Card of the Week Contest #162: In the name of Salamanca!

continued...
Thu, 2017-04-06 09:36
thehuw
thehuw's picture

@The5lacker: Thanks for your critique.

With regard to your entry - I think this'd be a lot cleaner, and perhaps even slightly fairer, if the second ability just added Green mana symbolGreen mana symbol and you dropped the third, since as-is it feels a bit crowded. It'd be functionally quite similar: there are very few mana rocks these days that produce more than one mana, and those that do are probably not in need of the bump. This change would make it so that, if you want double mana out of your lands and rocks, it has to be green, but I think that might actually be a good thing - this has been used to balance out cards like Crypt Ghast by making the ramp they offer a bit more limited.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
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Thu, 2017-04-06 12:08
Mahx Michael
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Thanks for feedback. Updated entry now (at the same location).
Render will be up later.

Thu, 2017-04-06 13:48
The5lacker
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@Yoshi: More of a "Why are wildebeast radishes" wat.

@Vunik: You clearly did not understand the Enchantment Creatures of Theros. You can't slap on "Creature" with no effect because creatures can inherently attack and block, and inherently have a power and toughness, which Enchantments don't have. Enchantments, on the other have, inherently have... nothing. They do, exclusively, what their rules text enables them to do. You can have a vanilla creature. You can't have a vanilla enchantment. Meaning if you add creature to an enchantment, you've changed how it functions, because it can now attack and block. If you add enchantment to a creature, you've changed nothing, because it can still attack and block and, unless the enchantment part comes with something enchantments traditionally do, you've changed... nothing.

But I know you won't actually bother reading or considering any of this so please, go back to crying and nursing your precious ego. I'm sure that's how you become a better designer. Definitely.

@Daij_Djan: Don't think that's a symmetry you need. I dunno.

TheHuw: But then it wouldn't benefit other colors of mana, which was half of the point owing to it being Phyrexian Green. Other colors get to use it, green just uses it best. The point of comparison isn't Crypt Ghast, it's Zendikar Resurgent.

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Thu, 2017-04-06 14:15
fluffyDeathbringer
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I'll stick with the hand exchanging despite shenanigans, I think. It's meant to be a flashy and weird mythic, I'll forgive myself for leaving in that shenanigan potential, taking into account that the other Trees also already have it.

I gave it a 3 mana symbolBlue mana symbol activation cost though.

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Thu, 2017-04-06 14:28
Gorgonzola
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Lemonlopes.

Render

It's second ability means squishing it for some juicy mana. Ehh...

I just dont understand why people pay thousands for a piece of cardboard.
Why just don't play some casual? Gee, it isn't even fun to play with, and especially against.

Thu, 2017-04-06 19:09
HaSuOrbs
HaSuOrbs's picture

Let the chaos fill your soul, changeing mind is our goal so that noone can us control.

Thu, 2017-04-06 16:19
thehuw
thehuw's picture

@HaSuOrbs: A couple of minor pointers:

  • You can't target cards in your hand, since it's a hidden zone - you can just replace "target" with "a" and it'll be fine.
  • The flipside innately taps for green for being a Forest, so having the extra ability that lets it tap for green and white is a bit weird. I'd just cut the Forest typing.
  • This card doesn't really feel especially white. I don't think it's a break or anything, but it could easily be mono-green; I'd cost it at Green mana symbolGreen mana symbol.

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Thu, 2017-04-06 16:52
Vunik
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@The5lacker You know, I was considering actually taking your criticism and applying it, but your arguments have devolved into ad hominem, and I won't let you think that works. Sorry, but

You said wrote:
so please, go back to crying and nursing your precious ego.

is not the way to make me want to ever consider your argument. In fact, it probably one of the worst ways to do so. If you don't want to argue, fine, but don't attempt some cheap shot on your way out.

If you really must know, I completely understood that putting "creature" on an enchantment gives it three things: attacking, blocking, and susceptibility to creature removal. However, for 99% of the card in the Theros block, the first two things are completely moot. I'm certainly not going to attack with Agent of Erebos, not when its a 4 mana 2/2. In fact, some of the only enchantment creatures that are worth using as creatures are the ones with bestow - and those, funnily enough, don't function like enchantments when they're creatures, the key to your initial critique. The only thing making bestow creatures enhantments, again funnily enough, is theme. They would function just as well, if not better (as things like Naturalize and Aura Mutation wouldn't effect them), as normal creatures.

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Thu, 2017-04-06 17:04
marioware2
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I've updated my Plant slightly to try to remedy the t1-no-drawback play. It got a bit wordier, but eh. It's at least functional now...!

Thu, 2017-04-06 17:18
The5lacker
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@FluffyDeathbringer: Cards are more valuable than life, just a reminder.

