Card of the Week Contest #137: A Bitter Pill

continued...
Wed, 2016-10-05 13:58
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

Now that I Think Twice about it, I think I'll go for Guess Twice, while I think Blue mana symbol is a fair price considering the fact that the card might be only trouble instead of actually giving you a proper profit. While Diabolic Pact is would only be useful if the opponent had a creature worth paying 3 life each turn for, and then I would just get Corrupted Conscience instead, because it's worth it (Too bad the card is locally banned in the area I live)

Wed, 2016-10-05 23:52
yuccalyptus
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Reckless Alchemist Blue mana symbolRed mana symbol
Creature — Elf Alchemist Rare

Noncreature spells you cast cost one mana of any color less to cast. (This doesn't reduce generic mana costs.)
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, discard a card.

2/2

"What safety precautions?"

Render

Edit: is this too much of a downside?

Wed, 2016-10-05 15:05
Inverness
Inverness's picture

Decided to remove my entry. Thanks to GuitarWeeps for the comment. I can't really come up with anything I like, but I'll keep pondering.

Thu, 2016-10-06 15:31
Touhoufanatic
Touhoufanatic's picture

my computer had been, unavailable, but now it isn't, so i can actually drop into this one. (i couldn't think of an entry for the other one sadly.)

feedback appreciated.
okay i totally hadny given thought to this one at all,

oldentry 5050

so here's a new replacement entry, that should be more balanced. probably.

new entry - market of the bloody sand

for those that are interested, i write fanfiction : https://www.fanfiction.net/u/4613754/

My colors

Wed, 2016-10-05 15:18
thehuw
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@Touhoufanatic: Please don't tell me you think repeatably countering any spell for no mana and sometimes no drawback for a one-off four-mana payment is anything in the general vicinity of a good idea. (Milling yourself for 2 is so small a cost as to be negligible.)

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
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Praise Vectron.

Wed, 2016-10-05 15:22
Cajun
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Tohou: Definitely needs to be a trigger and/or have a harsher cost, because this'll usually be 'mill 2-6, pay 0-4 life: counter target spell'

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Wed, 2016-10-05 15:34
Mahx Michael
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Render is here!

Wed, 2016-10-05 16:25
Asthanius
Asthanius's picture

Clash of Spirits 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Sorcery Rare
Choose an order for both—
• Each player creates two 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying.
• Destroy each creature you control. You gain 5 life for each creature destroyed this way.

I don't quite know if this wording works, but I think it should.

Wed, 2016-10-05 20:02
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

But actually, @Zephyr, I think it would make more sense if its mana cost where Black/red mana symbolBlue mana symbol, since:
Blue mana symbol = draw 2 cards.
Black mana symbol = discard 3 cards.
Red mana symbol = deal 3 damage.

But that's only my opinion, though.


But then again, having a standalone Black mana symbol also helps visualize the bitterness of the "pill"...

Wed, 2016-10-05 16:52
Pixi-Rex
Pixi-Rex's picture

@Asthanius: I can't see this card fitting this challenge issue.

For 3 mana you get min 10 life, or destroying 0 creatures and gets two 1/1 flyers.
No drawback at all.

Because you cast this card when its right to cast it.

Wed, 2016-10-05 17:19
sdfkjgh
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@aquamisa: Just call it Dre.

Check out Hive block here.
Hey, check out my blog!

Wed, 2016-10-05 20:10
Asthanius
Asthanius's picture

@Pixi-Rex: I still see it as having drawbacks because it means that you can't play any creatures you want to keep before casting it, and your opponents ALSO get two fliers. If it still seems like an ill fit for this, though, I can take it down.

Wed, 2016-10-05 21:39
yuccalyptus
yuccalyptus's picture

@touhou also goes pretty well with anything that wants to self mill (e.g. Laboratory Maniac). Maybe "activate this ability only once each turn"?

Wed, 2016-10-05 22:17
Sylphiod
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I am retracting from this weeks contest thank you for understanding.

Announcing Sylph's Dragon Highlander & Sylphmander (Draftable EDH sets)
http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/12812

Wed, 2016-10-05 23:07
popcornguy13
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Tragedy Strikes 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol

Instant - Rare

As an additional cost to Tragedy Strikes, sacrifice a creature.
Your opponent sacrifices target creature they control. You and the sacrificed creature’s controller each lose 2 life.

