Card of the Week Contest #161: Holy Shinto!

continued...
Tue, 2017-03-28 18:50
fluffyDeathbringer
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Updated the entry by making Soker cost 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol. Thank you both for the advice.

Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.

Tue, 2017-03-28 20:11
Aarhg
Aarhg's picture

Hmm, after thinking a bit more about my card, I'm beginning to wonder if it's going in too many directions. It's a top-down design, no doubt about that, but none of its abilities connect in any way.
Should I compromise the flavor a bit to make the card look better from a mechanical perspective? It's a tough one. I'm enjoying the challenge though. A happy smile

Tue, 2017-03-28 20:21
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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I think your card is weirdly specific in a bad way.

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Tue, 2017-03-28 20:24
Aarhg
Aarhg's picture

Yea, that's what I'm thinking as well. I might try something else altogether. There are so many gods to choose from, I could probably find one that's a little easier to translate into a Magic card.

Tue, 2017-03-28 20:30
SilverSoul.SB
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@Ziolang

As your entry is a mountain it needs (T: add R to your mana pool.) as reminder text.

Tue, 2017-03-28 21:01
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

@Ziolang
Ehhh... So true! Sorry, it was automaticly added by MSE, so I didn't pay attention to it. I'll fix it now.
Thanks for notifying me A happy smile


If someone encounters the same problem as I just did, try replacing your devotion to keyword with a new one that has <one_word> as parameter instead of <action> (by adding a new keyword with the same name, you will overwrite the old one).
The only downside with this is that it will no longer work with two colors. While one lets you have one color and as much other text you like, the other one lets you have any number of colors, but everything you write afterwards will make a mess out of it...
EDIT: Reminder text is usually not displayed when there are more than one color anyways...

Wed, 2017-03-29 00:21
ganzzert

How is my fist post on the site? I feel like there's something I'm missing with Cozcotl, but I keep thinking he's fairly costed for what he does without protection. Maybe I should drop flying?

All hail the Bird-Tribal Army!

Wed, 2017-03-29 01:25
ZephyrPhantom
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@ ganz - Visually, same problem as sdj's - white text on light background isn't exactly ideal to look at. Given that it's Quetzalcoatl though, it'd be a little hard to not give them flying.

IMHO you should replace Offering with a modified keyword that is mostly the same but doesn't let colored mana be reduced - as is Quetzalcoatl seems like they'll just either be a slightly decent beater or something that seeks to be a free spell as quickly as possible. I think that Black mana symbolGreen mana symbolWhite mana symbol is a pretty fair price to pay for that mass reanimation advantage.

That being said, welcome to MSE! A happy smile


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Wed, 2017-03-29 01:46
Aarhg
Aarhg's picture

Made a new entry that works and looks better. It's Nidhogg, the dragon that gnaws at the roots of the world tree. I made the conscious decision to focus on that primary characteristic when designing the card, and I think it turned out pretty cool.

Nidhogg the Spiteful

Nidhogg the Spiteful 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Dragon God Mythic Rare
Flying
Nidhogg the Spiteful’s power is equal to the number of land cards in all graveyards.
Whenever Nidhogg attacks, destroy target land defending player controls. That player may search his or her library for a basic land card, put that card onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle his or her library.
*/5

Wed, 2017-03-29 23:40
donovan_Du_Bois
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((Updated below))

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Wed, 2017-03-29 03:26
Ziolang
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@Silver Soul: Mythics do not need reminder text. Rares can sometimes bypass them. Basically, for the sake of text space, I chose to forgo reminder text, as the point of reminder text is to, well, remind of things.

Edits made to my entry. Only a couple typo fixes.


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Wed, 2017-03-29 07:45
Leviathan

Chinese mythology, specifically Taoism, features many gods that were once people and were granted immortality. I chose to explore Xuanwu, the dark deity. His story is particularly interesting. I went with transform as a nod to the deity's humble beginnings, and kept an upkeep cost as a nod to paying homage.

