MSE Modern and LackeyCCG Discussion [Download in Original Post]

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Fri, 2015-10-09 03:49
WindyDelcarlo
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As you might know, I've been working alongside Jacqui-pup to develop an actual format out of the cards that we've made on the forums, labeling it MSE Modern. I have a Lackey plugin running that has access to all the cards from a large number of sets (If there are any sets that aren't part of the plug-in you'd like to see, be sure to let me know)

Mainly what I'm trying to do right now is see if there's any interest in pulling together a tournament for this format. I don't have the slightest clue how it'd work, but I want to see if anyone is interested in this before moving on.

http://mse-modern.com/msem2/updatelist.txt
^ Plug this URL in the "Auto-Update URL" box under the "Plugins" tab. It should update everything. In the same way, if your plugin is out of date (for example, you enter a game and your plugins don't match) this should update the plugin.

Sets Legal in MSE Modern wrote:
  • Tides of War
  • Goliaths of Nangjiao
  • Surging Tide
  • Spark of Revolution
  • Pyramids of Atuum
  • Ophorio
  • Mious
  • Khaliz-Doran
  • Aftermath
  • Imperial Legacies
  • Core Set K2015
  • A Tourney at Whiterun
  • Zero
  • The Golden Era
  • Path of Shadows
  • Xoltan Premodern
  • Kaleidoscope

Fri, 2015-10-09 14:42
DGoldDragon28

This seems like a cool idea!

Fri, 2015-10-09 16:16
marioware2
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I bet the land situation is gonna be insane. A happy smile

Out of curiosity, what card has had to be banned so far? Also, I'm in full support of this idea, but I definitely don't have the time to participate right now -- I'll be lurking and watching carefully, though. I'm excited to see what kinds of decks get put together. Any ideas thus far what the strongest would be?

Fri, 2015-10-09 16:54
WindyDelcarlo
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The card we were looking at was Symphony of Frost and Flame because the fetchable Mashara land broke it so much in Storm and Miraculous Epiphany.
The mana fixing is a really interesting thing, especially since its the birth of a format. Who knows what the best decks are?

Fri, 2015-10-09 17:19
marioware2
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What set is that from? (slash what does it do?)

Fri, 2015-10-09 17:30
jacqui-pup
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There are enemy fetches, and if Ashura gets added into the format we'll have a full set of ETB tapped shocklands. So it's like Modern pre-Khans manawise.

I've had fun with a white weenie deck; Wind's had fun with control. I'm a little worried about burn in terms of "critical mass of this type of card" decks, but I don't think there are many one mana bolts yet. Time Hop offers a scary option in the duo of West Takheim University and Magespite Bolt, IMO; those two plus enough Searing Spear variants could kick ass.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Fri, 2015-10-09 17:55
WindyDelcarlo
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Symphony is from Winds of Change that rituals for Blue mana symbolRed mana symbol. It makes Blue mana symbol for each mountain you control and Red mana symbol for each island, meaning the Island Mountain counts makes two mana by itself. Since fetches are also in Mashara, they get fetched out

Fri, 2015-10-09 17:56
jacqui-pup
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I'm gonna make a burn deck and see how that works, hold up

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Fri, 2015-10-09 18:13
jacqui-pup
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So there isn't a critical mass, but

Sanity of the Dissident will basically win on resolution. It's a three mana common. What?? That plus Goblin Council is infinite mana + damage, for starters

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Fri, 2015-10-09 18:18
WindyDelcarlo
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What does Sanity of the Dissident do again? (I swear that's from Volaria, which means its not a problem in this format, and surely it's not worse than Splinter Twin )

Fri, 2015-10-09 18:21
marioware2
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Can I suggest that when discussing cards here you put what they do in spoilers? I'd love to follow the conversation but I don't have access to the set files atm, nor do I know what sets the cards are even from!

Fri, 2015-10-09 18:26
jacqui-pup
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Whenever you discard a card this turn, return it to your hand and it deals damage equal to its CMC to target creature/player.

