Card of the Week Contest #161: Holy Shinto!

continued...
Fri, 2017-03-31 21:16
Daij_Djan
Moderator
Daij_Djan's picture

To be fair, even though I'm a Christian myself, I have absolutely no issues with using the Abrahamic God on a Magic card. I personally consider taking religion too seriously to accept such things as the probably biggest issue religion has in general - but this might be just me (so no offence, please).

Wizards actually dropped Kiora's surname for such a reason, yes - but I don't think Asthanius will try to sell his card to millions of people all over the world either (or at least I hope so? Winking smiley ). Also this is not the only card here featuring a god or deity of a still living religion - just the best known one.


Hiatus is finally over!

Fri, 2017-03-31 22:16
donovan_Du_Bois
donovan_Du_Bois's picture

@ Vunik - I disagree. Because no one can interact with it, I think it's balanced. It's got great flavor, it's cute, and it's almost harmless.

My first set Primer in Purple needs feedback!
My second set Gentrification is in the works.

Fri, 2017-03-31 22:24
Yoshi
Yoshi's picture

@Ash: That's at worst, way better Fog Bank much of the time. Which is a problem.

My Battle Board: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/9469
Sets in progress:
Wastes of Muetar - Spoilers in progress, temporarily delayed cause of RL.
DvG - Mechanical Design in progress.
WPaSWYCSaP - Design beginning soon.

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Fri, 2017-03-31 23:10
HerziQuerzi
HerziQuerzi's picture

Quote:
reducing the Abrahamic God to a piece of cardboard trivializes the faith of approximately three billion people.

In a challenge about making cards based on religious deities? Monotheism shouldn't get preferential treatment just because it has the most followers.

Phasing
This phases in or out before you untap during each of your untap steps. While it's phased out, it's treated as though it doesn't exist.
Set Hub

Sat, 2017-04-01 01:53
Vunik
Vunik's picture

WARNING: Large wall of text ahead! TL;DR - I like the card, but Miracle should probably be bumped up to anywhere between 3 mana symbol and 5 mana symbol generic mana. Never mind, looked larger in the post screen...

@donovan Sure, on its own it's fine mechanically (flavor is a different story - that one really depends on your opinions on the Abrahamic God), but I don't believe that you'd run only this. You'd run four of Always Watching, some of Berserker's Onslaught if you're planning for a long game, maybe a Collective Blessing and any number of cards with bolster. Then you'd put in all sorts of library-fixing cards, and make sure you can guarantee casting it for it's miracle cost. I personally think that a potential uninteractable 2/2 with vigilance on turn three is a little powerful, then if you can consistently manage to buff if (either with more anthems or temporary effects like Collective), it becomes really powerful. Assuming you play your hand right, it could come down as a 5/5 uninteractable for 0, and that's without me thinking up and play testing a brew. A little much, no?

(Yes, I realize that this example is johnny, win-more, and best-case-scenario, but in something like this with "Protection from everything" and "Miracle 0 mana symbol", I'd probably assume the best case scenario, since someone could probably rig it to always be the best case scenario.)

I like the concept of the card, but having the potential cost of 0 is too much IMHO. A better miracle cost would be from 3 mana symbol to 5 mana symbol (I'd like 5 mana symbol because of symmetry, but that's irrelevant), that way it at least costs something. Free cards are by far the hardest things to balance. Placing a cost on it, even if it becomes inconsequential in later turns, would make it a much better card, again, IMHO. I like this, but when a spell has the possibility to be cast for 0, it should probably be somewhat balanced around that 0 cost.

Vunik's Neverending Hub

TWOK is the best!

Sat, 2017-04-01 02:48
donovan_Du_Bois
donovan_Du_Bois's picture

@HerziQuerzi - Word

@Vunik - Your example is pure best-case-scenario, but I can understand. I don't think the Miracle cost needs to be over 1 or 2, because all of the combo pieces cost 3 more more anyway so it won't slow down the player. If the Miracle cost is 4 or more, there wouldn't be a reason for it to have Miracle in the first place.

My first set Primer in Purple needs feedback!
My second set Gentrification is in the works.

Sat, 2017-04-01 02:49
Vunik
Vunik's picture

@donovan I wouldn't say 4 or 5 is meaningless - it becomes significantly easier to cast, and actually reasonable on turn 4 or 5. Unless you have perfect land draw or you're running mana dorks, you probably couldn't cast it on turn 5. My biggest problem that it can be free, and I don't think anything, even a 1/1, with protection from everything should have the possibility of being free. There's too big of a possibility of abuse with it. In all honesty, I believe @marioware's suggestion is the best change that could be suggested. Yes, the flavor of miracle is really cool, but Miracle 0 mana symbol screams overpowered.

(Heck, I'd even go for something like "Miracle - Tap all creatures you control", to represent the ideology that devotion has to be given for miracles to be granted.)

Vunik's Neverending Hub

TWOK is the best!

Sat, 2017-04-01 02:49
bazzboda

Hopefully this works.

Yawgmoth's Presence 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Legendary Enchantment Mythic Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card and get a poison counter. If you have 3 or more poison counters transform ~.
Black mana symbol, Lose a poison counter: Target non artifact creature gets -1/-1 until the end of the turn.
////
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Legendary Artifact Creature - God Mythic Rare
Skip your draw step.
Black mana symbol, Get a poison counter: Draw a card.
1 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol, Lose 5 poison counters: Return target creature card from a graveyard to the battlefield under your control, it becomes an artifact in addition to its other types.
4/4

First sides first ability is a modified phyrexian arena, and can represent the player being corrupted by phyrexia. The second is a combination of old phyrexia's -1/-1 abilities and new phyrexia's non artifact creature hate.
For the creature side the first ability is a more modified yawgmoth's bargain.
The final ability is using the oil you have accumulated to complete a dead creature.

I would love some feedback.

Sat, 2017-04-01 06:34
Asthanius
Asthanius's picture

How would people feel about it having Miracle 1 mana symbol or 2 mana symbol? I do want this to be able to be cast early. Additionally, I want to keep "indestructible" because I actively hate the idea of it dying to Wrath of God.

Sat, 2017-04-01 06:49
bazzboda

@Asthanius, I would suggest cutting the first and last ability, the first is pretty needless beyond making it a less likely draw, and the second is the main mechanics related concern people have, plus it doesn't seem very flavourful. I would have thought convoke would be a good accelerator, and works considering it could be seen as a form of prayer. Even though it is a 1/1 I must agree with others that giving it too much protection is not interactive and thus wouldn't be that fun, I think indestructible is enough. Maybe make it bigger to compensate, maybe a 4/4 would be pretty balanced.

Sat, 2017-04-01 08:08
Giawulf
Giawulf's picture

@jacqui-pup

Yeah sorry haha wasnt sure how to hide the old one so I just replaced it. Probably could cut the first strike/ deathtouch and just reword the first ability to be more like gravepact, so its more streamlined.

Sat, 2017-04-01 09:28
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

When I posted my render, I realized something was missing, but I couldn't really put my finger on what it was... I forgot to use the god frame.
Unfortunately I do no longer have access to my computer, so I had to use MTG.design to make one. The new render is published now, but since MTG.design is stupid, I had to make it Legend Enchantment Creature, in order for it to fit in the type field. I'll see if I have time to replace it when I come home tomorrow...

Sat, 2017-04-01 17:16
Asthanius
Asthanius's picture

@bazzboda: I like the convoke idea. I'll try that. As for the second ability, what do you mean? I think that a god having Miracle is incredibly flavorful. I can definitely change Miracle to Convoke, though (this means that the "end the turn" ability has no reason to be there anymore, as well). As a final point, the first ability was actually meant as a balancing tool. In non-singleton formats, you can't rely on it like you can rely on, say, Thalia or a Planeswalker. Also, it adds to the "no other gods" aspect of it. I see where you're coming from, though.

Actually, hold up. I think I have an idea...

EDIT: Okay, I updated my entry to the following-

Lord of Lords White mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Legendary Creature - God Mythic Rare
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for 1 mana symbol or one mana of that creature’s color.)
When Lord of Lords enters the battlefield, exile all other Gods, then end the turn.
Indestructible
Miracle 7 mana symbol (You may cast this card for its miracle cost when you draw it if it’s the first card you drew this turn.)
3/3

I gave it Miracle 7 mana symbol so that it can be played in any deck, as long as that deck is willing to immediately end the turn in exchange for an indestructible 3/3 for 7 mana symbol. 7 is considered a divine number, as it's 1 above 6. Also, I think 7 mana symbol with Convoke is fair enough.

Sat, 2017-04-01 17:38
Inverness
Inverness's picture

Took me a while to come up with something I am okay with.

Pity Party

Sat, 2017-04-01 18:39
donovan_Du_Bois
donovan_Du_Bois's picture

@Asthanius - Miracle is pointless on this card. The miracle cost is higher than the normal casting cost, and it has convoke. No one will ever play the miracle cost for this.

My first set Primer in Purple needs feedback!
My second set Gentrification is in the works.

Sat, 2017-04-01 19:03
Vunik
Vunik's picture

@Inverness Who is that referencing?

Vunik's Neverending Hub

TWOK is the best!

Sat, 2017-04-01 19:41
Asthanius
Asthanius's picture

@donovan: Except the Miracle cost is in generic mana, whereas it otherwise costs White mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol. And you can still Convoke to pay for the Miracle cost. I don't see the issue.

Sat, 2017-04-01 20:30
donovan_Du_Bois
donovan_Du_Bois's picture

@Asthanius - Anyone playing this card will always choose to cast it normally instead of for it's Miracle cost. It will almost always be easier to cast it normally, so Miracle is pointless. Anyone running this card will be running all five colors anyway and creatures can convoke to pay color costs, making casting this card for it's regular cost far easier than casting it for it's Miracle cost.