@Gorgozola: Feels a bit weak for 4 mana honestly. Also, what is it with fruit critters?

@HaSuOrbs: Even ignoring some of the wording issues, there's absolutely nothing white about this card outside of the fact that the flip side happens to produce white mana, and all lands with the subtype Forest innately have (Tap symbol: Add Green mana symbol to your mana pool.)

@Vunik: So basically you're admitting that my advice is sound and the only reason you aren't taking it is I hurt your feelings, thereby proving my entire point. Gotcha. Thanks for confirming what I already knew.

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Thu, 2017-04-06 17:28
WindyDelcarlo
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@The5lacker: There is no need for this hostility. You can give advice without a harsh condescension in your writing; you did it earlier in this very conversation.

Thu, 2017-04-06 18:11
donovan_Du_Bois
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@The5lacker - Misfortune says hi. My card doesn't even make counters so I don't see the problem here. There are plenty of commanders who don't do anything on their own, and you didn't give me any useful feedback for changing the card.

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Thu, 2017-04-06 18:22
sdfkjgh
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@Yoshi: cleaned up the templating a bit, also raised p/t to 3/3 (hope you don't mind, as a 2/2 for cmc5, even with its abilities, seemed a bit underwhelming, especially for a rare). Here you go:

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Thu, 2017-04-06 18:36
thehuw
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@Donovan: Cards older than quite a few of this site's users don't really set a good precedent.

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Thu, 2017-04-06 18:47
marioware2
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Hey, sdfkjgh - you probably shouldn't edit someone else's entry for them, even when preparing a render. Always feel free to make any suggestions you have, but the final say goes to the card's designer.

Thu, 2017-04-06 19:10
HaSuOrbs
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Edited A happy smile

Let the chaos fill your soul, changeing mind is our goal so that noone can us control.

Thu, 2017-04-06 19:18
TrollHammer
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(have a not-so-great render, will upload if I can find my account)

Maze of Roses 2G
Creature-Plant Wall U
Defender
Maze of Roses gains Deathtouch if B was used to cast it.
Attacking creatures blocked by Maze of Roses do not untap during their owner’s following upkeep.
Maze of Roses can block any number of attacking creatures.
1/3

Just trying something simple to see if my head is on straight.

Fri, 2017-04-07 01:23
SilverSoul.SB
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The flavour is Nissa healing Zendikar After what the Eldrazi did.

Please tell me where you would rate this on the 4 walker scale of Jace, Garruk, Chandra.

Fri, 2017-04-07 03:20
Sylphiod
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I'll entry a card from my set #slumber that should be released soon.

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Fri, 2017-04-07 03:28
Vunik
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@sylphoid I legitimately thought that said "Legendary Creature - Happy Plant" for a second.

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Fri, 2017-04-07 04:20
ZephyrPhantom
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We ought to make a happy little painting of it. Winking smiley


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Fri, 2017-04-07 04:57
Sylphiod
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@Silver below garruk above Chandra like how nissa wants to be with Chandra Winking smiley

@vunik that's the exact opposite of what this tree would be.

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Fri, 2017-04-07 10:37
Mahx Michael
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Should I remove the mana cost of the mana ability on my entry? Or maybe I should keep the cost, and just not have to tap the dragon? Is it cost enough that I have to tap plants?

EDIT: Never mind, somebody already mentioned that tapping the plants was a cost itself, so it think I'll make it that as well as tapping the dragon itself.


Updated entry and added render.

Fri, 2017-04-07 14:27
Gurfle
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@5lacker-
Great to see you back.
Anyway, I'll respond to feedback.
-It's a plant because it's part of the challenge. A BloodBloom is something that takes blood for power, in this case, mana. You sacrifice it because it's a piddly little flower that can only be used once. Admittedly, it's a bit awkward as a creature, so I am considering making it some sort of enchantment/instant/sorcery thingy.
-My wording is off; never claimed it to be perfect, so my bad. Will update with "lost 4 or more life" or something akin to it.
-It cares about people losing life (probably will update to "an opponent") because otherwise, whoops I suddenly have a giant thingy and free mana with no effort.
-It's 4 mana because I was concerned about balance. Looking back on it, it could probably cost Black mana symbolRed mana symbol or 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbol because Uncommon.
-I'd appreciate you not to be call my things a "hot mess", but that's a personal thing so do whatever

@Vunik-
"BloodBloom" looks nicer to me, I don't know why, just kinda does- also see above about wording and costing.

Overall- will update later. Much later, but later.

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Sun, 2017-04-09 08:58
Sheron
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Well, here goes nothing:

Vincent loved his new "yellow house" at Arles, but felt lonely and isolated. Thus, once spring came, he had the idea of inviting his friend Gauguin to join him, and even fancied of establishing a community of artists together. As he anxiously waited for his friend to arrive, he painted his beloved sunflowers, reflecting his liveliness and optimism during those days. He then decorated Gauguin's room with such paintings, using them as a sign of friendship and welcome, but also of support of Gaugin's artistic style.