You need a "whenever a source you don't control" or something

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Fri, 2015-10-09 18:28
WindyDelcarlo
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Goblin council discards to make Red mana symbolRed mana symbol for creatures. Can't remember what sanity does. Also at school right now, but I think it's from VEB block

Fri, 2015-10-09 18:37
Cajun
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"Whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card..."

Turns off other similar abuses.

Cajun's Explorations
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I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Fri, 2015-10-09 19:04
WindyDelcarlo
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That was Repel the darkness, right? That would've been the counter-card to Weaken

Fri, 2015-10-09 19:51
Guitarweeps
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I would love to participate although this many sets is overwhelming so I'll probably just us a few. Don't know if I'll be able to use Zlackey just cause of time and meeting up. Although if you do a league then you really just need you and your opponent to meet up at some point.

If this is MSE modern maybe the community design project can be MSE standard. Starting with Impridonment of the Eldrazi, Praesti, and Ashura.

Check out my updated set hub.

Fri, 2015-10-09 20:00
WindyDelcarlo
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That seems like a fair idea. There's a lot of small standard formats, such as Jacqui's, Korakhos's, and my own. And yeah, I imagine that the people around during the birth of modern felt similarly. I find myself constantly relying on Linela interactions I know.
If you have ideas on how to run this, I'd certainly love to hear them. Ive been really silent about this idea due to lack of ideas to pitch

Fri, 2015-10-09 20:10
jacqui-pup
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Was Praesti ever finished and put in a set file somewhere?

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Fri, 2015-10-09 20:15
Guitarweeps
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We could run a round a week that way whoever is paired can agree on a time to meet up. Then you don't need to work like 8 people schedules. Worst case if they can't they can just play on the forums.

I still need to download lackey...

Check out my updated set hub.

Fri, 2015-10-09 20:17
Guitarweeps
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Jacque, Praesti is currently in development. It fizzled for awhile but got back on track. Unfortunately it's "release" will be pretty close to Ashura.

Check out my updated set hub.

Fri, 2015-10-09 20:20
WindyDelcarlo
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I'd wait to download the plugin. Its getting updated once Mercadian Tides is released

Fri, 2015-10-09 20:23
Guitarweeps
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Ok

I think an ally deck might be in order A happy smile

Check out my updated set hub.

Fri, 2015-10-09 20:25
WindyDelcarlo
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I like the Linela-based Equipment decks quite a bit

Fri, 2015-10-09 20:26
jacqui-pup
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Hey Wind, you might want to look at Study the Tradewinds from Mashara... I think you'll be casting quite a few of them.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Fri, 2015-10-09 20:41
Guitarweeps
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Someone needs to make s goblin deck with the legend from Eldrazi!

Check out my updated set hub.

Fri, 2015-10-09 20:49
jacqui-pup
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OH MY GOD GLEBGAL. YES. SOMEONE NEEDS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

(Sorta upset there isn't goblin tribal in Ashura now.)

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Fri, 2015-10-09 22:59
Decembra
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Even if the tournament doesn't happen, I definitely want to play our custom sets. I'm busy downloading the plugin now A happy smile

Fri, 2015-10-09 23:10
jacqui-pup
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I'm online now if you'd like to play someone, Decembra

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Fri, 2015-10-09 23:13
Decembra
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I'd have to look through 5000+ cards and build a deck first, but I'll be online soon

Sat, 2015-10-10 01:41
jacqui-pup
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Lerinan Stormcaster + Study the Tradewinds + Storm Entity. Can you say "STORM!?!?"

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Sat, 2015-10-10 05:41
WindyDelcarlo
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I'm glad I managed to get more attention drawn to this I tried before on that thread with the plug-in and you can see where that went.

Sat, 2015-10-10 10:08
Decembra
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I spotted something Stick out your tongue There are two Reforges that do more or less the same thing for different mana costs.

Sat, 2015-10-10 10:17
Guitarweeps
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What sets?

