The Wonderful, All-Encompassing Card Clinic

continued...
Sat, 2013-01-12 05:10
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

No.

Zone makes the cards strictly better than a standard basic land, which is about the equivalent in card design of deicide, especially since zone allows for mana-fixing, which is considered to be an extremely powerful effect (quality of mana, not quantity, matters in late-game situations) and has entailed higher rarities, CIPT, setting your mana base back, etc.

For your sake, scrap Zone.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Sat, 2013-01-12 05:14
kingofsouls

No problem . Just trying to help.

Sat, 2013-01-12 10:26
Decembra
Decembra's picture

@Jeske: "Scrap Zone." That's your immediate solution? Snow Lands are also strictly better than standard basic lands.
I'm also pretty sure that my design set the mana base back. It doesn't collect basic land types, it changes them.
There are common land fixers that work in almost the same way - the Panoramas from the Alara Block.
I suppose the problem is that they produce colored mana instead of 1 mana symbol colorless mana? But as basic lands they would have to. So that's why I thought of their change ability being restricted to the creatures you have out.

Sat, 2013-01-12 15:06
doc_T

@Blaster Zone 2.0: I think this card is still too strong. It would already be very good without the land type adaption. and it defintely feels more than Blue mana symbol to me.

Adaptive Territory
Land Blue mana symbol
Whenever you cast a spell, Adaptive Territory gains "Tap symbol: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool." until end of turn.

What do you think of this? Is it completely useless? Or more than Blue mana symbol?

Sat, 2013-01-12 16:54
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Decembra) Snow lands only became strictly better because cards played off the type themselves, not because they had any additional inherent rules like Zone does. In fact, take away the cards that need Snow lands (i.e. a handful of cards in Ice Age, Alliances, and Coldsnap) and Basic Snow Lands are no better or worse than a default basic land. This is not the case with Zone, which allows for mana-fixing.

Also, the Panoramas are landfetch effects that require the panorama to be sacrificed, do not in and of themselves generate colored mana, and put the fetched land onto the battlefield tapped. Apples and oranges. A closer comparison would be to the shardlands (see Savage Lands for an example), which are uncommon and CIPT, Rupture Spire which CIPTs and requires a mana payment, or Seafloor Debris and its cycle from Odyssey, which are uncommon, CIPT, generate colored mana and sac to mana fix.

I will say it again: Quality of mana matters more than quantity most of the time.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Sat, 2013-01-12 17:29
Zuty
Zuty's picture

I bet you all hear this a lot, but in my spare time I am working on a wedge set. I created a mechanic for each wedge and I'd like to know if they are too good, too weak, worded incorrectly, etc.

URG
Surge X <Cost>: You may cast this spell for its surge cost. If you do, reveal the top X card(s) of your library. If an instant or sorcery card is revealed this way, add that card's effects to this spell. Then place all cards revealed this way on the bottom of your library in any order.

Surging Vigor Green mana symbol
Colorless mana symbol
Sorcery
Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
Surge 3 1 mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol (You may cast this spell for its surge cost. If you do, reveal the top three cards of your library. If an instant or sorcery card is revealed this way, add that card’s effects to this spell. Then place all cards revealed this way on the bottom of your library in any order.)

NOTES
URG is all about improving on nature, seeking out new spells and ideas, and "going with the flow". Surge works kind of like Splice from Kamigawa, except you don't know what effect if any you'll be grabbing.
I'm pretty sure this would work if a creature had Surge; you'd reveal an instant or sorcery and it would go off and then get placed on the bottom of your deck.

RWU
Multitude — [effect containing X], where X is # plus the number of cards named [cardname] in your graveyard.

Call in the Calvary 2 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Colorless mana symbol
Sorcery
Multitude — Put X 2/2 white Human Viking creature tokens onto the battlefield, where X is 2 plus the number of cards named Call in the Calvary in your graveyard.

