MSE Modern and LackeyCCG Discussion [Download in Original Post]

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Sun, 2015-10-25 17:54
Neottolemo
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I'm on the server now A happy smile

Sun, 2015-10-25 18:32
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Okay, I'm online now if anyone wants to play me...

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Sun, 2015-10-25 20:13
Liz the Goddess
Moderator
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Everyone's always playing when I'm at work Stick out your tongue why am I always the only guy to be on at, like, one in the morning?

I like bears.

Sun, 2015-10-25 20:15
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Actually I'm playing some sealed with Umisa right now...

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Sun, 2015-10-25 20:16
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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I just got back from camp, so I'm getting myself caught up

Sun, 2015-10-25 20:19
Che Fantasia
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I will show you who the true boss at not knowing how cards work is!
And that is me.
Uhm...
Now it just feels like I'm insulting myself, and that just looks silly.
Wait, do I look silly?
I should stop speaking to myself. Meh.

Sun, 2015-10-25 21:34
Yoshi
Community Award
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@Wind, jacqui, anyone qualified to answer: Are there prerequisites for making a set MSE Modern legal?

December 2017 - R32 - "We are more than just rank and file..."
February 2018 - DDH - "Remember that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer."

I stand with the specimen.

Sun, 2015-10-25 21:45
WindyDelcarlo
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I've just been adding any new sets I find to it. Essentially, Volaria was a long time ago (I first spoiled it almost two years ago now!) and the cards in the block were overall powerful enough that I'd either need to re-release the set or ban half the cards, so I just cut the entire block

Also, probably obvious, but sets that are intended to be played in a different manner (Duel Decks, sets designed for special formats, etc.) can be added to the plugin but won't be MSE Modern legal.

Sun, 2015-10-25 22:02
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Eventually we'll need to start looking through sets and making sure there aren't duplicate names or anything. Like the two Reforges and stuff.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Sun, 2015-10-25 22:10
WindyDelcarlo
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I saw another one, but I think that was it. I don't remember what the name was

Sun, 2015-10-25 22:16
Yoshi
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I'm presuming TAP (that planechase set) won't be legal then, right?

December 2017 - R32 - "We are more than just rank and file..."
February 2018 - DDH - "Remember that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer."

I stand with the specimen.

Sun, 2015-10-25 22:18
WindyDelcarlo
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I don't believe so, sorry. If we ever end up working on an MSE Legacy (which I personally probably won't be working on majorly as a format, at least for a little while ) then there you go, though

Sun, 2015-10-25 22:31
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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I'm not sure we can actually work Plane cards in Lackey, though Wind can correct me if I'm wrong here.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Sun, 2015-10-25 22:33
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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I can try Since Lackey has them in the normal Magic plugin, surely there's a way to do it.

Sun, 2015-10-25 23:50
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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UPDATE: I just had this actual game actually happen.

T1: Mountain, Maniacal Scourge.
T2: Mountain, Electrocution. Marzen at 17. Attack. Marzen at 13.
T3: Mountain, Enthusiasm for Slaughter, Constant Static to the face. Marzen at 9. Attack with the Scourge. Marzen at -1.

Believe it or not, you can actually win with this deck turn two:

T1: Mountain, Maniacal Scourge.
T2: Mountain, Any 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol "add Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol to your mana pool" spell, Enthusiasm for Slaughter, Skullcrush; you've dealt eight to your opponent's face and now have a 9/1, which you attack with for eighteen damage.

In conclusion, Enthusiasm for Slaughter is literally insane and should not cost Red mana symbol

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Mon, 2015-10-26 00:50
WindyDelcarlo
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Of note, Electrocution isn't legal in MSE Modern

Mon, 2015-10-26 01:05
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Oh.

We really should make VEB Redux or something...

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Mon, 2015-10-26 03:40
WindyDelcarlo
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It's not supposed to be the Volaria Block is being cut once I update

Mon, 2015-10-26 16:42
marioware2
Head Administrator
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I won a game last night with Splinter Twin combo. It was fantastic. I'll post a decklist later tonight. Big smile

Mon, 2015-10-26 16:52
justnobody
Card of the Year 2015
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Woah. I might have to get in on this. Time to start brewing.

Met the devil of card design and sacrificed my creativity for unparalleled templating skill.

Spoiler:

Mon, 2015-10-26 21:20
Decembra
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@GLACIA: I think Guardian of the Glacial Hunt's trigger condition is meant to read "Whenever one or more creatures attack you or a planeswalker you control," Otherwise it's pretty disgusting. If it feels lackluster after that, making it a 3/4 should solidify it.

