Community Set - Construction in Progress - Urban Wastelands: Common to the Core

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Thu, 2016-04-28 11:24
TheBrokenUrn
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@Autumnstar00: Firefight is like a blend of double strike, defender, and bushido but all about blocking. Sounds more mono-white to me and maybe a little red. But that is just me.

How about this for a green mechanic?

Erode <cost> (<cost>, Tap symbol: Exile this permanent. Search your library for a basic land and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Shuffle your library.)

or . . .

Erode <cost> -- # (<cost>, Tap symbol: Exile this permanent. Put # green 0/1 Elemental Plant creature tokens onto the battlefield.)

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Fri, 2016-04-29 08:37
TheBrokenUrn
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Originally, I had the idea of having a "something matters" theme for green before a friend of mine explained that the process of erosion is more green magic than red magic. This idea came up.

I would love to hear thoughts on either of these two ideas for erode.

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Fri, 2016-04-29 23:49
Autumnstar00
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Maybe you could have it be a pseudo so that you can be more flexible with it. The first one probably doesn't work too well since having too many cards in the set with it could be too much mill.
EDIT: also, what are you talking about with firefight? It's specifically an offensive mechanic that discourages your opponent from blocking. How is it similar to defender at all?

Fri, 2016-04-29 23:57
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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Erode <cost> (<cost>, Tap symbol: Exile this permanent. Search your library for a basic land and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Shuffle your library.)

Fine as a single card yet way too much shuffeling in Limited for a real mechanic. (Also it would potentially make mono-green a five-colored deck instantly by simply adding four non-Forest basics..)

Erode <cost> -- # (<cost>, Tap symbol: Exile this permanent. Put # green 0/1 Elemental Plant creature tokens onto the battlefield.)

Correct would be: Erode # - <cost>. That aside, I like this one better. Swarming the board with lots of 0/1 tokens really slows the game down, though. Maybe as 1/1 plants? There is a reason Wizards changed from Spawns to Scions after all..

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Sat, 2016-04-30 12:48
TheBrokenUrn
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@Autumnstar: I understand that Firefight is to discourage blocking. That was my first thought. Firefight is definitely an offensive ability but can be utilized as a defensive strategy. I am one of these people that looks at mechanics as both an offensive strategy as well as a defensive strategy. Cards like "this creature must block this turn" can push Firefight into a defensive strategy.

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Sat, 2016-04-30 16:12
Autumnstar00
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Oh, ok. I thought you read it as "whenever this creature blocks" not "whenever this creature attacks"
Yeah, I can see how you could use it to manipulate the battlefield in your favor defensively.

Tue, 2016-05-03 11:55
TheBrokenUrn
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So for Erode, I had a secondary thought about the Plant token.

Erode # - <cost> (<cost>, Tap symbol: Exile this permanent. Put # green 1/1 Elemental Plant creature tokens onto the battlefield.)

Would it be too OP if I added "Sacrifice this token: Put an erosion counter on target nonland permanent. (If a nonland permanent has erosion counters equal to the CMC of the permanent, it is put into the graveyard.")?

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Tue, 2016-05-03 22:27
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Power level isn't the concern here. Giving the tokens that ability makes it like, five lines of text.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Wed, 2016-05-04 06:23
TheBrokenUrn
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@jacqui: Even if I remove the reminder text regarding the erosion counters, is it too OP or am I just trying too hard to make the effect flavorful?

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Wed, 2016-05-04 13:52
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Erosion counters have the weird problem of not really working with tokens.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Wed, 2016-05-04 14:25
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
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I think Erode works just fine if you kept it to the base ability. Perhaps have a separate creature that mimics that sacrifice ability, like:

Erode Support CG01 3 mana symbolGreen mana symbolGreen mana symbol
Creature - Plant Rare
Sacrifice a Plant: Put an erosion counter on target nonland permanent.
If a nonland permanent has erosion counters equal to the CMC of the permanent, it is put into the graveyard.
2/4


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Thu, 2016-05-05 00:59
TheBrokenUrn
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@Jacqui: If I am not mistaken, tokens are considered to have a converted mana cost of 0. Correct me if I am wrong on that, please.

@Zephyr: Based on new thoughts, I think you may be right. I guess I was trying too hard to put everything into a mechanic.

So the mechanic will read . . .

Erode # - <cost> (<cost>, Tap symbol, Exile this permanent: Put # 1/1 green Elemental Plant creature tokens onto the battlefield.)

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Thu, 2016-05-05 01:18
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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No, that's exactly the problem. It only counts if the CMC is equal to the number of erosion counters, so any number of erosion counters will just... not destroy tokens.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Thu, 2016-05-05 01:52
Cajun
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It's actually the opposite problem. Due to how it's worded it's a state based effect, like losing to 10 poison counters, so tokens that don't enter with erosion counters will instantly die. Erosion counters would have to trigger when they are placed for tokens to even work anymore.

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Thu, 2016-05-05 02:04
ZephyrPhantom
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It's better than that, actually, erosion counters apply to any nonland permanent. Half the game becomes literally unplayable! =D


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Thu, 2016-05-05 10:32
TheBrokenUrn
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Color mechanics is placed on the Original Post.

I know we were thinking on Progress for Blue mana symbol.

How does Progress sound to you? Strong critique is needed.

Progress (Look at the top card of your library. If it's an artifact card, you may exile it. If an artifact card is exiled this way, you make progress.)

Mechanic suggested by Yoshi.

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Fri, 2016-05-06 23:58
TheBrokenUrn
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Currently, Progress is the only suggested for the Blue mana symbol mechanic.

Does anyone have an idea for a blue mechanic?

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Sat, 2016-05-07 10:13
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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Progress is a little tricky since it won't trigger often. Even Lands only make up so many cards of your library but artifacts normally are even rarer. And when you don't hit one, your mechanic does nothing. And even when you hit your target, you exile the card getting rid of it. This means you'd have to combine Progress in your deck with lots of artifact cards you don't mind not drawing - which is a little weird..

Fun fact: I've been toying around with a kind of similar mechanic for my ship-based set Luvion, which would fit here as well:

Discover (Reveal the top card of your library and put it into your hand.)

And then, similar to Progress, it would be combined with lots of "if you discovered a foo card this way.." and/or "whenever you discover a foo card.." triggers. Discover has the advantage of always being positive, you'll never feel bad about discovering a card (since it's basically a mere card draw). And there's one additional catch: For Luvion, to fit the set's theme as well as to leave further design space available, I'll only use lands for the foo triggers. This means, if you're interested, you could use the exact same mechanic (name should fit into your set as well as I've intentionally kept it rather flavor neutral) and switch to artifact triggers - making it work flavorfully just like Progress (yet simply play better imho) while also tying together without overlapping our sets from a gameplay design standpoint Winking smiley

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Sat, 2016-05-07 15:59
TheBrokenUrn
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@Daij_Djan: Discover looks awesome and it does have the wider range to leak out as you have stated. And it fits well in to the Recon aspect of blue color aspect of the set. Good on you, mate!

And naturally, I can assume the syntax could be both monstrous and investigate.

Either...
<cost>: Discover.
...or...
[When something happens], discover.

Any other thoughts?

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Sat, 2016-05-07 21:51
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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Yeah, since it's an ability word, it can be used in a variaty of ways. It can also be used on instants/sorceries with stuff like:

Discover
Do xyz. If you discovered a foo card, do XYZ instead.

There's only one think to keep in mind: Discover still is basically a cantrip, so the cards need to be costed accordingly Winking smiley

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Sun, 2016-05-08 05:58
Autumnstar00
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So on a 1 cost card it's basically a cantrip that's worse than most cantrips that has a chance of being better. Alright

Mon, 2016-05-09 04:28
TheBrokenUrn
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I am liking Discover a lot now.

However, I will put it to a vote since this is a community brainstorm.

1) Progress (Look at the top card of your library. If it's an artifact card, you may exile it. If an artifact card is exiled this way, you make progress.) [suggested by Yoshi]

2) Discover (Reveal the top card of your library and put it into your hand.) [suggested by Daij_Djan]

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Mon, 2016-05-09 15:58
Yoshi
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I'm voting for discover, definitely. It works a lot better and is more flexible than progress.

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Mon, 2016-05-09 19:25
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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Voting for it feels a bit weird since it's my own suggestion - but if you consider it valid I'm voting for Discover as well Winking smiley

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Mon, 2016-05-09 19:48
Autumnstar00
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Yeah, discover all the way

Tue, 2016-05-10 05:18
TheBrokenUrn
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Well, all the color mechanics are set. Time to get to work on the factions just a little bit so card naming will be easier.

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Fri, 2016-05-13 00:06
TheBrokenUrn
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First Draft of Factions:
White mana symbol: Central Station (The remnants of the government, trying to rebuild the nation through cooperation; ruled by law.)
Blue mana symbol: Techrons (The remnants of businessmen of the once powerful IT corporations; ruled by profit and tech.)
Black mana symbol: Oilcan Gang (The gang trying to seize control of all the districts in Grand York; ruled by force and fear.)
Red mana symbol: Redchains (Former inmates of the prisons that banded together; ruled by passion.)
Green mana symbol: Farmers of the Fissure (Groups of various clans trying to rebuild with very little use of tech and connect with the mana; ruled by compassion and nature.)

What do you guys think of this?

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Thu, 2016-05-12 16:09
Autumnstar00
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I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it being based on a real location that blatantly, but I like the factions. I don't know of blue exactly fits the flavor we talked about much though. Don't get me wrong, former business men would totally be blue in this scenario, but they don't really fit the hacker stereotype much.

Thu, 2016-05-12 18:13
Neottolemo
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I like those, although there's some overlap between the Redchains and the Oilcan gang so maybe Idk make the Red mana symbol faction artists or something? I have no real good replacement idea though.
And thinking about what Autumnstar said: maybe the Techrons are like IT magnates. Maybe Grand York is near a Silicon Valley equivalent or something. Does that sound good to you?
Should we try making a set skeleton now?

Thu, 2016-05-12 18:21
fluffyDeathbringer
Moderator
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Well, Redchains being a gang about passion, camaraderie and freedom and the Oilcans being a gang about oppression and control is enough distinction imo.

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Thu, 2016-05-12 18:30
Neottolemo
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Ok. Depends on how well we can show that on the cards I guess.

Fri, 2016-05-13 00:06
TheBrokenUrn
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@Neottolemo: Sounds good. I'll make the change there. Is there anything that can be added or modified?

Thoughts are welcome.

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Wed, 2016-06-01 11:27
TheBrokenUrn
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Second Draft of Factions:
White mana symbol: Central Station (The remnants of the government, trying to rebuild the nation through cooperation; ruled by law.)
Blue mana symbol: Techrons (Remnants of former businessmen, trying to regain profits through the sale of information from hacked devices; ruled by profit and tech.)
Black mana symbol: Oilcan Gang (The gang trying to seize control of all the districts in Grand York; ruled by force and fear.)
Red mana symbol: Redchains (Former inmates of the prisons that banded together; ruled by passion.)
Green mana symbol: Farmers of the Fissure (Groups of various clans trying to rebuild with very little use of tech and connect with the mana; ruled by compassion and nature.)

Inspiration for the second draft came for The Division; love the game. Check it out sometime!

How does this one look?

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Wed, 2016-06-01 12:19
Neottolemo
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Seems nice.