Check out my updated set hub.

Sat, 2015-10-10 10:47
Decembra
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DBN and MSR... Dragonborn and Realms of Mashara?

Reforge 1 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Sorcery Uncommon DBN
Return target equipment card from your graveyard to the battlefield. When that equipment enters the battlefield, you may attach it to target creature you control.

----------------

Reforge 3 mana symbolWhite mana symbol
Sorcery Uncommon MSR
Return target equipment card from your graveyard to the battlefield, then attach it to target creature you control if able.
"Broken? Hah. Not with a little dwarven magic, it ain't."

Sat, 2015-10-10 15:33
jacqui-pup
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Yep.

Also, yikes!

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Sat, 2015-10-10 16:13
WindyDelcarlo
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Not sure how to abuse that. Is there any ways to bin Equipment?

Sat, 2015-10-10 16:29
Decembra
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@Wind: T1 Greenheart Druid -> T2 Voidreave, Mind's End. Swing. Game over, probably. Ruinous Cleaver or Titanslicer Cleaver are also bordering on being degenerate, but Voidreave would be the worst offender. I think the Reforge from MSR is more appropriate in terms of balance for Modern, perhaps even with Voidreave. Maybe we could use the other for Legacy and just restrict Voidreave.

PS. There might be other ways, but Greenheart looks like a Dredge staple to me.

Sat, 2015-10-10 16:31
WindyDelcarlo
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One of the awkward things is that you have to run basics unless you can use the cards in your graveyard before drawing your next turn. There's nothing like Dread Return in this format, right?

Sat, 2015-10-10 16:39
Decembra
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Running one basic plains to allow for a turn 2 win is something a power-hungry player would do any day. No but there's a functional Cabal Therapy and an actual Narcomoeba.

Sat, 2015-10-10 16:41
WindyDelcarlo
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Is Greenheart Druid a card that should probably hide itself on the banlist?

Sat, 2015-10-10 16:50
Decembra
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I'm leaning towards it being broken, even though I have it in my sights for my deck. If it found any land it might not be as broken.

Sat, 2015-10-10 17:13
WindyDelcarlo
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I feel like I should write a quick land-cycle primer There's a lot of them

Sat, 2015-10-10 17:41
WindyDelcarlo
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So, if you've ever started to get into Modern without someone helping you build a deck (My friend has done this exact thing) you can see that there's a ton of lands to choose from. Fetches, pain lands, scrylands, shocks, guildgates, checklands, snow duals, and now the tangos. How the heck do you know what to choose? Occasionally, you don't even know all the options (I guarantee I've missed a modern-legal cycle ). And you know what? They're super important! How many times have you gone through a game thinking "Where is all my black mana?" or "I can stop drawing Mountains now, deck, I need the other color!"
What I've done is gone through the entire list of MSE Modern legal sets and sorted them into cycles, giving each of them a name (that probably isn't the greatest) for the purpose of clarity. That way, you can just scroll through the list and decide "Huh, I want fetches and fetchable duals, let's go find MSR" (by the way, Lackey's filters on the left side under the card image is really nice for this)

