Token Collection

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Sun, 2008-07-13 06:01
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Well guys, for the last few days, I've been working on building a set file full of tokens. These tokens are using the Magic-New-Token frame, and use official art commissioned by WotC for the tokens in almost all cases. I've finally reached the point where I can't proceed alone. I've been working backwards through the sets beginning with Eventide, and have finally reached Mirrodin.

Tokens Whose Art Is Still Missing:
- Mirrodin 1/1 white Soldier by Paolo Parente
- Mirrodin 1/1 white flying Spirit
- Mirrodin X/X black flying Demon by Pete Venters
- Mirrodin 5/5 green Beast
- Imperial Mask Copy
- Sprouting Phytohydra Copy

Unofficial Art Tokens:
- Not sure if art for Future Sight Zombie is correct.
- Have unofficial arts for Selesnya, Golgari, and Gruul Saprolings. These are in addition to official Ravnica Saproling.

A large number of arts are credited as "Unknown". This is because many were taken from Magic Online image databases.

The file can be found here.

So; anyone can download and enjoy this; and also feel free to contribute if you know an author of a token, or have an art I'm missing. If you use Magic Online and see one of the missing tokens in a game, take note of the artist; that could help track down the art.

The card notes field tells the set for each token if I know the set. If a token is reused in a block, there isn't a second art for it. For instance, 1/1 colorless Spirits appear throughout Kamigawa block, beginning in Champions. So there's not a Betrayers or Saviors version.

I don't plan to start Onslaught block until I have Mirrodin finished. I do have some Onslaught block art stored away, though.

Sun, 2008-07-13 06:41
BoomWolf

I don't think copies have any token. that's because every card can be copied one way or another.

Sun, 2008-07-13 07:25
branch
branch's picture
Sun, 2008-07-13 12:14
Idle Muse
Idle Muse's picture

I can do scans for the demon, I think. I think I also have a few other older ones that you don't have yet.

I have a question though; I found the Odyssey 6/6 Wurm token in your set; why don't you use the old token frame for it?

Formerly known as Lordpenguin.
Download DraftWithMSE to draft custom MSE sets!

Sun, 2008-07-13 17:26
innuendo
innuendo's picture

I should have scans of all the tokens in magic from mws...They aren't all *super* high quality but they are all decent. They are also full scans so you would have to cut the pictures out. Would these help you pich? The full scans should have arist names on them.

Current Projects: Siege SCG

Sun, 2008-07-13 17:40
Shadow Ninja
Shadow Ninja's picture

What about simic saprolings?

<<<<<<<<<<<**>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm from "Boot to Your Face"
Academy for troubling Ninjas
<<<<<<<<<<<**>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[url=http://www.animecubed.com/billy/?734

Mon, 2008-07-14 02:34
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

BoomWolf wrote:
I don't think copies have any token. that's because every card can be copied one way or another.

branch wrote:
i think you're right.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/askwizards/0508
May 23, 2008

Imperial Mask Oracle Text wrote:
When Imperial Mask comes into play, if it's not a token, each of your teammates puts a token into play that's a copy of Imperial Mask.

I think you're wrong.

Now, I know, I know. I read what Del Laugel said. But that's still a token. And I'm not bent out of shape over expansion symbol or cost not being accurate on tokens; if you've got an Imperial Mask token, you should have an Imperial Mask laying around somewhere to reference for data. The point of a token isn't to have all the information, its to stand in for the creature (or enchantment or whatever).

Lordpenguin wrote:
I can do scans for the demon, I think. I think I also have a few other older ones that you don't have yet.

Any scans could be of help.

Lordpenguin wrote:
I have a question though; I found the Odyssey 6/6 Wurm token in your set; why don't you use the old token frame for it?

Later, it will be. Its just that this file is my old token file for tokens I needed. A couple days ago, I decided to drastically improve it. But I haven't gotten past Mirrodin, so I haven't messed with tokens older than Mirrodin. A happy smile

innuendo wrote:
I should have scans of all the tokens in magic from mws...They aren't all *super* high quality but they are all decent. They are also full scans so you would have to cut the pictures out. Would these help you pich? The full scans should have arist names on them.

Anything would be great. My only concern is that they be original Magic Token art; sometimes token makers can't find art and decide to just find a piece they like instead. Basically, once you get past, like Invasion, official art doesn't really exist much. Maybe a few here and there...

Shadow Ninja wrote:
What about simic saprolings?