NOTES
RWU, much like the colors would imply, is all about standing together, powers in numbers, and improving on past experiences. Sure, some of the cards will start off a tad weak, but they will soon grow in power. I'm also thinking of adding in other cards that would be treated as being the named card while in the graveyard, much like these two cards from Odyssey.

WBR
Honored — As long as you control a legendary creature, [effect].

Disciple of Xelos White mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbol
Blue mana symbol
Creature - Human Shaman Warrior
Honored — Disciple of Xelos gets +2/+0 and gains first strike as long as you control a legendary creature.
3/5

NOTES
WBR is all about ultimate power, warfare, and worship. Lead by the trio of dragon lords, the ultimate authority, the inhabitants of WBR learned that the best way to not get killed is to follow the heroes.

BGW
Recycle <mana>: You may exile this card from your graveyard to add <mana> to your mana pool.

Fungal Ramp Green mana symbol
Colorless mana symbol
Creature - Fungus Wall
Recycle 2 mana symbol
0/2

NOTES
BGW is all about survival, growth, and honoring their dead. They do this in the ultimate way, by making their life essence one with the æther. Recycle turns your dead guys into mana sources.

GUB
Mask <cost>: Exile this card face down masking target creature for 1 mana symbol. When that creature leaves the battlefield, you may pay <cost>. If you do, cast this spell.

Mushbloom Treefolk Green mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Colorless mana symbol
Creature - Treefolk Fungus
Mask Green mana symbol
3/3

NOTES
GUB is all about politics, deception, and personal gain. Hiding behind "masks", the inhabitants of GUB have learned that the only one they can trust in themselves; and sometimes, that's not even true.

I took some wording from Morph to make this. My understanding is that if you don't pay the Mask cost, the card will just remain exiled. I could be wrong, but I didn't want to get too wordy and add in a redundant sentence explaining what happens when you don't pay the Mask cost.


Thanks,

~Zuty

Sat, 2013-01-12 19:25
Decembra
Decembra's picture

@Jeske: Okay, I will just leave the Zone lands as they are without any rules and make the cards play off of them, then I can use that mana fixing in an artifact cycle maybe like this:

Clerik Core 1 mana symbol
Artifact - Fortification Colorless mana symbol
Fortified land is a Plains. If that land is a basic zone land, fortified land is a Plains in addition to its other land types instead.
Fortify 1 mana symbol

Is my wording correct? Does this produce a similar problem as being too good at common?

Sat, 2013-01-12 19:26
kingofsouls

I would say yes.

Sun, 2013-01-13 07:01
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

At common, yes since the mana-fixing effect is available immediately. Note that virtually all lands that *can* mana fix for nothing more than a Tap symbol cost CIPT, specifically because they can mana fix without any further repercussions for your mana base otherwise. (Those that don't CIPT generally have a mana cost to use the mana ability, making it less useful.)

I will note that the Guildgates are (a) common and (b) CIPT.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Sun, 2013-01-13 07:21
BolasDragon
BolasDragon's picture

I think I've been following this conversation clearly, but what does CIPT mean?

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
"The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog." Mark Twain

Sun, 2013-01-13 07:47
Sewn-Eye
Sewn-Eye's picture

CIPT is old slang for ETBT.

"Too wary to charge, too prudent to serve. Not anymore."
—Sedris, the Traitor King

Sun, 2013-01-13 08:01
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

BolasDragon) Comes Into Play Tapped.

As Sewn-Eye notes, the proper acronym is ETBT, but I prefer CIPT since I've (a) been designing since Mirrodin and (b) I can pronounce CIPT as its acronym.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Sun, 2013-01-13 15:50
Decembra
Decembra's picture

@Jeske: You realize that's an artifact, right? Not a mana fixing land.

Sun, 2013-01-13 16:08
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

Turn 1: I play an Azorius Guildgate. It ETB tapped.
Turn 2: It untaps. I can now tap it for Blue mana symbol or White mana symbol.

