes the boarding creature to get summoning sickness, and can only be cast once per turn, as a sorcery. The creature is now a part of the vessel. The vessel is a subzone of the battlefield. As such, boarding does not trigger any 'leaves the battlefield effects'.

Capacity:
On the bottom right of the card is a single number. This is the vessel's capacity. The capacity is the maximum number of creatures a vessel can hold, and also acts similarly to a creature's toughness in some cases.

Combat and Spells:
When attacking or blocking, all of a vessel's available creatures must participate, and a vessel may not attack without at least one creature inside. (If a creature is tapped or has defender/can't block, then it is obviously not available to attack and/or block.) When dealt damage, the vessel must be dealt damage first, up to its capacity. Any remaining damage is then divided among the creatures within the vessel, how decided by the attacker, similar to trample. If dealt enough damage, creatures within a vessel die as normal.

Example
Example: My vessel with a capacity of 3 has both a 1/1 and a 2/2 creature in it. I block my opponent's 5/5 creature. The first 3 damage are dealt to the vessel, and my opponent decides to take out my 2/2 by dealing the other 2 damage to it. He/she could have killed my 1/1 by dealing both creatures 1 damage.

Should my vessel remain unblocked, or have trample, then damage would be assigned to players and creatures as normal, with each creature within the vessel dealing damage equal to its power, assuming it has no abilities to affect this, and any combat related abilities will trigger assuming their prerequisites are met.
A vessel may be targeted by spells similarly to a player. Any spells that target a player can target a vessel, and any spells that would affect creatures a player controls would target the vessel's occupants. Discarding, drawing, etc would have no affect.

Destroying:
Vessels can be destroyed if dealt enough damage. Whenever a source would deal damage to a vessel, if enough damage was dealt to meet or exceed the capacity, like in the above example,a damage counter is put in the vessel. When a vessel has accumulated enough damage counters to meet or exceed its capacity, it is destroyed.
Occupants of a destroyed vessel, if their toughness is greater than the number of damage counters on the vessel, will survive, meaning they are returned to the battlefield tapped, and stay there until further notice. If the creature's toughness is less than the number of counters, then the creature is destroyed with the vessel.

Occupants:
Occupants of a vessel act much the same as normal, though with some exceptions, the largest being leaving the vessel. Any creature on a vessel may, at sorcery speed, tap and pay its vessel's boarding cost to leave the vessel, returning to the battlefield. This does not trigger any 'enters the battlefield' effects, however, since the vessel is a subzone of the battlefield.
Secondly, if a vessel attacks or blocks and an occupant is able to do so, then it must attack or block with the rest of the vessel.
Thirdly, all activated and triggered abilities of creatures within vessels may still be activated or triggered.
Lastly, any occupants of vessels may be targeted by spells and abilities as normal, though they can only be a part of one vessel at a time.

Boarding Keyword
Boarding <cost> (This creature may board any Vessel you control as though it had haste and flash or deal combat damage to a target creature within a Vessel it is blocking or being blocked by for its boarding cost.)

I have also come up with a keyword for those creatures more skilled at boarding ships than others, though it definitely needs a name change and might not be worded correctly. I want you to be able to pay to either board a vessel you control anytime you want without summoning sickness or deal combat damage directly to a creature within another vessel.


Edit: Fixed to disallow ETB and LTB (?) effects, since a vessel is a part of the battlefield.

Wed, 2013-04-10 03:17
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Kyoril wrote:
Any creature on a vessel may, at sorcery speed, tap and pay its vessel's boarding cost to leave the vessel, returning to the battlefield.

Does this trigger 'enters the battlefield' effects?

Wed, 2013-04-10 03:22
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

It's not supposed to, as the Vessel is a zone within the battlefield. I thought I had put that in, though now that I look at it, I don't think I did. Though I suppose saying returns to the battlefield implies that it does. Either way, it was not intended to.

I'll add it in.