EDIT: How cool is this? Go check out "Val Pendant" from MSR - that's Marjum, one of our big five planeswalkers! It's so fitting. Cool.

Mon, 2015-10-26 22:42
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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Who are the big five planeswalkers?

Mon, 2015-10-26 23:02
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Heping, Selan, Karasu, Royn, Marjum.

And I know, there's a ton of repeat art in these sets, haha.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Mon, 2015-10-26 23:06
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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I don't know these planeswalkers I feel so out of the loop

Tue, 2015-10-27 00:36
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
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Yeah not at all worried about the repeat art or names honestly. I am not trudging through all the sets to check before naming or arting.

Check out my updated set hub.

Tue, 2015-10-27 00:50
Liz the Goddess
Moderator
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Yeah I'd say it's not the biggest worry. There's only so much art/names we can use Stick out your tongue And spreading that even thinner is constricting as hell.

I like bears.

Tue, 2015-10-27 00:51
Cajun
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Well you can check Lackey for the names that are in already, but yea is largely a pain and mostly only aesthetic.

Cajun's Explorations
Planeswalker Template Overhaul
fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Tue, 2015-10-27 03:22
monger
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Sunken Runestone might need a ban if any other insta-mill combos/cards crop up, but I haven't noticed any so far.

Also scanning for a general look at a midrange/goodstuff build, and I'm currently pegging Black mana symbol as the strongest color based on black PtE, Cabal Therapy, and possibly Dark Confidant.

Tue, 2015-10-27 03:26
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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I'm looking at other hand disruption. Disrupt Memory and Distress both cost two mana, so maybe they're too slow? I never draw Disrupt Memory enough to turn on Deja Vu because I die so fast

Tue, 2015-10-27 04:06
marioware2
Head Administrator
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So here's the list for MSE Modern Splinter Twin, a.k.a. "Endless Fieldmages":

Endless Fieldmages

THE COMBO

4x Rabian Fieldmage
1/1 for 2 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol that makes Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol when it ETB.

4x Spark Braids
Enchantment for 1 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol that gives you Red mana symbol whenever you cast a red spell.

4x Lerinan Stormcaster
2/1 for 1 mana symbolRed mana symbol that gives you a mana of any color when you cast an instant or sorcery spell.

4x Endless Reflections
Sorcery for 1 mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol that buybacks for 2 mana symbolRed mana symbol and makes a token of a creature you control (with haste).


The combo involves having two in any combination of Lerinan Stormcasters and/or Spark Braids, as well as access to six mana. When you have assembled those, cast a Rabian Fieldmage, adding Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol to your mana pool. Pay two more to cast Endless Reflections with buyback, netting Red mana symbolRed mana symbol from your Stormcasters and/or Braids. Make a token of Fieldmage, get Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol, giving you Red mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbolRed mana symbol. Lather, rinse, repeat.

THE TEMPO

4x Carnal Lightning
Instant for Red mana symbol that bolts a creature.

2x Flameball
Sorcery for Red mana symbol that bolts a creature or player, flashing back for 3 mana symbolRed mana symbol.

4x Repress
Instant for 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol that counters a spell unless its controller pays 2 mana symbol, or just plain old counters that spell if you kick it for Blue mana symbol.

2x Shielding Blast
Functional reprint of Dismiss.

1x Negate
Negate.


These cards are used to control the board early until you assemble your combo, as well as protecting your combo pieces while you wait to put the rest of them together. Nothing fancy -- just good old fashioned Blue/red mana symbol counterburn.

GETTING THERE

4x Cephalid Trickery
Instant for Blue mana symbol that looks at the top three cards, puts one into hand and mills the rest.

4x Blessed Foresight
Sorcery for Blue mana symbol that looks at top and bottom cards of library, puts one into hand, and puts the other on top or on bottom.


This is how you find your combo without Demonic Tutor. It's no Ponder, but it'll do in a pinch!

CASTING SPELLS

4x Scalding Tarn
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Spires of Tvornica
4x Steaming Ocean
4x Island
3x Mountain


Typical land setup for a Blue/red mana symbol deck in this format. Nothing outside the ordinary here.

And that's the deck! Go infinite, guys!

Tue, 2015-10-27 04:21
ThisisSakon
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So is this MSE + Modern legal or is it MSE sets only?

Tue, 2015-10-27 04:23
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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MSE Modern is a modern-like format constructed from sets on the forums. The front page shows sets that are legal in MSE Modern as of the last Lackey update (quite a few are being added. Vis, Xoltan, Mercadian Tides, and Dabriohm)

Tue, 2015-10-27 04:32
ThisisSakon
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If you're adding Xoltan, Prophesize might need to be looked at. It's similar to ponder/preordain in power level.


