Would you be interested in a converted mana cost sort even if it didn't sort hybrids correctly? I used to draft on netdraft a lot and I used that sort all the time.

I suppose when PlayWithMSE becomes a reality, it won't be an issue anymore. But even then, I think it would still be nice to be able to export to some other formats.

As for a converted mana cost sort, that could be good, yeah. That would be a good way to "see" your casting cost curve.

Which makes me think that another more advanced idea for on down the line might be a stats feature, similar to what Magic Online has. Something to give you a cost curve, and some maybe some breakdowns by types, and perhaps a count of colored mana symbols? So you could observe some basic statistical data about your card pool, as you put it together. Of course, this might be better suited as something for PlayWithMSE, where I supposed you would be actually building a deck instead of just drafting some cards.

Like you said, a stats pane will be most appropriate when the deckbuilding section of this program gets built (whether it is part of draft or play.) It wouldn't be too hard, except maybe the total chroma thing (currently the actual mana cost isn't stored, just the colours and (soon) the cmc.

You're right about exporting though, I can't believe I didn't think of this already, what with you and innuendo chatting about apprentice here. Export to .dec will be very easy, very useful, and very soon.

curse you lp...all of these promised new features in the next commit. I can't wait!

Did you not release the version that is capable of sorting? Did I totally read that message wrong? I redownloaded this last night and mine still doesn't sort, so I think I have my answer, but I thought I'd double check.

No, I haven't released it yet. Still fixing up some things. You see the main download link on the frontpost? I'm gonna change that to "Download v1.3X" where X is the release number; you can match it up to the number in the topright of menubar on the program you currently have; When I upload a new version, that'll change, so you can tell and don't have to download the saem version again to check.

Also, fairly obviously, I'll post in this thread when I upload an update. I'll try and make it clearer when I've actually put a new version up from now on, as opposed to just made a change in the dev version.

I've decided the most requested feature by me is a computer that drafts higher rarities more often. Not 100% of the time but at least weight the list so it has say a 50% chance of drafting a rare/M.Rare, 30% chance of drafting one of the uncommons and 20% at any of the commons. Not sure how easy that would be to impliment though. Right now when I draft I see M.Rares coming up after 6 or so cards have been drafted, which makes getting a realistic draft pool tough(er).

Not sure if this is a pipe dream though and if we just need to wait for online play to get anything better than pure random AI.

Greedly little buggers aren't we! You make this fantastic program with light years more capability than anything we've seen before it and all we do is point out it's flaws and shortcomings...

/me feels bad.

It's ok to suggest things, just don't get cross when I tell you that they aren't priorities
At the moment, I understand that it's a problem that the ai can pick basic lands over mythic rares, but its a big step to write something better, one that I haven't really prepared for yet. It is on the list of things to do, and will be done before network play, but it isn't next on the list really (Appr export and intelligent sorting are).

Thanks for the compliments though I was worried it'd be like a tool that's there but no-one would acutally use it.

Not at all. Its quite useful. It probably won't hold up yet for drafting in online tournaments, cause those people get cheaters hacking programs. But I see two huge uses for this program. First, generating realistic draft decks for play against other players for the purpose of testing custom sets, and also for testing drafts of upcoming actual sets prior to prerelease. And of course, besides drafts, this could also be used to open sealed product as well. All you'd do is up the card count on all the rarities, and voila; tournament pack.

In fact, when Shards begins previewing, I think I'm going to try to keep a functional set file. Not with art (unless possible), but with proper rules text and types and all that.

Hey, I just wanted to say that this is a pretty neat program. I find it fun to use for some reason.

I am definitely looking forward to the next version though, because the main set I have has copious amounts of quotation marks in card names. I'm also really looking forward to sorting and such.

Thanks, Sientir

AFAIK, tournament packs can have duplicated commons, possibly uncommons too?

Perhaps. But this is still pretty much the best simulation of one out there now; especially if you're working with a custom set.

Update to v1.35 now available

The link on the front post has been updated, and an update summary is included there also. Currently, card names are always displayed in colours in the lists, but depending on feedback it will be possible to turn this off in the future.

As always, post bug reports and feedback on new features here.

now I can't wait to get home. Awsome news LP

So, I saw that version 1.35 is out now, so I decided to give it a try. It's a lot better! I really appreciate being able to see the images for all of my cards, and the color highlighting was really handy to quickly assess what colors were present, though I did note that it has issues identifying the color correctly of cards that either don't have a mana cost or have 0 for the mana cost (yea, I have a few weird cards like that in my set >.>). Also, it doesn't seem to select the last card in the list of pickables anymore. What I mean is, it used to select the last card when you make a pick, allowing you to easily arrow up and down among the cards, and it doesn't seem to do that anymore.

Also, I'd like to request more data in the lists (CMC, card type, and actual mana cost being the ones that seem most useful). This would help a lot in quickly assessing picks.

Finally, I would like to add that some sort of info box next to the sorting picker thingy with the currently selected sorting method would help. It took me a moment to realize exactly how it worked.

Overall, though, this is an awesome improvement. Keep up the excellent work.

Yes, the colour is derived solely from the manacost, so it won't understand if you've got rules text defining the colour instead. To be honest, I'm not planning on improving this at the moment, simply because if Twan puts a useful cmdline interface into MSE, these kind of issues will become a lot easier to fix. I don't wnat to waste my time now writing a whole complicated import when I'll just be able to write a few lines in the future.

As for the reselection, I know exactly what you are talking about and hadn't noticed any change, but will investigate. It's likely a by product of the fix that lets you click on the already-selected-card to view it in the viewer.

Again, why the hell didn't I think of this? Its so useful, since generally there is a lot of wasted space in the list at the moment, and this is the perfect solution. Depending on what I feel looks good, I will do this.

I know this is slightly confusing, but you must realise that it isn't an 'active sort', ie, when you add more cards, they just go at the end. Having a label that says "Currently sorted by colour" would just be a lie. I do appreciate the confusion though, and am prepared to do something about if other people has similar sentiments.

Thanks for your support.

Yea, I kinda figured you were deriving the color via mana cost, and I understand why you wouldn't want to actually go into the rules text to figure out what it is. Trust me, I understand that. Hopefully the command line interface will get that sort of stuff added.

Hope you can get some extra info in that list in a satisfactory way.

Here's hoping the debug demons don't attack you!

I just tried the update. Hurray! Loving it!

The update is very good. Finally you can try to play with the cards you draft!! Wonderful!

I have a request: is it possible to add other humans to the bots so that you can play on the same pc for example 3 humans and 5 computer? or 2 humans and 6 com, and so on? I don't know how this can influence the program, or if it's a too complicate thing. But it would be nice.

Thanks anyway for all the job you're doing.

I've said this before I think; when network play is written in, you'll be (probably) be able to run multiple instances of the program on one machine to this effect.

With all the updates to MSE, is there an update needed for this?

I doubt it "needs" an update; most of the templates didn't even need updates this time around. However, I would bet that the idea of updating has atleast crossed LP's mind, as he now has access to some new features in the program which he can use to better this program as well.

Yes, there will be an update to this, not to 'fix' it for the new edition (it should work just fine still), but rather to take advantage of the major inclusion in 0.3.7 that is the command-line interface. This is a big update though, so don't expect it anytime soon.

I love this little bit o programming. DwMSE's made it a whole heck of a lot easier to figure out how someone may draft a few packs...

One question, gracious and all-powerful ()LP, Is there any way currently, or will there be in the future, a way to see, after all the packs are drafted, what the other "players" drafted?

Seems like a trivial feature, but it would be cool.

Keep up the good work!

Hmm, that's an interesting idea, for the draft agaisnt the computer. Certainly not impossible. I wouldn't want to put it on the multiplayer draft obviously, but I do like the idea. Also especially useful for testing the AI

Also, i don't know if this has been touched on...

but sometimes, maybe once every 8-10 drafts with it, the following would happen:

I'd pick a card, and then it would dissapear from my CARD POOL,as well as from the pack.

this would only happen with cards that i'd pulled already in that draft, and i could find no way to get the card back. Also it would be one for one.

like i said, it would only do it every 8-10 drafts with me (and i'm taling about ending draft, shutting down proggy, restarting it.)

maybe it's just me.

And yeah, being able to test the AI would be awesomesauce.

Keep it up dude.

I'll look into it. Are you using the sort function at all when this happens?

Nope, i'm just picking a card when it happens.

Should i be using the Sort function?

Hmmm...

You shouldn't have to use the sort function its just that the sort function is a little thrown-together, and it's more likely that there would be a bug there than in the card-picking.

Huh...

I dunno then. I'm utterly baffled... oh well, such a itty bitty thing though. not much to worry about. I might be the only one getting the error.

Well, I can't replicate it, but then, I'm not using the exact same parameters as you (to save time I just made a draft with loads of packs)

I'm gonna call this problem on hold for the time being, until think of somethign that could be causing it, or someone else gets the same thing.

Just a few more qs; does it always happen really late into a draft, or can it happen early as well? Is you computer fairly small in terms of RAM? It could be that you are running out of space (it stores card images in memory for fast access, but this takes up a lot of room. I've put some safeguards in place to catch it when that happends (and empty the cache), but it might be something I missed)

I don't know if it's possible to do:

having the list of the card set you should give a number that would affect the draft priority to each card (it could be the number of the pick so from 1 to 15 or simply a number that affects randomness: the AI would pick the card with the lowest number or random if tie)

This could be a good start, even if I don't know how difficult is to implement it into the program.

P.S.:have you seen the wizard's draft utility (available only on monday)?

There already is a priority variable like you suggested I just haven't implemented a way of saving those variables between drafts, so the ai can't learn the good cards as yet.

About the wizards draft util; I was initially worried that it would suddenly become the preferred online draft program, and muscle this out, (even though it doesn't do custom), though when I first used it a couple of weeks ago, I laughed. Sure, it looks pretty, and the Hints are better than I could do atm, but only only draft a week? No multiplayer? lol.

You might be on to somethin' LP.

I'm running 512 mb though, This thing runs Elite Force 1 on VERY HIGH mode (all graphics on full) without any problems (Remember 2000-2001 ish game)

but i dunno. May have something to do with it.

But to your questions,

It usually starts early in the draft, but it has done it as late as last pack. (out of 3) or 5th pack outta 6.

It's not a problem that deviates from my using of the program though.

Is there a thread for Play With MSE?

No, since PlayWithMSE is still in development and hasn't been released yet. Once I move into beta testing then i'll create a thread for it where people can post ideas and feedback.

Can I offer a suggestion? Make it so that you have an option to disable seeing your picks, similar to how real drafts are carried.

You mean hide your previously picked cards? You should just be able to drag the divider between the two windows.

Update bulletin; optimisation fixes put in place for playwithmse mean that its possible that version in the forseeable future will have the option to have small card images rather than a list of names. More like mtgo, I think, but it's been a while since I payed to draft online.

Question: why is it restricted to Magic sets only? I can't see anything different with drafting other games, so I assume it's to do with tying it into the display files - correct?

Edit: in case it's not clear, this is a "how big is the problem" question not a heedless moan. Of course, I don't have any Magic sets yet, but that only means I can't test the drafter.

It is restricted to Magic sets at the moment because internally it only understands the rarity structure for magic cards.
However, since this info can now be included in game files, it is possible that non-magic games would be easy to support (at least to some extent).

There are more pressing issues to be addressed, such as online play, but it is on my list.

Ah, I didn't think of that. I agree with your priorities completely.

When drafting The tokens and Reminder cards are still counted as regular card, I am not sure if this was already addressed or not.

This is not addressed in the current version because the current release has no way of differentiating. If you wish to use tokens and rulestips, I suggest you give them the 'special' rarity (rarity can be changed on the rulestip in the top right corner).

The next release will fix this problem, and hopefully also fix split cards, which display weirdly at the moment.

oh ok thank you

It's OK, i'm glad to see people are still downloading and using it.

For anyone I haven't already told via PM, IM, or email, here's my general stance towards development at the moment: I haven't actually got time. In a few weeks, I break for christmas, and it's likely the christmas break is going to give me enough time to get the basic version 1.40 released, which will act as a platform upon which I can build more functionality. It has been a long time coming, and you won't see many changes on the surface, but 1.4 represents a significant internal code rewrite regards the way cards are loaded and accessed (ie, through the mse cli).

The upshot of this however, is that i'll be in a much better position next year to start adding new features, like online play (yes, it is coming!) and a better AI, and also possibly drafts that work for 'any' game (theorectically, assuming it is formatted correctly.

Also, another benefit of this work is that significant portions of it will be shared code with PlayWithMSE. Now, this is obviously of less priority to me (since you can technically use Apprentice, shitty though it is, for custom sets, fairly easily), but needless to say, it is in the pipeline, and I hope I can release at least a 'technical demo' before Easter. Strangely enough, PlayWithMSE's first real release will probably more or less coincide with the addition of DraftWithMSE's online play, because again, significant chunks of the connection code can be generalised.

Thanks for everyone who's sticking with me on this one, and sorry I haven't been pro-active in getting the next update released recently.

Hey all, I've been gone a long time. My computer had several meltdowns and I got sucked into playing Sims 2. So I'm putting MSE back on this computer. I have also put DraftMSE back on, but I'm having problems with it. When I load a MSE file, it's (draft) is not exporting any pictures of any of the cards. So naturally, draft is not working. I just get that "card not found" image for everything. Like I said, been gone since last october, is there a conflict between the new MSE and DraftMSE? Am I doing something wrong? My new operating system as vista, if that makes a difference.

Are you using the latest version of both? I'm on Vista, and pretty sure everything works.

oddly enough, I erased all the files DraftMSE created today, and reopened the set files, suddenly they work. So I am not sure what caused the problem, but it has gone away now, so...... oh well.

Very good. Looking forward to giving it further workout.

Rather large bug:

I had uploaded my set into DraftWithMSE a few weeks ago, and tested it out. Then, about a half hour ago, I tried uploading the newest version of my set into it. For one reason or another, instead of replacing the old files in DraftWithMSE with my new files, it replaced the new files with the old files from the DraftWithMSE folder. Luckily, one of the backups (the one in the DraftWithMSE folder, oddly enough) still contained the updated set. I tried it again a few minutes ago, and it worked. Any idea what might have caused that?

Oh, and while I'm posting here, I might as well say that some of the time generic cards called 'mythic rare' pop up in the draft when I have the mythic rare percentage at 0 (might be when I have it at higher percentages too, not sure). Any idea why that's happening?

Great program overall, though, and glad to hear that a PlayWithMSE program is in the works.