MSE Modern - Rewritten (A New Process to MSE Modern Design)

Wed, 2017-03-29 23:44
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

So, for those of you who aren't randomly in the know about everything going on with MSEM, we're (we being "the MSEM Council that looks over sets coming in") looking at a big change. A big rewrite, if you want to say it that way. We've been asking about new policies for the last couple weeks, and how to go about the sets that don't fit those guidelines already in MSEM, and we ended up deciding that the best answer is a hard reset.

So, for MSEM as a format (how this affects the MSE Magic plugin in and of itself it still up to debate), the reset will mean that nothing is legal. Don't worry, until we have sets gathered, looked through, and other such suchness to have them ready, MSEM is staying as is. With this change, we'll rely on you, rather than us, to decide whether the set is going to try to be in MSEM, as which point you will need to send it to one of us to have it gone over to make sure it fits these policies.

If there are any questions or objections, feel free to let us know.

The MSEM Council wrote:
  • WindyDelcarlo
  • Timespiraled
  • Marioware2
  • HerziQuerzi
  • Jacqui-pup
  • ThisisSakon
  • Daij_Djan

Policies wrote:
1. Card Art Policy. All cards in a MSEM-legal set should have art with appropriate artist credit. Sets with cards without art will not be accepted into MSEM.
2. Set Symbol Policy. All sets in MSEM will have a unique set symbol to identify the cards. Any set without a custom symbol will not be accepted into MSEM.
3. Appropriate Art Policy. All art in a MSEM-legal set will be passed through a judging panel (the same people who determine whether a set is quality enough to be in the format) and any art deemed inappropriate for any reason by the judges will either be changed or the set will not be accepted into MSEM.
4. Reprint Policy. Any card at uncommon or common rarity will be fair game for any other designer to reprint in their set, with proper creator credit. This allows for the less flashy format staples to be reprinted, rather than amassing a large sum of cards that are functionally similar but not exactly the same.
5. Name Policy. Cards that share a name with a card already existing in MSEM will need to be changed or the set will not be accepted into MSEM.
6. Mechanic Policy. Mechanics sharing a name with a mechanic already in MSEM will need to have their name changed or the set will not be accepted into MSEM. Mechanics that are functionally identical to MSEM-legal mechanics will need to be changed to match the pre-existing mechanic or the set will not be accepted into MSEM.
7. Functional Similarity Policy. The MSEM judges will pass through the set and any card that serves a very similar role to a card already existing in MSEM will be strongly urged to be changed to a reprint of that card in MSEM so as to not overload the format with specific effects. This will be done only to cards that might have an effect on the format itself (so typically not limited-only cards).
8. Overpowered Card Policy. Any card deemed too powerful for the format will be prompted to change. Cards with no obvious nerfs (complex mythics, for instance) will be banned. Cards with possible nerfs will be discussed with the card creator, who can choose to either change the card or simply leave it banned.
9. Syntax Policy. Not every syntax error is caught before a set is entered into MSEM. Any syntax errors missed will need to be changed, but are not ground for removal from MSEM.
10. Flavor Text Policy. Inclusion of flavor text is at the discretion of the designer. Lack of flavor text is not grounds for removal from MSEM.
11. Quality Policy. After all other policies have been confirmed, the judging panel will assess the set for quality, which includes but is not limited to: Confirming there are no color pie breaks, correcting syntax, and checking for power level of potential roleplayers. All sets will need to pass a quality test before they are accepted into MSEM.

Wed, 2017-03-29 23:59
CanterburyEgg
Head Administrator
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Going to add that in Liz's stead, Daij_Djan will be part of the voting committee for approving new sets.

Thu, 2017-03-30 00:06
Cajun
Cajun's picture

Quote:
Name Policy. Cards that share a name with a card already existing in MSEM will need to be changed or the set will not be accepted into MSEM.
That's a bit intimidating. Is there an easy way to get a string of the card names and make an MSEM name check exporter?

Cajun's Explorations - Cajun Style Templates - High Noon Reloaded

fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Thu, 2017-03-30 00:16
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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I know there's one for real MTG but I don't know how it works. Anyone with coding knowledge able to help here?

Thu, 2017-03-30 00:28
Cajun
Cajun's picture

The base code is pretty simple, and as long as the names can be opened in one column in an Excel file, saving that as a deliminated .txt and a replace all should get the name list. Actually might be easier than I was expecting.

Cajun's Explorations - Cajun Style Templates - High Noon Reloaded

fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Thu, 2017-03-30 00:28
CanterburyEgg
Head Administrator
CanterburyEgg's picture

@Cajun: Don't stress out too much about that -- we aren't just gonna stick a big red "DENIED" stamp on your set if it violates the Name Policy. We'll just tell you which cards need name changes (provided your set passes all the other guidelines). That being said, we'll take a look and see if we have an easy way to name check so you don't have to go through the stress of being denied at all!