In fact, looking at it, it's exactly preordain. idk what I was thinking...

Tue, 2015-10-27 04:32
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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That probably will be looked at I'm also adding Opt when I release my next set, but that'll be an update after MTI. There's a lack of good Blue mana symbol cantrips

Tue, 2015-10-27 20:22
Decembra
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Not sure if this is intended, but Time Hop's Bloodbond March is not the same as the original Bloodbond March.

Tue, 2015-10-27 21:32
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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Time Hop's wording is intentionally pretty archaic. Unless you mean it literally doesn't function the same at all?

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Tue, 2015-10-27 21:42
Decembra
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Doesn't function the same at all.

Tue, 2015-10-27 22:38
Cajun
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Yea, Time Hop's gives you your same-name critters back when one dies, Ravnica's brings everyone's same-name critter back when one is cast.

Cajun's Explorations
Planeswalker Template Overhaul
fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Wed, 2015-10-28 01:44
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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I've fixed that up; thanks for pointing that out. Soon I'll upload a fixed set file, along with some new art and the recosted Cryptify. (PS: If y'all have ever wanted to cast Counterspell for 1 mana symbolBlue mana symbol, GP Athens is your last chance!)

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Wed, 2015-10-28 02:00
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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Sadly, there have been times when it doesn't cut it

Wed, 2015-10-28 06:03
WindyDelcarlo
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I'm sure I should bring this up. I'm actually legit worried about Arknia's gold. Cards like Archdemon of Avarice and Guardian of the Coffers, for example, and since gold is found on most cards in Arknia (I think the count I had was 157 out of 249 in just the set Arknia, not the block), the value is literally always going to happen.

It might just be me, but I've found myself sitting across from gold-based decks and, no matter what I'm playing, thinking "there's actual nothing I can do". A lot of the cards are undercosted because they make gold (Extortion, for example, is essentially 1 mana symbolBlack mana symbol for mind rot).

Note, I'm not suggesting banning the whole set. I'd love to do not that if possible, as I'm sure others are, so I'm looking into testing this more. So I'd love to hear what you think about the situation, if you think something needs to be done or if we should wait until after GP Athens or whatever. I just figured I should express my concern.

Wed, 2015-10-28 06:02
Liz the Goddess
Moderator
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I'm usually the guy playing the gold decks. I love the feel of playing them. However, so far, they've all seemed very strong. I'm not too big on the idea of just slicing up an entire set (we shall call it "Going Urza's Block on it"), so I'm building a bunch of different decks using the Gold mechanic to check for power levels. So far, black actually seems more powerful than mono blue pirates. Banning Marauder did nerf it, but only by a bit, and black doesn't have any banned cards yet but whoo boy. I feel very sad saying this, but if this set were allowed to live in any format, it would dominate that format and you'd see gold every single game.

I like bears.

Wed, 2015-10-28 11:19
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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I think it's at least partially because there isn't any cheap mass artifact removal in the format.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Wed, 2015-10-28 14:11
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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There is that one spell that destroys all non-creature artifacts, but mainly the problem is how easy it is to get gold. You would be playing Highway Robbery just as a disperse but it also gives you a gold token. Extortion is just a mind rot, which you could play, and it also gives you a gold token. Then there's that one mass removal spell that kills X things (easy to get with gold) and also makes X gold. I think Gold wasn't valued as highly as it should have been in design.

Wed, 2015-10-28 14:35
Guitarweeps
Friendly MSE Designer
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So you are saying it had high inflation?

Check out my updated set hub.

Wed, 2015-10-28 22:55
ThisisSakon
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Wow, Guitar, I feel dirty reading that. Excellent job Big smile

Thu, 2015-10-29 01:47
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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So here's the deal, I've updated the list of lands with a WIP banlist.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FqdX7ipsLgtds4FNcvJzHZy12Awj7qGDktttXVdaPPo/edit?pli=1#gid=0

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Thu, 2015-10-29 14:06
WindyDelcarlo
Administrator - MSE Add-On Award
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It's been farewell for a little while The entire block was removed quite some time ago

Thu, 2015-10-29 14:38
Decembra
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Modern ban list suggestions:
Hathrik's Conditioning - While it could whiff and requires greater knowledge to be useful, it has a cutthroat casting cost, a comfortable Flashback cost, and high value 2-for-1 potential.

Thu, 2015-10-29 14:48
Cajun
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It is strictly Cabal Therapy.

Cajun's Explorations
Planeswalker Template Overhaul
fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff