The Wonderful, All-Encompassing Card Clinic

continued...
Thu, 2013-03-07 00:47
Decembra
Decembra's picture

@Dragonslayer: I think there's a part of it that might need changing immediately - "until you reveal a creature card". You can really stack up your deck like this if you don't play many creatures. For example, 4 x Core creature + 1 x Lizard Tracker in a deck = "1 mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol: Search your library for your core creature." I'm not saying any decks would actually want that and make them overpowered, but if that happens, you wouldn't want to see it happen at common rarity.

Thu, 2013-03-07 00:53
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

I think the worst you get from Track would be Squadron Hawk, so you just have to be careful not to have yours too strong. Of course, decks that want only four copies of a creature wouldn't be using others, so if you design the cards right, no problems should occur.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Sat, 2013-03-09 23:16
ggyppt

I've just started making Magic cards, so I need help with basically everything, wording, balancing, flavoring, spelling, art and what not. Any help wold be appreciated.

Dominance 2 mana symbol Black mana symbol
Enchantment - Aura
Enchanted Creature Cannot be blocked by a creature with a lower converted mana cost

Remnants of the Eldrazi 15 mana symbol
Enchantment
All creatures enchanted player controls gain Annihilator X where X is the number of cards in your hand

Bleak Future 2 mana symbol Black mana symbol Black mana symbol
All players skip their draw phases.
Black mana symbol X mana symbol Tap symbol : discard bleak future and draw X cards

Poison Eater 2 mana symbol Black mana symbol Green mana symbol
Legendary Creature Sewer Monster (MR)
During your upkeep phase, put X +1/+1 counters on this creature, X equaling the number of poison counters you have
2/2

Again, any help is much appreciated.

Mon, 2013-03-11 00:35
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Dominance needs to have "Enchant creature" on an extra line. I don't know if it fits in black, but I can see the flavour.

Remnants of the Eldrazi needs "- Aura" and "Enchant player", although I'd suggest just having it as "you" instead of "enchanted player". The effect is interesting. I don't know what your intended rarity is, but I would assume mythic. It could perhaps cost a little less, but it'd be tough to say.

Bleak Future needs a card type (presumably Enchantment), and is horrendously good, as it stops your opponents drawing, whilst giving you a way to get tonnes of cards if you need them. You need to completely change this.

Poison Eater is terribly weak. Mycosynth Fiend is an uncommon and already better. You need to just improve this in as many ways as you can think.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Mon, 2013-03-11 00:53
ggyppt

Thanks for the suggestions, So, with the adjustments you pointed out, I have redone the cards

Dominance: 2 mana symbol Black mana symbol (U)
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
Enchanted Creature Cannot be blocked by a creature with a lower converted mana cost

Remnants of the Eldrazi 12 mana symbol (MR)
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Player
All creatures you controls gain Annihilator X where X is the number of cards in your hand

Bleak Future 4 mana symbol Black mana symbol Black mana symbol
Enchantment (R)
All players skip their draw phases.
Tap symbol discard bleak future

Poison Eater 1 mana symbol Black mana symbol Green mana symbol
Legendary Creature Sewer Monster (MR)
During your upkeep phase, put X +1/+1 counters on this creature, X equaling the number of poison counters you have
2/2

(quick note with poison eater, it's effect happens every turn, so if you have 1 poison counter, each turn, you add a +1/+1 counter, but they aren't taken away)

And I have a new card that needs to be looked at
Revolt of the Weak 4 mana symbol Red mana symbol (R)
Sorcery
All creatures target opponent controls except target opponents strongest creature attack target opponents strongest creature.

Mon, 2013-03-11 01:06
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Remnants of the Eldrazi - Either "Aura" and "Enchant player" and "enchanted player" or "you" without "Aura" and without "Enchant player". One way allows you to give the effect to another player, I don't know if that's what you intended.

Bleak Future - Making other people skip draw phases is unfun. Try making it proactive instead, for example something like Seizan, Perverter of Truth.

Poison Eater - This is still bad. It requires you to be playing against someone who uses infect, otherwise it's a 2/2 for three mana, which is awful. Any effect that requires your opponent to have something in particular is uncommon, because it's impossible to control and therefore no better than a sideboard card. In order for it to be worth mythic, it needs to be something the player can actually make work themselves, and also needs to be explosive when they make it work.

Revolt of the Weak - Try wording it something along the lines of Alpha Brawl. And maybe up the cost to 6 or 7 mana.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Mon, 2013-03-11 01:14
ggyppt

Thanks again for the help.

Bleak Future - everyone skips their draw phase, even you.

I can see you're point with Poison Eater, I'm going to lower it down to and Uncommon or Common and give it something else ability wise, don't know what yet.

Thanks for the wording help on the other two, I'll need to think about what I want Remnants of the Eldrazi to do.

I'll definitly look at upping the cost of Revolt of the Weak and rewording it.

Tue, 2013-03-12 01:42
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

I'm aware everybody does, which makes it worse - the game may just not progress. You can easily abuse it with something as simple as Jayemdae Tome. It's a very discouraging and disheartening card. I would strongly suggest making it proactive, or giving it a proactive ability (for everyone), similar to how Omen Machine cancels out the drawback.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Tue, 2013-03-12 02:46
ggyppt

Here's a random idea of what to do with Bleak Future, and please tell me if I'm completely off base with this.

Bleak Future 2 mana symbol Black mana symbol Black mana symbol
Enchantment
This Enchantment is always under the control of the players whoes turn it is.
All players skip their draw phase.
At the start of each players turn put a counter on this.
Tap symbol Player who currently controls this card draws X cards, X is the number of counters on it. Discard Bleak Future.

And a new card idea
Harvesting Chamber (R)
Land
This enters the field tapped
Tap symbol Sacrifice a creature: add sacrificed creatures converted mana cost to your mana pool

Tue, 2013-03-12 04:45
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

Containment Sphere 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Enchantment Uncommon
Flash
When Containment Sphere enters the battlefield, exile target spell. (It doesn't resolve.)
When Containment Sphere leaves the battlefield, the exiled card's owner may cast that card from exile.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Tue, 2013-03-12 05:04
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Bleak Future - Your opponent would use the ability as soon as you give it to them, to draw a card and remove the enchantment. I think get rid of the "Sacrifice CARDNAME" clause, and add "and loses X life" as it'll fit in black perfectly.

Harvesting Chamber - Sacrificing creatures is hefty, I think this could come in untapped.

Containment Sphere - Doesn't need the "from exile" clause, but needs "without paying its mana cost". Also, I'd suggest having it counter then exile ala Dissipate otherwise it can hit uncounterable spells, which it shouldn't at uncommon.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Tue, 2013-03-12 13:11
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

Of course. How could I forget the "without paying" part? Weird smile

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Wed, 2013-03-13 23:14
Sewn-Eye
Sewn-Eye's picture

Zergling Pair 1 mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Sorcery Blue mana symbol
Put two 1/1 green Zerg creature tokens onto the battlefield. They have haste. If you cast this spell during your declare attackers step, they enter the battlefield tapped and attacking.
Overwhelm Red mana symbolGreen mana symbol (You may cast this card for its overwhelm cost during your declare attackers step if you control three or more attacking creatures.)

Engulfing Charge 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Instant Blue mana symbol
Engulfing Charge deals damage to target creature or player equal to the number of attacking creatures you control.
Overwhelm 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol (You may cast this card for its overwhelm cost during your declare attackers step if you control three or more attacking creatures.)

Hunter Killer 3 mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Zerg Serpent Blue mana symbol
When Hunter Killer enters the battlefield, you may have it fight target creature an opponent controls.
Overwhelm 2 mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol (You may cast this card for its overwhelm cost during your declare attackers step if you control three or more attacking creatures. If you do, this enters the battlefield tapped and attacking.)
4/4

So, yeah, this is probably the third-ish time I've tried tinkering with my overwhelm keyword. (Definitely has nothing to do with Heart of the Swarm's release yesterday.)
I'm curious about the wording of the keyword and the power of the cards.

(The 3 colorless mana symbol is bugged for some reason.)

"Too wary to charge, too prudent to serve. Not anymore."
—Sedris, the Traitor King

Thu, 2013-03-14 03:36
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Power levels seem decent. Hunter Killer is a bomb in limited, but that's fine, and I think it could be dropped to three mana on overwhelm.
I'm not sure about having it enter tapped and attacking, as it causes difference in the reminder text, that I originally didn't even see. If it hadn't been for Zergling Pair, I might not have even looked to find out. I don't really know if there's anything can be done to make it easier.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Mon, 2013-03-18 15:58
Ely Buendia
Ely Buendia's picture

Fiametta, Princess of Ignacia 1 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Planeswalker - Fiametta M Mana for MTG Extra
+1 Loyalty: Discard a card at random, then draw a card.
0 mana symbol: Put a 2/2 red Elemental creature token with haste onto the battlefield.
-6 Loyalty: Roll a six-sided die. Fiametta, Princess of Ignacia deals 6 damage multiplied by X to each opponent and each creature he or she controls, where X is the result of the die roll.
Loyalty: 3

[Note: This card is based on Flame Princess from Adventure Time.]

Mon, 2013-03-18 20:09
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

I think the 0 needs to be a -1 or -2, seeing as she's cheaper than Garruk Relentless yet produces better (hasted) tokens. The ultimate needs to cost more, maybe -8 or -9, as it generally has a 2/3 chance of death. Otherwise, seems okay.

Anuttymous the Gathering
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Tue, 2013-03-19 12:05
Umbral Reaver
Umbral Reaver's picture

I'm not actually sure how this would be formatted in text form. I have used the leveler template, though I don't know how to remove the 'level' text. This is an attempt at a mechanic that is easily read and allows a creature (or perhaps any permanent) to take on different forms depending on whose turn it is.

Duality

Tue, 2013-03-19 21:12
Angelic_Bovines
Angelic_Bovines's picture

I have an incredibly insane idea for a card.

Here it is.

Warp and Weft 5 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Sorcery M Mana for MTG Extra
Starting with you, each player names a card, then either pays half of his or her life, rounded up or shuffles his or her library, then exiles the top card. If a player exiles the card he or she named, he or she wins the game. If no player does, each player that didn't pay life loses 1 life, then repeats this process until no players do.

First off, I'd like to know if the effect's understandable (probably not easy to read, but understandable). And if it is balanced or not, of course.

Tue, 2013-03-19 21:16
BolasDragon
BolasDragon's picture

I understand it, but you would need some rewording to let people know that it's a choice. I had to read it a couple times before I realized you didn't do all of them in order.

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
"The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog." Mark Twain

Wed, 2013-03-20 03:30
gostgun

ok new here but i had an idea for a card geared more towards token decks

Strength in Numbers 3 mana symbolWhite/black mana symbolBlue/black mana symbolWhite/blue mana symbol

instant (R)
Choose one -- Tap any number of creature cards you control, deal 2 damage to target creature for each creature tapped this way; or all creatures you control gain Exalted until end of turn

Wed, 2013-03-20 04:08
Decembra
Decembra's picture

@Angelic_Bovines: There's easier wording, for sure, but before that you may want to consider what you've written.

"Either pay half your life or name a card and exile the top card of your library for a chance to win the game. If you choose to try your hand at winning the game but don't name the right card, you'll lose a shocking 1 life and then you'll most likely try again. At this point you'll most likely name Island and win, but if you don't, don't worry, you just put your opponent on dangerously low life. We now leave you with a word from our sponsor, Lightning Bolt."

