31 Commanders

Mon, 2016-04-18 12:45
Tarvoc
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Okay, so right now I'm working on a little side project to create 31 legendary creatures that could be used as commanders - one for each color (5), one for each dual (10), one for each triple (10), one for each quadruple (5), and one with five colors. I might also include a colorless commander, which would make it 32, but I'm not sure yet. These commanders will all either be historical personalities or figures from pop culture - with most of them being the latter. I have already finished four cards from this series, which means I've still got a lot to do. I also haven't made a final decision on which figures to include yet.

I haven't done any work on his card yet, but one character I definitely want to include is Raziel from the Legacy of Kain video games. However, right now I can't really decide what to do with him. He goes through so many changes in the series...

massive spoilers ahead
He starts as a vampire hunter of the Sarafan Brotherhood (probably White mana symbol or Red mana symbolWhite mana symbol, maybe White mana symbolBlack mana symbol), then becoming a vampire himself and Kain's second-in-command (Black mana symbol or White mana symbolBlack mana symbol), then turning into a soul-devouring vengeful wraith (his most iconic form, probably Blue mana symbolBlack mana symbol, or maybe mono-Black mana symbol), and in the end being turned into the Soul Reaver itself (probably a colorless Equipment). Not to mention his constant jumps between the material world and the spirit world, and his notorious time travelling.

I'd like to know on which of these aspects I should focus for him.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Mon, 2016-04-18 12:51
Neottolemo
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All four? Four separate cards could work. Or two two-faced ones. Or, you could take inspiration from Zephyr's three-faced Hestia card in Delkor and make him a four-faced card.

Mon, 2016-04-18 14:02
Tarvoc
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Hmmm...

[edit] I could look at what gives me the most material to work with.

Spoiler:
We don't get to see much of human Raziel, except for him killing a vampire side character and then being killed off himself in Soul Reaver 2. I guess he could be a creature with some anti-Vampire mechanics, but that doesn't work too well as a Commander. We also don't get to see much of vampire Raziel save for what happens in the prologue of Soul Reaver. I think focusing on wraith Raziel and maybe the Soul Reaver is the best option here...

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Mon, 2016-04-18 17:56
Cajun
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Wait, was that actual justification? I thought he was a Temur dude that went native on Jund and his spirit journey to Ugin undid the crazy.

@Tarvoc: Seeing what you have so far and who you want to include will help for finagling colors.

Four color guys are gonna be hard. I've been working with the philosophy of focusing on what is missing, and about the best character fit I've got is (new) Scrooge McDuck at White mana symbolBlue mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol. The easier ways to pull this off are hybrid, a White mana symbolBlue mana symbolBlack/green mana symbol character could be a Bant-Esper blend instead of anti-red, activations like the Khans (Razeal may not be Blue mana symbol but he could have a time travel ability), or just straight transform cards.

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fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Mon, 2016-04-18 18:18
Neottolemo
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He was a Mardu native.

Mon, 2016-04-18 18:58
voltaic-qui
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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"Used time to perfect his world" strikes me as self-directed evolution which is quintessentially Green mana symbolBlue mana symbol.

formerly jacquipup

"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game."

Mon, 2016-04-18 19:08
Cajun
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Salvation Wiki wrote:
His trip through time had imbued him with the ability to use blue mana.
Ehhh. It makes enough sense if he was blue once-upon-a-time, but the Mardu guy is a blue mage now just because is shaky.

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fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Mon, 2016-04-18 20:56
Autumnstar00
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So are they all going to be from video games? Because that sounds like it'd be cool. I'm ok if it's not since, it's kinda your thing and not mine, but I'm going to start listing characters that I can think of.

Kratos from God of war: Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol. He's arguably just Black/red mana symbol after the first game, but he still fits the orzhov philosophy of using others for personal gain.
Thrall from WoW: Red mana symbolGreen mana symbolBlue mana symbol
The Lich King: some combination of White mana symbol, Blue mana symbol, and Black mana symbol. But definitely Black mana symbol
Jaina from WoW: Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Miraak from Skyrim: Blue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbol

I don't actually play a lot of fantasy games so that's about all I got there. There are some other genres of games and such I know about though. So this is everything else I got.

Malcolm Reynolds from firefly and Jim Raynor from Starcraft: Red/white mana symbol
Sarah Kerrigan: Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbol for human, probably Blue mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbol or Black mana symbolRed mana symbolGreen mana symbol for infested. Could fit 4 colored.
Artanis or Tassadar: White/blue mana symbol. It'd be cool to see a Tassadar prowess/ spirit tribal thing. Might starts Starcraft project some time, with duel decks or something.
Thor (mostly from marvel. Don't know much about Norse mythology): Red/white mana symbol
The kid from bastion (can't remember if he had a name. It's been forever): Red/white mana symbol
Scott Pilgrim: Red/white mana symbol lot of Red/white mana symbols. Maybe it's because they're the types of characters we want to relate to most.
Finn from adventure time: Red/white mana symbol
Star Wars characters: we probably all know these.
Batman: White/black mana symbol
Leader of team aqua from Pokemon: Green/blue mana symbol. Maybe Red mana symbol
Leader of team magma: Blue/red mana symbol. Maybe Green mana symbol
I could go on to homestuck characters. But we all know that NOBODY wants me to list all those.

Mon, 2016-04-18 21:04
voltaic-qui
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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I had a Buffy-themed set with a lot of the arc villains as three-color guys. Most of the designs sucked, but I had The Mayor down as Abzan (and making a 100/100 indestructible "can't be blocked by Humans" Olvikan token).

I bet you could do a whole set that's just HOmestuck tbh.

formerly jacquipup

"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game."

Mon, 2016-04-18 21:15
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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Video game commanders? White/blue mana symbol exiling then copy Kirby!

Mon, 2016-04-18 23:32
Tarvoc
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Autumnstar00 wrote:
So are they all going to be from video games? Because that sounds like it'd be cool.

No. As I mentioned in my starting post, I use (pop-)cultural references in general, and also historical figures. Maybe also figures from religion and mythology. Right now I already have one historical figure, one character from G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, and two villains from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I will also only create cards for media and characters that I know. I don't know God of War and don't plan to play it any time soon, so if you want a Kratos card, you'd probably have to design it yourself. I might do Warcraft / Starcraft stuff, although I'm not that big of a Warcraft fan (I only played Warcraft 2 and 3, never WoW). If I do Starcraft stuff, I'll more likely use the alien characters than the terran ones.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Tue, 2016-04-19 07:20
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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Still voting for Kirby - who could resist the fluffy marshmellow?

Some other suggestions:
White mana symbol Frollo (Hunchback of Notre Dame) showing white's evil side - even though the more the story progresses, he begins to show some black tendancies (egoistic desire)..
Blue mana symbol Sheldon Cooper Winking smiley
Black mana symbol Malificent

Tue, 2016-04-19 08:13
digiman619
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Harry Dresden for The Dresden Files is Red mana symbol or maybe Red/white mana symbol or Black/red mana symbol depending on where in the story he is.

Tue, 2016-04-19 12:00
Neottolemo
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I'mma say that if you got two characters from the same series already you could pick an appropriate number of franchises (cout ancient history as a franchise) and make two characters for each franchise.

Tue, 2016-04-19 12:09
Tarvoc
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Daij_Djan wrote:
White mana symbol Frollo (Hunchback of Notre Dame) showing white's evil side - even though the more the story progresses, he begins to show some black tendancies (egoistic desire)..

I actually already have a White mana symbol Commander, but that is a good idea. I might make her Red mana symbolWhite mana symbol so I can put Frollo into White mana symbol. Or I might do Frollo in White mana symbolBlack mana symbol. I guess he'd also work in White mana symbolBlack mana symbolRed mana symbol, but I also already have a Commander for that wedge as well.