Wed, 2013-04-10 03:59
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Cool, cool! I didn't think that it would trigger ETB effects but only you would've been able to tell me. There are a few things about the rules of Vessels that seem too specified, such as all the ways to work around the Vessel or destroy the Vessel. If possible, I'd drop the 'target-able as a player' part out of the rules. It'd make more sense for a creature-related permanent to be targetted in a way as similar to a creature as it can be.
Here's something I would leave out of the rules if you do allow opponents to board the vessel - "(Though this will likely change to simple "Boarding <cost>", and target only creatures of the vessel's subtype.)" - don't specify which creatures can board the vessel, it'll make it easier to understand that your opponent's creature doesn't have to be a specific creature type to be able to board. Then again, I feel like you've given the Vessel yet another way to be shut down, which may not be necessary.
I'll leave commenting on the rest to people who know a little more than me. Stick out your tongue Hope my feedback helps!

Oh by the way... I absolutely love this!!!

Wed, 2013-04-10 09:58
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

gyoza
The Mirthful - If it's tapped? It has vigilance, and no Tap symbol ability. I.E. this is a 2/5 vigilance for White mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol, which is awful. Also, the countering of spells if blue, and the taxing is white, however neither white nor blue gets discard, normally. I'd suggest taxing via mana, or maybe life, or allowing yourself to draw cards. And I'd also suggest removing the "if is tapped".
The Entropic - "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, destroy target creature." That is not easily doable. That is basically what your card does. Change this up, somehow. Maybe Ashmouth Hound-like ability.

Kyoril
Vessels are very similar to what Positions were, when I did them. Card frame and all. Some of the main differences are that my positions didn't attack, or generally have anything to do with the combat step, and basically just acted like Auras that could enchant numerous creatures without falling off the battlefield, providing constant bonuses or activated bonuses. There also was no "can be targeted as players", no idea why that is relevant.
As for Vessels, I think you're adding a great deal of complexity to the combat step, which is already an immensely confusing area of Magic to begin with, complete with new rules, new tricks, new abilities, and damage counters?!? My opinion is to cut all of the combat part of Vessel, and just use them as multi-target Auras.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Wed, 2013-04-10 13:16
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

@Vessels: Or just the way Inanimate did for the Mini-set contest (second post from the bottom) as creatures with combat trigger..

Wed, 2013-04-10 18:47
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Alright, thanks both of you for your opinions. I agree with the targeting as a player thing, it just never occured that I could use anything else, honestly. I do definitely want them to be targetable, since a fireball will hurt a boat just as much as the creatures on it, so maybe creature targeting?

Decembra: I meant to add creature you control, though it seems that I didn't. A sad &#039;frowny&#039; Yet another thing it seems I forgot to type up. Thanks for the feedback. (and compliment! A happy smile )

Anuttymous: I had no idea you had made positions. I understand the multiple target aura thing, I suppose this was meant as more of a multiple target equipment. I'd like to keep the combat part if I can, though I see what you mean about it adding complexity. I'll do some more testing and see if I can simplify it some more. Thanks for the feedback. A happy smile

Daij_Djan: It's a cool idea, but I want some vessels to be noncombat related, to an extent.

Wed, 2013-04-10 23:05
tylorlilley
tylorlilley's picture

Hey, I'd love some feedback on this cycle of four color legendaries I did for a set I'm working on. wording fixes, power concerns, generally impressions or wow-ability of the legends, etc. would all be greatly appreciated.

Lionel
Lionel, Warrior Prince Black mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Human Warrior Red mana symbol
First Strike, Haste, Trample, Vigilance
When ~ attacks, you may pay Black mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbolWhite mana symbol. If you do, attacking creatures you control get +3/+3 until end of turn.
3/2

Lynn
Lynn, Perfect Daughter Green mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Human Advisor Red mana symbol
Vigilance, First Strike, Deathtouch
Green mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbol: Creatures can’t become tapped this turn. (Creatures can’t tap to attack and activated abilities containing a Tap symbol symbol can’t be activated. If a spell or ability would tap a creature, instead it doesn’t.)
1/1

Yavie
Yavie, Wayward Princess Red mana symbolGreen mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Human Rogue Red mana symbol
Hexproof
~ is unblockable.
Red mana symbolGreen mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbol: Untap all creatures you control. Those creatures get +1/+1 and are indestructible until end of turn.
2/4

Mikhail
Mikhail, Forgotten Son Blue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard Red mana symbol
Hexproof, Vigilance, Lifelink
Blue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol, Tap symbol: Copy target instant or sorcery spell you control twice.
1/1