Turn 1: I play an Island. I tap it to cast Cleric Core.
Turn 2: I tap my Island to attach Cleric Core to it. It produces White mana symbol now, but only White mana symbol, and not this turn because it's tapped.
Turn 3: My Island untaps. It's now a Plains. I can now tap it for White mana symbol.

Turn 1: I play a Zone Island. I tap it to cast Cleric Core.
Turn 2: I tap my Zone Island to attach Cleric Core to it. It now produces Blue mana symbol or White mana symbol. But not this turn because it's tapped.
Turn 3: My Zone Island untaps. I can now tap it for Blue mana symbol or White mana symbol.

With Cleric Core and a Zone, I can get a functional equivalent to Azorius Guildgate not earlier than Turn 3.

That doesn't seem overpowered to me, not even at Common.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Sun, 2013-01-13 16:27
Decembra
Decembra's picture

@Tarvoc: You think with that in mind, I could add ETB draw onto this "Core" artifact cycle? Because looking at Abundant Growth, I pay 1 mana more for less, currently. Although artifacts have their own benefits and disadvantages, I think I could even make Clerik Core's CMC 0 mana symbol, then it's like playing a guildgate for 2 cards - benefit being you get an artifact for whatever reason. But then I drop the ETB draw.

Sun, 2013-01-13 17:21
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

You may be correct but you should keep in mind that Abundant Growth is Green mana symbol, which gets mana fixing more easily than other colors.

Exploit the Weak 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Sorcery Common
Target opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life. If that player has 10 or less life, he loses 3 life and you gain 3 life instead.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Sun, 2013-01-13 21:26
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Here's an alternate version of Clerik Core, that touches on boosting mono-color in mana bases:

Clerik Core 1 mana symbol
Artifact - Fortification Colorless mana symbol
Fortified land is a Plains and has "Tap symbol: Add White mana symbolWhite mana symbol to your mana pool."
Fortify 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol (1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol: Attach to target land you control. Fortify only as a sorcery. This card enters the battlefield unattached and stays on the battlefield if the land leaves play.)

Could probably be "Fortify 2 mana symbol:"
Any other issues? By the way, what happens if somebody plays Spreading Seas on my land that is Fortified by Clerik Core - which land type is it?

Sun, 2013-01-13 19:57
ArcAngle

@Decembra: it might be easier just to write it this way:
Clerick Core 1 mana symbol
Artifact - Fortification Common
When fortified land becomes tapped, add White mana symbol to your mana pool.
Fortify Zone 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol

Spoiler:

Sun, 2013-01-13 21:24
Decembra
Decembra's picture

@ArcAngle: I'm sure I could drop the "Zone" part aswell, but in your version it's not adding mono-color, it's adding White mana symbol and whatever other color the land might tap for. Also, a land tapping itself to say "Put a charge counter on Mirrodin's Core" produces mana for you, which is probably out of flavor in this version of Clerik Core. The focus is on amplified mono mana.

Sun, 2013-01-13 23:47
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Decembra) The issue is that it can be attached the same turn it's cast to an untapped land.

Also, it would become an Island if Spreading Seas was played second, and a Plains if it fortified second. Later timestamps trump earlier ones.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Mon, 2013-01-14 00:09
Decembra
Decembra's picture

Jeske: Explain why that's an issue? It takes two cards and a turn to fix your land into two of the 5 colors.
Thanks for clarification of the rules there. A happy smile
Also: I'm assuming that you're talking about the first version of Clerik Core, the one that might be costed at 0 mana symbol?

Tue, 2013-01-15 12:27
CerberusX
CerberusX's picture

@ Zuty: People seem to have overlooked your entry lol. Here are my thoughts though:

Surging Vigor
My gut reaction was immediately that this was too strong, but on further evaluation it might be okay because you need to be an additional cost and or mana color to get the surge, and then its like a cascade that only affects instants and sorceries in a limited bracket. You do need a slight reword, as it stands it is a bit ambiguous what happens if you reveal multiple instants or sorceries. So maybe add the first instant or sorcery's effect. The bracket also may need to be bigger, and I wouldn't BoL the instant used, but graveyard it.