When you read it like that, do you get the feeling that it's not really a Blue mana symbol effect? That whoever loses is going to hate how it happened (including yourself)?
I suggest dropping "pay half life", adding "names a nonland card" and adding "If only one player exiles a card he or she named, that player wins the game."
Just to take the immediate out of color feel away. Oops, well, I gotta run. Hope this helps for version 2!

Wed, 2013-03-20 05:20
CerberusX
CerberusX's picture

@gostgun: The manacost is confusing, not only because of the strange mix of hybrids, but also because there isn't any Red mana symbol and the first half is definitely a red effect. Black only usually does direct damage when coupled with life steal like Vicious Hunger. Blue and black don't do a lot of token generation either. Exalted does fit, but for a token deck this is still way underpowered, especially at that mana cost. CMC 6 is WAY too high. you could easily get away with CMC 4 even at uncommon. The wording is slightly off too, not much but it should look like: "Choose one -- Tap any number of creatures you control, then deal 2 damage to target creature for each creature tapped this way; or creatures you control gain Exalted until end of turn." And.. ahem.. there is already a card by that name, Strength in Numbers.

I understand the concepts, and they're not bad, you just need a little bit of cleanup.

Wed, 2013-03-20 11:30
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Umbral Reaver - Duality seems fine, however I can see what you mean with the LEVEL not being wanted, and it'd probably be nice if you could stretch those boxes so ATTACK and DEFENSE were more readable. There's probably a way, but I'm afraid I couldn't help.

Angelic_Bovines - 4x Warp and Weft + 56x Island. I'd do this. Also, "until no player pays life." It's just clearer. It seems ridiculously hit and miss. I would always just name a card if the person who played it did, and chances are they've paid 8 mana for nothing. If they pay life, I name a card again, because I've halved their life and gotten a small chance at just winning, for their 8 mana. I don't see how this ever works your way.

gostgun - The first half of Strength in Numbers is existent in red, and the second half is rather random. This looks like two unconnected cards stapled together, which an awkward-looking mana cost.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
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Wed, 2013-03-20 21:20
Angelic_Bovines
Angelic_Bovines's picture

Hmm.... I can't really think of any way to fix Warp and Weft without removing the life payment. I guess it's back to the blue mythic drawing board.

Sat, 2013-03-23 02:26
tylorlilley
tylorlilley's picture

So... I've been playing with the swap mechanic from Future Sight, seen on only one card. For those that don't remember, it looked like this:

Archanum Wings 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Enchantment - Aura Blue mana symbol
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has flying.
Aura swap 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol (2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol Exchange this Aura with an Aura card in your hand.)

What I want to know is how the word "exchange" works when it comes to other permanent types. For example, the following card:

Town Square
Land
T: Add 1 mana symbol to your mana pool.
Land Swap 1 mana symbol

Am I correct in that you can tap this land for a mana and proceed to use its land swap ability to put, say, an Island from your hand into play? Is the Island tapped because it was exchanged with the tapped town square, or can I then tap it for Blue mana symbol?

What about creatures? Like the following:

Swapping Goblin Red mana symbol
Creature - Goblin 1/1 Blue mana symbol
Goblin swap 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol

Say Swapping Goblin attacks and is blocked by a Runeclaw Bear. I use Goblin swap to put a Goblin King onto the battlefield. Because they exchanged, is that Goblin King tapped? Is it attacking? Is it blocked by the Runeclaw Bear? Does it or the Swapping Goblin die?

Just a brief explanation of what in magic terms "exchange" constitutes would do wonders.
Thanks.

Sat, 2013-03-23 07:21
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

Exchange simply means to replace one card with the other. All counters from the "first" permanent will be on the "new" one, auras attached to as well, all board states will be the same.

So your Island will enter the battlefield tapped, Goblin King tapped, attacking and blocked by Runeclaw Bear as well.

Hope this helps! Winking smiley

Sat, 2013-03-23 07:46
CerberusX
CerberusX's picture

Exchange in this case is very simple, it means that you must take a similar permanent from your hand and put it into play in the place of the original permanent. But that does NOT mean in the state of the replaced permanent. These are two very different ideas. Auras are a particular subset of enchantments that enchant creatures, so therefore it was assured that the new aura could come in enchanting the same creature as the previous one (usually). But the exchanged or 'swapped' card is not the old one, and the old state does not apply, IE tapped vs. untapped.

Unless you specify otherwise in an addendum to the 'Swap' mechanic, in your first scenario the island would come into play untapped and be immediately available to use (and I still think the card is fair as is).

In the second scenario, again unless otherwise specified, neither Swapping Goblin nor the exchanged goblin would deal or receive combat damage. Think of it like you are using a Boomerang on the Swapping Goblin, and playing a Flash creature. For the new goblin to deal damage, you would have to activate the swap in your response to your opponent's declaration of attackers, and then declare a block with the new gobbo.

I'm too lazy to go look up the rulings and post them at the moment, but I believe this is the way the mechanic would work, and I very very much like the idea. Can't wait to see more!

Edit: Uh oh... Daij and I disagree lol.. maybe I WILl go look up the rulings now hehe...

Edit2:

MagicCompRules wrote:
701.8e If a card in one zone is exchanged with a card in a different zone, and either of them is
attached to an object, that card stops being attached to that object and the other card becomes
attached to that object.

Thats literally all that it says about exchanging permanents, other than that all of the targets must be there at resolution, and stuff about life exchanging intricacies. I would tend to think I'm right and the state (tapped vs untapped) would NOT remain tied to it.

Sat, 2013-03-23 16:20
tylorlilley
tylorlilley's picture

The more I think about it the more I think CerberusX is correct. For example, if swap worked the way that Daij_Djan said, why would wizards have printed this:

Ninjutsu 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol (1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol, Return an unblocked attacker you control to hand: Put this card onto the battlefield from your hand tapped and attacking.)

and not this:

Ninjutsu 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol (1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol, Exchange an unblocked attacker you control with this card. Ninjutsu only from your hand.)

Gentlemen, your counterarguments? Stick out your tongue

Also, I feel like part of the problem for me is that the use of the word swap makes it feel like they should just switch places and have all of the state of the other one, but the magic rules probably don't specify that. Also, as a side note, if swap doesn't also exchange their states like tapped or attacking, how might one word Swapping goblin so that it DOES mke the swapped creature gain its board state? Would something like this work:

Swapping Goblin Red mana symbol
Creature - Goblin 1/1 Blue mana symbol
Goblin swap 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol
When ~ swaps with a creature, the swapped creature enters the battlefield in the same state as ~.

Something tells me that wording doesn't exist in magic.

Sat, 2013-03-23 19:44
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

Seriously, I really shouldn't post without thinking.. CerberusX is indeed partly right - my above post was pretty much nonsense. While I was working as part of team ninja for the duel deck contest (and we invented taijutsu), we pretty much asked ourselves the same question. The answer we finally arrived at is quite simple: There is no answer to your question. There is neither a mechanic nor a specific card that would require a complete ruling so far in the (official) game, so comp. rule 701.8e (the one CerberusX nicely looked up) is the only thing we actually really know so far. So if you make a mechanic working in that design space (like we did for the contest), you pretty much have to think about expanding the comp. rules anyway..

Sun, 2013-03-24 03:33
tylorlilley
tylorlilley's picture

Hmm, I'm not sure I really knew what can of worms I was opening here, haha. I thought for sure there was a definite answer and I just didn't know it.

Do you or someone else have any ideas on how expanding the comp. rules to deal with this issue? What would that even look like? I understand the rules of the game pretty well, but I'm not sure I'm at a level to be expanding the comp. rules just yet. Stick out your tongue

Sun, 2013-03-24 06:49
CerberusX
CerberusX's picture

Well I wouldn't use the clause about 'state'. That is really a very advanced concept and you want to make your mechanics easy to understand, and no it doesn't appear on any cards to date. Additionally, I don't think you need to have the swapped card enter in the same state. You are already charging a hefty amount of mana for the swap according to your previews, so I'd think about not bothering with that.

As far as the comp rules: You can't mess with them. Not you shouldn't, you can't. They're controlled by Wizards. You can have your mechanic do whatever you like as long as you state what that is in text or reminder text, but the comps won't change, so don't worry too much about that heh. This litte fact means that all we have to worry about is wordy reminder text. So decide what you need in the mechanic and we'll go from there.

Sun, 2013-03-24 11:56
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

I partly disagree with you here.. Don't get me wrong, I'm always deeply against changing comp. rules to make mechanics (or even single cards!) work, however he wants to expand them in directions simply not covered so far. To be very clear, we always do this here by designing new mechanics already (specific mechanics are part of comp. rules), so I don't get why this should be such a problem here. Sure, the expension would only be "correct/true" for his set - but that is again always the case anyway..

About how to word it: I could think of that (or look up if we wrote something down for the duel deck contest - afraid we didn't, though) till tomorrow - I don't think it would be quite complicated.. Thing is, if you are willing to do so, how should it be working? The way I said above or different?

Sun, 2013-03-24 16:07
tylorlilley
tylorlilley's picture

I have thought about it a lot and I think that I'd like the swap to work as stated with the Goblin; the swapped in permanent retains the tapped/untapped and attacking/blocking state of the card with swap. As well as its blockers and the creatures its blocking... are there any other "states" in magic that could/should be kept? At the very least, this is how I think it should work.

Perhaps I should just design a new mechanic to do this though and drop the 'exchange' part along with swap...

Sun, 2013-03-24 22:40
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

I think there are too many "states" in Magic, such that swapping in the way you want to would be ill-advised. It's not too much to imagine swapping a morphed creature into a face-down card that nobody knows is even what it should be. Does being a target count as a state, and if so, what many, many complications can come of that?

I would suggest just having it as it is, and dealing with the "problem" of being able to save creatures from death and do annoying combat tricks, among other things, simply by costing things higher, or giving them drawbacks. As Mr Rosewater himself says (or so I'm told, notoriously often) "Restriction breeds creativity." You are being restricted. Create.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Sun, 2013-03-24 23:45
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

Permanents officially posess four board states - no more, no less (tapped/untapped, transformed/not, flipped/not, face-down/not). To be fair, when I think of "exchanging" I don't think of keeping all four board states, only (un)tapped seems like it should be kept like this..

EDIT: Phased in/out is the missing one - thanks Tarvoc Winking smiley

Sun, 2013-03-24 23:30
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Why only tapped/untapped? That doesn't solve any of the combat tricks, it just stops your Bonded Fetch being used when you swap it in. Any added complexity should be in the cards themselves, and not in the mechanics or the rules. It's easier to chop single cards, or even whole bunches of them, than have to rethink the entire thing.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Sun, 2013-03-24 23:30
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

Daij_Djan wrote:
Permanents officially posess four board states - no more, no less (tapped/untapped, transformed/not, flipped/not, face-down/not).

What about phased in / phased out?

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Sun, 2013-03-24 23:44
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

@Anuttymous: I personly prefer keeping tapped/untapped for flavor purpurses and similar - I really simply want to exchange the card / grant it a new name and keep everything else the same.. Only because that card may have been face down the new one shouldn't be the same - that may be me, though.

@Tarvoc: Sorry, my bad. I remembered looking up that exact thing in the comp. rules just a month ago and therefore remembered four states - which is actually still correct. Transformed or not was wrong, though..

Comp. Rule 110.6. wrote:
A permanent’s status is its physical state. There are four status categories, each of which has two
possible values: tapped/untapped, flipped/unflipped, face up/face down, and phased in/phased out.
Each permanent always has one of these values for each of these categories.

Being transformed or not is simply a question of being face down or not:

Comp. Rules 701.25b wrote:
To transform a permanent, turn it over so that its other face is up.

Mon, 2013-03-25 00:10
BolasDragon
BolasDragon's picture

Transformed permanents are not considered face down though.

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
"The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog." Mark Twain

Mon, 2013-03-25 00:33
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

Hmm, after re-reading seems like you're right. Interesting, so being transformed really simply is totally interesting concerning permanent status - I wouldn't have expected that..

Mon, 2013-03-25 04:53
BolasDragon
BolasDragon's picture

They're always face up.

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
"The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog." Mark Twain

Tue, 2013-03-26 03:18
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Hey peeps,
So I'm wondering how this looks as a Cipher-esque mechanic?

Runaway Flames 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Instant Rare
Runaway Flames deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Spread (Until end of turn, whenever a card is moved from any one zone to another, that card’s owner casts a copy of this card. He or she may choose new targets for the copy.)
“What? You thought fire was a plaything?”
— Unknown firemage

Tue, 2013-03-26 03:56
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

That's definitely too tricky. Firstly, Demonic Tutor triggers it, without me ever having to reveal it. So I can just pretend I've searched for it. Secondly, the copies created will still actually hit the graveyard, same as a tokens, and consequently infinitely trigger themselves moving to another zone (I contest this - it may not trigger itself for other reasons). Thirdly, this triggers for every card that moves zones, meaning Archive Trap or Feldon's Cane are super-Storm cards. Fourthly, ... Etc.

Basically, I think you need to cut the possibilities to an absolute minimum, such as when a creature dies, or when a card is exiled.

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Tue, 2013-03-26 05:04
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

Anuttymous: Copies aren't cards, so it won't trigger itself.

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Tue, 2013-03-26 05:50
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Archive Trap would give your opponent 13 copies to cast, haha. If you have Witchbane Orb out, then that changes things. You make a definite point with Feldon's Cane and the like, though. Maybe strictly the battlefield? "whenever a permanent enters the battlefield, that permanent's controller casts a copy of this card. etc."
Or alternatively, use the original trigger but instead of "that card's owner" - we give the copy to a random player? Maybe make it 1 damage to target creature or player too?

Tue, 2013-03-26 16:27
Inanimate
Inanimate's picture

There's no way to balance this mechanic. It's simply impossible, given the sheer abundance of cards that can move from one zone to another.

I'd recommend simply making it "whenever you cast a spell from your hand" - still pseudo-Storm, still powerful, but not as easy to break.

Also known as Inanimate at Goblin Artisans, TurboJustice at MTGS, and TyrRev at /r/custommagic

Tue, 2013-03-26 20:00
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Okay, well I've thought of something else instead, using the rule text for Cipher:

- Spread appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities, one that functions while the spell is on the stack and one that functions while the card with spread is in the exile zone. "Spread" means "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card covering a creature or player" and "As long as this card is covering that creature or player, that creature or player has 'Whenever this creature or player becomes the target of a spell or ability, copy this card and cast the copy without paying its mana cost, targetting yourself.'"

- The term "covering" describes the relationship between the card with spread while in the exile zone and the creature or player chosen when the spell represented by that card resolves.
- The card with spread remains covering the chosen creature or player as long as the card with spread remains exiled and the creature remains on the battlefield or the player remains in the game. For a creature, the card with spread remains covering that object even if it changes controller or stops being a creature, as long as it remains on the battlefield.

Runaway Flames 1 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Instant Red mana symbol
Runaway Flames deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Spread (Then you may exile this spell card covering a creature or player. Whenever that creature or player becomes the target of a spell or ability, it's controller, or he or she, casts a copy of this card without paying its mana cost, targetting his or her self.)

