[Dysteria] Re-Starting the Community Thread

Mon, 2008-10-06 05:49
elite1942
elite1942's picture

Alright guys, i really liked where the old community thread was going; i loved making the cards, i loved seeing other peoples ideas, and now, its been dead for almost a year. i would love to see the set, or even a new one started, and if anyone has ideas, let me know. if we worked on the old set last year, if you are brand new, drop a message and lets get the set back online.

Spoiler:

I like my music like i like my gun...LOUD

Mon, 2008-10-06 07:34
Idle Muse
Idle Muse's picture

There have been two attempts since last years community thread to start a new one, though neither progressed far beyond ideas.

Formerly known as Lordpenguin.
Download DraftWithMSE to draft custom MSE sets!

Mon, 2008-10-06 15:29
Cizzle
Cizzle's picture

So why not?

Mon, 2008-10-06 16:52
elite1942
elite1942's picture

keywords always seem to be a big problem, so how about we have people submit ideas for keywords, fix them as they need it, then once we have a good list of them, we vote for three or four

I like my music like i like my gun...LOUD

Mon, 2008-10-06 19:02
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Why do community sets fail? Lots of reason; disinterest is usually the number one reason. People think its fun starting out, but as it gets further along, people are less willing to remain commited to a project. That's just how it is.

Mon, 2008-10-06 21:01
Ian

What did horror have that lit the fire and kept it lit during production of the set?

Mon, 2008-10-06 21:04
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Innuendo's undying interest, and my willingness to keep up, if you ask me. It also didn't get bogged down in things like voting.

Mon, 2008-10-06 21:35
Idle Muse
Idle Muse's picture

It also had a clear-cut theme right from the beginning, and we didn't worry too much about massive flavour or mechanical synergy until near the end.

Formerly known as Lordpenguin.
Download DraftWithMSE to draft custom MSE sets!

Tue, 2008-10-07 03:08
monkeychewtoy
monkeychewtoy's picture

My ideas tended to go all over the place and confuse people, and then we'd get bogged down in debate. I got a little better with my second attempt, but the same thing has sort of happened. And now I've got a job, and classes, and I'm stage manager for the college's theatre production... I just don't have the time I need. Except on Thursdays. That's when I have free time.

It may be that I've become pessimistic about this whole ordeal, but I don't really expect the CMaS'08 to be done before the first of the year. It's to the point where if I restart the process, (again,) it'll be under the heading of CMaS'09.

I have several hypotheses about how and why the CMaS'08 died... and again. Management issues, mostly, and an excess of focus. People were too focused on things like races, color balance, flavor, and keywords. If you read Mark Rosewater's articles, (and you really should,) he's always mentioning cards he designed for sets that had nothing to do with the set, or which used mechanics that became keywords, or keywords that became unnamed mechanics, or cards that started as Gerbils but would up being Illusions... my point is that there was an expectation that every card submitted had to fulfill a purpose from the get-go, and had to have a clear, flavor-based role. This was unrealistic. The Horror set did not have these expectations. And it flourished.

Eh, I've had a long day, and I'm beginning to ramble. Suffice to say, I really do want this CMaS to succeed. But I'm no longer convinced it will unless I take a different tack during the next resurrection. This resurrection may or may not occur before the first of the year. I'd like for it to, and heck, it could happen Thursday, but I'm not optimistic.


September 21, 2007: Monkeychewtoy predicts monocolored hybrid cards, calls them "Ridiculous."

Tue, 2008-10-07 04:41
elite1942
elite1942's picture

well if anyone is still interested (not sure how many of you are) i have a few ideas that might help people not think about synergy and balance, and just come up with more raw ideas.

Spoiler:

I like my music like i like my gun...LOUD

Tue, 2008-10-07 04:53
Vergalon
Vergalon's picture

I like it, but the second part has a wording issue, I think the name is misspelled, and, if that's the case, Juggernaut says hi

taken already I'm afraid >:

Mon, 2008-11-03 20:19
Darkmouse

At the risk of Necroing a thread, I would like to say something.

I just joined, and I'm already beginning a few sets of my own. I also intend to do a "my favorite cards" set that will contain cards from these very forums. I will of course ask permission for every card.

Instead, though, I would like to offer my services as editor and general dictator. Think of me as the US vice president voting in the senate. I won't make a decision very often, but I will when it is needed.