Multitude
The effect of multitude in and of itself is fine, the mana cost and ruling all seems in order. The only thing is that I don't know if I would keyword this ability. Token generation has been around forever, and how many cards are you actually going to use this on? If its any more than about two or three, the mechanic soon becomes broken and besides which you don't need to keyword this as it is really a pseudo.

Honored
Perfectly reasonable as is! There isn't much to say, since Honored can easily be balanced by tweaking the bonus that it gives, and since it is creature dependent and does exactly as a keyword should, god job Stick out your tongue

Recycle
I'ma bit leery of this because it can get overpowered in a heartbeat. You're already in three colors, its simple to splash in blue for self mill and Laboratory maniacs. Drop half your deck into your graveyard for 5 mana via traumatize and BAM unlimited colorless essentially. Yes you RFG the cards, but any kind of mana acceleration as a mechanic is very difficult to balance, especially when blue mill is cheap. A sense a wicked reanimator deck in there too. This is just a suggestion, but perhaps recycle should be more like.. well recycling in a different way. How about "Recycle - {Cost} (You may put this card from a graveyard onto the bottom of your library for its Recycle cost)" Or perhaps put it X cards from the top of your library for the cost.

Mask
Seems just fine as is heh, like an interesting Morph.

Tue, 2013-01-15 18:50
Sgt Failure
Sgt Failure's picture

I'm currently working on a couple of cards utilising the Colorize mechanic I came up with to the Orbis set. So this is partly a card review and partly a keyword review:

Booming Warcry Red mana symbol
Sorcery Colorless mana symbol
Creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn.
Colorize Red mana symbolWhite mana symbol (At the beginning of your upkeep you may pay Red mana symbolWhite mana symbol and reveal this card. If you do you may add this card’s effects to each instant and sorcery spell you cast this turn.)

Breathing Life 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Sorcery Red mana symbol
You gain 1 life.
Return Breathing Life to its owner’s hand.
Colorize 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbol (At the beginning of your upkeep you may pay 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbol and reveal this card. If you do you may add this card’s effects to each instant and sorcery spell you cast this turn.)

Render


Zuty: Your mechanics seem fine, and I like how you linked them to the flavor somehow. Surging Vigor and Multitude all depends on the set as a whole, but I fear they might be weak in limited if not used correctly.
Honored is fine, but can also be underpowered in limited unless you have a large number of legendary creatures.
Recycle can be broken, and in a selfmill deck it is insane. As it is now I can't find an easy fix...
Mask blows me away, but I don't know if that is good or not. It feels great, but both blue and green like to keep their creatures alive so I don't know about that...


A card a day keeps the goyf away!

Tue, 2013-01-15 18:44
Zuty
Zuty's picture

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Multitude would be on multiple cards, stuff like "deal 1 + X damage" or "one + X +1/+1 counters" or "gets +X/+X where X equals same name in GY /or/ on battlefield." I really couldn't think of anything else for RWU; I wanted to have some sort of 'United We Stand' effect, but that seemed too obvious. Multitude became that effect, but in a different way. I might look back into coming up with something else completely.

For Recycle, I think the best fix would be "You can only Recycle once per turn" because if I did only on your turn you could still abuse it and if I made it sorcery speed you can't play instant cards on other players turns, but you wouldn't need to since you'd just empty your graveyard on your turn. I hadn't even thought about self milling, which is weird since Dredge lies in two of the three colors for this wedge.

Surge I'll change to casting the spell so it gets discarded and I'll just have to change the wording a bit to further explain what would happen if more than one is revealed.

Thanks again,

~Zuty

EDIT: I'm working on the wording of Surge and arrived at a problem.

Surge 1 <COST>: You may cast this spell for its surge cost. If you do, look at the top card of your library.If it’s an instant or sorcery, you may reveal that card and cast it without paying its mana cost. Otherwise, put it on the bottom of your library.

I don't think anything is wrong with Surge 1, but it's when I increase it is when I run into an issue ...

Surge X <COST>: (You may cast this spell for its surge cost. If you do, look at the top three cards of your library. You may reveal an instant or sorcery from among them and cast that card without paying its mana cost. Then place all cards on the bottom of your library in any order.)

My assumption is that if you reveal an instant/sorcery and cast it, it will go to the GY and not be placed on the bottom of your library with the other cards. I didn't want to say "Then place all OTHER cards on the bottom..." because you may not reveal an instant or sorcery.

Really what I am worried about is that you'll Surge X, reveal the top X, cast an instant/sorcery from among them, and then place them on the bottom of your library which I don't want.

~Zuty

Tue, 2013-01-15 19:27
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

@Zuty: For Sourge wording take a look at Commune with Nature and say "Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order."

Tue, 2013-01-15 20:21
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

@ Sgt Failure: I really like your Colorize mechanic. It's a bit like a combination of Splice and Forecast. I can see WotC actually doing something like this one day.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Tue, 2013-01-15 20:24
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

@Tarvoc: I really like Colorize as well - even if I'm pretty sure Wizards won't do something like that^^ (MaRo talked about the old guild mechanics a few months ago and which one of them might show up again some day. Forecast won't ever come back, because it leads to repetative gameplays - and Colorize has the same issue Winking smiley )

Tue, 2013-01-15 22:31
Sgt Failure
Sgt Failure's picture

Point taken. I need your opinion on whatever or not you believe the mechanic is creating memory issues? A problem I can see with the current wording is that you don't remember if you've colorized or not, leading to misconception, but I can't find an easy solution...


A card a day keeps the goyf away!

Wed, 2013-01-16 04:55
Zalinthel

Hey guys. I made a card that is part of a "no colorless" set I've been making. I've focused on tribals with themes (ignoring the literal "tribal" mechanic) and centralized mechanics for each.

In this case, mono red Phoenixes, with a focus on various forms of counters, and a new ability, Rebirth.

Rebirth is an ability to recover Phoenixes/other cards from the graveyard to live again, as Phoenixes themselves do.

To Keyword it: Rebirth X (X: Return this creature from your graveyard to the battlefield with an ash counter. Creatures that enter the battlefield with ash counters don't cause abilities to trigger, and can't activate abilities with T: in their cost. The creature has haste until end of turn. At end of turn (note not the beginning of the endstep, to negate shennanigans), return the creature to its owner's hand.)

The purpose of the way Rebirth is worded is to negate any of the (numerous) abilities that can be triggered by anything that likes you playing creatures (this is done to lessen the power of the ability.) Negating tap abilities is because of certain cards that have tap abilities that would be easily abusable.

Enough explanation, to the card itself:

Sunwing, the Flame's Reign RRRRRRR (Yes, 7 Red Mana)
Legendary Creature- Phoenix

Flying
When Sunwing, the Flame’s Reign enters the battlefield, put a blaze counter on each land your opponents control.
At the beginning of each opponent’s upkeep, Sunwing deals 1 damage to that opponent for each land with a blaze counter they control.
When Sunwing, the Flame’s Reign leaves play, remove all blaze counters from opposing lands.
If another Phoenix would enter the battlefield under your control with counters, it instead enters with no counters.
Rebirth: RRRRRRRRRRRR (12 Red Mana)
8/8

As one can see, he's scary as all hell. I feel this is justified by his rather hefty mana cost, his ease of being removed (no protection, incredibly expensive Rebirth, ETB effect that requires him to stay at least until pass turn to do anything) and his Legendary tag.

The last ability serves to "turn on" the rest of the deck, making many of the abilities get a lot scarier if Sunwing is in play.

Wed, 2013-01-16 05:06
BolasDragon
BolasDragon's picture

One of the things that any designer of anything, not just magic, is this: KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. Your mana/ability cost would be practically unreadable unless someone had it memorized (Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol). The thing I usually go with is, would you see Wizards actually printing this, or would they nerf it for some reason.

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
"The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog." Mark Twain

Wed, 2013-01-16 05:12
Zalinthel

Fair enough point. The big thing is that I wanted to somehow do away with the concept of blank mana for select cards (to limit their interactivity with other colors while still being potent within their specific deck.) If there was a way I could condense the mana cost in a way that makes sense I would, if nothing else for readability's sake.

Wed, 2013-01-16 06:03
BolasDragon
BolasDragon's picture

I don't think there's much you can do in conventional magic, but I saw someone working on a mana template so that you can stack multiples of the same mana behind each other. I have a suspicion it was Zuty, but I do not know.

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
"The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog." Mark Twain

Wed, 2013-01-16 06:13
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

You don't have to eliminate colorless mana completely, it would be enough to create your cards so they become more or less unviable in any decks except mono-colored.
Three to four colored mana of the same color in the card's cost should be sufficient to make a card unsplashable under any normal circumstances.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Wed, 2013-01-16 06:52
Zalinthel

Perhaps have it read: "12, spend only red mana to pay this cost"? While not exactly an ideal solution, it could work.
I.E.
Rebirth: 12. Spend only red mana to pay this cost.

Bar hard-to-read mana costs, thoughts on the card itself?

Wed, 2013-01-16 07:40
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

"Spend only red mana" is normally only used when X mana symbol is involved. But why do you want to avoid colorless mana anyway? As I said: If you just want to make it unsplashable, three or four colored mana would be absolutely sufficient.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Wed, 2013-01-16 10:26
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

Tarvoc) He's said that his set theme as a whole is no colorless mana.

BolasDragon) ArcaneTheWoof, actually.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Wed, 2013-01-16 12:34
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

Yes, I know what he said. I'm just asking why he wants to do that.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Wed, 2013-01-16 14:42
Zalinthel

I wanted to experiment with deck-types that are strictly in their colors. In any normal case, there are almost NO decks in current magic that can't be made better by the simple act of making it two colors instead of one; I wanted to attempt to make cards that can feel competitive while still being mono, partially for flavor reasons.

Wed, 2013-01-16 15:10
ArcAngle

I think the wording on rebirth is a bit odd. Unless something else interacts with Ash counter's in an interesting way, I don't think you need the added complexity for a downside in the ability, especially since the Phoenix is preventing the ash counter from being put on as well. I'd write it:
Rebirth X (X:Return this creature from your graveyard to the battlefield with an ash counter. The creature has haste. At end of turn, return the creature to its owner's hand)
If you are worried about tapped abilities being abused, don't put rebirth on cards with abuse-able abilities, or significantly raise its cost. As for enter the battlefield abilities, write "When a creature enters the battlefield from your hand" instead of *When a creature enters the battlefield" should work in most cases.

As for the no colourless idea, I am a little wary. I have played to many decks where I have gotten mana-screwed to suggest that splashing extra colours always makes a deck better. If you want to experiment with this, try putting "Pay only <colour> mana for ~ mana cost and abilities" on your cards.

Now, I card I am working on:

MG2 — Mrshyrgoyf 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature — Lhurgoyf Mythic Rare
MG2 — Mrshyrgoyf Power and Toughness are equal to the number of cards in your graveyard.
1, Discard a card: MG2 — Mrshyrgoyf gains Haste, Hexproof, Reach, Trample or Vigilance until end of turn.
*/*

I want it to be a strong, splashy, build around me mythic, without being totally broken. Comments, Suggestions?

Spoiler:

Wed, 2013-01-16 18:07
Zalinthel

Essentially the purpose of Ash counters is to prevent Phoenixes from triggering the numerous ETB effects that certain other cards have. Sunwing negates ash counters from happening to OTHER Phoenixes that get rebirthed (allowing said ETB effects to trigger), but still gets one himself if he is rebirthed (hence the wording "another" in the ability.) I wish there was a way to make the ability less awkwardly worded, but I can't for the life of me how. And yes, as far as mana costs are concerned, I believe that "spend only *whatever color* mana to pay this cost" is the most efficient way to word it.