  • Marketplaces (ARK): Arknia mono-colored lands that can tap to make a Gold token.
  • Dragonlands (DBN): Dragonborn mono-colored lands that enter tapped and can tap for a cheap effect.
  • Guard lands (DGD): Dawnguard mono-colored lands that enter tapped and can tap for an effect.
  • Panoramas (FoR): Lands from Fragments of Rath that can fetch out one of the wedge's basics.
  • Trilands (FoR): Tri-lands from Fragments of Rath that enter tapped and tap for a wedge's colors.
  • Control lands (Hop): Ally-colored lands from Time Hop that enter tapped unless Long game is active.
  • Count lands (IotE): Mono-colored lands from Imprisonment of the Eldrazi that count the number of the appropriate basic land for an effect.
  • Rift lands (IotE): Mono-colored Imprisonment of the Eldrazi lands that can bounce themselves to your hand for an effect.
  • Man lands (IotE): Enemy-color lands from Imprisonment of the Eldrazi that can become creature temporarily.
  • Deja Vu lands (LPP/TD): Full cycle of lands from the Linela block that untap themselves when they enter if someone has another copy on the battlefield or in a graveyard.
  • Pool lands (Lume): Lumehaven ally colored duals that make both colors of mana if there is at least 6 mana floating in your mana pool.
  • Fetch lands (MSR): Realms of Mashara enemy fetches that can sacrifice themselves to tutor one of their basic land types to the battlefield.
  • Basic Duals (MSR): Realms of Mashara enemy duals that enter tapped but have basic land types.
  • Tides lands (MTI): As-of-yet unrevealed lands from Mercadian Tides
  • Charred lands (SCE): Scorched Earth duals that tap for M Mana for MTG Extra or Red mana symbol if you control a Mountain.
  • Level Lands (SKM): Skyrim duals that level up to more colors of mana with each land drop. Level 1-2 taps for one color, and 3+ taps for an ally color.
  • Maze lands (SoI/WoC): Full cycle of Struggles of Iscathia duals that can only tap for a color if you already have a basic of that color on the battlefield. Nimbus Maze, for example.
  • Mineral lands (SoI): Struggles of Iscathia mono-colored lands that make massive mono-colored creatures cheaper.
  • Ravaged lands (WoC): Winds of Change mono-colored lands with basic land types that can filter mana into any color.
Sat, 2015-10-10 18:17
Cajun
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-I guarantee I've missed a modern-legal cycle
Yup, Scars fastlands and the Alara/Khans tri-lands.

Can we get links to these forum threads/set files? I've only seen a few of these sets around and I prefer flipping through MSE than Lackey.

Cajun's Explorations
Planeswalker Template Overhaul
fluffyDeathbringer wrote:
I dunno, Cajun has a habit of doing Dubiously Working new rules stuff

Sat, 2015-10-10 18:53
Decembra
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@Cajun: Alara and Khans are official MTG sets lol, those land cycles wouldn't necessarily be in MSE Modern.

Sat, 2015-10-10 19:16
WindyDelcarlo
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Cajun took what I said as I intended: I missed modern-legal cycles. I guarantee I did NOT miss an MSE modern cycle because I literally scrolled through the nonbasic lands and typed them in

Sat, 2015-10-10 20:16
Neottolemo
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I'd be interested in this, but might not be able to use the Lackey thing with many people because timezones. Will look into making a deck or something tomorrow, though.

Sat, 2015-10-10 20:24
WindyDelcarlo
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Which time zone are you in and about what times are you available?

Sat, 2015-10-10 20:31
monger
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Whoa, this looks fun.

From a skim, possible archetypes that could be supported
-Control (Izzet/Azorious/Jeskai)
-Midrange
-White Weenie (Young Warmaster basically makes that deck)
-5-color Goodstuff
-Tokens?
-...caw-blade? (hawk/lurking/swords) (Nissa, Joraga's Bloom?)
-Lesser Evil Gifts
-Reform Toolbox (merge with gifts?)
-Equipment
-Ramp
-RDW (that lurking lizard?)
-something secret that will be awesome or stupid

Ostracism is going to be great by the way. Leaking Memories could be strong as well.

Sat, 2015-10-10 20:37
jacqui-pup
Featured Set Editor - Best Set of 2015 - Community Award
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I should totally make a Google doc with the lands in it...

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater

Sat, 2015-10-10 21:00
jacqui-pup
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FqdX7ipsLgtds4FNcvJzHZy12Awj7qGDktttXVdaPPo/edit?usp=sharing

Okay, that's there. Wind, give me your email pl0x? So you can edit this too.

[center]"It's exciting to create something that demonstrates how clever you are, that you pushed in a direction that players didn't anticipate. The problem is that the point of game design isn't to be clever, it's to create a great game." --Mark Rosewater