Xuanwu the Butcher 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Human
Deathtouch
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may exile three black cards from your graveyard. If you do, transform Xuanwu the Butcher.
3/2

Xuanwu, Dark Immortal
Legendary Enchantment Creature - God
Indestructible
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may exile three black cards from your graveyard. If you don't, sacrifice Xuanwu.
Pay 5 life, Tap symbol: Create a legendary 6/6 black Demon Turtle creature token with trample and a legendary 3/4 black Demon Snake creature token with deathtouch.
6/6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanwu_(god)

Wed, 2017-03-29 08:07
Endoxo_Kynigos
Endoxo_Kynigos's picture

Updated my entry to be Jund (Green-led) and have a more counterplay-centric ability.

Wed, 2017-03-29 15:13
Yoshi
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Amagaq, Lupine Trickster 2 mana symbolBlack mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Legendary Creature - Wolf God Mythic Rare
Lifelink, trample
When ~ dies, exile it.
Whenever a creature attacks alone, return ~ from exile to the battlefield. It fights that creature.
Those that hunt alone are bound to be the hunted.
4/4

Amagaq is an Inuit trickster and wolf god, known for hunting those foolish enough to be out at night.

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Wed, 2017-03-29 18:58
sdfkjgh
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@Zephyr: I'm not quite sure which ability you're suggesting I change. Could you be a bit more specific by writing it out?

@donovan: Welp, looks like I know who I'm voting for! Ps:

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Wed, 2017-03-29 21:56
Mahx Michael
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Well... You would also have to give the squirrels flying

Wed, 2017-03-29 22:29
spazlaz

@donovan_Du_Bois: I'm pretty sure your card is completely busted. For 4 mana you get an indestructible enchantment that gives you a 1/1 whenever anyone taps a forest. And it turns into a 5/5!!! I mean an enchantment without indestructible that did that would be at least 5 mana.

Wed, 2017-03-29 22:54
Aarhg
Aarhg's picture

@donovan_Du_Bois: As Ratatoskr is a messenger and traveller, I would probably try to have his card reflect that in some way, instead of being a big squirrel generator.
And as spazlaz mentions, nerfing it certainly wouldn't hurt.

Wed, 2017-03-29 23:43
donovan_Du_Bois
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Updated to be more messenger-y

Ratatoskr, Emissary of Gods 2 mana symbolGreen mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Legendary Enchantment Creature - God Mythic Rare
Indestructible
As long as you control less than ten Squirrel creatures, Ratatoskr isn’t a creature.
At the beginning of each player’s draw step, that player draws an additional card.
Whenever a player draws a card except the first one he or she draws during his or her draw step each turn, create a 1/1 green Squirrel creature token.
5/5

Render

My first set Primer in Purple needs feedback!
My second set Gentrification is in the works.

Sat, 2017-04-01 15:24
Gurfle
Gurfle's picture


old

Text version:
Ginnungagap, the Void 6 mana symbolColorless mana symbol
Legendary Enchantment Creature - God Rare
Indestructible
As long as the number of colorless mana symbols among permanents you control is less than 5, ~ isn't a creature. (Colorless mana symbol is a colorless mana symbol.)
5 mana symbol, Tap symbol: Exile another target permanent. Activate this ability only if Ginnungagap is a creature.
10/10

Edits:
Updated wording
Made 6 mana symbolColorless mana symbol instead of 5 mana symbolColorless mana symbolColorless mana symbol (Gods usually only give themselves one devotion per color)

(Will update render when I get a chance and my wording is confirmed by others.)

No idea if it's good or not, doesn't matter because we're not gonna win anyway because it's based off of Norse Mythology (And while I'm aware Ginnungagap isn't a "God", it's a powerful force that is Godlike in nature) which a lot of people are doing because it's the most gone to after Greek/Roman/Egyptian, but feedback is welcome, asked for, and appreciated.

Devotion to colorless also probably works because there is a difference now between colorless (Colorless mana symbol) and generic (1 mana symbol, 2 mana symbol, 3 mana symbol, etc.) mana.