The Simic didn't make Saproling. In fact, the Gruul only did with Ulasht the Hate Seed. That said, if you have suitable Simic Saproling art, I'd love to add it.

Mon, 2008-07-14 07:28
BoomWolf

Actually, I know you are wrong. card copies have no token because the token must contain all information included in the original, and that also means cost. even the expansion symbol matters.

To use copies you got 2 options in RL:
1-use another copy of the card.
2-use a simple token. (piece of paper?)

There is no such thing as "imperial mask copy token".

Mon, 2008-07-14 09:47
McLight

Tokens that are copies should have a Mana Cost, you should probably use the normal card template for those, just adding the "Token" to the type line.
But take a look at one of the recent "Ask Wizards" why they did choose not to make a Spawnwrithe Token.

But i did some token sets too some time ago, i'll post them when i'm back home so you can check wether i had some art / artist info you're missing.

Mon, 2008-07-14 10:26
GrazulDazul
GrazulDazul's picture

Agreed, Wizards have decided not to do tokens of things that copy, but in an actual game you need something to represent that token, surely a token card that's not quite an exact copy is better than a bead or a coin? Sure it means you need to remember that the card does actually have a mana cost, different illustrator, etc, but these are things you'd have to remember using a bead too, it just looks nicer and you don't have to turn it upside down to tap it.

Mon, 2008-07-14 12:07
Idle Muse
Idle Muse's picture

Quote:
The Simic didn't make Saproling. In fact, the Gruul only did with Ulasht the Hate Seed. That said, if you have suitable Simic Saproling art, I'd love to add it.

I think Fertile Imagination looks pretty simicy to me.

Out of ones you don't have, I have the Mirrodin Demon token and the Onslaught Insect. I'll do scans at some point today/tomorrow.

Formerly known as Lordpenguin.
Download DraftWithMSE to draft custom MSE sets!

Mon, 2008-07-14 13:20
innuendo
innuendo's picture

heres the list I have from MWS pich...

Angel, 		scourge, 		artist: Scott M. Fischer
Bear, 		odyssey, 		artist: Heather Hudson
Bear, 		onslaught, 		artist: Glen Angus
Beast, 		Odyssey, 		artist: Larry Elmore
Beast, 		darksteel, 		artist: edward P. beard, jr.
Bird, 		invasion, 		artist: Michael Sutfin
Demon, 		Mirrodin, 		Artist: Pete Venters
Dragon,		10th, 			Artist: Jim pavelec (no scan)
Dragon, 	onslaught, 		Artist: glen angus
Elephant, 	invasion, 		Artist: terese Nielsen
Elephant, 	odyssey, 		Artist: arnie swekel
Goblin, 	Legions, 		Artist: Darrell Riche
GOblin, 	10th, 			Artist: Dave Kendall (no scan)
Goblin Soldier, legions, 		Artist: Ron Spears
Insect, 	onslaught, 		Artist: Anthony S waters
Marit lage, 	10th, 			Artist: Stephan Martimiere (no scan)
Myr, 		Mirrodin, 		Artist: Wayne England
Pentavite, 	mirrodin, 		artist: greg Staples
Rukh, 		8th, 			artist: edward p. beard, jr.
saproling, 	10th, 			artist: Cyril Van Der Haegen (no scan)
saproling, 	Invasion, 		artist: jeff laubenstein
sliver, 	Legions, 		Artist: tony szczudlo
Soldier, 	10th, 			artist: parente (no scan)
soldier, 	onslaught, 		artist: ron spencer
spirit, 	Champions of Kamigawa, 	artist: hugh jamieson
spirit, 	planeshift, 		artist: john matson
Squirrel, 	odyssey, 		artist: ron spencer
wasp, 		10th, 			artist: ron spencer (no scan)
wurm, 		odyssey, 		artist: alan Pollack
Zombie, 	odyssey, 		artist: dana knutson
zombie, 	10th, 			artist: Carl Critchlow (no scan)

forgive typos please, I have fairly good scans of all the cards not noted. Does this help you much pich? If you need any scans just say the name and set and i'll host it somewhere.

Hope that helped in some way.

Current Projects: Siege SCG

Mon, 2008-07-14 13:58
BoomWolf

That spell is as much grull as it is simic, the fact simic was the only green in THAT expansion matters not. nothing ties the card to simic, besides its art-maybe. I dont think that card got a new token.

And as for "copies need tokens"-you use another card. jest fetch another imperial mask from your collection.
After all, why wont we have "tokens" for storm cards? and replicate cards? and every single card that can be targeted by twincast? get my point?

Mon, 2008-07-14 15:46
Idle Muse
Idle Muse's picture

I was looking at the art. Personally, I see no reason to make any token card beyond those that Wizards make (or would have made, given the current policy on token cards). BoomWolf's point is well-made, but in the end, this is Pichoro's set, he can do what he wants.

Formerly known as Lordpenguin.
Download DraftWithMSE to draft custom MSE sets!

Mon, 2008-07-14 18:56
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

BoomWolf wrote:
Actually, I know you are wrong. card copies have no token because the token must contain all information included in the original...

Says who? The link provided by Branch didn't say that. That's not the point of what they said at all. I know for a fact that there is no such rule; else a paperclip couldn't serve as a token. Get off it, man. Just because Wizards decided not to make an Imperial Mask token doesn't make it wrong for there to be one.

McLight wrote:
Tokens that are copies should have a Mana Cost, you should probably use the normal card template for those, just adding the "Token" to the type line.
But take a look at one of the recent "Ask Wizards" why they did choose not to make a Spawnwrithe Token.

Thanks for the polite response. I see where you're coming from, talking about using the regular frame, but to me, even with the word "Token" (which printed tokens don't have anymore), it just feels wrong.

As for the Ask Wizards, I have read it, and simply don't agree with their logic. They've missed a rather large point. If you're playing a game where you find a copy of Spawnwrithe in play, you almost certainly have a real Spawnwrithe in play or in a graveyard. It is not difficult to refer to that card if you need to know the mana cost. Its not like you have to login and go check the Oracle; its right there on your table.

Perhaps your Spawnwrithe was bounced back to your library; but surely you have one somewhere. And using an incomplete token certainly beats using a bead, paperclip, die, or buying more copies of a probably rare card so that you can use them as tokens.

That last one is just silly, and can probably lead to frustration over how many copies of the card are around. I can just imagine having a fifth Spawnwrithe in play as a token, and accidentally shuffling it into your library. That won't happen with MSE made tokens. I know you didn't propose that as a solution McLight; but BoomWolf did propose it, and it is a mistake waiting to happen.

Lordpenguin wrote:
I think Fertile Imagination looks pretty simicy to me.

Sure enough. Missed that one. If someone happens across art with that sort of style, I'd love to use it as an unofficial Simic Saproling token.

If you read this in time, save yourself the trouble on the Onslaught Insect; I have the actual art for that without frame.

innuendo wrote:
heres the list I have from MWS pich...

Unfortunately, I have arts for all of those tokens you listed. I will collect the unknown artist names from that, though.

BoomWolf wrote:
And as for "copies need tokens"-you use another card. jest fetch another imperial mask from your collection.

Yes, because we all have bottomless wallets and bank account for buying huge numbers of rare self-replicating cards.

BoomWolf wrote:
After all, why wont we have "tokens" for storm cards? and replicate cards? and every single card that can be targeted by twincast? get my point?

Because those don't make tokens. Get my point? Realistically, I see what you mean, but "stack battles" typically aren't detailed enough to require something for keeping track of spells and effects. And even then, stack contents are only temporary. Permanents are, well, permanent.

Making "spell tokens" just hasn't caught on, even among photoshoppers. I'm in no hurry myself.

Lordpenguin wrote:
BoomWolf's point is well-made, but in the end, this is Pichoro's set, he can do what he wants.

Thank you.

And I might add that I am frankly tired of defending something that I have put together and provided for the community out of kindness. I have need of maybe 12 of these tokens. Several of these use art that haven't even been photoshopped into tokens, because I dug the art out of Magic Online.

If you don't like it, delete the set and stop hassling me.

If you want to enjoy this token collection, feel free to do so.

If you want to help me further it, again, feel free to do so.

Mon, 2008-07-14 19:09
innuendo
innuendo's picture

/me sad, I did all that work for so little gain...

well glad it helped a little bit.

good luck with the project, for the record, token copies of other permanents that don't include all the information seems perfectly fine to me. You're correct, I would either a) have enough knowledge about *my* deck to provide that information if needed or B) there would be one of the real ones in play if it has a copy.

I like this set, thanks pich.

::EDIT::

this is in response to your edit, that is exactly how I feel about siege and boomwolf's posts. Sorry I got so heated about it but I didn't like having to defend myself in my own thread.