Draziel
Draziel, Havoc Reveler White mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Human Shaman Red mana symbol
White mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbol, sacrifice a creature: Choose one or two — ~ gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn; or draw a card; or each opponent discards a card; or ~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
2/2

Thanks in advance, I put a lot of work and thought into these so I hope to hear what you guys think of them A happy smile

Thu, 2013-04-11 15:18
Icarael
Icarael's picture

Coven Torchbearer Green mana symbol
Creature- Human Druid Colorless mana symbol
Tap symbol: Add Green mana symbol to your mana pool.
1 mana symbol: Add Red mana symbol to your mana pool.
1/1

If someone designed this for Wizards, would they let it see print? Or would they just make it tap for red (see: Avacyn's Pilgrim)?

"Take the bridge, men! Victory! Victory is ou - Retreat! RETREAT!"

Thu, 2013-04-11 16:22
CanterburyEgg
Head Administrator
CanterburyEgg's picture

Skyshroud Elf thinks your card is fine.

Thu, 2013-04-11 20:55
Angelic_Bovines
Angelic_Bovines's picture

As it is, it is strictly better than Llanowar Elves outside of elf tribal. Maybe you could put a limit to how many times the second ability can be activated each turn?

Thu, 2013-04-11 21:00
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

Also Skyshroud Elf is very strong (and way stronger than Druid of the Anima) and costs two mana.. At least, I don't think it should be a common..

Thu, 2013-04-11 22:07
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

I think Wizards would just have it tap for the other colour. It shouldn't be able to change your mana to red without haste, nor should it be able to change all your mana to red. That just doesn't make sense for a little druid. I know it's been done before but I think that was a mistake. Wizards hasn't done anything like it in recent years, not on a small druid, anyway.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Thu, 2013-04-11 23:04
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Manaforge Cinder seems to be well-liked enough to base it off of. Though it's purely for mana fixing. Then there's Orochi Leafcaller, which is also purely for mana fixing, and is statistically preferred for the reason of "any color mana", even though it has a more specific activation cost.
So maybe for a common you could:

Coven Torchbearer Green mana symbol
Creature - Human Shaman Colorless mana symbol
Tap symbol: Add Green mana symbol to your mana pool.
Green mana symbol: Add Red mana symbol to your mana pool.
0/1

Adding "Activate this ability no more than three times each turn" like the Cinder seems too wordy here. Still not sure if this makes a difference?

Fri, 2013-04-12 02:05
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

So, I did some testing with the Vessels in constructed. Neither I nor my opponent really found too much difficulty with them, though there were some areas that were confusing.

Firstly, First Strike is much worse against them, since the first damage you deal needs to go through the vessel.
Secondly, when blocking a vessel that has at least two creatures in it with another vessel, it's a little awkward figuring out who deals damage to who. We eventually decided to have whoever controls the creature gets to decide how it deals its damage, though this is contrary to banding. I'm not really sure what to do about this.

Destroying the vessels was a lot less complicated than I thought it would be, though I did mix up the damage counters with +1/+1 markers a couple times. When an occupant survives the destruction, it just gets regenerated. (Realized that's what I had said before, just wordier, so clearing that up now.) We played with them being able to be targeted as if they were creatures, and that worked fine, though the question of creature aura's did come up because of that. I said no, but not quite sure how to handle that. I'd like any auras enchanting a vessel to be enchant vessel/permanent, not creature.

Anyway, more feedback is always welcome, and should you want to see the vessels used, they are below.

Vessels Used
Gruul Vessel 2 mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Vessel - Warrior
Boarding RG
Red Warrior creatures within Gruul Vessel get +1/+1 and have first strike.
Green Warrior creatures within Gruul Vessel get +1/+1 and have trample.
3

Boros Vessel 2 mana symbolRed mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Vessel - Soldier
Boarding RW
Red Soldier creatures within Boros Vessel get +1/+1 and have first strike.
White Soldier creatures within Boros Vessel get +1/+1 and have vigilance.
3

These are the two vessels used to playtest. They were pretty good, especially the first strike.

Fri, 2013-04-12 05:09
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Gruul Vessel 2 mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature - Vessel Red mana symbol
Vessel (Prevent all damage that would be dealt by this creature. Damage must be assigned to this creature first. If enough damage would be assigned to this to destroy it, instead regenerate it and put a -1/-1 counter on it.)
Red Warrior creatures you control get +1/+1 and have first strike.
Green Warrior creatures you control get +1/+1 and have trample.
0/3

Now, I'm aware I've basically butchered the whole idea, but this covers everything except the "boarding", which is literally banding. You could add banding to this and it'd be sorted. Is this not a potentially simpler route?

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Fri, 2013-04-12 20:03
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Yes, that is simpler, but it doesn't quite cover everything. Capacity for one, and I'd also like to keep the creatures in the vessels during main phases. While mainly for flavor, there were going to be things related to vessels during main phases, such as sorceries/enchatments/artifacts affecting creatures within vessels, and some avtivated abilities of both creatures and vessels were going to only be used while there were creatures within a vessel, but that you wouldn't necessarily want to activate during combat.

Thanks for the feedback as always. I really appreciate it.

Mon, 2013-04-15 01:35
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Duggery, the Smoke-Brained 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbol
Planeswalker - Duggery M Mana for MTG Extra
+1 Loyalty: Each opponent reveals a card at random from his or her hand, then loses life equal to that card’s converted mana cost.
-3 Loyalty: Destroy each creature and/or planeswalker that was dealt damage this turn.
-6 Loyalty: Each player discards three cards or sacrifices three creatures. If a player can’t do either, that player loses 10 life.
{4}

I can't decide whether the ultimate should be -6 or -7. Given what it does, I feel like it's okay to have it "more readily available" than other planeswalkers, but I could be wrong.

Mon, 2013-04-15 02:06
Kyoril
Kyoril's picture

Removing loyalty counters doesn't count as being dealt damage, right? His -3 would pop him if so.

Mon, 2013-04-15 02:10
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

Decembra: Both of those options are still really nasty. I think -7 is the fairest option.

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Mon, 2013-04-15 03:30
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Thanks Inanimate! I think that's about right, too. Just to keep it as balanced as possible.
@Kyoril: Pretty sure it wont count as damage.

Mon, 2013-04-15 11:56
doc_T

@Decembra: To me, the +1 ability feels very strong, though it's very situational, it can be devastating. Imagine your opponent reveals a card with cmc 3+, then the ability is very strong for a +1 Loyalty effect. (Not to think of a reveal Darksteel Colossus).

What do you think?

By the way, here are some cards that use a new mechanic (I found it in the mechanic collection, thanks for that), what do you think of it. Is it too hard to achieve/is it too situational? Are the effects too strong/weak? I plan to put the mechanic only on Blue mana symbol or higher rarity cards.

Spoiler:
Channeled Flame 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Sorcery Blue mana symbol
Add Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol to your mana pool.
Spellcharge – If you have cast two or more other spells this turn, add Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol to your mana pool instead.

Spoiler:
Version 1
Caller of Hooves Green mana symbol
Creature – Elf Shaman M Mana for MTG Extra
Spellcharge – When Caller of Hooves enters the battlefield, if you have cast two or more other spells this turn, creatures you control get +3/+3 and Trample until end of turn.
1/1

Notes: With this guy, I'm totally not sure, if I like him at all, or if the design is just a big fail (too situationl, a useless one drop at mythic for 1 mana...)

Version 2:
Caller of Hooves Green mana symbol
Creature – Elf Shaman M Mana for MTG Extra
When Caller of Hooves enters the battlefield, creature you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.
Spellcharge – When Caller of Hooves enters the battlefield, if you have cast two or more other spells this turn, creatures you control get +3/+3 and Trample until end of turn instead.
1/1

Notes: Strictly better as I just added an unconditional +1/+1. This version would get rid of the uselesness if you draw it later in the game.


Spoiler:
Glimpse of Eternity 4 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Sorcery M Mana for MTG Extra
Take an extra turn after this one.
Spellcharge – If you have cast two or more other spells this turn, take two extra turns instead.

Notes: Do you think this is too cheap? As it costs only 1 more than Time Warp, but has a lot more potential. (I could also see this card at cmc 7).

Mon, 2013-04-15 15:21
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

Yeah, I've fiddled with that mechanic too! It's currently in one of my set files, actually. I called it 'Tempest'.