Thu, 2017-03-30 00:29
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

Well, we can get the first column for sure. We use txt files in the first place and I transfer them regularly between Google Sheets and Notepad

Thu, 2017-03-30 01:16
Cajun
Cajun's picture

It's not stressing, solving problems is what I do, and someone's gotta pour through the thousands of names when an exporter can do most of the work.

Aight, got it working in Excel. Don't know if Google Sheets has similar
Take your Name column and trim it down to just the names. Ideally each side of DFC/Splits have their own entry but that's a lotta tweaking.
Select all of them by clicking the first or last name and shift-clicking the other.
Copy that, then in B1, right click to Paste Special, Transpose, this will move the data to the A row.
Copy that into Notepad, or save this long file as a Text(Tab delimited).txt, then open that in Notepad.
Copy the tab space, then use replace all to replace it with the pipe, |
Either make a copy of magic-namecheck, or use the 'template without names' file and replace the three string-blocks of name|name|name in the magic-namecheck's export-template file with the new one.

Cajun's Explorations - Cajun Style Templates - High Noon Reloaded

fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Thu, 2017-03-30 01:23
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
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Seems all good. So for the functional reprint thing you mean things like "we don't want 5 different versions of Lightning Bolt? Stuff like that?

So I guess I can take this opportunity to fix a few things in my sets that should be fixed then huh?

Check out my updated set hub.

Thu, 2017-03-30 01:50
ThisisSakon
ThisisSakon's picture

@Guitarweeps: essentially that, yeah. We saw that the format had about infinity Mana Leak variants and decided that something needed to be done about it.

And don't worry about getting things done soon! The MSEboot is still far from finalized, and we'll be sure to keep you guys updated as we think of things!

Thu, 2017-03-30 02:14
CanterburyEgg
Head Administrator
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@Cajun: I've got a good name-checker going now, thanks. I expect I'll be taking charge of making sure that there are no names being duplicated, but it's always good to be able to check before your set is submitted! A happy smile

Just as a reminder, in case it gets lost in Wind's message up at the top -- We are now accepting submissions for sets to be added to MSEM. This includes sets that were already in it. Everything has been scrapped from the format, and we are starting from scratch. If you want to be in the format, send a set file our way!

Thu, 2017-03-30 04:04
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Question: If we update a set like Ashura for instance and submit it. And say I update a few wording issues and development issues. Will those updates also by present in the community standard that the set is in as well?

Check out my updated set hub.

Thu, 2017-03-30 04:12
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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They should be as a result of being in the same plugin. Sets are separate from formats

Thu, 2017-03-30 05:55
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

Until further notice, just send it to any one of us and we can bring it up with the rest of the Council. This may change later, but until then I've clarified in the OP

Thu, 2017-03-30 05:56
Timespiraled
Timespiraled's picture

I'm glad we're moving forward to make MSEM more enjoyable and lower the entry barrier. This will lower the amount of "clones" (#manaleaks), give us a good hard reboot to fix broken cards and make an altogether more manageable format.

Looking forward to being part of this project and team, and can't wait to be back and playing with you all in 2 weeks!

Something powered this way comes.

Thu, 2017-03-30 11:44
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
Daij_Djan's picture

Timespiraled wrote:
Looking forward to being part of this project and team

Agree with you here! A happy smile

And yeah, we should probably provide a card name as well as a mechanic (name + what they do) list once everything reboots.

Thu, 2017-03-30 12:37
ThisisSakon
ThisisSakon's picture

A mechanic list is a great idea! It would help with #6 greatly

Tue, 2017-04-04 20:17
ThisisSakon
ThisisSakon's picture

An (about as automated as it can get) automated message has been sent out to any user with a set currently in MSEM reminding them of the coming overhaul

Tue, 2017-04-04 20:22
Cajun
Cajun's picture

Another thought, is there going to be any attempt to weed out duplicate arts, for tournament cards or otherwise?

My resub should be in a few days, working on cards and templates.

Cajun's Explorations - Cajun Style Templates - High Noon Reloaded

fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Tue, 2017-04-04 20:24
CanterburyEgg
Head Administrator
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I'm not worried about weeding out duplicate arts. It's hard enough to find art that fits for your sets as is, so if you're using art for your mythic that someone else is using for their mythic I see no reason to make one person change.

Edit: Though we will be looking for actual M:tG art on non-reprints.

Tue, 2017-04-04 22:14
isaac the awesome
isaac the awesome's picture

What if there was a tab in the polls for voting for what sets get in. Also to what extent can sets be included. Can they be custom sets posted on other websites?

I'm not so concerned with duplicate artwork. More concerned with duplicate names.