“Oh what could have been, but now shall never be.”

Spoiler:

Thu, 2016-10-06 09:42
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

Updated my entry. Gave it better wording and flavor text ans well as adding more color to the render art.
Also I made a small change to my m15 templates, reducing the texbox height with 3 to make it so that the text does not get to close to the bottom line as well as not hitting the foil-mark/water-mark and pt box.

Thu, 2016-10-06 11:02
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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@popcornguy: This is basically instant speed Bone Splinters and should be worded as such. I would personally make the life payment on the front end for more symmetry between the two lines but that's a minor point.

@Asthanius: I can't tell if the lifegain mode is too efficient here.

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Thu, 2016-10-06 13:37
Asthanius
Asthanius's picture

@jacqui: I think the drawbacks make it work, but I'm not 100% certain.

Thu, 2016-10-06 14:34
Liz the Goddess
Moderator
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Let's show off a creature from my most recent set I've been working on....

I like bears.

Thu, 2016-10-06 15:36
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
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Unless you're implying that these mutants are physical card objects with CMC 0 that you can return to hand and shuffle into library, shouldn't the first ability use create token wording?


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Thu, 2016-10-06 18:48
Pixi-Rex
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@Asthanius: Aaaahhh, ok I miss read it. Now, I don't see why any one would play it, unless you can make a combo on bringing your creatures back and get alot og life. But its fine as to this challenge I'll say.

Fri, 2016-10-07 07:07
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

If you want to use the "put onto the battlefield" wording, you still have to write it "put two 1/1 white Mutant creature tokens onto the battlefield". In any way, as long at it is meant to be tokens, you have to mention that in the card text. If not, you need a deck with a whole lot of 1/1 Mutant creatures to make it work.

Sun, 2016-10-09 13:51
Inverness
Inverness's picture

Finally got an idea that I like!

Desperation at Death's Door 0 mana symbol
Instant Rare
Split second
Escalate—Add Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol to your mana pool. (Pay this cost for each mode chosen beyond the first.)
Choose one or more —
• Exile your graveyard.
• Exile your hand.
• Exile your library.
• Exile all permanents you control.

I didn't have room on the card for flavor text, but here's what it would've been:
When faced with the prospect of losing his precious life, he traded away everything that made it precious in order to preserve it.

EDIT: I went ahead and added Split second. I think it fixes a lot of the degeneracy with the card. It also adds a bit of that "this is a life-or-death, heat of the moment decision" flavor.

Render

Old

Fri, 2016-10-07 14:12
thehuw
thehuw's picture

@Inverness: This is an awesome design, but I really think you should cut the first mode, otherwise just choosing the first and second makes it a mostly-better Ritual without much of a drawback to it. That one change, and you absolutely have my vote. A happy smile

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Praise Vectron.

Fri, 2016-10-07 14:30
Inverness
Inverness's picture

thehuw:
Wow, thanks for that ringing endorsement! Big smile I'm a little torn, I kind of wanted that mode so that you could give up the option of recurring this card (since it's not in the graveyard when you exile your graveyard). Plus, without this mode it's possible to exile everything you own, and then end up with this card in your graveyard. The symmetry is broken! Stick out your tongue

On the other hand, you're right that it might be a little too easy to get the most benefit out of this, since all you're giving up is your graveyard and this card. It also makes dredge decks godly since they usually discard their hands, so they could choose to exile this card and their hand, and leave their graveyard intact.

I'm going to remove the self-exile mode for now, but I'm still a little torn on it. Thanks for the feedback!

Sat, 2016-10-08 13:07
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

@Iverness
If you want the card to be more punishing, you can reverse the spell so that for 0 mana symbol you cast all, and then have to pay Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol for each effect you want to remove. Or have I misunderstood the meaning of the card?
Instead for paying 0 mana symbol to remove whatever you want, you have to pay nine Black mana symbol if you don't want more than one effect, won't that be more accurate?

Sat, 2016-10-08 13:09
Yoshi
Community Award
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@Mahx: It's more of a ritual in the style of black's power at any cost; for each mode you choose beyond the first, you get Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol. This means that if you exile your graveyard, hand, all permanents you control and your library, you would get Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol.

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Sun, 2016-10-09 09:48
Mahx Michael
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Aha! I misread it and thought the Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol was a mana cost, but it's more like a spell that gives mana instead of costing mana, I guess A happy smile


Sorry, I didn't realize you used the word ritual to refer to a specific kind of spell. Genius use of the Escalate mechanic, btw. Reminds me of Braid of Fire, only Braid of Fire is actually kind of useless unless all your spells have flash.

Sat, 2016-10-08 18:11
Inverness
Inverness's picture

Mahx:

It's funny you mention Braid of Fire- that was partly the inspiration for this card! And yes, as Yoshi mentioned, the intent of this card is that you trade your resources (graveyard, hand, library, permanents, or any combination thereof) for a large amount of black mana. The term 'Ritual' originates from cards like Dark Ritual and Pyretic Ritual.

Thanks for the kind words, btw. Big smile

Sun, 2016-10-09 02:21
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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@Inverness this really should cost Black mana symbol, or have escalate "add Black mana symbolBlack mana symbol" or something because as is this is totally Dark Ritual for Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol with occasional upside.

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Sun, 2016-10-09 09:01
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

Nah. Dark Ritual does not have any downsides. Besides, remember that you have to activate two of the abilities to get any mana at all out of it.

Escalate wrote:
Pay this cost for each mode chosen beyond the first.

And also, if you use all the abilities, you can't use the mana, since you don't have a hand or permanents and you loose the game during your next turn.
In other words:
For the spell to be effective at all, you would have to either have a spell or an ability that is powerful enough to end it all in one turn.


I personally think you could even keep the "Exile Desperation at Death's Doorstep" option as well. Then the spell would not be totally useless. Of course, then you can in early game get Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol for almost no sacrifice at all. But it would also let you use the spell without ruining your game completely. And yes you would be able to add nine black mana to your pool. But again, remember what it will cost you! And adding all twelve mana... Just forget it, you have nothing left to spend that mana on!!

Sun, 2016-10-09 09:09
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
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"Exile Desperation at Death's Doorstep" shouldn't be readded in the current version, IMHO because if you pick exile itself + exile graveyard, you essentially have a no-penalty Black Lotus on T1. Run 4 and insert degenerate combo here. The current version forces you to at least ditch -something- for that massive an advantage, and even then I'm not sold on the idea that this should be a free spell. (Don't get me wrong, it's a great concept, but it does need a bit of polish.)


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Sun, 2016-10-09 09:26
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

Still. Dark ritual is get Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol for Black mana symbol. Getting Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol for exiling you library isn't that much less of a cost. Remember that in black, your graveyard is a very usefull resource. Then again, if you use it in early game, the cost is way too good. Then again, sacrificing both your graveyard and one of the other options are way too much of a cost for only three mana. If you exile your hand, you would have no spells to use the three mana on, and if you exile your permanents its a total waste of a card. If you exile your library you loose the game at your next turn, thats even worse! What if you added another alternative instead? You should probably pick something better than this (since that would make it too much like Dark Ritual), but as an example you can add a smaller cost like "Pay Black mana symbol". (As one of the coose one or more options)


Or just set casting cost to Black mana symbol and add the "Exile Desperation at Deat's Doorstep" option. But not having 0 mana symbol as your casting cost might maybe ruin your concept, idk.

Sun, 2016-10-09 09:43
Pixi-Rex
Pixi-Rex's picture

Entry

Sun, 2016-10-09 09:47
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

Smooth card! Thumbs up

Sun, 2016-10-09 10:44
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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Concerning the "Ritual": It's an awesome card begging to be broken hard. I'm concerned about the fact that costs are paid as you cast the spell. You cast it choosing all modes, get nine black mana and then kill your opponent while the spell still is left on the stack..

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Sun, 2016-10-09 12:45
Tahazzar
Tahazzar's picture

ENTRY:

render

Splatter Phantom Black mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Horror Rare
Flash
Haste, menace
All damage that would be dealt to Splatter Phantom is dealt to you instead.
“Shhh! Did you you guys hear something?”
—Amando Kresimir, last words

2/1

EDIT1: Suggested formating edits by Pixi-Rex applied (how to order keywords).
EDIT2: Gonna go with "Haste, menace" instead of "Menace, haste" until this is cleared up. See my post below.