Spoiler:

edit: tweaked it a bit, thanks to @marioware2 and @Kagerowrs

Fri, 2017-04-07 16:57
marioware2
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@Sheron - things don't make generic mana anymore, they make colorless! Needless to say, this should tap for Colorless mana symbol.

Sat, 2017-04-08 07:39
Kagerowrs

Not sure I'm allowed to recycle the design, ignore if it is not allowed. (Contest #106)

Tree of Lamentation 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Plant Mythic Rare
Defender
If combat damage would be dealt to Tree of Lamentation, prevent that damage and put that many -1/-1 counters on it instead.
Tap symbol: Tree of Lamentation deals X damage to target creature or player where X is number of -1/-1 counters on Tree of Lamentation.
0/13

I can't really think of any good idea for plants...

Sat, 2017-04-08 05:54
replicase

Aesthetic Graftage Green mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Enchantment Rare
When Aesthetic Graftage enters the battlefield, choose a color.
Forests you control have "Tap symbol, Add one mana of the chosen color to your mana pool."

Some druids take the artistry of their work literally, making the trees themselves as canvas.

Sat, 2017-04-08 08:59
Kagerowrs

Warning: Below recommendations are from guy who stopped playing magic for while, do not take them at the face value.

@Pixi-Rex: Blue seems to be unrelated from any of its effect, in addition- I think card might be little bit too complex and specific to be a common.
@marioware2: My complain actually goes to mechanic for being oddly specific... Card itself is fine.

@vunik2: It is indeed pretty pushing (two uncommon level abilities) to put that ability into uncommon, but as for power level, check the link below.
http://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3Aattack+o%3Aput+o%3Atoken+t%3A%22creature%22&v=card&s=cname
: Also, Incarnations tends to have some kind of one-sided global abilities (Only exception being Personal Incarnation), which doesn't seems to be the case for that card, I would recommend using elemental instead, which is also featured in Lucent Liminid.

@thehuw: Assuming that wording works as intended, it is really powerful 1 drop. If that card is supposed to be in a set, I would recommend it to be pushed into a rare slot.
@Gurfle: Capitalization of part 'Bloom' feels bit weird. Creature is fine, I think you might want to make it as 'Tap symbol, Sacrifice ~:' effect and reduce the cost of actual creature instead. As it now, it is in slightly bad place, At turn 4, if you can fulfil the condition to sacrifice the creature and trigger the effect, you need very expensive card that can net you win instantly - but there are too much risk, such as needing tutor (Or relying on luck to get both win card and the bloodbloom), broken deck flow (Not only mana curve, but bloodbloom is dead card outside of very specific condition - unlike Channel), extreme match up problem (Which can disrupt both dealing damage, or having enough life to spend.), and so on. Failure means instant losses as you would have likely spent at least 12 life (+6 mana) trying to net a win, and got nothing. Exception on formats with 40 starting life. (Such as commander.)
@spazlaz: Question to always ask is that, if you would play a deck, is there any reason not to play this card? The fact that it is a legendary to prevent 4-of is not really a penalty when it sacrifices to create generate forest token, which is unaffected by legendary clause.
@finofashark: Considering Blood Artist, abilities does not require white, and cost seems to be too high even considering self-replication.
@Nhoj2307: Does this need to be a rare? It seems to be a worse Journey to Nowhere...
@Inverness: I don't know why it would not have the defender, nor why would it still have cmc of 4.
@fluffyDeathBringer: I would assume Commander ban.
@jacqui-pup: How about red tree then? Switch toughness with power?
@donovan_Du_Bois: Based on what I remember, only noncreature permanents that tends to take flat +1/+1 counters as noncreature permanent are lands (Specifically, Llanowar Reborn), and probably none for -1/-1 counters. I'm not sure counting permanent instead of just creature would worth it in that case. Also, you probably don't need blue for draw effect on that card.
@Sheron: Flavorful, but I feel that downside might be too strong.
@replicase: Card effect is specific enough that compared against Prismatic Omen, you could probably push the cost further. Even to just Green mana symbol.

If no comments were made, it simply means that I had no comment to make about that card.

Sat, 2017-04-08 16:50
Curse of Swine

@5lacker I have edited my card, added defender and wall as that does make more sense. It is a 1/1 creature, easiest thing in the game to neutralize/remove, and I wouldn't expect it to just block 10 times in a game. I was looking at it more as a build around in a deck with a lot of fight effects or other shenanigans.