My first set Primer in Purple needs feedback!
My second set Gentrification is in the works.

Sat, 2017-04-01 21:31
bazzboda

@Asthanius, I must agree with donovan, it is unlikely to be used, and it seems to be why it has the end the turn clause, which would discourage people using it in its intended deck. Which would be a mana fixing heavy deck that can get it out faster, or recast it easily with convoke. Thus I think it would be better to reinforce its niche by dropping the end turn clause and raising its power toughness by one, rather than try making it available to decks that wouldn't use it, while hurting decks that would.

Sat, 2017-04-01 21:37
Asthanius
Asthanius's picture

A'ight, new design. I still wanted to show off some "miracle" aspect, so I went for something else that helps cast spells.

Lord of Lords White mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Legendary Creature - God Mythic Rare
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for 1 mana symbol or one mana of that creature’s color.)
When Lord of Lords enters the battlefield, exile all other Gods.
Indestructible
The first spell you cast each turn has convoke.
3/3

EDIT: Forgot to remove the miracle frame.

Sun, 2017-04-02 00:03
marioware2
Moderator
marioware2's picture

If you still want Miracle, just make it Miracle 5 mana symbol so that you can basically just spend any color mana to cast it.

Sun, 2017-04-02 01:26
ThisisSakon
ThisisSakon's picture

Technically a goddess from Moana, but still a goddess

Te Fiti, Mother Island 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Legendary Creature - God Mythic Rare
Islands you control have, "Tap symbol: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may seach your library for a basic land card, reveal it, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
2/4


Sun, 2017-04-02 15:01
sdfkjgh
sdfkjgh's picture

Lemme guess; the frontpage Yugioh thing's for April Fools, right? That's pretty funny.

Check out Hive block here.
Hey, check out my blog!

Sun, 2017-04-02 16:45
elmdor
elmdor's picture

#verifyvenuz

Spoiler:
Yung Venuz 3 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol
Legendary Creature -- God Mythic Rare
Haste, double strike
Whenever Yung Venuz deals combat damage to a player, you may pay 1B and 1 life. If you do, draw a card.
1U: Return Yung Venuz to its owner’s hand.
3/1

Spoiler:

"All science is either physics or stamp collecting." [Ernest Ruthenford]
"In man we all pray!" [Tony Hadley]

Sun, 2017-04-02 18:13
ThisisSakon
ThisisSakon's picture

Render ahoy!


Sun, 2017-04-02 19:04
Pixi-Rex
Pixi-Rex's picture

I thought I saw visions, A Yu-Gi-Oh card on the front. then Yugi. I was like. Shocked no the site turning away from MtG into a yigioh site.

Oh. I get it now. April Fool. Big smile

Sun, 2017-04-02 21:37
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

I'm really sorry! I didn't realize the word I used might be considered offensive. I was king of grumpy after trying for an entire hour to make the program work properly, while I was in the middle of the mountain with terrible internet connection. But I'm actually really gratefull to mtg.design for making the oportunity to make a high quality magic card render while not having access to your computer! And the reason why it is so bugged is because it is still under development, so I actually get it. I guess my frustration go the best of me, I'm really sorry.

Also, I've put up a complete render now, so problem solved Thumbs up

Mon, 2017-04-03 00:36
fluffyDeathbringer
Moderator
fluffyDeathbringer's picture

jacqui couldn't make a render, asked me to make one.

My hub.

I like proofreading and editing, so if you want your set text's language, formatting and syntax touched up, I'm available.

Mon, 2017-04-03 09:44
Fermat

For those not familiar with the lore of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Alduin is part of the Nordic pantheon. He was the first dragon and firstborn of Akatosh (the supreme deity of Tamriel and Dragon God of Time).

As for the firebreathing, I gave him a +3/+0 variant because his fire breath in the game is a Thu'um (or shout), a mechanic in the game in which ancient words of power create magical effects. These are split into three single-syllable draconic words. Firebreathing is "Yol Toor Shul." You could stop at any point in the Thu'um for a weaker effect, so I likened it to "Yol" = +1/+0, "Yol Toor" = +2/+0, and "Yol Toor Shul" (the full Thu'um and the only one Alduin ever uses, because he doesn't use weak firebreath) = +3/+0.

As for the extra turn, several heroes, knowing they could not defeat Alduin (who was to consume the world), created a new Thu'um to weaken him, then use an Elder Scroll to send him forward in time, essentially buying the world some time until the Dovahkiin arrives.

Mon, 2017-04-03 09:51
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
ZephyrPhantom's picture

@ Fermat - That's an interesting portrayal, but there's no getting past the fact his second ability is undeniably blue by modern standards. Perhaps make it 3 mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlue mana symbol instead?


Spoiling monthly, attempting to conclude by Dec 2017
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Mon, 2017-04-03 16:38
Daij_Djan
Moderator
Daij_Djan's picture

This thread is now closed, the poll can be found here.

And here's the next challenge!


Hiatus is finally over!