That said, I love Frollo. His villain song is one of my favorite Disney songs of all time. The choir of demonic-angelic figures who accuse him is almost Brechtian - or rather, it manages to be Brechtian and almost David Lynch-esque at the same time. He's very different from your "normal" Disney villains altogether, and his villain song shows this very well. Also, using him would give me a nice excuse to watch the Hunchback again. It's been a while and right now I have no ideas for mechanics.

Daij_Djan wrote:
Blue mana symbol Sheldon Cooper ;)

I was considering Mobius from Legacy of Kain, but that is a good idea. Hmm...

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Tue, 2016-04-19 12:19
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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Tarvoc wrote:
His villain song is one of my favorite Disney songs of all time.

If this forum would have some sort of post voting function, I'd now give you a +1 Loyalty Totally agree with you

Tue, 2016-04-19 12:58
Tarvoc
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Raziel

I think this lends itself to unconventional Voltron strategies that go Voltron with another creature than your Commander...

(Fridge Brilliance: Kind of like Kain. Wide grin)

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Tue, 2016-04-19 13:00
Neottolemo
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As Raziel is written, he never dies, so you don't need to return it to the battlefield. You can just say "you may transform it instead." That also allows it to keep the counters it gets in its creature form.

Tue, 2016-04-19 13:04
Tarvoc
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Neottolemo wrote:
That also allows it to keep the counters it gets in its creature form.

Given that he can't transform back, that's not really that important. But you're right.

Also, technically Raziel does die when he's transformed into the Reaver, so not sure if I should change it for flavor reasons...

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Tue, 2016-04-19 13:38
Neottolemo
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But then you'd have to add another line that specifies that he keeps the counters... That doesn't sound that good.

Tue, 2016-04-19 13:55
Tarvoc
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Neottolemo wrote:
But then you'd have to add another line that specifies that he keeps the counters...

Provided I want him to keep them. As I said: Given that he can't transform back, it might not even be important.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Wed, 2016-04-20 14:31
voltaic-qui
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Kirby as White/blue mana symbol? No no no. Kirby is obviously Black/green mana symbol.

formerly jacquipup

"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game."

Wed, 2016-04-20 14:50
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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Kirby sucks his enemies in and then copies their abilities - could easily be done by using White/blue mana symbol Winking smiley

Wed, 2016-04-20 15:01
voltaic-qui
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Kirby takes on a criminal gang and releases an eldritch horror from its slumber because his cake was stolen. Gourmet Race is dedicated to eating as much food as humanly possible.

Kirby isn't a clone. He's a miniature Doomgape.

formerly jacquipup

"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game."

Wed, 2016-04-20 19:19
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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OK, I admit defeat: That sure is one hilarious psychoanalysis

Wed, 2016-04-20 20:11
Pixi-Rex
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Mono color Numbers (6)
White White mana symbol
Blue Blue mana symbol
Black Black mana symbol
Red Red mana symbol
Green Green mana symbol
Colorless Colorless mana symbol

Guilds colors Numbers (10)
Azorius White/blue mana symbol
Dimir Blue/black mana symbol
Rakdos Black/red mana symbol
Gruul Red/green mana symbol
Selesnya Green/wite mana symbol
Orzhov White/black mana symbol
Golgari Black/green mana symbol
Simic Green/blue mana symbol
Izzet Blue/red mana symbol
Boros Red/white mana symbol

Shards colors Numbers (5)
Bant Green mana symbol/White mana symbol/Blue mana symbol
Esper White mana symbol/Blue mana symbol/Black mana symbol
Grixis Blue mana symbol/Black mana symbol/Red mana symbol
Jund Black mana symbol/Red mana symbol/Green mana symbol
Naya Red mana symbol/Green mana symbol/White mana symbol

Wedges colors Numbers (5)
Abzan White mana symbol/Black mana symbol/Green mana symbol
Jeskai Blue mana symbol/Red mana symbol/White mana symbol
Sultai Black mana symbol/Green mana symbol/Blue mana symbol
Mardu Red mana symbol/White mana symbol/Black mana symbol
Temur Green mana symbol/Blue mana symbol/Red mana symbol

Nephilim colors Numbers (5)
Yore-Tiller Nephilim White mana symbol/Blue mana symbol/Black mana symbol/Red mana symbol
Glint-Eye Nephilim Blue mana symbol/Black mana symbol/Red mana symbol/Green mana symbol
Dune-Brood Nephilim Black mana symbol/Red mana symbol/Green mana symbol/White mana symbol
Ink-Treader Nephilim Red mana symbol/Green mana symbol/White mana symbol/Blue mana symbol
Witch-Maw Nephilim Green mana symbol/White mana symbol/Blue mana symbol/Black mana symbol

Five colors Numbers (1)
1996 World Champion White mana symbol/Blue mana symbol/Black mana symbol/Red mana symbol/Green mana symbol

Total Numbers (32)

Just to visualize the colors.

Thu, 2016-04-21 06:00
Tarvoc
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Colorless still technically isn't a color. As far as I know, you can play Kozilek, the Great Distortion in an EDH deck whose Commander doesn't have Colorless mana symbol in its cost or rules text. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)


I just came up with a Red mana symbolGreen mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlue mana symbol Commander on the fly. Guess who it is. Hint: He has the creature type Human.
Another hint: He hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet, and neither has the cartoon show he's from.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Thu, 2016-04-21 06:00
Cajun
Cajun's picture

I'm guessing Finn the Human isn't any amount of Blue mana symbol but now I kinda want it.

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fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Thu, 2016-04-21 06:00
Tarvoc
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Finn is the wrong answer.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Thu, 2016-04-21 07:42
gyoza

Probably wrong,but I realize Super Mario mechanically could work in those colors. He just needs four activated abilities to correspond to his basic powers.

Blue mana symbol his jump (gain flying until end of turn)

Green mana symbol his mushroom (get a +1/+1 counter)

Red mana symbol his fire flower (firebreathing)

White mana symbol his star (indestructible until end of turn)

Thu, 2016-04-21 13:10
Tarvoc
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Super Mario is the wrong answer.

I'll give you guys another hint. The cartoon show this character appears in was one of the few good cartoon shows of its decade. There are even some people who say it was the only truly good cartoon show of its decade. Oh, the character we're talking about is also the title character of his show (well, sort of). I think now it should be easy.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Thu, 2016-04-21 13:14
Neottolemo
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I'm no cartoon expert at all but maybe He-Man?

Thu, 2016-04-21 13:25
Tarvoc
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Wrong answer.

Ok, here's one last clue:
There are a few creatures in the Tarkir block who look a bit similar to him, and not entirely by chance.

Now it should really be easy...

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Thu, 2016-04-21 15:25
Cajun
Cajun's picture

He-Man was a great guess but he falls into that not-blue zone too.

If we're thinking only good cartoon of the decade, probably falls in the 50s/80s, 60-70s should have enough to beat only good cartoon. But non-black Human that looks like a hun/orc/djinn/aven and sorta named his show. Uh.... Harvey Birdman. rully got nothing.

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fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Thu, 2016-04-21 20:22
Tarvoc
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Cajun wrote:
If we're thinking only good cartoon of the decade, probably falls in the 50s/80s.

It's neither the 50s nor the 80s.

Also, I said some people say it's the only good cartoon from the decade in question. It is an exaggeration, I could name a few other decent cartoons from that decade, but this one particularly stands out.

Cajun wrote:
60-70s should have enough to beat only good cartoon.

It also doesn't fall into these years as well.

Cajun wrote:
But non-black Human that looks like a hun/orc/djinn/aven and sorta named his show.

He looks like a human. Also, when you mention huns, you're thinking of the wrong wedge. The character we're talking about doesn't look like a Temur.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Thu, 2016-04-21 19:58
grishnax
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Fred Flintstone?

Thu, 2016-04-21 20:18
Tarvoc
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Wrong answer.

Another hint: if I give you one of his creature types, I will also have given you the title of his show.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Thu, 2016-04-21 20:50
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

There was a cartoon show of Conan the Barbarian? I didn't even know that.

Also, wrong answer.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Thu, 2016-04-21 21:39
digiman619
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Can you at least give us a decade? Guessing a series that could have happened over a course of forty years is as king abit much...

Thu, 2016-04-21 21:49
Pixi-Rex
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All. If we are talks cartoons. Its not an anime, and Avatar isn't an anime. So Aang, the Avatar. His a Human Monk Avatar. Is it him?

Thu, 2016-04-21 21:51
grishnax
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Okay, how about Yogi Bear?

Thu, 2016-04-21 22:14
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
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...it wouldn't happen to be Popeye, would it? "Legendary Creature - Human Sailor" seems incredibly plausible. If it's not him or Aang, I'll be a bit surprised.

Looking for fun? Try Battle Boards!

Thu, 2016-04-21 23:07
Tarvoc
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Pixi-Rex is correct.

Aang

P/T, cost and abilities aren't final and probably need balancing. But I like the idea so far.

(And yes, I know I took a bit of liberty with how the Avatar state works.)

Or what do you think of this version?

Aang, slightly modified

Once again, P/T, cost and abilities aren't final and probably need balancing. If you have any suggestions, let me know.

I'd also like to know which version you like better.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Fri, 2016-04-22 00:17
voltaic-qui
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Now I want a Rocky and Bullwinkle themed set :0/

formerly jacquipup

"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game."

Fri, 2016-04-22 01:59
Tarvoc
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I don't even know who that is. Wide grin

Any comments about my Aang? I'd be thankful for balancing suggestions.

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Fri, 2016-04-22 02:20
Autumnstar00
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I feel like the second ones Air nomad side is better, but the original avatar side is better than the second version.
The transform trigger is odd enough and cost is diverse enough that the cheaper one works fine. The second avatar one, is ridiculous though. It should definitely just stop noncreature spells instead of ALL spells that player would cast.

EDIT: also, maybe for the avatar side, swap out one of the keywords for prowess?

Fri, 2016-04-22 03:36
Tarvoc
Tarvoc's picture

Autumnstar00 wrote:
I feel like the second ones Air nomad side is better, but the original avatar side is better than the second version.

So you would essentially have the first version, but with the second version's Transform cost?

My colors: Freedom (Red mana symbol) through Knowledge (Blue mana symbol) and Organization (White mana symbol).

Fri, 2016-04-22 03:40
Autumnstar00
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Yes, exactly.

Fri, 2016-04-22 10:52
Pixi-Rex
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So I only spend about 2 hours on this. I hope you all like it. He has +1 power, and the ability can be ativated when you like to do it, but only if a legendray creature died. Think that way it works better. But I must say its a pretty good design Tarvoc. (Creature type and name edit, only to fit the render.)

Aang Render

Fri, 2016-04-22 15:24
Cajun
Cajun's picture

Transforms don't need 'once per turn' any more. Heir of Falkenrath had it because free Madness outlet.

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fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Fri, 2016-04-22 15:42
Pixi-Rex
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@Cajun: It was to make him less power full. This way you can't attack with him, transforming him to human form, and then transform back to Avatar form to have him as a blocker. Thats is why.
I just think that is the most fair thing to do. You can all ready do so much with him. fx. If legendary creature died, you attack with him in human form, tap two creatures, then transform him, dealing comander damage. And you opponent can't cast spells.