Techron Peddler 2 mana symbolBlue mana symbol
Creature - Human Survivor Uncommon
1 mana symbol: Move a +1/+1 counter from Techron Peddler to another target creature.
Blue mana symbol, Tap symbol: Discover. If a noncreature card was discovered this way, put a +1/+1 counter on Techron Peddler.
"Would you happen to be interested in this?"
1/1

Thu, 2016-06-02 05:50
TheBrokenUrn
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@Neottolemo: That looks awesome!

@Everyone: I think we have enough to start making the set.

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Thu, 2016-06-02 06:49
ZephyrPhantom
Moderator
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Alright, so how large is the set going to be? I think we can definitely hit 150 if we try, but we should consider 200-256 if we really want to flesh out all the mechanics, IMHO.


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Thu, 2016-06-02 08:52
TheBrokenUrn
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@Zephyr: I agree with you there. I have seen various breakdowns for smaller sets.

For 120 card sets:
50 commons
35 uncommons
27 rares
8 mythics

For 80 card sets:
34 commons
23 uncommons
18 rares
5 mythics

Would it be safe to say that we can combine these two set distributions to hit 200?

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Thu, 2016-06-02 09:01
ZephyrPhantom
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Yeah, that should work out; professionalecho's set ratio calculator gives almost the exact same numbers.


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Thu, 2016-06-02 11:06
TheBrokenUrn
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With the rarity distribution complete, I will need some help with the skeleton.

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Tue, 2016-06-14 06:54
TheBrokenUrn
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The rarity breakdown will be:
84 commons
78 uncommons
45 rares
13 mythics

For a basic breakdown will be:
84 = 16 per color + 4
78 = 15 per color + 3
45 = 9 per color
13 = 2 per color + 3

Are these numbers looking okay?

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Tue, 2016-06-14 13:22
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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How prevalent are artifacts in this set? That's what's going to effect the color breakdown.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Tue, 2016-06-14 13:36
Yoshi
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To recap: What are the mechanics we have? Do we need any other mechanics?

Working on an alt-color pie at the moment. Check me out in forum games!
If you need help with a community project, just message me and I'll be glad to help.

I stand with the specimen.

Tue, 2016-06-14 16:13
TheBrokenUrn
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@Jacqui: There are going to be colored artifacts, minimum two per color common, two per color uncommon, and at least one per color rare.

@Yoshi: The mechanics (and all other information) are here.

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Fri, 2016-06-17 06:23
TheBrokenUrn
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Here are the common skeletons. I will require some assistance on this.

White Common Skeleton
CW01: creature
CW02: creature
CW03: creature
CW04: creature
CW05: creature
CW06: creature
CW07: creature
CW08: creature
CW09: creature
CW10: instant
CW11: sorcery
CW12: enchantment
CW13: enchantment - aura
CW14: artifact
CW15:
CW16:

Blue Common Skeleton
CU01: creature
CU02: creature
CU03: creature
CU04: creature
CU05: creature
CU06: creature
CU07: creature
CU08: creature
CU09: instant
CU10: instant
CU11: instant
CU12: sorcery
CU13: enchantment - aura
CU14: artifact
CU15:
CU16:

Black Common Skeleton
CB01: creature
CB02: creature
CB03: creature
CB04: creature
CB05: creature
CB06: creature
CB07: creature
CB08: creature
CB09: instant
CB10: sorcery
CB11: sorcery
CB12: enchantment - aura
CB13: artifact
CB14:
CB15:
CB16:

Red Common Skeleton
CR01: creature
CR02: creature
CR03: creature
CR04: creature
CR05: creature
CR06: creature
CR07: creature
CR08: creature
CR09: instant
CR10: instant
CR11: sorcery
CR12: enchantment - aura
CR13: artifact
CR14:
CR15:
CR16:

Green Common Skeleton
CG01: creature
CG02: creature
CG03: creature
CG04: creature
CG05: creature
CG06: creature
CG07: creature
CG08: creature
CG09: creature
CG10: instant
CG11: sorcery
CG12: sorcery
CG13: enchantment - aura
CG14: artifact
CG15:
CG16:

