MSE Modern and LackeyCCG Discussion [Download in Original Post]

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Thu, 2015-10-29 14:57
WindyDelcarlo
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Cabal Therapy also isn't modern legal
That said, there's no Young Pyromancer yet.

Thu, 2015-10-29 15:06
Cajun
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Depends on the format tho, if there's no stupid black combos, Therapy can be disrupting combos rather than locking their victory. Most of the posted shenanigans have been red but I haven't been able to dig too deep into Lackey yet so iunno.

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I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Thu, 2015-10-29 16:46
Decembra
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I've seen a lot of combo engines. A lot. But Cabal Therapy is stupidly good against the majority of Magic decks, not just combos. We've got Mind Snap as a backup. And when Volaria block becomes legal we'll have Leaking Memories too. I would rather ban the combos that are causing trouble than bring Cabal Therapy into Modern to beat the combos.

Thu, 2015-10-29 16:58
WindyDelcarlo
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Volaria block is not likely to be legalized

Thu, 2015-10-29 17:14
ThisisSakon
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@herzinth: presence of gond and anything that untaps when another creature enters are legal in real modern, same with splinter twin and it's host of problems.

It's worth noting that wizards hardly ever bans the combo, but instead bans the most efficient way to get the combo to work. Preordain and Dig through Cruise are banned, splinter twin is not. Dread Return is banned, Golgari Grave Troll is not. Artifact lands are banned, ravaged is not.

The only case of "ban the combo piece" I can think of is Birthing Pod, but because the whole deck is just a mash of cards that aren't stellar on their own

Thu, 2015-10-29 17:20
WindyDelcarlo
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Birthing pod isn't technically the combo either. It was the way you grab your two siege rhinos from a single Kitchen Finks

Thu, 2015-10-29 17:26
Guitarweeps
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Technically birthing pod was used to grab your combo pieces or to make the good stuff versions extremely consistent. So they did ban the enabler. The combo is Meliria, persist, and sac outlet.

Check out my updated set hub.

Thu, 2015-10-29 17:34
ThisisSakon
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Idk. I hadn't really played the deck sine it's standard phase. All I know is they banned birthing pod, people got mad, and the deck fell apart.

Thu, 2015-10-29 17:55
WindyDelcarlo
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I wouldn't say it fell apart what is now called Abzan is that deck. And the melira combo is still being played in what I'm pretty sure people were calling Podless Pod.

Thu, 2015-10-29 18:02
ThisisSakon
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Well ok I mean fell apart as in its not longer consistently in the top 8 of modern tournaments.

... Or maybe it is. Like I said, I don't really have eperience with it.

Thu, 2015-10-29 18:37
Decembra
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Banning the enablers is a better alternative for sure. I'd still ban a combo piece if it was efficient in other categories like WotC did with Punishing Fire. Efficient creature and planeswalker removal, combos with a land (Grove of the Burnwillows), win-con, instant speed, two-card combo, protected from discard strategies and counterspells.

In a nutshell, not banning the combo piece allows things like Spellskite to exist. I ******* hate Spellskite.

Ah and actually WotC does ban combo pieces. Dark Depths is the prime example.

Thu, 2015-10-29 18:11
Guitarweeps
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I think Pod became Collected Company builds.

Check out my updated set hub.

Thu, 2015-10-29 19:58
marioware2
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Yo, I like Spellskite!

Let's not go overboard banning stuff until we know what really needs to be banned. If you think it's overpowered, play it. Break it. Show us that it should be banned, and we'll ban it! But we can't just ban things on a hunch.

Thu, 2015-10-29 20:11
Decembra
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Yeah but how's that going to go down?
"Hey, let's playtest your deck so I can learn what cards to name in order to beat you when GP Athens starts."
*reluctant* "Sure I guess."
*interval* "Well... you're winning consistently now. How do I adapt to this?"
"Reconstruct your deck to play other cards that also have names but as a whole aren't as vulnerable to Cabal Therapy, then we'll test again."

Format looks like Legacy.

Thu, 2015-10-29 20:13
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Mind Snap is definitely the fair version of Cabal Therapy this format needs.

It's the Flashback on Hathrik's Conditioning that makes it so good, and what makes it so playable-- mill it out with some Narcomoebas and you get to empty your opponent's hand before you combo out.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Thu, 2015-10-29 20:15
WindyDelcarlo
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Flashback is very good against hand attack
My 4 color dredge with blue deck is the only deck I've seen the cabal therapy in.

Thu, 2015-10-29 20:16
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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PS: You know, we can errata these cards really really easily if that makes them fairer.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Thu, 2015-10-29 20:17
WindyDelcarlo
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I try not to errata often because then you have to remember the errata there's already problems remembering that Volaria isn't legal

Thu, 2015-10-29 20:22
ThisisSakon
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Considering most of us will be able to physically change the card, remembering an erreta might not be as difficult

Thu, 2015-10-29 20:22
jacqui-pup
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(PS: I'm so happy no one discovered Breeder of the Depths, lol... You thought Narcomoeba was bad?)

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Thu, 2015-10-29 20:24
WindyDelcarlo
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I'm okay updating cards, yeah

Thu, 2015-10-29 20:32
ThisisSakon
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Well, jacqui-pup, I haven't discovered it yet because I don't even have the lackey plugin or anything

Sat, 2015-10-31 18:57
justnobody
Card of the Year 2015
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Regardless of the century, plane, or species, aspiring deckbuilders never fail to invent mono-red aggro.