Current Projects: Siege SCG

Mon, 2008-07-14 19:25
Vinyacoire
Vinyacoire's picture

Thank you for your comments Pich, those were my exact thoughts on the posts. And just as a personal preference, unless you can cut the head out of the Simic Saproling picture, I don't think it fits...

Anyway, I think the point of this set is similar to one that I have. I have a deck that creates multiple copies of every single card in it, and it is VERY helpful to have a card token as a symbolic card (even though it doesn't have the mana cost printed) instead of umpteen upside-down cards that have no difference at all. When you have multiple things coming into play a simple token that has its name and possibly abilities is very helpful.

Mon, 2008-07-14 19:49
Idle Muse
Idle Muse's picture

Just continuing the discussion about spawnwrithe tokens, for the sake of discussion, not relating to this set; I think what wizards are trying to say is that if they DID make a spawnwrithe tokens, they'd feel obliged to put on everything because of the risk of confusing newbies who don't understand the rules. For instance if you had a card that cared about cmc, and had just got an Imperial Mask token that didn't have a manacost on it, what would you, a newbie who doesn't know about the copy rules, think was the cmc? 0, just like a normal token. So I think to avoid possible confusion, they would have to include all the extras. Pichoro is right that for people who understand, it doesn't matter that all the details are correct, becuase the original card is still around, so its ok for his set, but if Wizards were to do them, then they'd have to appreciate that not everyone understands the complexities enough.

Formerly known as Lordpenguin.
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Mon, 2008-07-14 21:27
Vinyacoire
Vinyacoire's picture

The other part of their logic seemed to be that it is pointless to put Spawnwrithe tokens into booster packs without a Spawnwrithe in the first place, which I understand, but for Pich's set, why not!?!

What Wizards was trying to avoid, along with the confusion that LordPenguin pointed out, was people having twenty to thirty Spawnwrithe (or Imperial Mask) tokens, but not having the actual card to make them effective.

Tue, 2008-07-15 23:06
McLight

Here are the Sets i did, take a look if there's anything inside you're missing

http://www.mclight.de/tc/mse/token-sets/Token-Sets.html

Tue, 2008-07-15 23:31
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Wow, McLight. I haven't looked in any of those, but that's a huge number of set files. A happy smile

Wed, 2008-07-16 02:18
Jéské Couriano
Jéské Couriano's picture

I have a few Lorwyn tokens; their illustrators are:

-White 1/1 Kithkin Soldier: Greg Hildebrandt
-Green 3/3 Beast: John Donahue

I'll update this post as I find them. I'll also solicit help from my other forum; it's got plenty of M:tG players.

Wed, 2008-07-16 02:23
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

Actually, I'm working through what McLight posted, and he might've had all of the material for me to finish mine.

But at any rate, I've got that Kithkin Soldier and Beast, Song. Thank anyway.

Wed, 2008-07-16 02:35
Idle Muse
Idle Muse's picture

OK, I went through my tokens for artist credits too:

SHM Giant Warrior - Trevor Hairsine
SHM Elemental - Cyril Van Der Haegen
LOR Merfolk Wizard - Mark Poole
SHM Spider - Thomas M. Baxa
SHM Spirit - Jeremy Enecio
LOR Wolf - Pete Venters
LOR Elemental (w) - Anthony S. Waters
LOR Goblin Rogue - Richard Sardinha
LOR Kithkin Soldier - Greg Hildebrandt
LOR Shapeshifter - Franz Vohwinkel
LOR Elemental (g) - Brandon Kitkouski
LOR Elemental Shaman - Jim Pavelec

That's just out of the unknowns in the version I downloaded. And I will scan that demon, just haven't got round to it yet. It's actually sitting on my scanner waiting Stick out your tongue

Formerly known as Lordpenguin.
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Wed, 2008-07-16 11:50
McLight

Well, i did a file for each Expansion to allow for the tokens to have the right expansion symbol.
Many sets doesn't mean too many tokens A happy smile , some have just 1 or 2.

Wed, 2008-07-16 17:15
Pichoro
Pichoro's picture

See, I decided to only do one because I figure people can change the expansion symbol. We've got a whole bank of realistic expansion symbols, and they're easy enough to change.

Sat, 2008-07-19 01:17
Idle Muse
Idle Muse's picture

OK, token for Mirrodin demon scanned at 600dpi: http://www.majhost.com/gallery/jdee/Magic/demontoken.png

Formerly known as Lordpenguin.
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