Colorless Common Skeleton
CX01: land
CX02: artifact
CX03:
CX04:

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Thu, 2016-06-16 12:25
Daij_Djan
Moderator Best Set of 2016
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With 16 commons for each color, some very basic general card type distribution would be:

  • 8 Creatures for each color. +1 for white and green each.
  • 1 Instant for each color. + 1 for blue, propably +2 even. Maybe +1 for red.
  • 1 Sorcery for each color. +1 for black, propably +2 even. Propably +1 for green and/or red as well.
  • 1 Enchantment (typically an Aura) for each color. Propably +1 for white.
  • Open slots are normally filled with noncreature cards (allowing token creators, though).

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Thu, 2016-06-16 17:12
thehuw
thehuw's picture

I usually count token creators that aren't reactive or restricted as creature cards when I do skeletons, actually - so, for example, I count Raise the Alarm as a creature slot, but Rite of the Serpent as a noncreature.

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Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Set Huwb
They/them pronouns, please.
Praise Vectron.

Fri, 2016-06-17 06:26
TheBrokenUrn
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Common skeleton , in construction.

90% of the time, I'm wrong. The other 110%, I'm right.

Sun, 2016-06-26 23:50
TheBrokenUrn
TheBrokenUrn's picture

How does everything look so far?

Common Skeleton
White Common Skeleton
CW01: creature
CW02: creature
CW03: creature
CW04: creature
CW05: creature
CW06: creature
CW07: creature
CW08: creature
CW09: creature
CW10: instant
CW11: sorcery
CW12: enchantment
CW13: enchantment - aura
CW14: artifact
CW15: land
CW16: artifact - equipment

Blue Common Skeleton
CU01: creature
CU02: creature
CU03: creature
CU04: creature
CU05: creature
CU06: creature
CU07: creature
CU08: creature
CU09: instant
CU10: instant
CU11: instant
CU12: sorcery
CU13: enchantment - aura
CU14: artifact
CU15: land
CU16: artifact - equipment
CU17: enchantment

Black Common Skeleton
CB01: creature
CB02: creature
CB03: creature
CB04: creature
CB05: creature
CB06: creature
CB07: creature
CB08: creature
CB09: instant
CB10: sorcery
CB11: sorcery
CB12: enchantment - aura
CB13: artifact
CB14: enchantment
CB15: land
CB16: artifact - equipment

Red Common Skeleton
CR01: creature
CR02: creature
CR03: creature
CR04: creature
CR05: creature
CR06: creature
CR07: creature
CR08: creature
CR09: instant
CR10: instant
CR11: sorcery
CR12: enchantment - aura
CR13: artifact
CR14: enchantment
CR15: land
CR16: artifact - equipment

Green Common Skeleton
CG01: creature
CG02: creature
CG03: creature
CG04: creature
CG05: creature
CG06: creature
CG07: creature
CG08: creature
CG09: creature
CG10: instant
CG11: sorcery
CG12: sorcery
CG13: enchantment - aura
CG14: artifact
CG15: artifact - equipment
CG16: land

Colorless Common Skeleton
CX01: land
CX02: artifact
CX03: artifact

90% of the time, I'm wrong. The other 110%, I'm right.

Fri, 2016-06-17 13:04
thehuw
thehuw's picture

It's not all that common for any color to have "global" enchantments at common - Auras and "seals" (like the Vessels) are more frequent (with a few very simple exceptions like Impact Tremors and Isolation Zone, the only two such exceptions in Standard right now). On a similar note, it's worth noting that most artifacts at common that aren't creatures are either Equipment or fixing.

Red mana symbolWhite mana symbolBlack mana symbol
Set Huwb
They/them pronouns, please.
Praise Vectron.

Tue, 2016-06-28 06:47
TheBrokenUrn
TheBrokenUrn's picture

How do the common skeletons look for now?

90% of the time, I'm wrong. The other 110%, I'm right.