Red Deck Wins
Land:
20x Mountain

Creature:
4x Maniacal Scourge
4x Loot Runner
4x Goblin Guide

Noncreature Spells:
4x Volcanic Flare
4x Soulfire
2x Flaming Insanity
4x Enthusiasm for Slaughter
4x Wild Flames
3x Forked Pillar
4x Flameball
3x Flames of the Thu'um

Met the devil of card design and sacrificed my creativity for unparalleled templating skill.

Spoiler:

Sat, 2015-10-31 20:38
ThisisSakon
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Quality quote, tenouttaten

On a side note, someone reprinted goblin guide?

Sat, 2015-10-31 20:52
aquaumisa
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Also, if you are looking for sets to include, why not look at Tales of Aresia and Rewriting Aresia?

Step: zero to one

Blue/black mana symbol <3 Blue/black mana symbol

Self professed Love Live fan.

Dive into the Planear Ocean and explore whole new worlds!

Sat, 2015-10-31 21:09
WindyDelcarlo
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Do you by any chance have a link?

Sat, 2015-10-31 21:51
aquaumisa
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Step: zero to one

Blue/black mana symbol <3 Blue/black mana symbol

Self professed Love Live fan.

Dive into the Planear Ocean and explore whole new worlds!

Sat, 2015-10-31 21:54
WindyDelcarlo
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This will be literally the biggest update to the plugin, I think

Sat, 2015-10-31 21:57
ThisisSakon
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If you need Xoltan pt2 early I can send you the set file now. That.... That would ruin the surprise of spoilers for you, but it would probably help you if you had the full set wouldn't it?

Sat, 2015-10-31 22:22
WindyDelcarlo
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Well, depends on when you plan on fully releasing it. If you want to finish releasing it after MTI, I don't need it right now because the next update is coming out alongside MTI

Sat, 2015-10-31 22:31
ThisisSakon
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MTI... ? Mercadian Tides? I mean, yeah, Xoltan is 100% done. I could literally upload the set file today, since no one seems to be interested in spoilers Stick out your tongue

Sat, 2015-10-31 22:41
WindyDelcarlo
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I'm still watching

Sat, 2015-10-31 22:46
ThisisSakon
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Sat, 2015-10-31 23:05
justnobody
Card of the Year 2015
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Yup, Goblin Guide was reprinted in Struggles of Iscathia.

We should see how GP Athens goes, then make bans and release new sets into the format.

Met the devil of card design and sacrificed my creativity for unparalleled templating skill.

Spoiler:

Sat, 2015-10-31 23:08
ThisisSakon
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Cool beans! I definitely don't think sets are getting added for a while. At least until the GP is done

Sat, 2015-10-31 23:17
WindyDelcarlo
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Well, I'm essentially updating whenever MTI comes out. Whether that's in the middle of the GP or not matters very little to me

Sun, 2015-11-01 00:04
ThisisSakon
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The first tournament put together using the MSE Modern cards.

...

I didn't make top 8 A sad &#039;frowny&#039;

Sun, 2015-11-01 01:54
ThisisSakon
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Hello deck engine

Sun, 2015-11-01 22:34
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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@justnobody: I think it's cute that you're running creatures that aren't Maniacal Scourge. Dude's able to pull off turn 2 wins if you get lucky.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Sun, 2015-11-01 22:38
WindyDelcarlo
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You have to actually land him though. I faced JN's mono-red list and it's super-consistent. I'm struggling to find a way to not lose

Sun, 2015-11-01 22:58
justnobody
Card of the Year 2015
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I mean, if I could run 12 Maniacal Scourges, I would. But barring that, 2-power hasty one-drops will have to do.

Yeah, Scourge can win t2 fairly easily. It's probably going to get banned after this tourney.

Met the devil of card design and sacrificed my creativity for unparalleled templating skill.

Spoiler:

Sun, 2015-11-01 23:34
Guitarweeps
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I am running a totally fair dragon deck. Let's see if I can ever cast one....

Check out my updated set hub.

Sun, 2015-11-01 23:39
WindyDelcarlo
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By definition I'm running a "fair" deck No combos or anything

Sun, 2015-11-01 23:42
Liz the Goddess
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Technically I am too. No combos, just strong cards and creatures.

*cough*.

I like bears.

Sun, 2015-11-01 23:56
Guitarweeps
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Of course there is a certain dragon that can be cast from the grave and allows your to be too...whether he is on the field or in the grave lol

Check out my updated set hub.

Mon, 2015-11-02 00:06
WindyDelcarlo
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You will always get to cast your dragon spells against me. Whether they resolve and don't get ostracized depends on how I feel

As it turns out, blue control has a massively important draw spell for 6 mana, since for those decks it's often at least "6 mana, draw 7". Study History wasn't designed for control

Mon, 2015-11-02 00:06
ThisisSakon
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I may or may not be brewing things with Xoltan. The question of fair will come later. What can I say, I'm partial to things I've designed. Stick out your tongue

Mon, 2015-11-02 00:29
Guitarweeps
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I was to busy to brew so I just made dragons haha.

Check out my updated set hub.

Mon, 2015-11-02 00:33
WindyDelcarlo
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I tried 4-color dredge with Blue. It's not consistent and the mana base is terrifying

Mon, 2015-11-02 00:40
ThisisSakon
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Is the actual dredge mechanic reprinted?