What about that?

Wed, 2013-03-27 23:11
CerberusX
CerberusX's picture

Wow Decembra.. that's... broken as heck as it stands in my opinion. Not withstanding its slightly awkward mechanic wording, the spell deals an INSANE amount of damage. If they target themselves with anything from card draw to life gain, they take 2 damage. If anyone targets them with anything from discard to draw to burn, they take 2 damage. And as it stands there is no way to get rid of a card with Spread, and they're stackable! Even if Runaway flames cost 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol more and dealt only 1 damage instead of two it might STILL be too broken. Because lets be honest, why would you ever target a creature with the Spread of this card when it will demolish your opponent's life in a few turns?

Having said all that, I don't think Spread as a mechanic is unfeasible. My simple solution is to cut out the 'player' aspect and that cleans up the wording too. Example:

Runaway Flames 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol
Instant Uncommon
Runaway Flames deals 3 damage to target creature.
Spread (When this spell card is put into a graveyard after resolving, exile it covering target creature. Whenever that creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, you may casts a copy of this card targeting the covered creature without paying its mana cost.)

And then maybe make a different on targeting only payers that is way more expensive? I dunno if that side is feasible at all though.

Also, my own balance question. I fear the answer is no, but for my Eridian Flux set I wanted to do something spectacular with Chroma in every color. I'm concerned about the resulting card though, there are some worries and I'd like to have a bit of input to see if you agree without telling you what those worries are.

Perpetual Flux

Thu, 2013-03-28 01:02
Anuttymous
Anuttymous's picture

Why not something much simpler... Spread (Exile this spell card as it resolves. Whenever a player <effect>, that player may cast this card from exile without paying its mana cost.)

Could also be "...creature <effect>, that creature's controller..." All you need to do is decide a simple, but not too common <effect>. Maybe "becomes the target of a spell of ability" or "casts the second spell of a turn".

Anuttymous the Gathering
Anonymous + nutty = A-nutty-mous (no mice involved)
Ask me if you need any help

Fri, 2013-03-29 02:45
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Thanks for all the feedback on Runaway Flames guys. It was more of a spur of the moment thing, not so much one I'm working on right now.
I need your help again, though. This is something I'm working on for "my" pseudo-community set "Currently Untitled Set - Origins":

CG08 (Majority Boar) 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Boar Common
Forest origin (You may reveal three Forests from your hand rather than pay this card’s mana cost. Activate an origin ability only once each turn.)
CG08 gets +1/+1 for each other Boar you control.
One vote per tusk. Two tusks per boar. Three too many boars per you—all voting against.
2/2

RG02 (Tallyboar) 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Boar Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put an Election counter on RG02 for each other Boar you control. Then, if there are 20 or more Election counters on RG02, you win the game.
At the beginning of your end step, you may move any number of Election counters from RG02 to another creature you control named RG02.
3 mana symbolGreen mana symbol: Put 2/2 green Boar creature token onto the battlefield.
4/4

He's a big pig! You can be a big pig too! Oink! Stick out your tongue
Mainly I'm looking for feedback on Tallyboar. Is 20 to win the right number? Is there a way for me to shorten the text and get the same result? Is it too upside or is it balanced at Red mana symbol?
But, if you find anything majorly wrong with Majority Boar, or think maybe it should be uncommon then I need that feedback too - because it's preferred at common. I think it should be fine for limited if these are the only two boars in the set, or the color green even.

@CerberusX:

Worry #1: Is the order of effects represented on the card the order by which you do them, or can you choose?
Worry #2: Your deck probably won't ever run out, but that's.. well.. besides the anti-mill factor, I think it's not bad. EDIT: On second thought, if you play enough blue you'll mill yourself out.
Worry #3: Hybrid cards. Okay, now I get the problem...
Worry #4: I have no words. O_O