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Thu, 2017-03-30 01:03
Vunik
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@Gurfle, Unfortunately, at least in cannon MTG, it has been confirmed that devotion to colorless can't work within the rules. (Although, I disagree with that judgement, personally, so if you want to ignore it, I'd personally wouldn't care.) Also, you don't have to say Ginnungagap's (man that's a weird name...) full name and title in the activated ability, since you've already referenced the whole thing once. I believe typing @ in the rules text does this automatically, but I'm not sure.

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Thu, 2017-03-30 01:17
Cajun
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I think the "issue" with devotion to colorless is X mana symbol counts as 1 no matter what X is, but it's easy to define devotion to colorless only caring about Colorless mana symbol specifically.

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Thu, 2017-03-30 02:22
Angelic_Bovines
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@Cajun That would be the sole correct way to define colourless devotion. In mana costs, X mana symbol and 1 mana symbol have never referred to colourless mana.

Thu, 2017-03-30 03:01
donovan_Du_Bois
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@Gurfle - Unfortunately, Devotion to colorless wont work because Devotion asks for a color and colorless is specifically not a color.

My first set Primer in Purple needs feedback!
My second set Gentrification is in the works.

Thu, 2017-03-30 03:01
Cajun
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They are mana symbols without color though.

Cajun's Explorations
I make templates sometimes
fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Thu, 2017-03-30 03:43
donovan_Du_Bois
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@Cajun

700.5. A player’s devotion to color is equal to the number of mana symbols of that color among the mana costs of permanents that player controls.

202.2a The five colors are white, blue, black, red, and green. The white mana symbol is represented by White mana symbol, blue by Blue mana symbol, black by Black mana symbol, red by Red mana symbol, and green by Green mana symbol.

202.2b Objects with no colored mana symbols in their mana costs are colorless.

107.4c The colorless mana symbol Colorless mana symbol is used to represent one colorless mana, and also to represent a cost that can be paid only with one colorless mana.

Devotion specifically cares about colored mana symbols and Colorless mana symbol is specifically not a colored mana symbol.

My first set Primer in Purple needs feedback!
My second set Gentrification is in the works.

Thu, 2017-03-30 03:51
ZephyrPhantom
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Since I saw devotion to colorless posted in response to a another one of me challenges on another forum thread: Personally, I think it'd be best if this particular devotion was restricted to Colorless mana symbol symbols to prevent confusion. In the case of a higher profile competition like this one including notes about modifying the Comp. Rules might be wise.


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Thu, 2017-03-30 04:03
Yoshi
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Honestly, I feel like you could probably change that rule to some degree? I think a miniature change/alteration of that sort would be plausible; see for example, changes to madness from previous sets to SOI. And plus, the design space opened up by it greatly outweighs the slight rules complications. Devotion to Phyrexian mana or devotion to Snow mana would be pretty cool too.

Working on an alt-color pie at the moment. Check me out in forum games!
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Thu, 2017-03-30 04:10
donovan_Du_Bois
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I'm not saying it's bad design, I'm saying it's against the rules as written. A new, less restrictive, keyword would be needed. Colors are very specific as far as magic rules are concerned.

My first set Primer in Purple needs feedback!
My second set Gentrification is in the works.

Thu, 2017-03-30 05:11
Cajun
Cajun's picture

@donovan_Du_Bois: that was aimed at Angelic Bovines, you snuck in a few seconds ahead of me. I know devotion doesn't work explicitly as written but that it would be easy to add "A players devotion to colorless is equal to the number of Colorless mana symbol mana symbols in permanents they control" as 700.5b or w/e

Cajun's Explorations
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fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Thu, 2017-03-30 15:12
Giawulf
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Here's my entry:

he's based on Vidar, the norse god of Forest, Vengeance, and Silence

Vidar, God of Vengeance 3 mana symbolBlack mana symbolGreen mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Legendary Creature - God
First Strike, Deathtouch
Whenever a creature you control dies from an opponent’s spell or ability, destroy a creature that player controls.
2 mana symbolBlack mana symbolGreen mana symbolWhite mana symbol,Tap symbol :target player cannot cast noncreature spells this turn.
4/4

I wanted to embody both of his attributes (revenge and silence) so that's why he has a counter ability, despite being nonblue. Plus it kinda fits with green and black. Because pf that though, wasnt sure if I should make him 5 or 6 drop.Perhaps I should make him tap for the counter? I'm not sure.

EDIT: I updated and changed around my entry around. Countering spells just isn't in the GB pie lol. Made him ABzan and gave it a stax effect instead.

Thu, 2017-03-30 06:16
ZephyrPhantom
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Wording fixes:
"Counter target instant or sorcery spell."

"Whenever a creature you control targeted by an opponent’s spell or by an ability of a permanent controlled by an opponent, destroy a creature that player controls."

Honestly, raising cost and causing something to tap is not going to justify a counterspell in a color that's not supposed to get a counterspell. The closest you can probably get without breaking the boundaries is Dosan the Falling Leaf, which has an effect that tends to appear more in White mana symbol (Silence, Grand Abolisher.)

Given that, I strongly suggest you change the ability to something else.


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Thu, 2017-03-30 06:23
Giawulf
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@zephyrPhrantom I'll have to change the wording. Doing this while half asleep haha.
And true, it is tricky to justify. But their are a few black counterspells such as Dash Hopes, and a green on or two such as Avoid Fate. Perhaps if I change it to "counter target instant or sorcery spell that targets permamnants you control" or something to that effect, so its similar to avoid fate. I kinda wanna keep the counter ability, because it fits the theme of "silence" and cause its kinda of interesting to play with some off color abilities.

Thu, 2017-03-30 06:30
ZephyrPhantom
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Time Spiral block is the exception that proves that rule, doubly so since Planar Chaos's whole point was to color pie bleed. If you really want you can just make the ability Dash Hopes + Avoid Fate, but IMHO it's not very graceful design and I'd rather see an interpretation of silence that does fit in Black/green mana symbol's normal standards.


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Thu, 2017-03-30 06:44
Giawulf
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Fair enough. I'll have to work on it then and see what I can do with it. Maybe if I splash blue in and make him sultai colors, that can work. But iuno, might just rework the counterspell ability out all together and replace it. Thank you!

Thu, 2017-03-30 11:59
Neottolemo
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My entry is based on the Sumerian god Enki, later known as Ea to other civilisations. Enki is the chief water god and the god of intelligence, crafts and civilisation. He created humanity, so, of course, he's a trickster god as well Big smile Goats and fish are among his symbols, and they combine to form the Capricorn. He feigned to agree to the Great Flood that was decided by other Gods, but he warned humanity and protected his creations from it by ordering a pious king to build an arc so humans could escape it.

Render

Thu, 2017-03-30 15:43
Pixi-Rex
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Based on the Aztec God Quetzalcoatl.

Entry

Thu, 2017-03-30 15:47
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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@Glawulf: Zephyr is wrong. Green mana symbol gets noncreature hate and White mana symbol gets Silence effects, which are distinct from counterspells because they allow you to respond by casting an instant. Vidar's triggered ability is literally wonky Grave Pact. Which is odd because... a 4/4 first strike deathtouch is good enough on its own, why does it have a tap ability and a triggered one with no real synergy?

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Thu, 2017-03-30 16:06
ZephyrPhantom
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Just to be clear, the original ability was "Black mana symbolGreen mana symbol: Counter target instant or sorcery spell." I know Bramblecrush and co. are things but I'm pretty sure a repeatable counter on a stick in Black mana symbolGreen mana symbol is going to raise some eyebrows.


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Thu, 2017-03-30 16:56
sdfkjgh
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Thanks to @Vunik & @ZephyrPhantom, changed mana cost fr 2WB to 2WU. http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/13759#comment-294945

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Thu, 2017-03-30 17:00
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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NEVER MIND I didn't realize the render had changed and thought you were being snarky.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Thu, 2017-03-30 19:50
Gurfle
Gurfle's picture

@Colorless devotion (aka people who responded to that)

Right, I'll just change the wording to one like Metalwork Colossus when I get a chance to update the render. And @Vunik, with the wording change I will redo it so it's name only appears once as it only references itself by name.