Caller of Hooves is actually safe as a rare. It doesn't feel like Mythic material.

Glimpse of Eternity is pretty good as a mythic. It's difficult to chain two spells before a 6CMC spell, so I think you're safe.

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Mon, 2013-04-15 17:08
Vulgard
Vulgard's picture

I have made a new card and i don't know is it balanced. How do you think?

Spoiler:
Fire Pillar 1RR
Fire Pillar deals 2 damage to target creature. Destroy all Equipment attached to it.
Splice onto Arcane RR

Mon, 2013-04-15 17:16
doc_T

@Inanimate: Oh, nice to hear A happy smile How is the exact wording with your version of the mechanic?

@Vulgard: Is your card an instant or a sorcery? And I guess your card is an instant and either Colorless mana symbol or Blue mana symbol? Balancewise I think the card is totally fine (as an instant as well as an sorcery)

Mon, 2013-04-15 17:25
Vulgard
Vulgard's picture

Lol, I forgot to add. Yeah, it's an Uncommon and it's a Sorcery-Arcane.

Mon, 2013-04-15 21:34
master creator
master creator's picture

Well I have a few new mechanics to try to balance for my set so here they are

White mana symbolGreen mana symbol ablility is Save X(when this creature ETB target creature gets +0/+X until end of turn)

I've already mentioned rush on this tread before and wording and balance are fine just need a better name

Blue mana symbol gets Escape( when this creature becomes blocked you may return it to your hand)

Now all of these abilities will be at Blue mana symbol and above with the eception of 1 or 2 Colorless mana symbol's

For example
Close Call Blue mana symbol
Instant Colorless mana symbol
Target creature you control gains Escape until end of turn

And an epic M Mana for MTG Extra

Saving Grace 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Enchantment M Mana for MTG Extra
Creature spells you cast have Flash and Save 2

Another common idea

Delayed Healer 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Creature-Human Cleric Colorless mana symbol
Save 1
1/1

hey everone im back Big smile

Mon, 2013-04-15 22:37
Decembra
Decembra's picture

@Doc_T: I know, hitting an opponent for 3+ damage looks all upside, but the chance of hitting the opponent for 0, sometimes repeatedly, is the cost. Singe-Mind Ogre has a once-off of this ability at common, so I figure Wizards just decided that the odds are what the odds are. Playing against big beefy artifacts like Blightsteel Colossus will make Duggery happy, but what about Elves? They drop their hand then my +1 does nothing. You could say that hitting a Blighsteel in their hand twice is game over, but you could also say that giving them two turns to cast that Blightsteel is game over.

EDIT: Darksteel Colossus too.

Mon, 2013-04-15 23:40
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Decembra
Duggery, the Smoke-Brained - Seems alright, although I think that +1 might be too strong, as on average it would be 2/3 life loss, at least. It's not common that many lands are in hand around turns 3/4. I think "then discards it if it's a nonland card."

doc_T
Channeled Flame - Is making Storm decks better really a good idea? Seething Song just got banned, and this one is about fifteen times better in those decks.
Caller of the Hooves - Version 2 is too good, I think, version 1 is fine. I think you should give it unconditional haste, though, seeing as it's in green and would help this guy.
Glimpse of Eternity - Perfectly fine, I'd say.
Spellcharge - I think it's a fine mechanic and quite balanced, you just need to be wary of Storm. I also think "If two or more spells have been cast this turn..." such that instants can reap off your opponents. Generally it won't make much of a difference, except instants are better.

Vulgard
Fire Pillar - I'd say this looks fine, but it should be an instant, definitely, and I don't think it needs to be uncommon, unless it's based in an Equipment-heavy (very heavy) set.

master creator of all
Close Call - I'd rather just have Unsummon. It can save my creature at any point, and can also hit my opponent's creatures. This should have the plain "Draw a card" tacked on, to make it worthwhile.
Saving Grace - Could perhaps cost a bit less. I think this would be so much better as a creature with flash and save itself.
Delayed Healer - Should have flash, otherwise it's just a bad two drop most the time.
Save - I feel this is quite limited. It only really works in white, and is not even necessarily saving a creature.
Escape - I think you might be better off just keywording Gustcloak. Most of the time, it's gonna do the same thing, but you have to pay for it instead.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help