I would propose it this way: I will ask the questions, others can answer as they see fit. Once I have asked something, if there is discussion, I will watch and ask more questions if needed. If the discussion veers out of control, I will gently guide it back. Even if i need to use a gentle sledgehammer. I will take the general sense of the people that answer, and make a decision if needed. I will capture the process in the set, but be a dictator if need be. Anyone who thinks I am out of line can call me on it, and I won't send the suede denim secret police for you. (Cookie to the first that gets that reference without cheating)

I would like the opinions of the following on my proposal:
Pichoro
LordPenguin
MonkeyChewToy
and anyone else that wants to tell me where to go. Big smile

If this is a good idea, this should be viewed as Cummunity Set 2009 with preliminaries beginning immediately.

Also: Somewhere I saw an article or thread "cards every set needs" and I can't seem to refind it. If anyone knows where it is, whether here, the wizards boards, or on gleemax, please let me know.

Projects I am dabbling in at the moment:
Kinda jumping into: Niv-Mizzet Community Set
Uncensored - An un-set with cards that are inappropriate for posting here.
Token Irony - Using MSE to create tokens with ironic pictures, such as politicians on zombi

Mon, 2008-11-03 20:41
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Hello, Darkmouse. First and foremost, welcome to the forums. While you're here, if you have any questions or suggestions, please feel free to ask. You can contact me personally via the contact link on the left side of every page here, and you can also just speak to me in a thread, and I'll notice.

Also, the "Cards Every Set Should Have" thread is my baby, based on a project by a member of mtgsalvation. Find my thread here.


Now, its hard to say this without just sounding mean and discouraging, but my first thought is something like "Who are you?" You said yourself that you're new here, and for that matter, also confessed that you are "beginning a few sets of [your] own." How are you qualified to lead a community set effort? There's nothing wrong with being new and starting out, but when your skills (as well as your personality) are pretty much unknown, why should anyone follow you?

My personal advice is that we let this particular project rest in peace. That's not to say we stop building sets as a community; with my awesome powers of clairvoyance and temporal manipulation, I'm going to make a prediction that there is a project that will come along in the near future led by a long-standing member here. I would advice participating in the project, as a way to get yourself known more and to practice design in a group.

Again, I don't mean to sound harsh, so don't take it that way. I do mean to be frank and honest, though.

Mon, 2008-11-03 21:49
Idle Muse
Idle Muse's picture

Quote:
I'm going to make a prediction that there is a project that will come along in the near future led by a long-standing member here.

What you possibly mean by this? Big smileBig smile I guess I should actually get a move on and post it.

Quote:
Think of me as the US vice president voting in the senate.

Non-US members are very confused by this.


I've kind of written this post backwards so far, so I'm gonna start again: Darkmouse, welcome to the forums, I hope you have fun here and don't take any of this the wrong way. We need lots of people who are motivated to help on community sets, and stepping out like you did, voluteering to head a project takes guts, especially if you haven't been set building for long. However, like Pichoro, I must point out that this project is pretty much dead. It has flopped around a couple of times, but there isn't a heartbeat. Ressurecting it with a new leader isn't going to deal with the main issue which is the backlog of ideas and differences in opinion that meant it never really got off the ground. Much better would be to start over with a new idea, and to be honest, do you really want to be in charge of that? I think it would be fabulous if you could become a frequent contributor, because frankly we need as many as we can get, but as Pichoro mentioned, there are ideas for community sets waiting to be realised, which have a much greater chance of success than another round of CPR on this one.

In conclusion, watch this space, please don't get put off by what we've said, we'd love it if you could help out on sets in the future. In the meanwhile, there are several highly active game threads (creature type game, challenge game, you make the card), and two important help threads (wording clinic and balancing clinic), and posting in those will generally help us get to know you and your design skills some more!

This has actually been quite motivating, I may actually do something about what Pich was talking about tonight...

Formerly known as Lordpenguin.
Download DraftWithMSE to draft custom MSE sets!

Mon, 2008-11-03 22:35
Picks-at-Flies
Picks-at-Flies's picture

I will point to the Rhapsody thread, which is sort-of a community set (in that I am seeking to build the set with the help of the community, despite it being 'my' set). You are welcome to get involved in that to whatever level you want.

Tue, 2008-11-04 15:10
Darkmouse

Thank you, everyone. I'm glad to be here. And thank you for the thread link. I'll float the idea now... how about an "Introduction" thread, where new forum members can post their introductions, if and when they choose to do so.

So, who am I? After I posted, I realized that I was a complete unknown. Suffice it to say, I felt qualified at the time. I'm am in no way put off by anyone questioning my attempt to be the star after showing up halfway through the party. Its hard to step on my ego, and I'll send a gentle nudge if it ever does happen.

My intentions were to offer my services as editor and ultimate decider. But I didn't think I'd have to make many of the decisions. I was going to let others make the arguements, and then decide the hard decisions. Sometimes it takes an outsider to nail things down. An impartial observer, so to speak.

As far as resurrecting CMaS 08, I did not want to grab onto all of the work and results from before. I was trying to propose an all new set. I just picked a bad place to post it. From the sounds of it, LordPenguin will have a project he might want volunteers for. I may also pursue a project of my own. If I do lead a project, it will be my main project, that would be certain.

Having said all that, I'd like to ask some questions that might or might not belong here.

1. Can I start my own set and call for help and/or submissions? Where should I put the thread?
2. Can I start a new game thread, or should I stick to the ones existing? Will new threads / contests to design cards be responded to, or should I try to wade through Gleemax for that? Where should I put that thread?
3. What are the rules about using someone else’s posted card in a set of my own? Or in a compilation of submitted cards? How do I seek permission, if needed? How do I credit the originator of the card? I don't want to steal ideas, I want to fully credit the creator.

Pichoro, you sent me an email a week or two back. If I would like to send you an off-forum message, is that the way to do it?

Picks-at-Flies: I will look again at Rhaphsody. I'm not very musically inclined, so I didn't look too long when I first saw it. Maybe I can get a return on my time spent in Music Appreciation.

Projects I am dabbling in at the moment:
Kinda jumping into: Niv-Mizzet Community Set
Uncensored - An un-set with cards that are inappropriate for posting here.
Token Irony - Using MSE to create tokens with ironic pictures, such as politicians on zombi

Tue, 2008-11-04 15:24
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Darkmouse wrote:
I'll float the idea now... how about an "Introduction" thread, where new forum members can post their introductions, if and when they choose to do so.

Welcome and Introduction Thread. A happy smile

Darkmouse wrote:
1. Can I start my own set and call for help and/or submissions? Where should I put the thread?

Generally, it should be put into the Card Showcase forum, unless a pretty good amount of the work is done by someone other than yourself. It depends on your intent, really, and how much help you intend on using.

Darkmouse wrote:
2. Can I start a new game thread, or should I stick to the ones existing? Will new threads / contests to design cards be responded to, or should I try to wade through Gleemax for that? Where should I put that thread?

You're welcome to start a new game, although there is no guarantee of response. Two games from the past have failed now. So, it does happen. One only had two contestants in the first round, and that was it.

The existant games are in the Card Showcase forum.

Darkmouse wrote:
3. What are the rules about using someone else’s posted card in a set of my own? Or in a compilation of submitted cards? How do I seek permission, if needed? How do I credit the originator of the card? I don't want to steal ideas, I want to fully credit the creator.

Strictly speaking, there are no official rules on the matter. My advice is that if the member is recently active (you'll learn to tell as time goes by and you see names more often), just post in the thread the card is in. Strictly speaking, necroing is against the rules, but that's probably the best place to ask. You can also PM them on another forum if you can find them. We pretty much all visit other forums fairly often, I think.

If the user is no longer active, just use the card, and include a note in the set file and in the front post of your thread that the user created the card, and include an offer to take it down if they ask you to.

Darkmouse wrote:
Pichoro, you sent me an email a week or two back. If I would like to send you an off-forum message, is that the way to do it?

Yes, that works. You can also PM me at the file library (link in my signature), or at mtgsalvation's forums.

Tue, 2008-11-04 15:54
Idle Muse
Idle Muse's picture

Also, on the subject of contacting, there are often people hanging out at #magicseteditor on freenode's irc servers. If you're familiar with IRC, the server is irc.freenode.net, if you aren't, go to http://java.freenode.net and type 'magicseteditor' into the channel box, yoru username into the name box and click go. If somebody is online, they can then help you out straight away, but be aware that you can't just leave a message there for anyone to pick up, it doesn't work like that.

Quote:
What are the rules about using someone else’s posted card in a set of my own?

I can only speak for myself, but i'm perfectly happy for people to use any of my posted cards (esp. ones from the games threads which are often made up on the spot), as long as you make sure you put a Wizards of the Coast copyright in the copyright line and the artist's name in the artist credit (two things you should be doing anyway). It would also be great if you didn't claim it to be your own design later on, but I doubt that would ever be a problem anyway.

Formerly known as Lordpenguin.
Download DraftWithMSE to draft custom MSE sets!

Sat, 2017-11-18 19:59
fluffyDeathbringer
Moderator
fluffyDeathbringer's picture

This thread also seems to be attracting bots and the last activity was in 2008, so I'm locking it.

Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.

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