"As long as the number of colorless mana symbols among permanents you control is less than 5, ~ isn't a creature.(Colorless mana symbol is a colorless mana symbol.)
5 mana symbol, Tap symbol: Exile target permanent. Activate this ability only if Ginnungagap is a creature."

Or something along those lines.

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Fri, 2017-03-31 12:06
Mahx Michael
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Render's up!

Sat, 2017-04-01 21:37
Asthanius
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Lord of Lords White mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Legendary Creature - God Mythic Rare
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for 1 mana symbol or one mana of that creature’s color.)
When Lord of Lords enters the battlefield, exile all other Gods.
Indestructible
The first spell you cast each turn has convoke.
3/3

EDIT: Third design

Fri, 2017-03-31 16:59
thehuw
thehuw's picture

@Asthanius: Yeah, um... let's not. Progenitus gets away with pro-everything by being very, very difficult to hard-cast. This is not only half the mana cost, but it's more resilient, and occasionally castable for free, which... I cannot fathom how a creature that can come in off the top of your deck for no mana and blanks almost every form of removal is even slightly a good idea.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Set Huwb
They/them pronouns, please.
Praise Vectron.

Fri, 2017-03-31 17:11
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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On the one hand, even if we ignore that you've made a 1/1 pro-everything for zero mana, reducing the Abrahamic God to a piece of cardboard trivializes the faith of approximately three billion people.

On the other hand, it dies to Nausea, which from a Sartrean perspective is strangely apropos. So uh, tradeoff.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Fri, 2017-03-31 18:31
donovan_Du_Bois
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@Asthanius Honestly I like it. It's antigod-god. It would be fun in commander.

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Fri, 2017-03-31 20:18
Asthanius
Asthanius's picture

Yeah, I was expecting feedback along those lines, and I do want to address it. First, I believe that being a 1/1 that can't be buffed (without using global effects like anthems) that also can't be played in multiples makes it much more balanced that it would be otherwise. I honestly believe that it's as fair as, if not more fair than, True-Name Nemesis. As for the trivialization with cardboard, I'd like to call the jury's attention to every non-religious piece of media containing the Judeo-Christian god ever (for example, The Simpsons and Marvel comics).

Plus, the flavor of the card having Miracle is basically too good to pass up. That, and casting it with Miracle causes the turn to immediately end, so you can't do anything on that turn.

Fri, 2017-03-31 21:05
Vunik
Vunik's picture

It's still way too good - you can't play multiples of most legendary creatures (not without Mirror Gallery effects), and the possibility of anthems are too potent. If you miracle this card, its ridiculously good, as its a 0 cost 1/1 that your opponents can't interact with, not without mass wipes or untargeted removal.

Also, quoting the Simpsons as proof isn't a sound argument - it's understood to be a satirical show and concept. Magic isn't satirical, and could be found extremely offensive. There's a reason Kaladesh didn't include any references to Hinduism or Buddhism: a living religion is a really sensitive topic. It's why we'll never see a Hindu or Buddhist based set. As jaqui said, it trivializes the beliefs of all those who follow that religion.

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Fri, 2017-03-31 21:15
marioware2
Moderator
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As little as I care about this representation of the Abrahamic God, you don't get to choose what offends other people @Asthanius. If other people are saying that they're offended by your card, then either change it or accept that you won't get their votes. If what they're saying is "other people will probably be offended by this", then take it with a grain of salt until someone actually has a problem.

As for the card, I'd suggest a pseudo-miracle effect rather than actual Miracle.

Lord of Lords White mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Legendary Creature - God Mythic Rare
A deck can't have more than one card named ~.
Protection from everything OR indestructible
When you draw ~, you may reveal it if it's the first card you drew this turn. If you do, exile all other Gods.
5/5

Note that I pumped the stats, since representing God as a 1/1 seems... weird? Also pro everything and indestructible should NOT be on the same card, so I'd say choose one.

Of course, like most other criticisms and suggestions on here -- take this with a grain of salt. This is just my interpretation.