"The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape. Escape will make me God."

Sun, 2016-10-09 11:06
Pixi-Rex
Pixi-Rex's picture

@Mahx Michael: Thanks mate. A happy smile
.
.
@Inverness: It a little weird to see adding mana as a cost. Braid of Fire is the closest we are right now to that. I would have done it like this.

Desperation at Death's Door 0 mana symbol
Instant Mythic Rare

Escalate— Pay 3 life. (Pay this cost for each mode chosen beyond the first.)
Choose one or more —
• Exile your hand. Add Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol to your mana pool.
• Exile your graveyard. Add Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol to your mana pool.
• Exile your library. Add Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol to your mana pool.
• Exile all permanents you control. Add Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol to your mana pool.

It seem more right in my eyes. But its your design. I'm just saying. Winking smiley
.
.
@Tahazzar: Words are placed in the wrong order. This is the right order.

Splatter Phantom Black mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Creature — Horror Rare

Flash
Menace, haste
All damage that would be dealt to Splatter Phantom is dealt to you instead.
“Shhh! Did you you guys hear something?”
—Amando Kresimir, last words
2/1

Sun, 2016-10-09 11:14
Tahazzar
Tahazzar's picture

Pixi-Rex wrote:
Flash
Menace, haste

Why is menace listed before haste? Chittering Host seems to indicate the other way around...

Thx btw.

"The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape. Escape will make me God."

Sun, 2016-10-09 11:45
Pixi-Rex
Pixi-Rex's picture

Seams you are right there. I just always placed haste last, as it behind manny keywords. Cards like Animus of Predation shows the order of keywords. (Edit: No it don't.)

Anyone there has a list the keywords should be ordered in. It would be good all I think.

Sun, 2016-10-09 12:18
Tahazzar
Tahazzar's picture

Old, but probably still holds true: Ask Wizards June 2006

June 2006 Ask Wizards wrote:
Q: I've noticed on creatures with multiple keywords (flying, trample, etc.) that the keywords are in a certain order. For instance, Flying comes before First Strike and First Strike comes before Trample (Just look at Akroma, Angel of Wrath). My question is: Imagine that there was a creature printed with every keyword in Magic, what is the ordering of the keywords and is there any logical pattern to the ordering? --Matthew Burnaby, BC, Canada

A: From Del Laugel, Senior Editor: The short answer is that there's no fixed order for keywords. I check Oracle for similar cards whenever an unusual combination comes up, but my top priority is getting the individual cards to read well.

So I guess even the original with just "flash, haste, menace" is technically correct.

It does seem consistent though that Flash is listed on its own line (for example Heron's Grace Champion, Archangel Avacyn, Cloudthresher, etc...). This is probably because it differs from other (creature) keywords in that it's only "in use" when the card is not on the battlefield.

"The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape. Escape will make me God."

Sun, 2016-10-09 12:22
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

Here is the order I use:

  1. Always flash, "can't be countered" ans additional costs first! Because they affect the spell while it is being cast.
  2. Then flying, reach, intimidate and other abilities that affect how the creature blocks and is blocked.
  3. Then all the other stuff.
  4. Then hexproof, indestructible, protection, haste and other abilities that affect the creature outside of combat.

Sun, 2016-10-09 12:43
Tahazzar
Tahazzar's picture

Mahx Michael wrote:
Here is the order I use:
  1. Always flash, "can't be countered" ans additional costs first! Because they affect the spell while it is being cast.
  2. Then flying, reach, intimidate and other abilities that affect how the creature blocks and is blocked.
  3. Then all the other stuff.
  4. Then hexproof, indestructible, protection, haste and other abilities that affect the creature outside of combat.

Okay, I can agree with that. Usually with a long list I just go with an alphabetical order if I even remember to think about this.

However, shouldn't Haste be an exception, since it's almost closer to say Flash than Hexproof, because it's only relevant on the turn you play the card? So I would be inclined to clump it with the second category by your standard (even maybe put it on "top" of that second list).

"The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape. Escape will make me God."

Sun, 2016-10-09 12:49
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

Tahazzar wrote:
it's almost closer to say Flash than Hexproof, because it's only relevant on the turn you play the card?

I would not exactly say that haste is not used after the turn you cast it. If you where to exile a creature and then return it to the battlefield (with for example Cloidshift), won't it become summonsick again if it don't have haste? (Actually I'm not really shure).

Sun, 2016-10-09 12:57
Tahazzar
Tahazzar's picture

Mahx Michael wrote:
I would not exactly say that haste is not used after the turn you cast it. If you where to exile a creature and then return it to the battlefield (with for example Cloidshift), won't it become summonsick again if it don't have haste? (Actually I'm not really shure).

Well, yeah, but what if I had worded it this way: "... it's only relevant on the turn the card enters the battlefield." It's basically what I meant anyway.

Plus, that's a rather niche scenario and still doesn't change the point IMO.

"The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape. Escape will make me God."

Sun, 2016-10-09 13:32
Inverness
Inverness's picture

Jacqui, Mahx, Zephyr, Daij, Pixi:

This is quite a bit more broken than I'd realized, especially in older formats. Since the costs are paid before the spell resolves, as Daij pointed out, it's possible to just win with this card on the stack if you can play something at instant speed. Say, Ad Nauseum. All you'd need is White mana symbol for Angel's Grace and you could win on turn one with this card. Since they're instants, if you had Manamorphose and Simian Spirit Guide in hand, you might not even need to wait until turn one.

So, I'm trying to think of solutions. Jacqui, you mentioned increasing the card's cost to Black mana symbol. This definitely helps, but I'm not sure if it does enough to stop degenerate combos. I think the main issue is that it adds the mana before the card resolves- this was not the intention. The two solutions here are either to add Split-second to the card (so that you can't just combo off with this on the stack), or to try something like what Pixi-Rex suggested and have them be part of the effects. I'm leaning more towards using Split-second, as it preserves a bit more of the design I wanted.

Thoughts are always welcome. Thanks, guys, for all the advice/comments so far!

Sun, 2016-10-09 14:27
Tahazzar
Tahazzar's picture

Inverness wrote:
Thoughts are always welcome.

That design has some serious issues.

  • It's either win now or go home.
  • Rituals aren't Black mana symbol anymore. Considering Worldfire and Apocalypse, those "modecosts" could be justified there in Red mana symbol. Its "Now or Never" mentality also reflects Red mana symbol way of not really caring about the consequences.
  • Waaaay too much complexity and reliance on other keywords (Split second and escalate).

Suggested changes:

It’s Now or Never! Red mana symbol
Instant Mythic Rare
Choose one or more —
• Exile all cards from you hand.
• Exile all cards from your graveyard.
• Exile all cards from your library.
• Exile all permanents you control.
For each mode chosen this way, add Red mana symbolRed mana symbol to your mana pool.

EDIT: Alternatively, cost of 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol and "... chosen this way, add Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol to your mana pool" but I think the one that costs Red mana symbol is cleaner (and likely a bit less broken). Also, name could be just "Now or Never."

"The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape. Escape will make me God."

Sun, 2016-10-09 15:24
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

I think @pixi-rex's idea might work as well: (tried to permalink it but failed)

pixi-rex wrote:
Escalate— Pay 3 life. (Pay this cost for each mode chosen beyond the first.)
Choose one or more —
  • Exile your hand. Add Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol to your mana pool.
  • Exile your graveyard. Add Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol to your mana pool.
  • Exile your library. Add Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol to your mana pool.
  • Exile all permanents you control. Add Black mana symbolBlack mana symbolBlack mana symbol to your mana pool.


When it comes to Menace vs Haste, I would also put menace in front, while it is an ability that affect the blockability of the creature.
If you want to stick with the haste and flash buddy thingy, maybe you should go with

Quote:
Flash, haste
Menace

Sun, 2016-10-09 15:32
Cajun
Cajun's picture

@Tahazzar: The formatting thread hits most of your questions. "Menace, haste" is probably correct based off Odric and Kederekt Creeper, with it coming last on Chittering Host because it still gets reminder text, but it'll be a bit before we know for sure.

And Flash is its own line. It's probably
Flash
Menace, haste

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Sun, 2016-10-09 16:05
Mahx Michael
Mahx Michael's picture

Yes. What he said