Tue, 2017-04-04 22:01
Vunik
Vunik's picture

@isaac I think that the idea isn't for MSEM to be a popularity contest, or even a contest of quality - that's Featured Sets, and even than they're not really that either. MSEM is supposed to be a collection of the best sets the community has created, and any set that fits the criteria can make it in. Putting it to a vote I feel would remove that idea that anyone's set can make it in.

Vunik's Neverending Hub

TWOK is the best!

Tue, 2017-04-04 22:17
isaac the awesome
isaac the awesome's picture

"Best Sets" is objective and it really breaks down to what you i guess you call "popularity contest". I think it just is a more democratic path that may draw more interest for the format if other setbuilders have a say in what is included in the format.

Of course only sets that fit the criteria will be included for consideration.

Tue, 2017-04-04 23:03
voltaic-qui
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
voltaic-qui's picture

But why would the official constructed format of Magic Set Editor accept sets which were not made with or posted on Magic Set Editor?

formerly jacquipup

"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game."

Wed, 2017-04-05 00:48
ThisisSakon
ThisisSakon's picture

I do not think submitted sets should be fan voted because of quality reasons, and because MSEM is not a forum set's end goal but a bonus.

Wed, 2017-04-05 01:03
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

The way we have it, sets aren't voted "do I want this or not". It's "does this fit all criteria?". If it were fan-voted, it's very possible sets could just not get in that fulfill all criteria. As well, if a set isn't accepted, we can tell the creator what would need to change, another thing we can't do if we outsource the voting process.

Sat, 2017-04-08 20:59
Cajun
Cajun's picture

Speaking of, how much is getting recoded? There's a fair few scripts missing and a handful of incorrect ones, do you want those called out or is that being reset too?

Cajun's Explorations - Cajun Style Templates - High Noon Reloaded

fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Sat, 2017-04-08 21:00
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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Literally everything is being reset and recoded.

Sun, 2017-04-09 01:18
Korakhos
Korakhos's picture

Oh, honorable council, I'm not sure if I should post this here but I got a reminder so I'll go for it. I'd like the following four sets to make it into the plugin:
Core Set K2015
Khaliz-Dorahn
Aftermath
Tides of War

I've added art to all of them so I have that previously uncovered basis covered.

Sat, 2017-04-29 01:20
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Alright so I have a question that I would like to pose. I think we can all agree that the verbiage "his or her" is silly and should just be "their" and it can add a lot of text to milling and other effects. I think wotc reason for keeping it is silly. So what if we just went ahead and used "their" in these sets despite that?

Check out my updated set hub.

Sat, 2017-04-29 01:35
Vunik
Vunik's picture

I feel that the terminology used is personal preference. If you want to do it WotC's way, you can use "his or her". If you want to do it in a way that's more inclusive, then use "their". I'm in the former camp, as I want my cards to read exactly like WotC, but I completely understand the reasoning behind wanting to use their. Neither way is really right or wrong.

Vunik's Neverending Hub

TWOK is the best!

Sat, 2017-04-29 01:58
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

Yeah I am only bringing it up because if MSE Modern is going to enforce wotc verbiage then "their" is wrong.

Check out my updated set hub.

Sat, 2017-04-29 05:41
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

There's solid reasons for both. WotC's wording makes it clearer that it's not just a male-only game where "their" makes it more inclusive to agender/multigender/somewhere-in-between people. The same way we won't enforce not using tribal (assuming that's the only problem), enforcing his/her or their won't happen.

Wed, 2017-05-24 15:26
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

Alright. We've finally done it! (and only almost a month later than we thought we would ) Thanks to all your submissions, we now have a starting list for MSE Modern. We've got 12 sets ready, and it's a brand new open format out there:

Sets Legal in MSE Modern wrote:
[*]Tides of War
[*]Goliaths of Nangjiao
[*]Surging Tide
[*]Spark of Revolution
[*]Pyramids of Atuum
[*]Ophorio
[*]Mious
[*]Khaliz-Doran
[*]Aftermath
[*]Imperial Legacies
[*]Core Set K2015
[*]A Tourney at Whiterun

The name Imperial Legacies may confuse you because it was never announced on the forums. Timespiraled designed that set once we started looking into MSE Modern, sent it in, and it got checked over. It's got some spicy stuff to take a look at when deckbuilding!

The plugin is not yet complete, but we are working hard to get all sets ready!

Fri, 2017-05-26 19:44
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
Guitarweeps's picture

So question: how does a sets "Masterpieces" accompaniment fit into MSEM?

Check out my updated set hub.

Fri, 2017-05-26 19:57
CanterburyEgg
Head Administrator
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Masterpieces are by definition not legal for the Standard format - this will carry over into our Modern as well. Feel free to print whatever you'd like as a Masterpiece.

Fri, 2017-05-26 19:59
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
WindyDelcarlo's picture

Yeah. Masterpieces being MSEM legal would _heavily_ limit the masterpieces you could print, so no.

EDH on the other hand...