Sat, 2017-04-08 19:44
amethyst-marie

Haven't done one of these in a while, but I was making an Angel set and had a plant themed angel. I've always loved Lignify; you can probably tell.

Sat, 2017-04-08 21:21
Gurfle
Gurfle's picture


Post updated, edits here for convenience:
-Reduced cost and life lost clause
-Touched up wording a bit

Things I'm considering:
-Making it a/n instant/sorcery/enchantment thing

@Kagerowrs
You know, you're right, "Bloodbloom" looks better.
Also, that is the point of the card- it has restrictions so you can't just win and cast a big thingy- losing life is a punishment but sometimes it really doesn't matter, like the philosophy I go by: "Unless my life total is 0, it doesn't matter." again, personal tastes. Thanks for the feedback, I considered it, and it's good advice for "Someone who hasn't played in a while" either, so no worries there.

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Sun, 2017-04-09 02:22
donovan_Du_Bois
donovan_Du_Bois's picture

A different approach to a similar build.

Zyra of Thorns Embrace 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Plant Zombie Rare
At the beginning of your draw step, draw a card for each creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it.
Whenever a creature you control dies, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
3/6

Render

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Sun, 2017-04-09 03:37
Angelic_Bovines
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Sun, 2017-04-09 06:32
Trace100
Trace100's picture

Succession the name of the process a forest goes through after being burned and regrowing.

Burning Succession 1 mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Sorcery Rare
Deal 3 damage to target creature or player. Then search your library for a Forest or Mountain card and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library.

Sun, 2017-04-09 21:26
spazlaz

new entry since other was kinda busted, but not really, but w/e. it was boring

old

Sun, 2017-04-09 18:27
bazzboda

@Trace100, just to mention this should be phrased as "Burning Succession deals 3 damage" rather than "Deal 3 damage".

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Sun, 2017-04-09 18:36
donovan_Du_Bois
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@spazlaz This card doesn't obey any of the rules of card design. Good concept, but it doesn't actually work.

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Sun, 2017-04-09 18:57
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
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Rose Lotus 0 mana symbol
Artifact Mythic Rare
Tap symbol, Sacrifice three Plants: Add three mana of any color to your mana pool.
Within a pitch-black garden, it is cultivated to revive ancient horrors.


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Sun, 2017-04-09 19:32
spazlaz

@donovan: it's fairly obvious that you only have access to the current season, which is just an in game counting device.

Sun, 2017-04-09 19:58
ZephyrPhantom
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I think donovan's main issue is that it introduces a completely new set of rules just for this one card.

That being said:

@ donovan - I think spaz is implying he'd make a new format just for this "4 seasons" mechanic, if that makes sense.

Personally I think it's a novel idea and while it's a little tough to sell on just one card this card does an okay job of doing so.


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Sun, 2017-04-09 20:31
sdfkjgh
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@Spazlaz: if you were to continue with this design (and you should, as it's quite interesting), you should prolly use an m dash to separate the season names from their effects, as a colon has VERY definite rules meanings in Magic.

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Sun, 2017-04-09 21:30
spazlaz

@all

Thanks for the comments. The idea was from some idea someone had a long time ago for a "picture to card" contest. The idea is yes, it would be part of a whole mechanic for a set.

Updated with aesthetic changes

Sun, 2017-04-09 22:03
donovan_Du_Bois
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@spazlaz - Do you plan to do anything more with the idea? It has me interested in a rotating seasons mechanic.

My first set Primer in Purple needs feedback!
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Mon, 2017-04-10 00:58
bazzboda

@spazlaz, just to make sure but the seasons change even if no card is on the battlefield, and all your cards that address seasons count the same one? If so I would put the advance the seasons text in brackets. Further with extra turns effects, would an ability activated on another players turn care what season it is for them, or do they only care about what season you are in?

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Mon, 2017-04-10 01:25
Yoshi
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@sdf: Those edits are fine. A happy smile

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Mon, 2017-04-10 11:37
Pixi-Rex
Pixi-Rex's picture

@spazlaz: I just thing that design is amazing. I cloud see this as a cycle of 5. I just love it. A happy smile

Mon, 2017-04-10 12:58
Fermat

Mon, 2017-04-10 12:24
Pixi-Rex
Pixi-Rex's picture

@Fermat: HAHA. Thoughtseize or Thoughtseed.

I would drop the discard part on the 2'ed ablilty, because you still need to play mana cost to cast the card. otherwise you use 2 cards to play one card. I dont know if that is okay as you searched for the card you really want to play. also the payment

"discard a card, exile ~:" looks really weird as I can't find any other card that has that payment.

Mon, 2017-04-10 12:25
thehuw
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@Fermat: I get that flavorfully this is a great fit for Green mana symbolBlue mana symbol, but mechanically it's a tutor that can get anything, and that's a black effect.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Set Huwb
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