Also: That Goyf is scary. Very scary. In certain deck-types it could easy end the game the same turn it hits play. In a self-mill deck, you could easily get around five or six mana, drop him and pitch a card or two to give him haste and/or trample and swing for up in the 20's fairly easily. Also, the fact that pitching cards to him (whether to buff him up, or stop removal via. Hexproof) makes him get bigger is also of potential concern. Nonetheless,the fact that you need to pitch cards either to give him protection or stop him from being chumped to eternity limits the amount of abuse you could have with it.

Wed, 2013-01-16 18:21
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

ArcAngle wrote:
As for enter the battlefield abilities, write "When a creature enters the battlefield from your hand" instead of *When a creature enters the battlefield" should work in most cases.

No, that does not work! Since cast spells wander over the stack, this wording would only be triggered by cards like Show and Tell. You need a wording similar to Phage the Untouchable's:

"When ~ enters the battlefield, if you did cast it from your hand, effect".

@MG2: Reminded me instantly of Lord of Extinction. Loved that one, and it was fine powerwise as well, actually. I'm not sure, if the build-in invasion of MG2 would be to strong or the haste would lead to to many instant-deaths - but I'd say playtesting would be needed to make sure about that..

Wed, 2013-01-16 22:07
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

CARDNAME
Sorcery Common
You gain 1 life for each forest you control.

What mana cost would be adequate for that? I thought about 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol. Bountiful Harvest costs 4 mana symbolGreen mana symbol, but it counts all lands and not just forests.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Wed, 2013-01-16 22:13
ThisisSakon
ThisisSakon's picture

I would think either that or 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbol would be a safe cost. Bountiful Harvest is a bit on the expensive side, even though you need more land for it to be useful...

Wed, 2013-01-16 22:26
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

I'll put it at 1 mana symbolGreen mana symbol then.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Wed, 2013-01-16 23:04
ThisisSakon
ThisisSakon's picture

Alright!

How weird is this ability?

Shift <number> -- <cost> (You may cast this spell for its shift cost, then reveal the top {english_number(param1)} cards of your library. You may cast a card that shares a card type with this from among them without paying its mana cost. If you do, exile this spell.)

Wed, 2013-01-16 23:58
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

That seems OP if placed on a creature. Emrakul, Blightsteel, and other bombs break it.

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Thu, 2013-01-17 00:00
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

Yay, turn one Emrakul! Big smile

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Thu, 2013-01-17 00:03
ThisisSakon
ThisisSakon's picture

Hardly, lol. I would never be stupid enough to make a 1 mana Shift.

And if I did, I would make the shift number only 1, so there would need to be lotsa luck. Unless you're dedicated blue, there's gonna be an element of luck involved A happy smile

Thu, 2013-01-17 02:10
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

ThisisSakon) My concern isn't T1 kills, it's the ability to cheat in an endgame bomb much earlier than you're able to play one legitimately. This is specifically why such bombs have Colossus Clauses (to prevent a T2 Exhume bringing them back after a discard engine is used to dump them into the graveyard specifically for that purpose on T1).

Ceterum censeo Bolasinem esse delendam.
Accepting new types for S:tC!
Custom Keywords!

Thu, 2013-01-17 02:15
CerberusX
CerberusX's picture

Actually it may not be all that broken... essentially its a Polymorph style effect. Depending on what the shift cost is, and the number of cards it searches, I think its perfectly reasonable to be honest. I'd say the Shift cost would be higher than the spells actual cost, kind of like how they made the cycle cards in Alara (I think?) that cost waaayyyy more to cycle but had a stronger effect. So in my opinion I love it and unlike Polymorph or cascade you have a limited window.. so you could pay extra and receive nothing.